Ethics, (was Hex 54, etc.)

[rinda]

Friends,

I have a real question, and along the way I'm wondering if we can approach part of this discussion constructively...

If one consults Yi in conjunction with one's profession (or in one's social/recreational sphere) what do you see as the appropriate limits of the use of the information/contact ?

What things should one consider?

Do you think it's acceptable to use it as a kind of double-check of one's professional observations or planning without revealing that to "stakeholders"? What are the benefits and pitfalls of such use?

For those of you who do not use it directly in your professional life, how do you do it? Do you disclose that invariably or only when the affected people would be receptive to it?

Rinda

[cheiron]

A very good question.

I do not use it in my practice as my work like most clinical work is ?evidence? based.

That is that I have to have clear evidence for all of the decisions I take and as the basis of the work I do.

Having said we all have value and belief systems ? That is I have them, patients have them and organisations have them... The Yijing is part of my value system and it will affect and influence my thinking?

As for ethics ? a difficult one. I would suggest that if a practitioner were using it as a core practice method then yes they should disclose that.

My own practice approach is to encourage the patient to enter into a constructive open and equal alliance focussed on solving their problem. As part of that I encourage them to be challenging and questioning? to keep control of the process as far as possible? So naturally I tell them why I say what I say? So were I to even consider using the Yijing I would introduce it? but I don?t use it in that way.

I know of a number of people who if they ?get stuck? with the work they do they might use the Yijing (I believe Carl Jung did this)? but it would not form part of their core or even regular practice.

I don?t want to say a lot more on this as I keep my work and my interest in the Yijing fairly separate.

Interested to hear other views though.

--Kevin

[candid]

Hi Rinda, if you mean professional as being any profession and not limited to mental health type care, yes, I use it in my profession. Since I deal with people in a sales profession, Yi's insights help me to gain a balanced perspective.

One I'll receive frequently in this regard, for example, is 13. This reminds me that first and foremost, my intent needs to be focused on much more than my own personal loss or gain concerning a client/prospect or sale. Another common one is 45.5, which tells me to focus only on those prospects who, so to speak, voluntarily avail themselves.

I see no useful purpose in telling prospects/clients anything of my informational sources (Yi). This would be akin to saying, the lord told me you need to buy an xyz! ..chuckles

2.5 Wilhelm uses an applicable point concerning revealing the source of our influence or insight to the subject of our communication: ?A man's genuineness and refinement shouldn't reveal themselves directly; they should express themselves only indirectly as an effect from within.?

[cheiron]

Interesting Candid ? Research consistently shows that the treatment outcomes are more closely tied to whether the patient and therapist ?engage? or click with each other rather than the sort of method used? 2.5 eh?

Smiles

--Kevin

[hilary]

Thank you for the terrific question, Rinda! I suppose it leads to scenarios like - if you were taking a financial decision that affected other people, and a reading was a factor in that decision - and they'd probably have kittens if you told them this - would you tell them?

Pause for thought... yes, I would. But on a social level, when I ask Yi for advice on relationships, I often end up weaving the imagery into conversation without letting on where it comes from.

Candid, I like your examples. Do you mean 8,5 rather than 45,5, by any chance? If so, then this is a lesson I've had, too. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif Insights from Yi on what particular benefits people are looking for have also worked their way into some of the copy on this website before now.

[candid]

Hi Kev, yup, while selling air conditioning systems in the desert can't really be compared in nobility to mental health care, the person to person 'connection' is equally vital in either case. Its easy to tell when on the receiving end whether this comes from a contrived method to influence (ie: sales technique or bedside manners), or genuine compassion and empathy for the prospect/patient. In the idealistic sense, the customer really is a patient. At least that?s how I?ve always viewed and trained it.

Hilary, http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif, yes, I meant 8.5. Thanks for pointing it out.

[cheiron]

Chuckles Candid

Yes - I find most of these things very similar comes down to the things you list

I was astounded once, many years ago, about how much psychology went into sales.

Tell you what - a survey - Free psychotherapy or free air conditioning for those in the desert? - I would not stand a chance lol

Say noble to the staff at the end of a busy clinic - the only sound would be of jaws dropping - lol

(Sorry to be off topic)

Take care friend

--K

[candid]

Kevin, I agree, ethics isn't limited to any single vocation, and while free psychotherapy could certainly be useful here (more than you know!), tell that to a family sweating to death in mid July when the temp is soaring high into the three digits during the monsoons.

There are many retired older folks here, and often I just sit listening to an old widow talk on and on about her life. Often to them its the only chance they have to really talk to someone who attentively listens. During these times, making a sale is the last thing on my mind. The funny part is that this is most often the factor that earns their trust, and induces them to go with my company over the competition. BUT, if this were conscious enticement on my part it would easily be seen as such, and I?d undoubtedly lose the sale to the competitor?s bid. In such as case it would be better to make a simple pragmatic presentation and let the chips fall.

[gene]

Candid

I can really see the need for air conditioners where you are. The only question is, wouldn't everyone already have one?

Gene

[candid]

Hi Gene, nope, evaporative coolers are a much cheaper and a common older option, and they provide a great base for conversions. During mid summer the extreme heat draws up heavy moisture from the Mexican coast and we get monsoons. During those times evap coolers (a simple squirrel cage with pads moistened with water and a fan blowing over them) do absolutely nothing but raise the already high humidity. The big push these days is to greatly higher efficiency systems, and this is where my company (well, not mine but...) excels. With the newer technology, high efficiency central a/c systems are considerably less expensive than the older evap coolers to operate; something which was unheard of only a few years ago.

No more shop talk, I promise!