Qi crashes

[candid]

For years I have had periodic collapses of energy. Normally my energy is high and I run on only a few hours sleep a night. I?ve tried over the years to regulate my sleeping habits, and have managed by getting a night?s sleep in two ?shifts?, sleeping for 3 hours (longest I generally can sleep), getting up for an hour or two, then returning for another 1-3 hours sleep. Then after two or three months I hit a wall and nearly collapse with fatigue, rendering my body weak and listless for anywhere between two days and two weeks.

I?m presently in such a cycle. Yesterday I asked Yi if this is serious, and received 38. 1,4 to 4. This morning I again asked, ?what is the cause of this periodic extreme fatigue?? and received 22.

LiSe?s site defines 22 as Qi, life energy. I?ve searched Google for further understanding of Qi, but all I can find is that Qi = energy. This makes sense because it really is my energy that goes through this cycle, but I?ve not been able to find anything on what to do about it other than letting it run its course (38.1). Easy to say, but my work and other obligations require the energy which is lacking during these episodes.

Can anyone determine a possible solution to these energy crashes, based on these readings, please?

Thanks.

[sparhawk]

Hi Candid,

Sorry if I am saying the obvious but, have you searched using the term "Chi"?

On the practical side of things, have you tried taking Metalonin at night? There are other natural compounds, like Valerian Extract, that you can take to help you sleep. Perhaps you have already tried all these. Just in case... After I started to have problems staying asleep I began taking Melatonin every night and it really helped me.

I hope you feel better soon,

Luis

[pedro]

Candid, I have had similar phases, Im sure everyone has

There is a shift of energy (qi), related to many factors, some environmental, some dietetic, but most simply mental. Everything comes in waves, and as such energy cannot run high permanently. Yet it is the mind which governs the flow of qi, whether consciously or not

You can also find the "reason" in astrology, some transits are real discouradging, while others seem to burst you up with energy (sun and moon phases have a noticeable effect). It works to a great extent, but less and less as you realise it is your own choice to let them affect you

We need not succumb over the stars or whatever "influence" that seems to govern us, when we realise it is all mental

38 seems to show some conflict of thoughts within yourself, that is draining your stamina in its vain fight, and that seems reinforced by 64

So perhaps the best way to rise above it is both realising you are choosing to feel like that, and then reminding you that your energy, be it qi or whatever you want to call it, is nothing more than mind's expression

Change your mind and the energy will come back

[candid]

Hi Luis,

I've not tried it but this is the second time someone has suggested it. I hope this is an over-the-counter supplement that can be found at the local health store, as I don't do doctors or prescription medications anymore.

Typically, I do perfectly well on the 5-6 hours sleep I manage each night. Its only these periodic crashes which takes me out. And its not just feeling tired, but more like flu symptoms, that dizzy out of it feeling.

I thought on this more since I posted my request and realize that this pattern has been going on for most of my life. Its nothing new, but a bit more frequent than before. I?ve been to doctors for it before, years ago, who just tell me its likely a minor bug. They?ve never found anything seriously wrong.

I?ve always been a sprinter, energy wise, not a long distance runner. My energy is high, and then I just seem to collapse.

Thanks for your suggestion. I'll check into it.

[candid]

Hi Pedro,

I believe you are exactly right in what you?ve said (except I don?t understand where 64 came in?). It is in the mind. It has to be because I?ve chased the causes of these symptoms before, and have always come to the same conclusion. (So has Yi.) Possibly this is where 4 came from.

Again, I believe your answer is dead on. Now to try and understand it inwardly so that I can make the needed mental adjustments.

Thanks man!

[sparhawk]

Candid,

I think I misspelled the first instance of the name. The name is "Melatonin". Melatonin is a natural hormone that the body produces and its production dwindle as we age. A few years ago a lot of reasearch was done about it and was deemed by some as a 'youth pill'. It is still very popular among transatlantic pilots since it resets your natural body clock for sleep time. The usual dose is 3mg and you can find it at any GNC store, as well as Valerian Root Extract (I haven't tried that but I heard it works).

Another thing I'd like to suggest is to visit a TCM doctor. If your Chi is out of synch perhaps some acupuncture will help. This plus some prescribed herbs should help you. I am a convert for TCM; it really helped me when I needed it.

Luis

[bradford_h]

Hi Candid-
I think this reading is simple and literal
38.1 not to worry
38.4 find someone who's been there
4 make good inquiries
So I'll second Luis and recommend 3 mg melatonin at bedtime, plus one capsule of Valerian root powder,
washed down with either warm milk or chamomile tea.
Melatonin is an OTC product and a hormone many people stop producing adequate amonts of. It's not a sleeping pill and it may take a week to start working properly.
If this doesn't do it all, a more extreme thing to add each night is 25 mg (generic) diphenhydramine. This is marketed as Benadryl by folks who don't want you to know it puts you to sleep, and as Nytol/Unisom/Sleepeze etc by those who don't want you to know it's an antihistamine. The generic is 10-20% of the cost of the others.

b

btw, Qi wa originally the steam coming off a bowl of rice. Then it became vapor and breath and then Life Force or Spirit. This breath = spirit is almost universal: pneuma in Greek, spiritus in Latin, prana in Sanskrit, ruach in Hebrew, etc

[lindsay]

Candid, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Pedro and Luis have good ideas, but here is another (non-medical) possibility. Perhaps you could undertake to begin a daily practice of sitting meditation. Something very simple along the lines of vipassana, simply following the breath. Meditation resembles sleep in terms of brain function, and is very refreshing and envigorating. Can you find someone to teach you the fundatmentals, perhaps a Yoga instructor? Or perhaps you already have experience, and would only need to pick it up again? It is very, very easy to learn, but can take a lifetime to discover all the riches of the technique. Dr. Herbert Benson's book "The Relaxation Technique" is old now, but still useful and relevant, a good introduction and easy to find. This is exactly the kind of thing Kevin was talking about a week or so ago. Very useful for calming the mind, slowing down and relaxing the body, recharging your energy. It's a suggestion, that's all. Costs nothing, no drugs, no fuss. Just a tried and true method used for thousands of years. I very much hope you feel better soon.

Lindsay

[sparhawk]

Candid,

Here is further info on Melatonin (http://tinyurl.com/2r8n7)

I'm glad Brad mentioned Benadryl. I hesitated to mention that since you seem to try to keep away from other types of drugs, but yes, that would work too.

On a happier note, try opening that bottle of red wine you bought the other day. Red wine always does charms for my heart... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Luis

[lindsay]

Bradford, that's great advice!

Lindsay

[candid]

Luis, I'll try the melatonin but will pass on other sleep aids. I've been through that mill with both over the counter and prescription meds. Its not a long term solution. Oh, and I already drank the wine over the course of a week. Not exactly how its meant to be consumed but more than that in a night and its headache city when I wake up.

Brad, extremely interesting information! Your reading interpretations make great sense.

Lindsay, I've practiced various meditation techniques and find simply counting breaths works best for me. In through nose, out through pursed lips, etc. But I confess, its been awhile since I've practiced sitting on a regular basis. Perhaps its time to take it up again.

My thanks to you all.

Off to rest awhile.

[dij]

oops.double post. sorry

[dij]

Qi information:
http://www.sumikiri.org/healingarts/healing.htm

http://www.cdsb.org/kienergy.htm - these people have saved my life

Biorhytm: Naturally occuring biological rhytms are different for everyone:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/b1/biorhyth.asp
http://www.bio-chart.com/geschichte.html


& from http://www.unusualresearch.com/Biorhythm/biorhythm.htm

What is a Biorhythm?

A biorhythm is based on the idea that certain aspects of your life move in cycles. These being your Physical, Emotional, Intellectual, and Intuitive well being. The cycle is based on a sine wave, each starting at 0 on the day of your birth. Each of the different aspects cycles at a different rate.

* Physical cycles once every 23 days
* Emotional cycles once every 28 days
* Intellectual cycles once every 33 days
* Intuitive cycles once every 38 days

------

Melatonin is effective for jet lags, and occasional sleep disruption caused by going to bed late few nights running and wanting to get back into your normal sleeping pattern.
What you describe sounds like a regularly occuring slump caused by inadequate sleep. You basically have a sleep disorder and should look into it.
Not being able to sleep longer than 3 hours going indicates to me huge amounts of stress and thinking - hence the meditation suggestion by L.
Of course, if I was a radical flake, I would hazard a guess that your bed is on a fault line. ;)

Get a dowser in and let us know what happens.



Fellow sleep disorderly

[soshin]

Candid,

I am very sorry about your Qi Crash, hope you will recover soon. Especially because your input to this site, when your energy level seems to be high, is overwhelming. I kept quiet for a while to "look, listen and learn" and your readings were most profound and a real inspiration to me.

Just one more thought added: Augra - she is my primary councellor, said, when I did some readings for her, that I should learn to recover after those readings conciously because I really get burned out by it, not noticing it because of the sheer joy to be able to help a person in need and the good feedback. If this does not apply to you, just forget it.

I can only say the same as the others before. From my experiences as a nurse on a Cardiac Care Unit: Our Doc's prescribe Melatonin regularily, it helps really, all those patients we have, partially in sheer fear of having that heart attack they already had a few days ago once again, being wide awake at night and tired at day get it and it really helps. Not at day one, but at day three or four.

And of course, as a Zen practitioner I would also agree in recommending to sit on a regular basis. I had times, when I sat only for two, three times a month, and this was almost worth nothing. It gives you a short relief, and then the benefit is gone. Now for about two months I try to sit on a daily basis (it becomes easier and easier because one can persuade the petty parts in oneself to do it because of the simple joy and benefit it brings in the long run - about a week or two of steadfastness should do) and this really changed my life for the better recently, together with other circumstances only Hilary and Augra do know ;-)

Namaste and best wishes,

Soshin

[heylise]

In the MaWangDui I Ching hexagram 22 has a different name: Fan. This is Artemisia Stelleriana, mugwort or wormwood, one of the most important healing herbs in China. The family of Sage.
The Artemisia family is big, and all members are important in pharmacopy. Their most important quality is restoring energy.
In the GuiCang YiJing 22 has still another name: Ying Huo. The two characters mean 'glow' and 'mist'. Moxibustion?? (burning a cone of Artemisia on an acupuncture-point which lacks energy).

So IMO 22 has a lot to do with restoring energy. You asked for the cause, but maybe the Yi gave the name of the medicine. I think Luis' idea of an acupuncture doctor is not bad at all. And tea made of sage is calming, might be a good drink in the evening, or maybe in a time like this during the day too. If you don't like it as tea, warm tomato juice with sage in it. Tastes good. Or tomato-sauce with lots of sage over your spaghetti. The traditional recipe is warm milk with sage and honey.

Then there is the new moon of Wednesday. No idea if your energy goes up and down together with the moon? Waxing moon is a time of building up new energy, and in the time of waning moon you can spend it, and feel full of energy.

Great sleeping pill: a few sips of red port. Not more, too much disrupts the dream-time.

Melatonin is good, I always use it, but don't expect an overnight change.

LiSe

[hilary]

Hi Candid,

I'm the opposite: still trying to cut down to 8 hours a night. (Yes, you read that right - cut down to...).

Half a thought on 22 - because I like the way people have approached it here so far very much - if it were the cause, then... do you invest your energy in 'being' brave, beautiful, energetic and easy to communicate with when you are actually feeling anything but? You do seem to spend more energy than anyone in being the approachable, friendly 'face' of this community.

The other potential energy drain in those two readings might be 'being in two minds about not knowing'. But I like Brad's common-sensical take on the lines. Horses are the energy you use to go places and do things. Running after them is counter-productive - you know that.

Sleep well. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/hug.gif

[calumet]

Candid, my sense is that you need to get into some approximately normal diurnal cycle. Of course there may be exceptions, but in the main that's how we are designed and your energy will be erratic at best if you try to buck the system.

Are you opposed to Benadryl? People have been taking it for bee stings and such for many years. It is OTC, though not an herbal. It'll make you sleep, if that's what you want. Take two, meditate in a reclining position, and that'll be that for the next 8 hours.

[candid]

Forgive me for lumping this response to all who have so generously offered assistance. So much good input!

What I do here is what I do everywhere. It doesn't matter whether my tank is full or near empty, if there's a genuine need that I have the ability to help with, I'm there. I don't present this as some great virtue either, its just the way I'm wired. I don?t think I?m being all that brave or beautiful.. just energetic. But it may be this over-extension that taps out my reserves. Or, it may be a perfectly natural cycle that just doesn't synch well always to the demands of my day to day schedule.

The way my sleep patterns have been naturally managed seems to work well, for the most part. (but I will try the melatonin) And whether or not they are even related to these crashes, I'm uncertain. 6 hours a night seems perfect, normally. More than that and I feel wasted all day. Less than that and my mind is foggy. Even the 3 hour's sleep with two hours up serves my purpose, because I write and think most clearly during these 'sacred' early morning hours. They are, in a sense, my daily meditation. Then, I feel peacefully sleepy and return to bed for another 2-3 hours. On rare occasion I'm unable to get back to sleep, but I think this occasional sleeplessness is pretty normal for most others as well.

Interestingly, Yi didn?t take an alarming approach to my questions. 38.1: If you lose your horse, don't run after it; It will come back of its own accord. A horse is a symbol of strength, which will return. When asked what causes this, Yi answered: Qi. It seemed no more dynamic than that. I do think Wilhelm?s comments on 38: ?These two movements are indirect contrast. Furthermore, Li is the second daughter and Tui the youngest daughter, and although they live in the same house they belong to different men; hence their wills are not the same but are divergently directed? are interesting, and have been wondering if there?s something there I could/should grasp that I haven?t yet.

Thanks gang!

[dij]

Hey! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif You woke up already! lol

Everyone has their own optimum sleep time I think, I'm more in the "trying to cut down to 8 hours " category myself.

I did want to say this though Candid,
I heard you talk, You waste Qi as if it grows on trees! ;)
just teasing, you talk beautiful I just wanted to make you laugh

For balance you must do give and take. Just give is as bad as just take.
thus spake dij

{{}}, donation from the hugs foundation

[candid]

chuckles are great for Qi regeneration, Dij!

Seriously though, that's what Pedro was saying, and there's much truth there.

Oh, and umm.. Qi does grow on trees, doesn't it?

[dij]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif
Qi grows *in* trees.

Can you receive with grace?

(this one I always struggle with myself)

I am going to say in my own words what I think others (and, indeed, Pedro) have already said above.

Yin and Yang are all about the balance between the two and Yi is all about expressing that relationship in life situations.
The art and skill is knowing what means what and when.

Like, when we are kids, it's difficult to comprehend that eating loads of chocolate which we enjoy is actually bad for us. *But it feels good* we say.
Or that eating bitter medicine is good for us, *but it tastes bad* we say.
When we have learned how this works, it gets easier to say no to chocolate or yes to medicine. (in theory. Me? I'm still at the 5 year old stage with chocolate)

This would be my take on 38 in your case.

(finally realizing this forum is about Yi reading and I should make some bloomin effort)

And you know, you have received so much good Qi from here that it is clear your giving is appreciated. However, you have to be just as responsible with giving [of your Qi] as if you were giving someone else's [Qi]. Does that make sense? Even if you are giving to yourself. Although that's called indulgence, it's not easy to identify, specially when we are engaged in something we understand to be worthwhile (like 'our best writing' or helping someone else much worse off than ourselves etc) If we are not restoring the balance to ourselves, we are injuring the Qi, our own and universal (since we are part of universal Qi).

22 - Pi - Keeping Still/Grace
You gotta wait out the bad times or "take a chill pill dude" as I like to call it.

so, to recap, make sure your engine doesn't run out of steam by monitoring your energy levels.

so, hows your blood sugar? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

*pats Candid* there there

[candid]

Dij,

I can receive with grace when the giving is without flattery or secret intent.

My living habits are far from entirely healthy, so do's and don't's would naturally improve Qi.

Have no idea of blood sugar or blood pressure because I don't do doctors.

In 38, I'm still wondering about the conflict between fire and lake rather than between yin and yang, as you suggest. Li burns upward while Tui sinks downward. Two women with different husbands under one roof. The image doesn't suggest a mingling or harmony of these two influences but a separation, preserving the individuality of each. Brightness and joy, separated. hmm

Going to take my Qi to band practice to overcome the danger of isolation in 38.4.

Peace and healthy Qi to all.

[soshin]

Dear Candid,

I must say, I forgot that the question was not: "Please help in prescribing some drugs - synthetically or natural - against my sleep disorder" but "Can anyone determine a possible solution to these energy crashes, based on these readings, please?"

OK, so I'll try to make some blooming efforts here, too (chuckles to Dij)

First: 38.0
The next sentences after the ones you read from the Wilhelm/Baynes version in the Wang Bi/Lynn versions are:
"It is by being joyous and clinging to the bright, by advancing softly and so moving upwards, and by achieving centrality (the Mean) in responding to the hard and strong that on here manages to have good fortune in small matters." So far it is almost the same text as in the Wilhelm Version, but Wang Bi adds:"When things always go against each other, this cosntitutes the Dao of harm. So what is the means here by which one may have good fortune in small matters? It is by having these three virtues."

Being joyous and clinging to the bright: (I think, as far as I know you, you must be clinging to the bright, at least sometimes, maybe your "morning meditation")

Advancing *softly* (...?)

Achieving centrality in responding to the hard and strong (matters of your daily life schedule such as your occupation and all your other obligations?)

"Heaven and earth may be contrary entities, but their task is the same" Perhaps your "Earth obligations" are not done with the same enthusiasm as the - of course more interesting and rewarding "Heaven obligations"? "But the task is the same." This is a very interesting point. Yes, you are energetic and you understand to connect to the source, where Qi grows on (or in) trees. But aren't the "Earth obligations" the ones whith which you have the real problem, which make you collapse?

"A time of contrariety can be put to great use." And Wang Bi adds: "This time is not something to be put in use by the petty man" As I think all of us consider you all but a petty man, I think you can overcome this problems and will not only recover, but with the help of the Yi being able to finally find the source of and the solution to the problem.

Back to "But the task is the same". In Zen philosophy, the masters made very clear, that the "Earth obligations" are of the same value as the "Heaven obligations", hence the meditative work (garden work, hosekeeping, chopping the salad and so on) or "Samu" is part of each retreat, in which we try to act as attentive and in a meditative state of mind as in the sitting meditation - or in other words staying connected to the source where Qi grows on or in trees. This is considered the hardest part of Zen Training, because of the distractions which make one looses his Qi. I am as far as one can get to transfer that myself into my everyday life, but anyway, "the task is the same".

"What I do here is what I do everywhere. It doesn't matter whether my tank is full or near empty, if there's a genuine need that I have the ability to help with, I'm there. I don't present this as some great virtue either, its just the way I'm wired. I don't think I'm being all that brave or beautiful.. just energetic. But it may be this over-extension that taps out my reserves. Or, it may be a perfectly natural cycle that just doesn't synch well always to the demands of my day to day schedule."

You sound like Augra... (chuckles). That is also the way she is wired. She takes no melatonin, but she must have plenty of it. But even she has this collapses sometimes, and she sees them as a natural part of the process.

38.1 of course, it will come back again, you know that.

38.4 Wang Bi: "Fourth yang has no line with which to resonate and takes its place all alone.....So it seeks a companion of its own kind and so entrust itself to it....Comrades get along and harbour no suspicions against each other....Although one finds himself here in the midst of enstrangement, when the will is firm, he realizes its goals. Thus, in spite of danger here, there is no blame" (..................)

4.0 "In danger and brought to a halt, this is "Meng". Someone, who do not yet know, where to go. (just an elucidation of your state of mind at the time you asked the Yi?) And "Confusion first followed by a coming to prominence."

So the bets are good for a solution. How?: Just as you did.

And as for 22: I'm with Hilary.

And now I will regain my Qi and go to sleep. ;-) I'm in the "trying to cut it to 12 hours" league, heehee.... and currently I'm living like I would live in Pacific Daylight Saving Time, so I will wake up at about 4 p.m. Middle European Daylight Saving Time (so far about *my* sleep disorder), which is not much of a loss because of the bad weather here in Vienna (today snowing down to 2000 ft), you lucky Arizonian.... ;-)))

Hugs, Soshin

[french_taoist]

Candid,

I hope your energy level will come back up soon... you know, even though I am new here I can safely say that Clarity wouldn't be the same without the benevolent energy of Candid! ;-)

As for your readings, a lot of sensible things have been said, so I will try to take it from a somewhat different angle. Here are my thoughts about your readings:

Hex. 38: As Pedro said, this may have to do with a conflict of thoughts within yourself, a tension between two conflicting elements in your psyche. Regarding this, psychoanalysis has a lot to say and Jungian Psychology in particular. C. G. Jung emphasized the alchemical concept of "union of opposites", which could be helpful in your present situation.
Here is the address of the major website about Jungian Psychology:
http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php

With regard to 38.1 the R.L. Wing I Ching Workbook says "there is an estrangement between elements that naturally belong together (...)"

As for hex. 4 this may have to do with some unconscious pattern that keeps coming back throughout your life and will keep doing so until the "blockage" has been dissolved.
Here is what the I Ching Workbook says: "You are able to competently handle just about every facet of your life, except for the one facing you now (...)" It seems like the "Chi crash" you've experienced may be the result of this "soft spot" you've carried until now.

Hex. 22 Still relating the Yi to Jungian Psychology this hexagram reminds me of what Jung calls the "persona", ie: the social role that society (or a group of people) has pressured you to take on, the danger comes when you forget that you ARE NOT your persona.

Going back to hex. 38, I was just thinking about the possible opposition of the "persona" and the "shadow". The shadow is the primitive side in yourself. It is both the darkest side of your psyche and the source of your creativity.

Last, I know of something that might help you with your energy collapse/sleepless nights. Have you ever heard of Bach Flower Essences?
http://www.bachflower.com/
Eventhough, without any accurate diagnosis it is not easy to tell, I have found a few essences that could help you in your current situation:
these are "Scleranthus" and/or "Olive" and/or "White Chestnut".

You may find some that may even be better for you.

I have used some of their essences for anxiety and stress and it has worked exceptionally well for me.


Hope all this makes sense.

All the best-

Christophe/French_Taoist

[cheiron]

Hi Candid

Agreeing with much above...

I suffered from a post viral fatigue syndrome in the mid eighties? it took me 10 years to return to work? PVF in the UK can be simply diagnosed as an immense energy crash with aspects relating to the breakdown of certain normal metabolic chemistry at cellular level. (In the US it can be used as a euphemism for depression I believe).

The thing that got me into it was misuse of my energy by over application at work and trying to sustain the unsustainable in a relationship.

Acupuncture and a few life changes was what got me out of it. Acupuncture, for me, is very powerful when it comes to energy.

Now I see my energy is tied to the moon ? with each new moon I see seeds of the nature of the coming 'moonth'? it grows with the moon; peaking at the full moon and that energy fades gracefully with the waning of it.

Your friend

--Kevin

[heylise]

GUI3: The character consists of an offering mat for oblations (2) and two eyes (1). The offering mat is a cyclical character: the one that indicates yin water (bringing oblations?). The day of gui was the day when the prognostications were made for the next period of 10 days, and it was a kind of Sunday, no hard labor or expeditions and such.
Meanings: diverging, extraordinary, to part, to separate, unusual, strange, to squint, to stare at. With sun instead of eyes: in opposition (like sun and moon at full moon). So with eyes it is like ?opposition-eyes?.
Gui is the hexagram of ?the others?, which may be people, or gods and spirits. On Gui-day the oracle was consulted, and everyone was apprehensive about what would be. A good or bad harvest, an angry ancestor when one has done something wrong or forgot an offering. Many had reason for 'opposition eyes'.
But it means also the unknown others one stares at, those one feels different from, or simply are not oneself: standing face to face with you, talking or silent, being nice or unfriendly.

So I agree with those who say that the answer was about spending your energy on others. Or maybe taking in too many from others, which costs you your energy. Energy is not a fixed amount you have or have not, it is continually made by your spirit. Motivation is a great source, but also laughing, like you said. Or making conscious what moves you.
38.1 says it: your energy runs away, but it will return. And: "Seeing evil people, without fault": people are the cause. Not necessarily evils ones, but just not good for you now.
It changes to 64, "The noble one is cautious when differentiating things so that each finds its place", find the right time or amount for anything you do in regard to this. And 64.1, soaking one's tail. Not going across quick enough, lingering, getting 'contaminated'.
38.4 "Askance, alone. Meeting an eminent man. Communicating true. Danger. Without fault". You do need people, but limit it to those who are good for you. Many will be very nice people, or you can do something for them, or they for you, but you will have to limit your expenditure of energy to the size which enhances your own health, instead of exhausting it.
Changes to 41: "The noble one controls anger and restrains passion", so limit your exchange of emotions. 41.4: "Diminishing one's afflictions, and sending the message swiftly brings joy. No fault." ? everybody will understand and even be happy.

Hex.4 can mean a whole lot of things: you are so candid, you have done this yourself. Or come back to the child in yourself, be free of 'knowing' again. Or find contact with your inner sage, the one who is talking in hex.4.

LiSe

[candid]

Dear Soshin,

Thank you so very much for bringing it back to the reading! While I do appreciate all the helpful suggestions on establishing better sleep habits, the readings as they pertain to the Qi crash was and still is the focus of my question here.

Much of what you've sighted and commented on rings with harmonious overtones within my subconscious. Meaning, I haven't totally sorted it out consciously but I know for certain there is truth in all you've mentioned. Because its still under water I'll have to dive a bit to retrieve the practical and applicable, but I can see the glitter of gold in the treasure chest below the surface already.

There is great connection to your comments about heaven obligations and earth obligations. I can't recall ever having stress and conflict with heaven obligations, but there always has been stress and conflict with earth obligations, and I'm beginning to see the earth obligations as being the source of difficulty here where these Qi crashed are concerned.

Your Zen approach is a natural and sensible solution, but I think there are complications here that have roots in a long and established pattern of responses developed over time. See, when I am busy with earth obligations there is no conflict. Qi at work flows strong and fast, just as with heaven obligations. But when it is dammed up with stagnation and inactivity, such as it has been, there's an unhealthy amount of inner stress. I'm thinking its this pressure to perform without the opportunity to accomplish that's having a negative affect on my energy. You are familiar with the term, ?look busy? when there is nothing to do? Be productive when there is no opportunity to produce? One can apply a Zen approach to gardening, but if there are no seeds to plant, the energy is forced backwards. I can?t center while chopping salad if there is only sawdust. So what does one do but take refuge in heaven obligations. This works fine for awhile, but if kept up there?s an excessive build up of earth energy transmuted to heaven energy. The result is that heaven energy becomes too excited, the unconscious becomes not just fully charged but overcharged. Answering the call to the heaven energy needs of others helps to allow the energy to flow outward rather than being pressurized within, but it is not enough to equalize the inner pressure or vacuum that still exists within the earth sector. This disturbs sleep and creates a restless condition overall. The result is that earth energy collapses, and only relentless heaven energy remains.

The solution, it seems, is to find another opportunity to express earth energy. Work has not been enough because it has been so erratic and slow overall, at least too slow to satisfy the intense energy stored up inside. But it can?t be just a busy diversion, there must be a calling, just as there is with heaven energy. One doesn?t just chop salad for the hell of it. That would truly be a silly way to spend earth energy, and a waste of perfectly good veggies!

French_Tao and Kevin, your helpful points are very much integrated into the above thought process as well. I read all three of your posts at once, and they all spoke as with one voice, or perhaps three voices in perfect harmony.

This is very helpful. Thank you very much.

[rinda]

Candid,

You will find something to do with your earth energy that calls to you. Scan your past for earlier interests, and keep your eyes open for new ones. I agree, this seems to be the key to the Qi problem.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/footinmouth.gif

Rinda

[candid]

LiSe,

How interesting. Opposition of eyes, not one's own only, but the eyes that create a guilty conscience; eyes of ancestors, God, gods, sun, heaven, boss at work, teacher, father... yes. And the feeling of not meeting with approval from those eyes forces my energy back to me to deal with. I deal with it through heaven energy, but its not enough to equalize the extremes, the source of discontentment.

I might disagree with the idea that I give too much and take too little. I receive greatly from exchanging information, whether its from me to others or others to me. Giving joyfully is as selfish as it is selfless. I find no conflict there, and I've learned to withdraw giving to those who are bad for me, or who offer nothing in return but contention.

I do agree however in a more figurative sense that I give too much energy in the form of worry to things I have no control of, and this goes back to guilt, perhaps the greatest energy thief of all.

4 = something to be learned, and I'm learning it.

Thank you.

[candid]

chuckles.. Rinda, why the foot in mouth? You're right, and have been. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/footinmouth.gif

[rinda]

Candid -

...it's one of those ongoing problems I have... and referred as much to an earlier off-forum note as to the one above.

Namaste-

Rinda

[candid]

I don't think there's anyone here who hasn't wrestled with these same things at one time or other. That's one of the illuminating things about Yi, there's only so may conditions which a human can experience, and they are common to all. Only things separating are the time and degree of experiencing. One loses sleep while another seeks refuge there, but we all share the same limited energy field.

Right, Dij? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

[dij]

Continuing exploration of Yi..

Candid, you said, "?what is the cause of this periodic extreme fatigue?? and received 22. "

I looked for various takes on 22 and found this, 22 (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond/h22.html)
<FONT COLOR="0000ff">"In hexagram 22 we find that facades can be important for social survival, but one must be weary of mistaking them for reality; There is at times a tendency to suck-out the inner light to prop up the outer. The context gives us the linking of words with facts (15) in the correct order (63) and thus establishing an attractive 'look' or attitude; linking things together generates 'value'."</FONT>

also, I like this one, which I use the most: eclecticeneregies 22 (http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/hexagram.php?nr=22)

I also found the very strange 22 (http://www.spirit-alembic.com/hexagram22.html) as well. It talks about enlightenment coming like a flying horse (?), which reminds me, what were you on about with the horse analogies the other day in first ever chat?

----

While the reading of 22 will be interpreted according to each person's individual proclivities, it is fascinating to see the range of Yi as expressed thorugh everyone's interpretation.
Hilary's so right, "how Yi ever gets any sense into people'" is exactly right.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/hex22.gif


looks like a fish to me..

[dij]

uh huh..talk about synchronicity..
right on candid
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[candid]

Dij, heh heh

"There is at times a tendency to suck-out the inner light to prop up the outer." Wow.

The bit about the horse in our voice conversation had to do with the reading of 26.3, which was cast for the meeting. It was the beginning of a topic which we didn't follow through with.

[candid]

A progress report to you helpful people: I've not gotten Melatonin yet but I've taken Valerian the last two nights, an hour before bedtime. Improvement in length and depth of sleep have been impressive so far. However, I'm still in crash cycle so its hard to tell what results will be once back on the up cycle. Will keep you posted. I plan on picking up Melatonin tomorrow and trying it as well.

Thanks again.

[bradford_h]

Hi Candid-
Happy for your zzzz's.
Just remember tho - Valerian is just for symptoms.
Melatonin might go to the root of the problem, if that happens to be that your body no longer makes enough. And it does take some time to work.
Pleasant dreams.
b

[sparhawk]

Hi Candid, I'm happy the Valerian works for you.

Here is something else to try in the long term that was brought to my attention:

Ginseng (http://biroco.com/other/ginseng.htm)

Ginseng 2 (http://biroco.com/other/squid.htm)

Now, this is long term and is related to Qi imbalances.

I hope you feel better,

Luis

[candid]

Thank you. Noted and remembered.

[jte]

Candid, nothing to add to the good advice above, but hope your sleep situation improves!

- Jeff

[cheiron]

I would add a caution to what Luis says re. Ginseng.

First it is prone to increase blood pressure and second it is a powerful stimulant. There are also two different types and that too is important.

When one is exhausted it can drive the body even harder causing the exhaustion to become much worse in the long run.

When I was ill with exhaustion I had a very good herbalist - she threw her hands up in horror when I suggested Ginseng...

IMHO - Better to address the energy imbalance with something like acupuncture and of course plenty of rest.

--Kevin

[candid]

Thanks, Kevin.

I?ve taken ginseng supplements for extended periods before, and have marked the increased energy, like a clear buzz. As for the dangers of awakening Qi through such herbal stimulation, it is real, but so are potential dangers of several other ingredients, such as found in a powerful vitamin supplement like bee pollen. Also, often a more active waking time produces a more restful resting time. I think in this case, the energy balance is off because waking time has been too stagnant, too much stored energy built up with nowhere to go (hence the energy collapse). So I?d only take something like ginseng to make the most of activity, preferably inclusive of physical as well as mental energy.

[cheiron]

Sounds like you have it sussed - probably more than me http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

--K

[candid]

Well, I get by with a little help from my friends. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I would add a caution to what Luis says re. Ginseng.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Kevin,

I will not argue your comments about ginseng because I don't have the knowledge required. I've had heard before about precautions to take before an operation, for example, where you are supposed to suspend your intake of herbs like ginseng and ginko before such an event and this must surely connect with your words of caution somewhere.

On the other hand, I also received a strong word of caution related to melatonin and the person who uttered them was as concern about advising people to take a hormone on an ad-hoc basis as you are about ginseng. So... what the heck! We may as well stick to plain h20 and pray... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Luis

[candid]

I asked Yi just now, ?managing Qi today?? Answer: 32.2 changing to 62.

Check out this Wilhelm commentary on line 2:

?The situation is abnormal. A man's force of character is greater than the available material power. Thus he might be afraid of allowing himself to attempt something beyond his strength. However, since it's the time of DURATION, it's possible for him to control his inner strength and so to avoid excess. Cause for remorse then disappears.?

Gotta love it.

[sparhawk]

Are chills still running up and down your spine or has the sense of wonder subsided? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

The Yi is an amazing thing.

L

[cheiron]

Hi Luis - Just a penny worth - I am no herbalist http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

BTW H2O has killed a lot of people who used in excess - Please be very careful. ;) chuckles?

Candid ? Splendid - Do you think the Yijing might work then?

Chuckles...

--Kevin

[hilary]

What, not dihydrogen monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)?
Don't say you weren't warned. It is routinely included in 'healthy' herbal tea preparations, too...

[rinda]

I've seen people come close to death with too much water - but it takes a whole lot of it!! (Gallons! - Wrong dose! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/ugh.gif) It's called water intoxication or diabetes insipidus (Not to be confused with "sugar diabetes").

Glad you are turning the corner with this Candid.

Rinda

[cheiron]

Hi Rinda

Yup, especially if it realy deep and they are poor swimmers ;)

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

--Kevin

[candid]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think there actually is something to this I Ching thing.

[sparhawk]

Hi Kevin, et al,

I have been exchanging messages with Steve Marshall about this issue since I recommended melatonin to Candid. Here is a message from him regarding the issue of ginseng and related to your comments and concerns. The message is unedited and comes with his permission to post it. Here it is:


<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Well Kevin proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, ie some truth but
not the whole truth. Ginseng can both raise *and* lower the blood pressure,
dependent on a number of factors, if it's very high it can lower it and if
it's low it can raise it. But common sense dictates that if you have high
blood pressure and are taking medication for it you shouldn't take ginseng
without discussing it with a doctor, who would probably advise against if
you are already on blood pressure medicine. There is also a superstition
that women shouldn't take ginseng, but take dong quai instead. I've never
been able to work this one out and am not sure whether there is anything in
it. I think that may be based on the idea that ginseng is "too yang" for
women, ie not based necessarily on sound medical principles. I think there
is no harm in a woman experimenting with it to see.

Ginseng is *not* a stimulant. This is a complete misunderstanding. Kevin's
herbalist doesn't sound particularly good, it would be interesting to know
why she wouldn't recommend ginseng for exhaustion since this is precisely an
excellent use for it. If she is genuinely qualified to speak, then maybe
there were other factors Kevin has not mentioned. If you are tired, ginseng
can make you carry on as if you weren't, but if you want to go to sleep, it
won't stop you. It is not a stimulant as caffeine is, it is, for want of a
better word, a balancer and equaliser. Ginseng was taken by horsemen on long
long journeys to stop them falling off their horses from exhaustion, perhaps
Kevin's herbalist would like to give them a ticking off.

There are actually three types of ginseng, Kevin is presumably bringing in
Siberian ginseng here. The ginseng I recommend is Panax ginseng, and red
Korean is Panax ginseng (as is white, the red form is simply "cured").
American ginseng is a different plant, Panax quinquefolium, but acts much
like P. ginseng, though is not as good.

I can't post to Clarity, perhaps you can pass along these humble comments
from a ginseng aficionado and ex-Lancet editor on my behalf. I'm not a
qualified herbalist, but then again I once met a qualified acupuncturist who
had a very impressive certificate on his wall. I asked how long he had to
study to get that and he said, proudly, 'Oh, three weeks, it was a long
course...'

On a side note, I see you say suspend ginseng before an operation... on the
contrary it is generally recomended to take ginseng for a week *before* an
operation to reduce the stress of it. As ever, depends who you ask, so
always make sure you ask the right person.

all the best

Steve<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers,

Luis

[sparhawk]

Furthermore,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

You can add that the book "The Tao of Medicine" by Dr Stephen Fulder is all about
ginseng and is very well worth reading.

Steve<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if we have been paying any attention, Steve doesn't recommend books lightly.

Luis

[cheiron]

Ahh - Steve seems to agree with my little knowledge after a bit of umming and ahhing... chuckles.

Secondly perhaps he misunderstood - My herbalist was treating me for chronic exhaustion (Post Viral Fatigue) - a case of don't whip the donkey when it has totally collapsed.

As for her being a poor herbalist - she was the best I have ever met... good enough to practice from a GP (General Practice medical clinic).

Well Steve always did have a gentle way of putting his case.

Perhaps it would be unworthy of me to mention her 5 year training and membership of the Institute of Herbalists ;)

A little knowledge etc http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Interesting nevertheless.

--Kevin

[dij]

"Ginseng was taken by horsemen on long
long journeys to stop them falling off their horses from exhaustion, perhaps
Kevin's herbalist would like to give them a ticking off. "

Actually, Amphetamines do the same for fraction of the price. eh heh

I think there is something to be said for allowing one's body to naturally reach the reacharged state.

Hey Candid, good to see you all sparky again. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[heylise]

Female.
Using Ginseng capsules for 3 years now, 3 daily.
Balances both my sleep- and waking needs: I sleep better, and I am more alert during the day.

LiSe

[sparhawk]

Well,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Well Steve always did have a gentle way of putting his case.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, will always be Steve.http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif He doesn't mince words, specially when he firmly believes in what he's saying. No hesitation and that's fine with me. Mind you, I've had my very own skirmishes in the past with Steve but I found that I agree more than I disagree with him.

Nevertheless, I don't believe he meant to hurt anybody's feelings.

Luis

[hilary]

A couple of things. Of course Steve can post here if he wants to - probably he means he doesn't want to. Posting via quotation is a great idea: thanks, Luis. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

On a different subject altogether - I'm starting to wonder whether I should be paranoid about all the medical advice being dished out here. I know Candid won't sue me if melatonin and ginseng make him come out in spots (right, Candid?), but do I need a legal disclaimer?? (Or just a few deep breaths?)

BTW, I think - no guarantee of accuracy here at all - that ginseng, like St John's Wort, may interfere with the efficacy of the Pill. Not that this is of immediate concern to Candid, but something to check up on for any young women browsing through...

[cheiron]

Thanks Luis - No my feelings are not hurt so much as I was a little surprised at his vigour... and yes, I too agree with him more often than not.

My ?get me through the day? is Cocoanut water. We ran tests in our office... Someone had bought a case of cartons of it and shared it. We all found (separately) that we experienced marked falls in our stress levels without any sedation.

So we gave some to other workers and observed them... same thing.

We later found that it is taken "By Brazilian men to cool their heat"

One wonders... I have a case of it in my boot.

Point taken Hilary?

--Kevin

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

BTW, I think - no guarantee of accuracy here at all - that ginseng, like St John's Wort, may interfere with the efficacy of the Pill. <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on Hilary! Toss the pill, get the ginseng, have some crazy "....brains out" fun and have a few babies. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Luis

[cheiron]

Boot = Trunk as in car / automobile

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

--Kevin

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

My ?get me through the day? is Cocoanut water.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if you add, 3 oz. white rum, 4 oz. of Pineapple Juice and 1 cup crushed ice, you've got a Pi&ntilde;a Colada in your hands.

That'll get you "through the night" also... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/clown.gif

Luis

[candid]

Thanks, Dij. Not on my game yet though. Wish I was.

Hilary, nice disclaimer. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif I don't ingest anything without some research and assuming full responsibility. I've never been involved with the court system, other than one divorce and serving as forman on a jury. Don't plan on changing that anytime soon.

[cheiron]

heheheh

Nice one Luis

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/6331/2127.gif

--K

[sparhawk]

Further from Steve. I think this clarifies his opinion:

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Further point, can you post this:

Maybe Kevin had flu. Ginseng isn't recommended if you're exhausted from flu,
then it's best to wait until the "turn" and use ginseng to aid recovery. It
is true that if you're exhausted because of flu and you take ginseng it can
make matters worse. But if the flu is on the turn and recovery is coming,
that is precisely the time to take it. Sounds like Kevin's herbalist didn't
want to risk that the "turn" had been reached, although the term "Post Viral
Fatigue" in itself implies the turn has been reached. I once misjudged the
timing, since flu can come in waves, and the ginseng aided the enemy as it
were. But if you get the timing right (hexagram 24 incidentally is the
point, the return of yang, see my page on the pigua cycle), then ginseng can
wipe away the exhaustion of flu extremely well. But in commercial dealings
the doctor really has to be sure the turn has been reached otherwise their
patients will be moaning, so they will often give a less effective but safe
rememdy, safe from the point of view of their professional standing.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luis

[cheiron]

Yup

Interesting... Good point...

BTW - It was ten years before I could work again... Some crash... I had to learn a lot about my energy and why I crashed and find a way back... 47... hard lessons learned.

--Kevin

[pedro]

Sorry guys, its not like I read all this thread, but I wanted to elaborate on my previous post, how it is all mental, at least what I uncovered so far and has been working for me

I went through a very long and disturbing period that ended a couple of weeks ago; at times I felt really drained, exhausted, unmotivated, close to despair... the rest of the time I just felt bad
But what was worse was that I could neither let it show to others, it was my obligation for a number of reasons (we never lack reasons), nor had I any solution in perspective that would give the slight hint of an escape;

It all ended when I started reading ACIM and started to realize all my subconscious guilt. Just freeing myself of (some of) that guilt has taken such a burden off my shoulders that I now feel energetic, invigorated, free to do whatever I choose, and certain of achieving it. Its not that I cannot go back to the old ways anymore, but they do not offer the sweet illusion they once did, as I realise their inevitable outcome, back to fear and pain

But what guilt is that? I hear you ask... well, I dont have the time or the skills to put it out in a comprehensive manner that would fit all; but all guilt is but an appearance of the only real guilt we all share, which is the guilt of the separation, of recognizing we keep on choosing every time our own (seemingly proved but utterly ineffective) solutions, instead of the only one that will ever work, which is that of God's.
That separation, the illusion of self and other, subject and object, has a number of associated problems. The most relevant here is the projection of guilt onto others and the world, away from where it really lies: in ourselves. It is the first step, to acknowledge that we are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to us, and that includes external factors, like luck and circumstances, as well as all relationships and interactions we have with other beings, and even all pain and disease, and ultimately death, as the body is the material paradigm of the illusion of separation, and must decay and die to prove that we are right, and God has indeed abandoned us. We rather be dead than wrong, but healing and even resurrection is possible, if we understand the truth
But one common misinterpretation is believing that one can be saved alone, that we can leave others to their suffering while we escape towards God. But others are really just ourselves, and while a part of me is suffering there can be no true happiness. We can only join hands in walking the path
Bottom line, you dont forgive you or your brothers (that would affirm the existence of a sin, or that you and I are imperfect, unlike what God said), you realise that there was never any error to be forgiven:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

What Is Forgiveness? Forgiveness recognises what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. ACIM WB-II-1<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
But even if some of these ideas may be too hardcore for you to accept, there is one simple way of understanding where does our energy go when we feel drained. It is lost in the conflict between our antagonic emotions. Fire and water must be homogenised, otherwise they will fight each other to exhaustion
We have many goals, many things we?re after, many things we?re avoiding. All those expectations, self imposed mostly, that we feel we need to fulfill, are putting an enormous amount of pressure on ourselves, which will require enormous amounts of energy merely to cope with the mental part, of anticipating the future, and revising the past
We lose in any case, cause the future causes anxiety (fear), and the past causes guilt
We cannot win unless we remain in the present, where we can see that nothing is expected of us because we have done everything already, and we did it just the way it should have been
We have to trust in ourselves, and realise we are perfect already, no need to do anything except feel the recognition, feel the love for ourselves, so we can then, when our hearts are filled, overflow that love to others

So basically just start by loving yourself (or actually, remove the obstacles you placed on loving yourself), and all the rest will come

[pedro]

Btw, according to ACIM all medicine is but a placebo, whose only real function is making us believe that it will cure us, and just seems to work because of that

Since all cure is a mental process (achieved through forgiveness), the only real need is to believe in what we ARE