What do you see?

[mothernature]

Please to meet you.
I'm new to this -- forgive me if I do something wrong. Please ask the Oracle to give me a picture about the relationship about me and my friend (about our friendship, what goes on between us and if this is just a friendship)? We are opposite sex.
All yours, Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Hello, it?s good to meet you too!

I asked the I Ching for a picture of your relationship, and it gave Hexagram 51, Arousing, changing to Hexagram 55, Abundance. It looks as if something is really happening here?

Rousing is the hexagram of thunder ? a terrific shock, but also a stimulus to new life. (It helps to know that the ancient Chinese understood the thunder to rise from the earth in spring, awakening the new growth.)

?Arousing thunder, success.
Shock comes, fear and terror.
Laughing words, shrieking and shouting.
Shock spreads fear for a hundred miles
Not losing the ladle and libation.?

This is a real shake-up, a shock to the system: passionate, dramatic, intensely alarming. You need to hold onto what is sacred to you, like the young priest whose concentration is so complete he never spills a drop of the libation even amidst the surrounding chaos. Perhaps this is a spring offering?

At all events, this marks a good time to start something new, but also to focus and examine carefully exactly what you?re starting. It?s good for feelings of anxiety at the changes to inspire some real self-examination.

The moving line shows exactly where you stand in the midst of the shock and upheaval:
?Shock revives, revives. Shock moves, no mistake.? This upheaval restores your vital force and energises you. To act on this, move with it, is not a mistake (but perhaps it would be a mistake if you didn?t?).

This is set in the context of Abundance: a cornucopia, the image of having so much it?s almost too much. This is an awkward hexagram, poised between plenty and discomfort. It?s vital to take a positive attitude, and make things happen: the opportunity will not wait for you; the sun doesn?t stand still.

?Abundance, success.
The king approaching.
No doubts. The sun stands at its zenith.?

Things may well feel very complicated ? an abundance of factors are involved and have brought you here. I find it very interesting that this is the image of an abundant harvest, considering the wonderful name you?ve chosen for yourself. But there are two aspects to this hexagram: the abundance available, and the kingly action of taking charge without worrying. The I Ching?s image for this is thunder and lightning coming together: the combination of clear insight with vigorous action - like deciding a lawsuit once for all, and implementing the sentence.

The challenge, I think, is to bring the ?arousing? into something more like conscious control, to turn it into timely (but thoughtful!) action.

I?d be interested to hear your reactions to this?

[mothernature]

It fit very much into the reality of the situation and I enjoyed the way you put things into the open.
Maybe a good point now is to ask for a picture of his feelings about me and a picture about his perceptions about the friendship or a future romantic relationship.
All yours, Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Glad the reading was helpful!

How he feels, and how he sees things developing - certainly this would be useful to know. But ? and here?s the awkward question ? why not ask the man himself? Unless there?s some overwhelming reason why you can?t ask him directly, that would definitely be the best way to go. Of course I?ll read for you on this if you?re sure that?s what you?d like ? but I thought I should suggest this first. Hope you don?t mind! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif

[mothernature]

I want first to ask the IChing, if you don't mind to help.
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Of course I don?t mind. Perhaps this reading will give you insights you can use when you do talk to him about it.
The I Ching?s picture of his feelings about the relationship is of Release in a context of the Receptive. If I had to put this in a sentence, I?d say he?s happy to let the relationship find its own direction and respond to what comes.

Release ? Hexagram 40 ? is literally about untying knots. It carries a great sense of relaxation and relief, like the release of tension when a storm finally breaks. (Yes, the storm is present here, too, but here it?s the quality of release that makes it feel like a fresh start.)

?Release. Harvesting in the Southwest.
With no place to go,
Coming back, good fortune.
Having a direction to go,
Daybreak, good fortune.?

The harvest ? the benefit ? for him comes in the southwest: an easy relationship, common ground, the warmth that comes naturally. For the rest, it is (deceptively?) simple: when the path leads nowhere, he will leave it alone; when he does have a sense of purpose, he?ll pursue it swiftly. It could be that things have been more difficult ? more of a struggle ? for him before, and he has simply had enough of swimming against the current. He would rather let things take their natural course and allow the truth to emerge over time.

Release also means forgiveness: ?The wise disciple forgives transgressions, is lenient with offences.? This is like the thunderstorm: tension released, new growth begins. It?s also a matter of untying knots ? not being trapped or trapping others in a net of rules and expectations. It could be relevant that the exact opposite of this released, relaxed feeling is the image of People in the Home (Hexagram 37), enjoying a close, secure domestic relationship where everyone knows where they stand.

The setting for this feeling ? perhaps the way he?d like to respond to a relationship developing through release ? is simply the Receptive. As the direction of the relationship emerges through Release, he?ll be ready to respond and support what grows. The rain of release lands on fertile soil in him; he offers no resistance. What he most probably won?t do, though, is take the initiative ? any more than a good horse would.

The moving lines go into more detail?
Line 2: ?Catches three foxes in the field.
Gets a golden arrow.
Constancy, good fortune.?
Foxes are full of mysterious power and craftiness, at least in the Chinese tradition. They can change shape and disguise themselves as women, bringing blessing or (more often!) misfortune. But this is a fortunate line, because he has caught the foxes and mastered whatever might have been deceptive or threatening in the situation. The golden arrow represents the qualities that have the upper hand: clarity, directness, balance and focus.

Line 4: ?Releasing the thumbs. Friend arrives in the end: special, true.?
This line suggests that holding on ? gripping with the thumbs ? has actually prevented the arrival of a friend he can trust. As he lets go, enters into the spirit of release, the possibility of a real friendship opens up. Whether this means being less possessive about you, or letting go of someone or something else, the I Ching doesn?t say.

I hope this makes it easier to talk to him!

[mothernature]

I found this a little hard to understand specially when you talk about letting go of someone or something or starting to being less possessive about something or someone.
If you dont mind I would like to go on a clarification.
I didn't understand very much about anything as I don't think the explanation was an easy-to-follow clear picture of his feelings. Sorry.
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Oh dear... I sometimes think that these questions about other people's feelings should come with a' health warning'...

The I Ching will give an accurate picture, guaranteed, and usually I get the interpretation right. But this doesn't necessarily mean that it's easy, or even possible, to understand it all. We're talking about the forms and images in his inmost soul. There are limits to what anyone can understand about anyone else, and maybe also on what we're meant to - even despite the enormous hunger and need we feel to understand.

(End of 'health warning'!)

In practice, in readings about yourself it's often the moving lines that speak to you most directly, because they're the most specific and personal part of the reading. Maybe that's why they can also be the hardest part to understand when you ask about someone else. But even if you leave those aside for now, you can learn a lot from Hexagram 40, for example - wanting a free, relaxed relationship that finds its own way, not wanting the domestic intimacy and security of People in the Home, wanting something easy and natural after too long spent struggling...

Can you help me with this? The thing is, I know nothing about the outer circumstances of this relationship between you - so when those are reflected in the I Ching's answers, I won't be able to recognise the reflections. If you see what I mean...

And of course, you know the man - perhaps not from the inside, as the I Ching pictures him, but still you know him. It could be that your own intuition can tell you many things about that I Ching reading which I could never guess at.

In other words, I think I need your help here to be able to say much more about the reading. I'm sure everything will become a lot clearer as we work together.

Hope to hear from you http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif

[mothernature]

Ok. What do you specifically need to know?
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Well - almost anything and everything, really!

The reasons why you need to ask the I Ching for a picture of the relationship - why things are unclear to you. And what prevents you from talking to him directly. And how far the relationship has got, what you have communicated to one another.

And how you reacted to the two readings - what you recognised in the first one, if there were specific reasons why the second one felt wrong...

It's more a question of what you think I need to know in order to understand your situation, your feelings and what lies behind your questions. (And, of course, what you feel comfortable sharing here.)

[mothernature]

1) I ask because I want to know what ground will I step in when I feel it will be the right time to tell him I love him.

2) I am not going to talk to him directly. I am afraid to make a mistake and loose the friendship. By now I prefer to ask you and wait for the answers.

3) He has a demanding job. We are not seeing each other for a while but the communication still exists through casual weekly mail messages. He rarely, almost never, takes the initiative to send me a message. He always plays the receptive role and this is one of the reasons I am here at the forum: we are long term friends and I don't understand why he always act as the receptive character.

4) The first reading fit into the reality of the situation. It talks about something powerful, shocking and freshing that I feel represents the way we met and shared the friendship.

5) The second reading sounds confusing. I don't understand it. I was looking for an answer about his feelings and it still remains a mystery to me.

6) I miss him badly. I don't know what I should think about us. Is he still a friend? Does he misses me too? Am I still special (was I?) or I am a past chapter into his life? What will happen? Will I see him again? Is the link between us really strong on his part? What can I expect?As you see I have a lot of inner questions right now. I feel uncomfortable. I am not feeling confident nowadays.

7) I don't like to share my feelings like I am doing right now at this place: it seems I am weak. It is very hard to talk in here about me and the way I feel. This is painful but I am here because I want to go deeper into this. I feel my time for questions and answers is now and I really intend the experience at onlineclarity could clarify my way.

All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Actually, I think that being able to talk about your feelings here is a sign of tremendous strength. I'm not sure I could do it myself. I do understand the intensity behind your action.

What you said does make more sense of some of that reading about his feelings. It agrees with your perception about him being always the receptive one - that's Hexagram 2, exactly. It's actually quite encouraging, since this doesn't mean not caring - far from it ? and suggests he responds strongly and willingly to your initiatives. And it does sound as if he wants a free, relaxed relationship rather than anything formal or organised. (You know ? the feeling of having a friend he can talk to easily, rather than a relationship where everything is clearly defined and there are definite expectations about how he must act.)

The moving lines are still puzzling ? perhaps they always will be. So what follows is really only speculation.
I expect that he, too, found your first encounter to be shocking and alarming. I wonder whether those foxes might not represent the dangerous side of it as he experienced it: something alluring, potentially threatening, maybe with deeper instincts disguised as something harmless. But he has caught the foxes, got this under control to his own satisfaction, and so this is a positive line. And I would imagine that, in the other line, you are the trustworthy friend. I don?t know what he needs to let go of, because I don?t know what he holds on to so hard it gets in the way ? maybe some of his attachment to his job?

The bottom line is that other people are always something of a mystery at heart, and there will always be some risk in sharing your feelings. I wonder whether you might get more from another line of questioning, more focussed on yourself, your experience and what you can do. If we take it that he is not going to take the initiative, that he wants the friendship to be relaxed and open, and that he just might be a little nervous and have problems with trust where he isn?t in control?

?then the next question might well be how you can best approach him. What do you think?

I?ve also asked the I Ching what you can most probably expect from this relationship (mainly to check my own interpretations so far). Would you like me to write that reading up for you? Just say if you would.

[mothernature]

Thank you for being so supportive. This mean a lot to me.
I would love to know what you have to say about how can I best approach him and what can I most probably expect from this relationship.
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[candid]

Dear Hilary,

You are, without doubt, the most patient and forbearing person I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. *chuckles empathetically*

Do you give lessons in this ability? Sign me up, if you do!

With admiration,
Candid

[mothernature]

Candid, why do you think Hilary is being patient with me?
Am I doing something wrong?
I would like to know why you are saying this after read what Hilary and I are talking about.
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[candid]

Mothernature, If you can't see how Hilary has been very patient with you, nothing I say is going to make much of a difference now, is it?

You have repeatedly rebuked the advise she's given you, insisting she council you your way and still, you want her to do your homework for you.

You must go forth with what you've been given and use it. The Book of Changes doesn't go through your changes for you. You alone, must do that. You now have all the answers you need to be fortified. Go and use them.

Forgive me, Hilary. I don?t mean to speak for you or for the council of this website. But I am Candid, after all.

[hilary]

Candid, what on earth has got into you? As a rule, I greatly appreciate your thoughtful contributions here and I'm very glad to have you. But on this occasion - no, you most definitely do not speak for me.

Mothernature hasn't rejected the advice I've passed on - just said that she couldn't relate to the second reading. Hasn't that ever happened to you? To her enormous credit, she didn't promptly say 'do another reading' (as some do...) but asked to have this one clarified. She's also been refreshingly open about her feelings and circumstances. Now she's simply picked up on my own suggestions for further questions. If she's got this all wrong, then most certainly I have too, as I can see at least a couple of further questions that could help.

Nope, I'm not especially patient and don't give lessons. But if I come across any remedial courses in tact and perceptiveness, I'll drop you a line. (Sort of kidding, but really pretty vexed. This is one occasion when I wish you'd kept your candour to yourself.)

[candid]

Your wish is my exit.

[candid]

Joint approach, huh? Perhaps, but it seems to me, its all about women here. Women's perspectives, women's questions, women's "tackful approaches" and women's answers. Perhaps you may consider renaming the site while you're remodeling. The Women's I Ching Workshop.

You may keep your remedial course and your feminist "friends of clarity."

*deletes the sight from favorites*

[hilary]

Dear Mothernature,

Please, please understand that I absolutely do not agree with what Candid wrote at all. Not a bit. (Nor his last little effort, either. Feminist? Hello??? I hadn't heard that only women could be sensitive, or only men could be tactless, had you?)

So, let?s try to forget that little episode altogether. Now, where were we?

There was the general question of what you might expect from the relationship. Note I say ?might? ? what actually happens depends on your choices and his, and because you are both free these can?t be predicted. But what this reading can (hopefully!) give you is a broad picture of the shape of things, the likely form of any relationship you could create.

The I Ching draws this picture with hexagram 41, Decrease, in a context of 27, Nourishment. The context, Nourishment, suggests to me that this is about the give and take of the relationship. The I Ching uses the mouth to suggest things you take on board and things you send out into the world, and this hexagram encourages you to look very hard at both of these. ?Contemplate the mouth. Seek the source of the substance in your own mouth.? In essence, the I Ching is inviting you to ask yourself questions ? what messages do you give to him, what essential needs of your own are involved, and what does he actually give you? Think before you accept the messages he sends as representing truth about yourself. (The same is true for the messages anyone else sends!)

So those are the background issues. Hexagram 41 says, in essence, that you will be doing most of the giving.
?Decrease, with sincerity and confidence.
Fundamental good fortune.
No mistake, there can be constancy.
Harvest from having a direction to go.
Asking how, what for? Its use, two platters can be used for the offering.?
Giving, making sacrifices ? this can be sacred (a sacrifice is literally making something sacred by offering it up). But there has to be sincerity, it must come from your fundamental source, and you must have a sense of purpose ? why you are doing this, where it is leading. Being asked to undergo decrease can be frustrating and bewildering ? that?s why the voice is heard asking what this is for. You?re called on to block off your anger and restrain your desires. All the same, it could be worth it: Decrease makes you lighter and freer, and keeps harm at a distance from you. It doesn?t have to mean grand gestures ? just two simple platters are enough.

And finally ? the one changing line.
?Harvest from constancy. Setting forth, misfortune. Nowhere decrease, increasing it.?
Constancy ? putting your ideas and clearest perceptions into practice, over time, and with persistence ? pays off. But setting forth to arrange things as you think they should be would be disastrous. (The image is of a general marching his army off to subdue the rebels. Sometimes this approach works ? but not here.) ?Nowhere decrease, increasing it? is an enigmatic little phrase that different people take different ways! I think it is about reaching a balance between what you give to him and what you receive: how can you give to him without decreasing yourself?

I?ll probably be busy for a little while (my husband?s birthday is coming up, and I have paid readings to do as well as free ones http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif ), but I will definitely come back and do the other reading for you.

With love,
Hilary

[mothernature]

Thank you very much Hilary.
You are a sensitive human being and I say that because we both know that being sensitive and kind is a quality of good people no matter what sex they are.
Thank you and may your husband's birthday be an enlighted one.
I will be waiting for the next reading.
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Hi, I?m back?

First a ?PS? to the last reading:
I should have mentioned that 41 follows from 40? Um. You know what I mean: first you have a picture of his desire for an open, relaxed relationship rather than a strongly committed one, and what follows from this is what you can expect from the relationship: decrease, more giving than receiving.

So ? next question ? how best to approach him? Of course ?best? is an ambiguous word ? best for you in the long term, or best for him, and is that the same thing?? But for now I?ll take it as meaning more or less ?the best way to approach him to develop a more rewarding relationship?.

Ah. Oh. After I?d written that paragraph I did the reading, and I have a feeling that if I was prepared to sweep all those other questions under the carpet for you, the I Ching wasn?t. Well, I?ll give you the reading, and see what kind of ?best? you think it leads to?

The I Ching?s answer: Hexagram 52, Keeping Still, changing to 27 ? again. So we haven?t moved too far from your last question: the basic issue for you is still of give and take between you; whether your own needs are met; what messages and sustenance you send to him. All these needs and emotions now come to bear on how you need to be with him ? in a word, still.

?Keeping still at your back.
Not grasping your personality.
Moving in your rooms.
Not seeing your people.
Not a mistake.?

This means having the stillness and stability of a mountain ? quiet, unmoving, the reverse of the rousing energy of thunder. This is a meditative kind of stillness, but in the sense of being with the situation rather than attempting to grasp it and get a rational picture of what is going on. ?The wise disciple reflects, and does not go out of her situation.? It?s as if seeking to act on things was a kind of escapism ? well, that?s too strong a word, but an attempt to get more distance than you need.

The basic advice is to keep still, not to do anything to surprise him, and not to expect perfectly open communication. We tend to think that not understanding ourselves or other people is always a bad thing, that everything has to be brought into the light and made absolutely clear. The I Ching says that this is a time for simply being with things as they are, not trying to grasp them, and that this is ?not a mistake?. It should mean that you can stay centred and strong, not at the mercy of other people?s actions or your own impulses.

But how does this fit with your own needs to be nourished by the relationship ? and to give to him? There are two moving lines connecting these hexagrams, and it seems that there are two ways it could go.

The first, line 1, is comparatively good:
?Keeping your feet still. Not a mistake. Harvest from ever-flowing constancy.? Keeping your feet still means stopping at the beginning, before you move towards him. Take the time to think about how you present yourself to him, and don?t act until you are quite confident. That way nothing goes wrong - there's 'no mistake'.

Line 3 comes as a serious warning:
?Keeping still at the waist. The backbone divided. Adversity suffocates the heart.?
This line means being almost torn in half. You are drawn forward by your heart ? and yet you are also stopping, applying the restraints of this hexagram. This makes you horribly vulnerable. It is possible to be too unyielding, to make the rules too harsh. You could be seriously hurt by the conflicting forces here. Perhaps if you let some expectations go, it could be easier to respond flexibly?

I'm very much afraid you're not going to like this reading. (I know I wouldn't!) The I Ching seems to be taking the questioning back to you - I wish you a clear journey through it all...

[candid]

How can I post this thought and not sound like an ass? It seems that's a tone I seem to send out here. For that, I sincerely apologize.

Following Dharma's wise and eloquent post about self expression, I guess I'll just spit it out, again.

You must go forth with what you've been given and use it. The Book of Changes doesn't go through your changes for you. You alone, must do that. You now have all the answers you need to be fortified. Go and use them.

[hilary]

Candid, it's very good to have you back!

I agree that there comes a point when you have to stop asking questions and start acting on the answers - also that this moment is easy to miss. I'm also beginning to feel as if it's arrived here - after that last reading I can't think of any further questions beyond 'Surely you didn't mean that?'

But then it's not (primarily) my job to find the questions. The bottom line is that this is Mothernature's conversation with the oracle, and so she and the Yi will negotiate between them when it is time to stop, and their interpreter will interpret as best she can. I have a lot more confidence in the Yi's ability to say the right thing than in mine. (Reasonable in the light of my recent efforts, wouldn't you say? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif)

[mothernature]

Hilary,
Definitelly I am not interested in receiving any Candid's advice about how can I use my free-will.
It is not fair to try to induce me to stop asking.
And this person is definitelly wanting me to do that and I really wonder why.
As I said at the beginning of the posts I am new to this. Did I do something wrong that could induce someone's to come in here and repeatdly try to induce me to stop asking?
How could be the intention of that?
I don't understand.
Isn't this forum an open one?
In this way I definitelly don't understand what is going on here????

About the reading, Hilary, I again, sorry, insist that it does not fit into the reality of the situation. There is something wrong here.

If you, Hilary, think it is time to stop asking, I will. I never expect to find this restraintment for other user - Candid.
Definitelly this 'Candid' has a rude and judgemental energy around.

If you think you can help me understand more, Hilary, I am all yours.
You write beautifully and you have an intense wisdom about the Oracle, you have a profound knowledge of it, and that is why I will only listen to you and your advices. But at the same time things seem easy to you to understand - of course, you are intimate of the oracle's knowledge.
But I am not. Sometimes it is hard to follow what you write and what you are trying to explain cause simply I am new to this, I dont know the Oracle and I dont have any knowledge about it.
What is easy for you to understand is not easy for a 'beginner' to follow.
In this way, I definitelly don't comprehend this reading and it seems very far away from the situation.
I dont know what happened or what is happening.
I also don't understand Candid's insistancy to try to make me stop asking.
This is very hard to understand.

What is going on here, Hilary?
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[dharma]

Mothernature,

I wonder what you think about all this discussion going on around you. In your efforts to understand your situation you consulted the I Ching, but didn't, I'm sure, expect to receive this unexpected bonus which, on the surface appeared to be a squabble (at first http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif) seemingly unrelated to you.

What was evident on the surface was that two other people were working through their own stuff in the midst of your confusion and concentration. However, could this seemingly unrelated interaction have had any significant meaning in relation to your own inquiry here?

In my experience, nothing that happens around us is ever out of context and unrelated to us. Often, it is one of those 'round about ways the Universe has of communicating a response to us that we sometimes miss.

When I first began to meditate, I experienced a whole slew of 'disturbances' that frequently disrupted my attempts to focus on the task at hand, and I would quit out of frustration.

As I gained more understanding of the art of meditation itself, and the conditions that masters themselves often practice under, I realized that all those times I quit prematurely because of what I perceived to be outside interference. In fact, I had many preconceived notions about how this was supposed to be done and so I really missed the point.

Little did I know then that I could have focused on the buzzing fly at my window as my means of entering INTO meditation--and then understanding how tenuous my balance was if I could be thrown off by the smallest of things (like a fly!). I often failed to grasp realities about my condition and situation because I didn't make the connection.

I wonder...aside from the I Ching reading from Hilary, did the interaction between Hilary and Candid spark anything more for you?

with love,
Dharma

[mothernature]

Hilary, can you explain what is going on here?

[mothernature]

Hello Dharma, sorry.... what is going on is that a person is intromissing herself into other one's business but not to help but to mess, that is all.
I am not talking about you and neither Hilary.
Sorry, that is the way I am seeing this, and again, I came to the forum to ask IChing and talk to Hilary, open to others of course, but to relevant others.
Sorry, again, I am not talking about you.
But I understand there is something wrong going on here.

[hilary]

Well, this is an open forum, so anyone who wants to drop in and make what they feel are helpful suggestions is free to do so. I guess Candid will get the message and cease making this suggestion!

The general point is that it is possible to ask the I Ching too many questions. How can this happen? Again very generally - when we don't like what we hear, we want to ask more questions in the hope that the answers will be more favourable. If we want to be absolutely sure before we act, we may keep on asking questions instead of taking a risk. I keep saying 'we' for the very good reason that just about anyone who's ever used divination must have come across these problems. Candid is a very experienced user of the I Ching (much more so than I am) and evidently thinks you've run into them. But you're the only one who knows. (I certainly don't!)

Hmmm - I seem to be 'interpreting' the other people here as much as the oracle! But anyway... Dharma is thinking about synchronicity. You don't have to agree with anything Candid said, or even find it at all relevant. Even so (she's suggesting) there might still be a message in it for you - not coming from Candid so much as through him. The world is always sending messages - it's not always in what other people say, but what we understand.

Dharma, hope you don't mind being so abruptly summarised. Candid, hope you don't mind retiring gracefully (just from this page!), since all the wires seem to be well and truly crossed.

About this reading not 'fitting into the reality of the situation'. Of course what it's actually meant to be is not so much description as advice - and that includes warnings for the future. I would think you would agree this relationship has the potential to hurt you, because what you want and what he want do seem to be different. This is at least partly why you've seen Hexagram 27 twice - because there are problems with exchange and (not) receiving what you vitally need from him.

But do remember that those two moving lines are alternatives. One way or another, you will need to keep still - not try to understand everything or expect a very open state of communication (at least to begin with). But the first way is not so bad, with constancy it gets good results. Keeping your feet still, you don't let your feelings run away with you and rush into things headlong. The second way could be very painful - but you know, what it actually describes is being drawn strongly towards him yet fighting to stay still and keep in control. I should think this is easier to avoid if you take the moderate,cautious approach advised in the first line.

If you have more questions, of course I will carry on and do my best. If you want to pause for a while, try out some of the ideas you've been given, you can always come back. This is your conversation with the I Ching - no one else's.

love,
Hilary

P.S. I wonder - are some of the problems in understanding down to a language difference? What's your native language?

[mothernature]

I am not hurt at all, this is a very long and caring friendship between me and he.

I tried to approach this diferently cause you said what i want is not the same of what he wants so in a temptative to make things clearer TO ME
I asked what i want from the friendship and the answer is primary 22, lines moving 3 and 6, relating 24.
I also asked what does he want from the friendship and the answer is primary 24, line moving 1, relating 2.

If you do not mind to do this one more time I think it will be easier to me to understand because by these two questions I can summarize the answers I am looking for and the IChing is patiently, beautifully and lovely giving me.

All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Dear Mothernature,

I like the way you write about the I Ching ? here and on other pages. Beautiful, patient, lovely, truthful, sometimes rude ? yes, all that sounds very familiar!

You?ll have noticed how these readings are linking together. 'How your friend sees the relationship' was Release in a context of the Receptive. And here is the Receptive again, in the same position. As part of what he wants, it?s how he personally sees things and relates to the whole idea of a relationship. And as before, this is not someone who takes the initiative! It could even be that he is apprehensive about taking the lead, fearing he might go in the wrong direction. Yet there is still a lot of strength here, even if passive: I imagine he?s ready to accept and welcome initiatives from you. Looking back over past readings? could this also be a way for him of remaining strong and in control?

Hexagram 24 is Return: someone treading his own path, moving to and fro on it freely. It?s also a return to the source, and hence the return of the energy that comes from the source.

?Returning, success.
Going out, entering in, without pressure.
Partner comes, no mistake.
Turning round, returning on the path.
The seventh day comes, returning.
Harvest from having a direction to go.?

This picks up on that idea from #40 of setting off on the road when he can see the destination clearly ? and turning back if there doesn?t seem to be one. Hexagram 24 offers the freedom to go out, come back, walk freely on the path without having any trouble or suffering. This suggests that for him, relationships move in natural cycles. The emphasis at this point is on coming back. As a seasonal hexagram, this one represents midwinter ? actually the moment when the sun begins to return, the days begin to lengthen. The important word here is ?begin?: the movement back is not complete, and it will be a while before communications between people are back to normal.

As for the moving line ? oh dear. I?m afraid this is one of the most ambiguous in the whole oracle. This first line is traditionally understood as someone who recognises he?s gone wrong before he goes too far wrong, and so returns to the right path. The question is ? is this turning back from the relationship, or back towards it? Since at present he?s uncommunicative, I?d say it?s probably ?turning back towards?.
?Not far away, returning.
No repenting here.
Fundamental good fortune.?
He hasn?t gone far from you ? there isn?t any huge, alienating distance. But the other side of the coin is that there is some distance: this is the absolute beginning of a new beginning. He isn?t far from the returning energy, the positive rising force, and so he?s hardly reached the point of regret. Also, he doesn?t want to go that far. He would rather stay in touch with the source (the fundament) and with himself.

So my educated guess (!) about this one is that he wants the life and light to return to the friendship, and also that (as ever) he wants this free and without either pressure or obstacles. What he doesn?t want is the opposite of #24, Hexagram 44, Coupling: a seductive force that enters his life and turns it upside down, completely beyond his control. Remember the ?foxes? he caught? This is the same idea.

I?ll get onto your other question ASAP. Promise!

[mothernature]

Hilary, I honour your words!
Thank you for helping me. Your words are like rain into my heart!
What advice, as a woman and a IChing reader, would you give me to help me in this situation, Hilary?
I am anxiously waiting for the next you have to say, not forgetting, please, the reading you so gently promissed me.
Be blessed.
All Yours,
Mother Nature.
BTW - I tried to help Brooks of the 'A sibling for my son' topic. I think you were refering to what I wrote in there. I tried to help. I like to help people. If we have something good to say we always should say, but if we just have harsh words to offer so it is better to be quiet.
This is a good way to make things better in our life, specially in desperating moments.
Thank you for being you too so gentle to me.

[hilary]

Dear Mothernature,

ASAP (?as soon as possible?!) turned out not to be so soon, didn?t it? Christmas is coming, I have cards to write and presents to make, and suddenly I?m inundated with paying customers. I?m very happy about this, of course, but I?m also very busy.

Anyway? about that question of what you are really looking for ? 22, Grace, changing to 24, Return. Of course you want the energy and purpose to return to the relationship ? but having this hexagram come up as the relating one seems to say that this is also something happening within you. I think that even from the glimpses I get of you at this forum, I can recognise it ? a surge of strength and purposefulness, getting back on your own path. This would follow from a time of Stripping Away (Hexagram 23), when you felt the initiative, the ability to direct events, being taken away from you ? as if painful things were simply inflicted on you. I do get the feeling that you are beginning to take back the initiative. As always with #24, the important word is ?beginning?: it doesn?t mean ?instantly back to full strength?, just that the tide is turning.

Isn?t it extraordinary that you should offer your help to someone who received this hexagram ? and then receive it twice yourself? (It seems to be the hexagram of the moment for many people here at present. Of course, as a calendar hexagram, it is exactly the hexagram of this month?)

For you, this resurgence is the backdrop to a desire for grace and beauty. Hexagram 22 is about things that look and feel right, well-ordered and beautiful. It also means concentrating on presenting yourself as well as possible, like a suitor does ? one meaning of this answer is that you want courtship. Ideally, you?d like the outward appearance of the relationship to reflect its true value, as a flower?s beauty reflects its essential nature. Perhaps you?d like to be able to create this kind of relationship as an artist creates a sculpture.

This is also actually quite a thoughtful time ? not joining together at once, and not cutting off the process of deliberation prematurely, but reflecting carefully and casting light on things. The risk with Grace is always of putting too much emphasis on the surface appearance and neglecting the true substance ? that?s the way that leads to Stripping Away.

There are two moving lines in your answer?

Line 3 says ?Graceful, and hence immersed. Constancy, ever-flowing good fortune.?
The images here are from water ? bringer of beauty and good health, but also an unpredictable element that can sweep you away. There is a great richness of feeling here, as if you were surrounded by water, and so there is also some risk of being swamped by it. But ?constancy? means remembering your vision, and being consistent and persistent in carrying it through in the outer world: when this is ever-flowing, it brings good fortune. It sounds as if you want to be completely immersed in the relationship, while still preserving your own integrity.

Line 6 praises simplicity:
?White grace. No mistake.?
This is perfect beauty ? nothing ornate, nothing to disguise the true nature of things. Simply put, you want the truth, and you don?t want to deceive yourself ? but you do also want that truth to be beautiful.

There?s probably a lot more to be said about this reading ? what does it suggest to you?

I have read your other question! The I Ching has already given you an answer, I think ? with Hexagram 52 changing to 27, some way back up this page. But I know that you had trouble with that one, so we must decide whether to ask again, or whether to make another effort to understand that answer. It does still sound as if your priorities are different from his, and you would always be confronted with the problem of 52, line 3: trying to hold back for his sake when your heart draws you forward. Not receiving all you need from him, not being able to express all you want to ? these themes won?t go away.

If you would like to ask another question (which is fine http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif), could you tell me a little more about what you are looking for from the answer? Advice on what?s best for you, no matter what? Advice on how to make this relationship better? (Maybe the two are the same. I don?t know!) What you are really looking for makes a difference.

[mothernature]

How intuitive you are Hilary.
I felt very impressed with your words and I thank you over and over again.
About the second reading, yes, fate always holds me back for his sake when my heart draws me badly forward but I am experiencing balance now, Hilary, so I decided to let it go in order to have it back.
Can you understand this aparently conflicted idea?
It has been hard for me but I am trying to get my balance although I am always in need of advices cause I step in sand soil: the feelings ground!
I would like to know how to reconnect things, how to make the relationship warmer, how to start things with him again, how to make things better.
This is basically what I am looking for.
I also would love to know if his feelings will return to me one day... I wonder about that!
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif
Talking as women and friends, what are your perceptions of everything after the IChing answers?
All yours,
Mother Nature.

[hilary]

Dear Mothernature,

At long last I?m back. I?m sorry not to have got back to you before I disappeared for Christmas!

I?ve been looking through all the I Ching?s answers on this page, and there does seem to be a pattern. Like I said, the difference between you is not going away. You want something rich and beautiful ? a relationship you could swim in, as it were, maybe even drown in? But for him, possibly the most important thing is freedom to move, plenty of space and the sense that he is in control and free to make choices. I think he is a little afraid of the potential for being hurt if he is more committed ? what if he were deceived and overwhelmed, what if he were committed and then you moved on?

I can understand letting go in order to have it back, I think, because the I Ching has been telling me about this for many years now! And you received Hexagram 41, after all, which speaks of mysterious gain through giving things up. It?s all a delicate balancing act ? you have to restrain your own desires, since being like the leader who sets out with an army to create peace and stability does not work out well. (In international politics it might, but in relationships I doubt it!) That reading about stopping says in essence that to stop your feet is good, but to stop your heart tears you in half.

What will happen in the future? It depends! Not a very helpful answer in itself, I know, but true all the same. We can?t know for sure what your friend will decide or how his feelings will develop, because he is a free individual.

(I?ve just finished reading Paul Coelho?s The Alchemist. Next I?m going to read it again, and then I?m going to buy more of his books! One of the parts that I loved best was a conversation between a camel driver and a very famous and successful seer. The seer said he didn?t read the future, he guessed it, ?based on the omens of the present. The secret is here in the present. If you pay attention to the present, you can improve upon it. And, if you improve on the present, what comes later will also be better.? The future, he said, belongs to God, who only very rarely reveals it. ?When he does so, it is for only one reason: it?s a future that was written so as to be altered.?)

So ? how to improve on the present? What is the best practical approach?
Answer ? Hexagram 53, Gradual Development, with no changing lines.
This hexagram is traditionally about the ancient Chinese way of betrothal. Basically, this was very slow and steady ? full of ceremonial and careful preparation. So this hexagram is about a relationship that develops so slowly it may seem not to be developing at all (or so I?ve often found in practice!), but that is moving on ? unstoppably. It?s like a tree that grows on a mountain ? of course it will grow more slowly than one in the valley, where the soil is richer and life is easy, but it still grows steadily, and its roots are in the rock.

What does this mean in terms of practical advice? First, ?harvest from persistence? ? loyally holding onto what you want and carrying it through into practice. Gradual Development actually follows on from Keeping Still ? and it still has the stability of the mountain inside, as the foundation for growth. But ?things cannot come to a complete standstill?.

Next, it?s important to understand that the process involves two people, equally, if it exists at all. ?The woman?s marriage waits for the man to move.? I don?t think this means doing absolutely nothing while waiting for him to make a move ? but it does mean that it?s simply not possible for you to go faster than his pace.

What can you do, then? You can be like the tree on the mountain:
?The wise disciple dwells in integrity and spiritual power
Improves the people.?
I think the image here is about the way a tree simply by growing and being itself creates a whole environment around it where other creatures can flourish. The wise disciple has the qualities of the mountain ? inner stillness and solidity ? and also the tree?s vitality. ?Spiritual power? is te ? the quality of being yourself, following your own path (tao) to the fullest. And ?improving the people? (which sounds a little daunting!) also means speaking gently to people, conveying kindness and being non-threatening. Hopefully this gives you some ideas?

One last thought:
At the heart of Gradual Development is the hidden possibility of being Not Yet Across (Hexagram 64). It encapsulates the feeling that you haven?t made it yet, like a little fox who has yet to cross over the river, alert to the possibility that the ice might not yet be strong enough to support it. Maybe you aren?t ready to make the crossing, or perhaps it just isn?t yet the time to do so. This all sounds very much like your own lingering feeling of uncertainty about the ground underfoot ? solid, or liable to melt away at any moment? Not quite making it across and falling in instead is no good at all. Because this is only a possibility, I think it is very much within your control ? up to you what you do with it. Being Not Yet Across can feel like a complete disaster, everything gone wrong just when you were expecting to ?live happily ever after?. Or it can be a time of building creative potential for the next step. It means ?masculine strength exhausted? ? but it also means ?things cannot just come to an end??

I hope this all makes sense to you. I know you?ll let me know if it doesn?t! :-)

Oh, and by the way ? Happy New Year!