I'm brand new, I have insight and would like help too

[jeanetteisis]

Hi, I am new to this site and brand new to I Ching. I have been going through alot of growth in the past nine months. Psychic occurances, synchronicity, precognitiant dreams, automatic writing, etc. This is coinciding with my marriage problems which I would like a read for, please. I am so interested in All That Is. I feel like I am living in "The Matrix." It is wonderful yet also perplexing since it happened so rapidly. I would like to reach out to you.

[binz]

Hi, and welcome to the next step on the wonderful journey that is your life.

You are not alone, (I am a chemical engineer by profesion, and thought I only believed what could be proven by science) since last summer I have become aware of things that I never believed in before (my 'mid-life awakening' as I like to think of it). These have included a 3rd aspect of life beyond the mental and physical aspects, and i believe it is here that the occurances you have experienced occur. For me the occurances have included awareness of spirit guides, and an awareness/sensing of the underlying 'energy' that is in all things, and it is this energy flow that is maybe what I Ching (among others) helps us to follow. I don't mind if others disagree with these perceptions, they are just what I peronally feel and I'm open to learning. Oh, and yes this all happened around the time of resolving some big relationship issues.

You ask for a reading, I haven't done readings for others and there are many people here who would be much better than me at such a thing. But I am happy to offer some general advice. That is
1) follow what feels right inside of you
2) if you aren't sure what feels right, then the I Ching can help to clear away the muddling thoughts and get to what's inside.

You want a reading for marriage problems, can you be more specific about the question you want answering? Try forming a clear open question, then cast a hexagram yourself if possible, then post what your initial feelings are on its meaning (if you feel able to share them) or even just admit if you don't understand the hex' and then ask for others opinions.

good luck with it all, and remember, there's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.

Binz

[pedro]

Man, you're all having planetary returns http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif I bet neptune and uranus are playing important roles in your lifes. For lifelasting wise guidance you need to get to know the I Ching, and for that you're in the right place to start. But besides that I strongly recomend you guys get involved with astrology, cause that is going to bring a lot of answers as to why this change in your awareness is happening right now, as well as to how all your inner patterns works (your profile, interpreted from your natal chart).
Start by going to http://www.astro.com (sorry to promote another site here, Hilary, but I really love it, and Im sure you aprove of its quality), entering your birth data and reading your personal horoscopes. Astro click portrait is a nice feature that lets you click on the chart for its individual components (for instance, check mars and saturn for the ugly part http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif); individual aspects are not correlated, say, one aspect may turn you very shy, while other makes you king of the party, you'll probably be something in the middle; but it is not hard to find the real important ones, since you know yourselves. Also check your daily transits, and future forecast (where you'll most likely find the culprit); there's even a partner compatibility chart, and an astrology tutorial, so just go explore the site. You can also create a free profile so you can go back every day.

As for readings you better learn the coin method and draw a question yourself. Then we can help with the interpretation. I wouldnt trust that important matter to anyone http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[binz]

thanks for the advice, I'll check out the link at lunchtime. How much does it matter that I don't know my time of birth?

[candid]

Hello and welcome, Jeanetteisis. Thank you for reaching out. We receive from the Universe by opening ourselves to it. Its good to see that you are open.

I've no reservation about casting the coins for someone sincere, which I've just done for you. I imagine you will receive additional input and interpretation from others here. I'll provide a brief interpretation concerning your marriage, as you've asked.

The first hexagram is 12, Standstill. This is a picture of heaven above earth. While this may appear to be the natural order of these elements, its actually the opposite. Heaven's direction is upward while earth moves downward (gravity). This means that the current state of your relationship is separation, if not legally or physically, in the spirit of your marriage. There is no relation above to what is below.

During this time you won't find a sympathetic understanding from your estranged spouse. The advise is to remain true to your principles and withdraw. It isn't wise to expose yourself to ridicule as nothing will be gained from it.

You have two change lines, one in the first line and one in the second.

The first shows a ribbon of grass being pulled up. From this, it appears that there is another involved, possibly your child? The meaning is that in addition to your withdrawing from the conflict, you influence another (or others) to retreat along with yourself. This spares you and this other person from further grief and humiliation.

The second line suggests that for the time, you bear and endure in the quite of your inner composure. It does well for you not to mingle with your adversary or their associates. You may have to suffer some in aloneness, but this will secure your fundamental principles from being tread upon.

Your relating hexagram is #10, Treading. This is a picture of what your situation and question was about. This suggests that your strong side is being troubled by your weaker side. Part of you wants to rise above it all but is troubled by emotions which follow. Hence, the image of the weak treading upon the strong. The council is to bear with the weak in gentleness. Be gentle with yourself through this. Remember also that pleasant manners succeed even with irritable people. This requires a certain reserve and inner strength.

I see nothing in this reading to suggest that you're on a wrong path, but also see that it isn't an easy journey. Remaining true to your principles is strongly implied.

Hope this has been helpful.

Candid

[pedro]

Hey Binz, time of birth is fundamental for accurate positioning of the more dynamic elements (like the ascendant and the houses). It wont matter in most of the aspects between planets, cause they wont change so fast (except for the moon).
But I sugest you start by inserting a best guess time (do you have any clues? day, night?), and then you can pay close attention to the ascendant interpretation as you try different times of day. Its easy to edit the time from the interpretation page, so just start at noon, for instance, and go changing the time hour by hour (a sistematic approach would be to write down the times for each of the 12 ascendants, as they are not given 1/12th of the day each), and reading the ascendant interpretation you get. When you come to a couple of possible ascendants or so, you can narrow it even more by seeing relationships to the ascendant, till you find the one that truly speaks about you. The interplay of the houses will also show you if the time is right or if you need more fine tuning
So the short answer, is go by trial and error...
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable of astrology would like to offer a better advice?

[mick]

Jeanetteisis,

I think that more than anything else, you need to Earth yourself at the moment. Big time.

If you can get to work outdoors in the garden then that's fantastic. Really get close to the Earth. Get your hands in the Earth if you can.

At times like this I think the best thing is to try to feel and maintain your connection with the ground.

Best wishes,

Mick

[jeanetteisis]

Thanks Candid and all,

When I said brand new, I meant I just saw it in a reference in another book called "The Tao of Psychology, Synchronicity and the Self" by Jean Bolen, MD. I haven't learned it myself yet.

Candid, your description was valid. We are separated and divorce papers have been filed. We have one daughter. Our preliminary hearing is April 8th and I have been thinking about putting it off if my lawyer will agree to it.

I suppose my actual questions start here. Is it in my highest good to want to put this marriage back together. How to make that happen? Is it going to happen? Is there someone else for me?

Perhaps those are too many questions. Maybe you could pick one for me again, Candid. Recently I have had two dreams with numbers in them. My parents had marriage problems awhile ago. I dreamt that my dad called and said, "I'm ready, come get me, I'm at the Shell station on (highway) 49." That was it. Then the other night I dreamt that I had an old building and some workers were fixing it for me. The bill got too high unexpectantly. It worried me or distressed me so I asked them to stop. The bill was $62,000 and some change. I was just reading this book I mentioned on the chapter of the I Ching. On one page the author mentioned the hex 49, Revolution and then how a patient kept getting to her dismay the hex 62, Preponderance of the Small. It feels like those spoke to me through those dreams.

Add that to what you threw for me already, what do you think?
Thank you so much!
Jeanette

[candid]

Hi Jeanette,

I'm glad the reading connected with you.

Its really interesting that the numbers in your dreams synched with hexagrams that speak to your circumstances. I think you have a good feeling for what 49 is about. 62 may not be as understood. 62 speaks to the seemingly small and insignificant things. Details. This could be as small as having your hair done or taking your daughter to a movie. It can also speak to details which need to be handled in business or finances.

In a sense, what Mick has spoken of is also related to 62. You might think, what significance would gardening have to the great changes I'm going through? But it isn't a time of prepondering the great. That's another time and hexagram. Its a time to consider the small. Whether gardening be literal or figurative, I believe Mick's advise is good.

Before doing further readings here with you, why not ponder the small things you could be doing to build a good life for you and your daughter?

The only suggestion I have regarding whether or not to attempt reconciliation with your husband is to ask yourself why you chose to divorce in the first place? Would it be any different, really? If it would be, then there's hope. If not, perhaps you made the right decision.

My sincere best wishes,
Candid

[jeanetteisis]

Oh! Another number in a dream. The morning of the dream with 62, I took a nap with my daughter and dreamt that I was in a beautiful building with a very ornate lower level at the garage and that we were there to get money. It seemed that the mood was at least suspensefull but also good. There was a movie projected onto the balcony or in the next room to make it look like real people, but I noticed it. I went over and the date on the top of the movie, which was of two people dancing romantically, the year was 1937. So does 49, 62, and 37 mean anything or maybe it's something else besides I Ching? What is 37?

[candid]

37 is the family. I can't say whether it relates or not. That's something for you to consider. The year was 1937. 19 is approach of spring.

I can't write these numbers off as coincidence, primarily because of the impression the dreams and numbers have had on you. They're clear in your mind.

37 may suggest that the family ties be kept alive, even should you go through with the divorce. It may say that your daughter still needs a Dad.

I don't wish to pry into your personal life too deeply. But these are my impressions.

[val]

Hi Jeanetteisis,

It's a pleasure to meet you. I'm fairly new to this forum myself. I've been following this thread quietly since you started it.

First, I just want to encourage you in your study of the I Ching. It is the most incredible source of advice for everyday living you'll ever find, and you're very fortunate to have found it...especially at such a critical time in your life.

The process of consulting is very simple. Understanding the advice is less simple. But the folks in this forum are incredibly helpful in that regard. My learning process has accelerated dramatically since I found this forum. ACCEPTING the advice is the single most difficult thing I think I've ever done in my life...*grin* I'm a stubborn person, and for years I've doubted and failed to follow its advice. Over time I've seen that its advice has indeed been the best path to follow, and I am now open and receptive to it.

Until I saw Candid get such an incredibly accurate answer for you, I didn't know it was possible to consult the I Ching on someone else's behalf. His insight is awesome, and I'm not surprised in the least that he hit the nail on the head.

I have no idea whether I have the talent to read for others that Candid apparently has, but I couldn't resist trying after reading your most recent post. So I threw the coins on your behalf.

I'm going to quote the author of the interpretation I like the best...so far. He is very direct and to the point and interprets for each of three basic areas of one's life: Prosperity, relationships and the spiritual self. I personally like the direct approach and understand that others may not. Please accept my apologies if his approach is too direct for you.

I only asked if it was worth your while to try to put the relationship back together because I've learned through various life lessons, including the I Ching, to take things one step at a time. To me, making a decision that you're secure with about the marriage is the first step. This is the answer I got (the relationship interpretation only).

Hexagram 19:

You dominate Friend; Friend submits to you. It is not neurotic, since both of you are aware of it and enjoy it. This arrangement carries you to great heights of passion and pleasure. But Friend will tire of this game before you. The resulting conflicts are obvious. Compromises of love will lead to eventual reconciliation. But it will never, never be the same.

Changing line is 6 in the third place:

He is eager to act
but his action will be futile
Anxiety
but no mistakes

I think that line needs no interpretation. Just change "he is" to "you are" and "his" to "your". It's really confirming what Candid has already said. Be true to yourself and withdraw from the relationship. The possible action of reconciliation will be futile.

The changing line creates a new and secondary hexagram, Hexagram 11:

You are not totally involved with Friend. You do not share your entire life with Friend. You include Friend only when the situation seems to relate to Friend on an obvious level. Everyone has certain close and secret places; but you keep too much of your life hidden from Friend. Perhaps you have a tendancy to keep the unpleasant, problematic things to yourself and share only the pleasant things. If Friend is not like you the difference situations and problems and events in Friend's life which probably overlap yours require a response. Thus, although the meaning of this hexagram is peace it could bring about conflict.

My intuition is telling me this is not so much an interpretation of your part in your marriage in the past as it is advice as to the appropriate behavior in the withdrawal from your marriage...especially in light of Candid's reading for you. It seems to be confirming what he said. Keep your life separate and secret from your husband. Or as he said, do not mingle with your adversary or his associates.

As difficult as it is for me to relay such drastic life-altering advice, what I'm getting from both readings is the best thing to do is proceed on the path you're already on and distance yourself as much as possible from the relationship. The message is coming through rather strong in fact. As difficult as it may seem to you now, following this advice could very well benefit you down the road.

The next most appropriate question I think is how to handle all this with your daughter; the separation as well as her continuing relationship with her father. At 12 years old, she's at a very critical and sensitive point in her emotional growth, and how this difficult situation is handled is crucial to her well-being...now and in the future.

As to whether you will find someone else down the road...if you find your 'self,' you will find the most important person you've ever met in your life. That's usually what happens when women leave less-than-healthy marriages.

Jeanetteisis, I do hope you'll stay in touch in this forum and allow us, with the help of the I Ching, to support you as best we can while you go through this difficult time.

*hugs*

Val

Post script: As I was getting ready to post this, email came through of Candid's answer to you. He said: "The only suggestion I have regarding whether or not to attempt reconciliation with your husband is to ask yourself why you chose to divorce in the first place? Would it be any different, really?" I really think the interpretation for Hexagram 19 and the changing line 6 in the third place (above) addresses that.

[val]

Candid...

I just got your last post in email. I can't write the numbers off as coincidence either except that they are coinciding with Jeannetteisis's discovery of the I Ching. WOW!

Very powerful message in the dream. The money is critical. The realization that the romantic couple dancing was not reality, but a "fictional" "projected" image is critical. And being the one to notice it is important as well. 19 is also about influence...maybe it's telling her to be aware of the influence on her family, her daughter, of all that's currently happening, or of her own influence on her family? Money and family? Should she talk to her attorneys about child support on April 8?

I believe the fact the building was beautiful is saying she has the confidence and strength to carry things through. As you said, though, only she can know what these images mean to her.


At any rate, she's clearly immersed in the decision making process on every level of her being.

Ciao for now,

Val

[candid]

Val, please, never again question your ability to read. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

About the only difference between how we perceive this is, that I lack the conviction that reconciliation is out of the question. Hearing your interpretation of my words made my eyes pop open. You have the conviction. I'm still unsure. Maybe that's a good balance. Kinda yin & yang. Other than that one aspect, we?re reading the same page. *grin*

Jeanetteisis, don't mean to leave you out of this part of conversation! Putting all this input on your burners, there is one bit of advise I'm absolutely certain of. Hang in there. Perseverance furthers. That's just good ole common sense. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

[val]

Candid...

I don't have the conviction really. It's just those final two sentences in Hexagram 19 and the "action is futile" phrase in the changing line. I'd love to feel an alternate interpretation to that phrase...and I'd love to believe the author spent just a little too much time watching Borg episodes of Star Trek...you know...the "resistance is fu-tile" thing.

I don't feel that reconciliation is out of the question. I firmly believe it's do-able. But, as much as I hate to face it, I get the I Ching is saying why bother. And I don't see anything in your reading or mine about getting family counseling or arresting decay or reading John Grey's book, "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus." If she'd gotten 57, 59, 18 or any other hexagrams that recommend steps toward dissolving the blocks to communication or dispelling the illusions of romantic-love-lived-happily-ever-after, steps that would further reconciliation, then I'd be hopeful.

Ciao for now,

Val

[anita]

Welcome to the forum Jeanetteisis,

By the way, does the Isis part of your name have anything to do with the goddess Isis?

I think you're getting the best advice possible -- that too from two terrific and wise people on this forum. Reading these posts makes me think that your current plans are the way to go. That's the changing line in Val's reading and the 12 that Candid drew. Stick with the I Ching. You can always count on it. Divorce can often be a new and wonderful beginning (always when it's an unhealthy marriage you're fleeing -- I know) and I think it takes courage to put your broken life in order again, but it's worth it because finally you and yours have peace of mind and that's the most important thing in life. Everything good is born from that.

I wish you all the best and hope you get to know more about the I Ching which can really be a friend and speak to you in the voice of a friend. Also, you are among friends here.

Best for your Quest

Anita

[candid]

Val, I agree with you. Neither saw anything about going to receive marriage council or about reconciliation. The 'action is futile' in 19 seemed to nail it alright. Your reading just seemed more bold in asserting what seemed like a finality, and you may be exactly correct. I see this as your strength of conviction. That's what I meant, not that you were too bold in your assertion. Truth is, I was stunned altogether by the dynamics of your reading/interpretation. My eyes popped open as in awakening to things I hadn't seen. Another example is 'seeing' the details in Jeanetteisis's dream, which slipped right by me. I wasn't flattering you when I said to never again question your ability to read. I was encouraging you because you have a gift, which I whole-heartedly admire and respect. The yin & yang comment was also meant as complimentary. The interesting thing is that your position seemed the yang while mine was more yin. Just opposite of our living gender roles. You, as a woman, have developed your assertiveness (yang) whereas I, a male, have developed my intuition (yin). At least that's how I see it. I sense a healthy balance in this.

I hope that Jeanetteisis will have more to say concerning how all this sits with her.

Candid

[jeanetteisis]

Hi,

Thank you so much! I am actually getting ready to go get a book on the I Ching, so maybe I will understand how to look at it since I don't really know what changing lines mean and all of that.

I will tell you that I am fearful of these events but the truth is the truth, just what is it? My husband is seeing someone else. I question if they crossed that final moral boundary by having sex. At first when I saw the description of the changing line of he wants to act but it is futile, or anxiety but no mistakes, I took that to say they haven't done that. My dreams have suggested they haven't done it yet either, but how much is me just clinging and wishing that this weren't really happening. Just this morning I had a dream that he was laying on me with his head on my chest, which in my dream I thought was ironic since I have been telling myself that I want to hold him and just let him cry. You see, he has been the "strong" one this whole time and acted like he was ok, always the one to save everyone else. Now he says that he needs to be more nurtured and that it's not me. I don't "want" to get divorced. It's him. Our daughter is 16 months old, not 12 years, but she gets it more than I realize.

What Mick said about gardening was ironic also since I was just looking out the window and seeing that the daffodills are starting to come up and that I need to get to my parents' old house and get the rest of the daff's before scheduled constructions starts and they are bulldozed under forever. Hmmm...

I know I am 6 hours behind you, but hopefully you will check back in with me. I look forward to getting a book.

Love,
Jeanette

[val]

Dear Jeanetteisis,

I'm going to keep calling you Jeanetteisis, or isis for short to keep alive the goddess within you that will see you through this difficult time.

I am so so sorry.

I'm sorry I fumbled around with your daughter's age. It was the Hexagram 12 that I stumbled over...and I'm easily confused...*grin*

My heart goes out to you and your daughter both.

*hugs*

Val

[jeanetteisis]

Hi all,

I just got the book by Brian Browne Walker. It was the only one the store had. Val had mentioned that she got 19 and read only the relationship part. I don't see that in my copy, so perhaps someone can comment of the differences between different copies.

I threw once today with no specific question formulated since I know there is only one thing on my mind. I got 36 with no change lines. It seemed to totally describe where I am at. I don't know about any interpretation beyond what my book said. Any thoughts?

Also, I chose Isis after the goddess since I had felt some calling to Wicca, yet I just like what she symbolizes, but I guess I don't even know what that is. I just remember her on a show as a child and I thought she was so cool.

Thanks again for your kindness and support,
Jeanette

[val]

Hi there Jeanette...

I don't know a lot of differences, and I don't know anything about the version you've just acquired, but there are several people on this forum who can help you in that regard. I used to use the Wilhelm-Baynes version along with the version I now use which is I Ching, A New Interpretation for Modern Times by Sam Reifler, but I felt using the different interpretations muddied the well for me. I decided to use 'one language' to communicate with the unconscious to avoid confusion, and I liked Mr. Reifler's the best.

I spent a good part of the day in the I Ching section of the Bodhi Tree in West Hollywood looking through the plethora of versions of interpretations. I finally settled on this one because it spoke to me.

As luck would have it, I actually made a web page of one of the interpretations from my book last week, and I can show you a sample interpretation and some notes by the author. Like you, I'm very sensitive to the unseen and unheard around me, and I've been getting feelings from another person very frequently lately. I asked the I Ching what the person was feeling, and the answer spoke volumes to me, so I transcribed it and illustrated it using the basic design elements in the book, and layed it out for the web.

Hexagram 35 (http://home.earthlink.net/~303/yi.html)

This is a 'custom built' interpretation. I illustrated exactly what I threw. I got a 6 in the first place, so I placed an X in the first line of the hexagram. I didn't transcribe all the lines for the hexagram, just the 6 in the first place, and the rest is verbatim from the book.

I didn't lay out the secondary hexagram, which is Hexagram 21 just because I haven't gotten around to it yet...and because hexagram 35 is my goal. 21 is how I'm (or we're) going to get there.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

[candid]

Val - I enjoyed the page. Interesting concept, breaking it down: artha, kama and moksha. Found the reading interesting too, especially the yin/yang role models he calls, Friends.

[val]

Oh geesh Candid. I just now read your post in email. I saw two emails under it from a male friend who I respect and admire and who I was happy to hear from and flew right by the email with your post in it without even reading it.

You really MUST read the webpage I made for Hexagram 35. It sounds like an echo of what YOU said in your post and yin and yang and traditional gender roles!

Thanks so much for your kind words about my interpretation of 19 and Jeanetteisis's dream. What I said about your insight is not flattery either. It was an honest assessment. I try not to flatter...validate yes, but not flatter.

Ciao for now,

Val

Post script: I've got this post in preview mode. My email client just alerted me to a new email. It's your post about looking at the webpage I mentioned in my second paragraph of this post. I can see I need to type faster ...*grin*

[candid]

*just chuckles*

[val]

Jeanetteisis...

Regarding hexagram 36, I'm transcribing for you the interpretation from the Artha section of my book below. I think it contains some very sage advice for you...or anyone in your current situation...on how to survive day to day.

You are in the intolerable position of being under the authority of forces that are contrary to your principles and beliefs. Instead of just being irrelevant, on a different plane, the underlying direction of the outside forces that direct, shape, and limit the circumstances of your life confront your own philosophy and ideology head-on. There is nothing you can do to change this situation. You must, in fact, accept the continuing existence of this darkness that envelopes your life. You will always see it as darkness opposed to your light, as a lie opposed to your truth, as evil opposed to your good. But because the scope of this dark authority is so wide and because its influence is so pervasive, you will be forced to accede to its impetus on all levels of your life except the most personal. You are alone among your acquaintances in your condemnation of these darke forces. Other people either condone them or maintain a laissez-faire attitude. No one would be receptive to any initiatives to change or destroy the powers that be, at least at present. You must resign yourself, in fact, to being a slave--for the time being. You must be blind to the evil surrounding you. This is a shameful time for you. But while being forced into all these sins of omission, you must never allow yourself to fall into a sin of commission. Don't give in to your oppressors to the extent of acting on their behalf. When it comes to your reactions, you must submit; but your actions must always be pure and correct, according to your own principles, no matter what the cost.

Jeanetteisis, this is not saying you should hide from the pain you feel. The only way to rid it of its hold on you is to feel it...let it go. Let your tears wash it away. But in privacy. Do not share your pain with others. Hide it from others. Do not let your pain manifest itself as anger in your dealings with anyone. It speaks of pure and correct behavior...as did the Hexagram 10 that Candid got for you. Considering the other readings, and the common thread of keeping secret and away from your adversary, I think, during this dark time, it might be wise to let your attorneys do as much of the talking for you as possible.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Val

[jeanetteisis]

Hi all,

So Val and Candid, what did you think of my analogy to "anxiety, no mistakes" to Rick actually not having sex with this woman? (The two of them say no, but who knows) I could see All That Is using the I Ching to answer that question.

On Tuesday night when I had dreamt of the old building, many other objects were there too. Part of that was that the workers were doing stuff for me and the bill was unexpected and not what I wanted. I have been doing things around the house, retiling floors and repainting. I could see 62 as pointing to just keep doing that, "the bird returns to the nest," as my book says. Also, at one point, my dad was in the building. He was at the elevator and saw Bruce Springstein and wanted to follow him or something like that. I just realized that your name is Bruce, Candid. Hmmm... Another thing about the dream is when I was in the elevator, if I wanted to get to floor 3, I actually had to go to a higher floor. I thought it was floor 4, but I actually think the floor was 3.5. (As if I had to then walk back down) Could that be that to get where I want to go I actually have to go higher? Possible. What do you think, or is dream interpetation out of this group's interest.

You guys are great.

[val]

JeanetteIsis...

I just looked at your profile. Is "The Shawshank Redemption" not one of the best movies ever? The story was excellent. The directing, acting, art direction...were all excellent.

Regarding anxiety and no mistakes, when I threw the coins, I was focused on you and your contemplation of reconciliation. I don't know enough about reading the I Ching for others though. This was my first attempt. Although my initial thought is that it addressed my question for you, it is entirely possible, in that it is aware the question of your husband having sex with the other woman is important to you, it addressed that as well.

If you strongly feel that's what it was saying...in your gut, then go with it. At any rate, if I were in your position, I'd take them at their word.

Ciao for now,

Val

[candid]

'Cuz tramps like us, baby we were born to runnnnnn!' http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif heh heh

AND let us not forget, Isis, to enjoy the moment in laughter or meditation. That really does mean letting go of the heavy stuff once in awhile. Like Mick said, get your hands in the dirt. Feel the earth beneath you. See if it doesn't ground you. Even lightening needs grounding.

*cranks shovelhead, unfettered engine roars off into the desert*

[mick]

Jeanette,

Dream interpetation is definitely not out of this group's interest. In fact, lots of us are interested in dreams. I'm a dream interpreter and dreams are often discussed here.

There's a big link between dreams and the I Ching.

Just some thoughts about the name Bruce Springsteen, leaving aside the man and his music for the moment.

Bruce links to Scotland. Do you have any Scottish links in your family? Are you interested in Celtic mythology at all?

Robert the Bruce was a great Scots leader who defeated the English and played a big role in Scotland being recognised as an independent nation.

Scotland represents Britain before the Romans came. It's the old religion, the old pagan ways.

The famous story of Robert the Bruce is how he retreated from the battlefield into a cave and comtemplated defeat.

In the cave he saw a spider spinning her web. He noticed that even though she was left dangling by a single thread, she never gave up trying to spin her web over and over again.

Inspired, he led his forces to victory.

I don't speak Dutch (maybe LiSe can help me out here) but Springsteen makes me think off a stepping-stone. Spring is to jump and steen is a stone.

So Springsteen could represent a point of transition, a jumping-off point.

Putting the name together your creative mind has come up with a wonderful image for your life at the moment, Bruce Springsteen.

Be inspired like the great Scots warrior and never give up. Recognise that you are in a period of transition now and that this is a stepping-stone towards a new period of fulfillment and deeper spiritual awareness in your life.

Best wishes,

Mick
http://www.north-node.com/dreams

[heylise]

Mick, your Dutch is perfect.
Enjoying all these great interpretations.
LiSe

[candid]

Isis - Ok, this is reaching a little bit, but since we're exploring numbers in dreams correlating with hexagram numbers:

Concerning your elevator dream - "I thought it was floor 4, but I actually think the floor was 3.5." In Ching speak, 4 is Youthful Folly (Wilhelm) and 3 with change in the 5th place (3.5) means, Difficulty In Blessing. Could it be that you think that you are being foolish or should second guess yourself (4), but actually are beset with initial difficulty and confusion(3.5)? According to Wilhelm, "It is only through faithful and conscientious work, unobtrusively carried on, that the situation gradually clears up and the hindrance disappears." This again is characteristic of 62, attention to the details involved. 3.5 could also imply not being understood completely, or having your intentions misconstrued by someone.

I must also point out the possibility that you may be misconstruing your husband's actions with this other woman. Not saying this is true, only that's its a possibility I must present to you. You are the one involved in this, not Val, Mick or myself. You have to be brutally honest with yourself in this.

Take care,
Candid

[candid]

Isis - I'm wondering what his story is on all this. To council one of a couple can be dangerous without knowing both sides of the story. Has he by chance expressed any sense of oppression in all of this? Has his judgment seemed clouded in other areas while this was going on? Has he seemed restless in other areas? Or possibly confused? If so, its possible this flirtation may have been prompted by his own state of inner uncertainty and frustration.

I don't mean to waffle on you here, but a marriage is serious business to interpret. I've stated here before that part of interpreting for someone includes having the courage to be wrong. Being wrong is only disastrous when the interpreter is obstinate about being in the right. In this case, I'm still uncertain. I don't know both sides of the story.

Any further light you can shed?

BTW, I'm working today and will be away from my computer. If you don't receive a quick response to your posts today, that's why. I'll check when I return home.

Hang in there.
Candid

[jeanetteisis]

You guys are great. I really do appreciate this. Mick, I think you could have the Bruce Springstein thing pinned. That sounds like where I am at. Yet, my dad wanted to follow him. My dad who had an affair about 15 years ago but returned home. I hope that is not me wishing but an actual prophecy relating to my husband. Sigh.

I would like to add more tomorrow. More reflections, more dreams. Hopefully those following will see something in their own dreams. On another website, they said that all you have to do is ask yourself for guidance through your dreams. Of course individual results may vary!

Thank you so much,
Jeanette

[heylise]

3,5 is a very important number. It has to do with the wholeness of your soul. I have seen it in Jung, and I will try to find it back.
In Plato's Timaios he says: one, two, three, Timaios, but where is the fouth? This is the same one as the 3.5, if I am right.
It is about finding the shadow.
LiSe

[jeanetteisis]

Hi all,

LiSe, I didn't quite get what you were saying but it seems you are going to come back to that.

Candid, yes, I have questioned if I am just stupid for believing this can be fixed, or that I have been fooling myself with all of the dreams and synchronisity. I find that there are incidences from childhood that speak to the situation now. It all seems to tie together and it all appear to support this marriage coming back together. But if what not? Then I will feel foolish and that I don't understand and that scares me perhaps more than losing Rick.

I read my book and it seems very clear on what I have been feeling, the self-doubt, 3,5 says "darkness distorts your light. Avoid attempting to force a completion. Go slowly, methodically, and with quiet balance."

Last night I dreamt about the numbers either 9500 or 95000 and 75000. I was at someone's house as if staying there and was listening to the daughter talk on the phone about how much one fake breast would cost, and then was saying "can you believe he is going to give me all of that 75,000 (as if a salary)" They seemed poor or down on their luck. I was having a problem because I think I had a diaper on or maybe just underwear and there was poop in it and I needed privacy in the bathroom, but one of them the sink was overflowing with water and had two gloves floating in it made out of very light guaze so that when wet and picked up you couldn't even see the shape. It seems that I picked up a white one and a black one. Perhaps it was also supposed to function as the toilet, but the drain wasn't big enough for me to take care of my problem. I remember the mom was on the phone with someone standing by her and said something like "is Gail with (I don't remember who, maybe a child).

I have so many dreams that I could discuss. Sewage has been a central theme for me throughout my marriage. Except it was always like in some public restroom or facility, never on me or in my house. And it was always on the floor or stopped up in the toilet and on the floor and it was always a feeling of being careful stepping in it. It feels like this is the sewage, these marriage problems. Interestingly, when we were in Venice getting married, there was a little cafe where I used the restroom and the toilet was just a bowl on the floor with a drain. It raised above the floor about an inch. Try hovering over that. So that is how we even started, with that weird toilet. Hmmm...

I have another name that is haunting me. I am realizing that some things were implanted in my childhood. Things that are vivid now or whatever. I will write later and tell you about what I called our pantry.

Thanks again,
Jeanette

[candid]

Jeanette - Seems like your dream was saying, how do I get out of this mess? White and black gloves - I must decide. On one hand there is ___, but on the other hand there is ___. The gloves appear unusable and you were still unable to clean up the mess. The one fake breast - you feel inadequate as a woman. Not unusual for a woman who suspects her mate of having another (more attractive?) girlfriend. The 75,000 (or so) seemed like a salary or possibly a settlement. Might that express your financial concerns if you were to proceed with a divorce? They were poor and down on their luck. I'd say the overall theme of the dream was humiliation.

Candid

[heylise]

I tried to find where I had seen 3,5, but Jung wrote such big books, it was an impossible search.

Three has to do with idea and will, so I think 3,5 is the stage between the one-sidedness of consciousness, with its intentions and goals, and the whole-ness when one can assimilate the shadow.

If I find something, I will mail it.

LiSe

[jeanetteisis]

Well, I didn't look at that dream that way, Candid, but I can see that. By the way Mick, I find it interesting that Bruce Springsteen was in my dream and I wouldn't have been able to use your useful interpretation unless I already knew you were going to give it to me. Mind-boggling.

About this other woman, when my ego raises up I say that she is a shadow of a woman compared to me. She is mousy-cute but that is about it. I had wondered what I was trying to tell myself with the fake breast thing since I am about a C cup and she's lucky if she is an A. Regardless of that, I really don't know what my husband is thinking therefore I would like to believe that he is going through some sort of crisis since I can't even imagine how those two work.

But yes it is humiliating, especially since she is a "nothing." I see the money clue, do you think they were also changing lines, I looked and they seemed to line up with everything else I heard. Perhaps I was looking for other interpretation of those lines.

Here is something interesting. The originator of this site is Hilary. A couple of days ago I walked by the TV and I had the Animal Planet channel on. Some woman said, "I guess I met Hilary through the horses." I have a number significance that keeps popping up and at one point the Breeder's Cup or one of those races was going on here in Chicago and the horse for that number's name was significant to me. I thought it was all one big long synchronisity. Now Hilary. Hmmmm.

Thanks again,
Jeanette

[suzy]

Hi, Jeanette. I've just returned to the forum after an absence, and have been reading up on some of the new threads, including yours. First of all, welcome to clarity! These are wonderful people here, as you are discovering. A few other comments and thoughts:

I, too, have the Brian Browne Walker version. It's my second favorite "interpretive" version (not translation) of the I Ching, after Sarah Dening's. You may have already figured this out, but the actual I Ching is a very old, very obscure, cryptic, and surprisingly brief set of texts. Only fearless types like Lise try to read the original Chinese! When you buy the I Ching in English, you're either going to get a translation (i.e., Wilhelm), or an "interpretive" version like Walker's. My personal opinion is that when you're just starting out, a straight translation is too obscure. I spent my first year with the I Ching reading just a translation, and I had absolutely no clue what was going on. Flying geese, yellow belts, who knew? Walker does a nice job of explaining what it MEANS. Dening is even better. Later, once you're more familiar with the I Ching, you will want to get as close to the original text as you can (at least that's what seems to happen with most people). You won't want anybody between you and the hexagram.

If your bookstore has it, I would also recommend the Richard Gill version. That is actually my all time favorite version of the I Ching. It's sort of a loose translation -- no wordier than Wilhelm, but more accessible.

Enough about books. Jeanette, I deeply sympathize with your situation. I've been there, as have so many women at some point in our lives. It is almost impossible to stop thinking about what he is doing, why he is with her, whether he might come back, etc. etc. etc. etc. The brain buzzes and aches. Alas, what you need to do is exactly what hex 36 recommended (and I'm quoting from Walker): "Step aside, yield, let go, allow people and events to pass without attachment. Direct your attention inside, to YOUR inner light, YOUR devotion to what is right, YOUR conversation with the Higher Power."

The I Ching is the best friend you could possibly have right now. It is speaking directly to you. I would suggest you read and re-read Walker's text on hexagram 36 -- and then read it again. It's not about him, or HER, or whether he'll come back, or any of that. It's about you. Calm down and travel inside yourself. Have a conversation with the I ching. Ask it, "how can I turn my attention inward? how can I accept this darkening of the light?" Study the answer, then pose another question. Then another, and another. Read the answers carefully, hear what they are saying. Let yourself be drawn into the healing dialogue. If you want to, ask "how can I win him back?" Or "will he come back?" Ask it that a million times if you feel like it. It will not hurt to pose these questions -- it will relieve your nervous anxiety, and the I Ching will gently but surely guide you back to the state of mind you need to be in.

No matter what happens, you will survive. I promise. If your husband decides to come back, and you can rebuild your marriage, great. If not, great too. I mean that. No woman (or man for that matter) ever believes it while it's happening, but you'll be fine. The day will come when you realize how much better your life turned out without him -- yes! It's true! The pain you're feeling now will just be a memory. The trick is just to hang on and take care of yourself until that future day arrives. I remember, when I was going through what you're going through, saying to my father, "I wish I could speed up time. I know that time heals all wounds, and someday, SOMEday, I will not hurt like this. I just want that day to come." Well, it did -- and sooner than I expected.

One other thing: I also have sewage dreams! I have a recurring nightmare about having to use a public toilet that is all stopped up and won't flush! Ick!

Best wishes,

Suzy