Career Direction/Help

[malka]

Well, no boyfriend and no job, and that's only the beginning of what 2003 has had in store for me so far. In many ways, this year has been a time of stripping away everything and leaving me with myself (gulp!) and although I'm not sure why...I trust that at some appropriate point more of the story will be revealed to me. I hope.

While I turn my attention towards work and stablizing my finances, I asked a couple quesitons of Yi. Darn, I really wish the answers had been the more clear-cut responses! But I've got what I've got. As backgorund, my training and experience are in two distinct areas. I'm at this point not feeling any more pulled in one direction than the other. I'm pursuing work in both directions, because I'm qualified, and because when you've been unemployed as long as I have, well, at least I have choose to allow my options to be wide. Also, I'm trusting that Yi, the universe, the part of me that designs my soul's cirricula, will lead me to the appropriate path. But because neither of these paths have been very fruitful in the last 14 months, I asked the first question below about my writing (something I've thought about pursuing more seriously, but haven't to date.) I welcome whatever insights or suggestions you wise-ones have to offer.

Question: Tell me about the potential success of me writing and selling my work? 10.3 > 1

My new book calls 10 Taking Risky Action. Whoa, I get that message! Then line 3 says, "He acts strongly and possibly unwisely, by risregarding the limitations of the situation. Therefore, it is easy for him to be harmed." I'm assuming this means I wouldn't take into account the difficulty of earning a living at writing. But then, the change is to 1, which my book is calling Acting Fiercely: "He is acting fiercey, it is beneficial."

Question: What direction should I head in my career? 61.1.3.4 > 44

Wow, 61 has been a huge theme for me this year. I have previously interpreted this to mean "I KNOW ALREADY" but I don't feel I do know. If I did, I would act! And three changing lines is alot. I've previsouly read 61 means Insight, but my new books says Having Limited Allegiance. And then this leads down a painful path to 44 Maintaining His Independance.

Of the possible directions I could go, one is very corporate work, one is in the social service world, and yet another might be working for myself (which I previously did for 10 years) but the work I do myself could fall into either of the two categories above. (Sorry I'm speaking a little in code here, I guess I'm not wanting to put everything about me on the searchable internet!!)

Last, I asked about a particular corporate job I have applied for:

Question: What do I need to know about how my application is being received at WE? 62.3.4 > 2

I did these readings yesterday. Then just today, a place where I have been volunteering for the last 6 months doing the social service related work, has offered me a 4-6 hour per week gig PAID starting in the fall. Obviously, this isn't enough to live on, but if I was going the route of my own business, then it would be okay. Yet I should also say that at the beginning of this year, after 8 months of not finding a job, I mentally initiated my own business again and have received a few projects. But it has NOT really taken off. I feel stuck, and need Yi's help!

HELP!!!

[frandoch]

Hi Malka,

Hehehe - you?re at it again. Only a week or so ago, you said you?d put the ?Yi? away, and here you are again, with your questions, questions, questions.

I went through a period like that. I was the archetypal Hex 4. One day, In Her inimitable way, She let me know that She?d stopped talking to me. I was made aware that She was saying:

?I am a wise, benevolent Being, full of love and compassion. You come to me for advice, which I freely give. You don?t like the advice, so you ignore it, and come back again, for an answer more in keeping with what you THINK you want. Being a loving, compassionate soul, I repeat the advice. Again you don?t like it. And again you ignore it. And again you return with the same question, maybe in a different form, seeking a different answer. Now, this may surprise you, but even a loving, compassionate being can get pissed off with being pestered. GO AWAY!!?

You?re going through a tough time. I?m going to tell you a story - part of Michael?s story.

About six years ago, a 10-year relationship came to an end. It was a good one - well, the first eight years were good - the ninth was downhill, and the tenth was bloody awful. I live in a small village, and my partner and I were at the centre of a large social group. We had a lovely home, about half a mile from the village, with a large barn, where we held parties, discos etc . We held dinner parties. I had a thriving manufacturing business, money was plentiful, life was ?good?. But waiting in the wings was John, a friend, who had been in love with Jane for years. (Not real names)

During year nine, my business started coming under pressure from cheap, subsidised imports from the Far East. Money became a problem, and cracks appeared in the relationship. John saw his chance, and took it. To cut a long story short, Michael was out, and John was in. At the same time, the business went ?belly up?, closing with massive debts. I was facing almost certain bankruptcy, and the slim possibility of being sent to prison.

I moved out, into a bed sit, while I looked for somewhere to live. I rented a house, and moved in. It was empty - and I mean empty. I had a chair that the previous occupant had left. No furniture, no bed, no cooker, kettle, washing machine, phone, and so on. A chair and a sleeping bag. It was the start of a long cold winter, and it can get very cold up on the moors. I couldn?t afford heating, I had very little food, and all ?our? friends became ?their? friends. They didn?t know how to handle me, so they avoided me.

I was living in extreme poverty, without companionship. I WAS ALONE. The first 18 months were bad. There I was, 60 yrs old, facing the terrifying prospect of possibly living on my own for the rest of my life - and I didn?t even like me.

The following four and a half years have been a massive learning curve, and looking back, this period has been the most fruitful period of my life. I now wake up every day thinking ?WOW - I?m alive.? It?s pure joy. I NEVER have a down day. Life is very precious. I have peace of mind - that internal place where nothing can harm me. Whatever rocks the gods throw at me - and I?ve had more than my share _ in fact, they used me for target practice - and they are marksmen, I?m happy.

I?ve learned the most important lesson - total acceptance of ?What Is?. No resistance, just letting it unfold - gradually realising that it?s perfection, even when my ego judges it to be bad. I?ve learned to step back and watch - watch how I respond - and frequently smile when I?m being a twat.

Because of this, because of how I?ve changed, my life is changing in so many ways. You see, you can?t change the Outer World - but you can change the way you think, the Inner World, and THAT will change the Outer World. You truly are a co-creator of your reality.

Stop asking your questions. Don?t put the book away. Use it differently. Whenever you feel like it - and especially when you don?t - just pick it up, open it at any page, and there you?ll find wisdom - there you?ll discover that She is talking to you, because you?re no longer pestering her - you?ll have opened up.

Lots of love,

Michael.

[candid]

Malka,

Its sounds as though you are chasing the symptoms rather than the cause or root of your discontentment: If only I had the right job, if only I had certain knowledge of my future, if only I knew the right course of action - Then everything will be right with my world.

This lays the burden of responsibility onto external circumstances. As a result, the weak follows the strong and worries it (10).

This then creates a needy and desperate mind-set: 44. You are willing to compromise in order to achieve your ends, even though your desired ends are unknown to you.

Yi then points you to 61, to find your own inner truth.

Yi then suggests you begin your road to recovery by paying attention to small opportunities: 62. And behold, the following day a small opportunity comes to you due to your receptivity: 2.

Things are on track even if you feel as though you are lost. You are not lost, neither are you alone, as it may appear. You are in transit to something new. Perhaps you might stop asking: where are we going and are we there yet? No, you are not there yet, nor will you ever arrive at a finish line.

Michael's words come from hard won experience, which I admire and respect: "You see, you can?t change the Outer World - but you can change the way you think, the Inner World, and THAT will change the Outer World. You truly are a co-creator of your reality."

You draw to you that which you have prepared to receive. Put aside your contesting with fate(10), seek your inner truth (61) and work in small ways to reestablish your path (62).

Candid

[martin]

Hi Malka,

A few thoughts on your hexagrams ...

10 to 1:
I often received 10 when I was venturing out on my own. In an independent position (away from the herd, so to speak) one is more vulnerable, but the text suggests that the risk is acceptable (the tiger will not bite).
hexagram 1 in the background seems to say that there is a lot of (not yet realized) creative potential in your writing. Perhaps it's good to give it a try, quite apart from the possibility of selling your work. Writing may open up new channels.

61 to 44:
I would read it as: try to find work that feels good for you. Stay close to what you feel. Inner values are more important than outer considerations. For example, a job that resonates with who you are but doesn't pay very well might be better (for you and others) than a job that doesn't feel exactly right for you but pays more.
Another meaning (of 61) is perhaps: look for work that involves a lot of (personal, more or less intimate) communication with others.
I read 44 in the background as: Don't accept everything. Be selective. Not every job is good for you. And: be careful if you feel that the atmosphere is potentially poisoning.

61 to 2:
I have to be careful here because your question is a little bit complicated. Anyway, I read 62 as: don't try to fly too high, don't be overly ambitious. And 2: leave the initiative to others, be receptive, if fact you don't need to do much, they will lead you.

Hope this makes some sense, Malka.
I've read what has happened and I am with you,

All the best,

Martin

[martin]

Another thought ..

I see now (I usually don't read the lines) that the tiger _does_ bite in line 3 of 10!
At least according to Legge.
But I don't believe that writing could be that dangerous. Perhaps this line relates to earning a living as a writer, as you said.
The tiger may bite a hole in your purse ...

Martin

[hilary]

Malka, bless you, what on earth is this new book you've got?? Hexagram 10 does very often mean Taking Risky Action, and Hexagram 1 might every now and then mean Acting Fiercely, I don't know. But that's not what either of them is. If Yi is to come off the shelf, at least give the poor old book a chance and find yourself a real translation!

Hexagram 10 is Treading, and it talks about 'Treading the tiger's tail'. Apart from making you sit up and take notice, this just means more than 'taking risky action'. Ugh!

The tiger is creative, a source of fertility, a potentially protective spirit - that might well turn round and devour you. You need to learn ways to move with it: writing could well be one of them. But as Martin said, in line 3 the tiger bites.

'With one eye, can see.
Lame, can still tread.
Treading a tiger's tail,
It mauls people. Pitfall.
Soldier acting like a great leader.'

I like Wu Jing Nuan's idea on this line: that there are things you just can't see from your current, limited point of view, and trying to take command and launch great schemes - or run great risks - from this position is not good. Perhaps the soldier's perspective is too involved in day-to-day struggles to be planning new campaigns.

No bright ideas about the other two readings as yet... will let you know if inspiration visits.

[malka]

You've all offered me much to consider. Some thoughts:

Frandoch, I appreciate you sharing your tender story. I also am glad we "know" each other well enough for you to push me to remember what I wrote a week ago, about putting away Yi for awhile! I guess I wasn't specific enough: I meant to put it away as far as grasping to understand my relationship. I never agreed to put it away, away! However, it is true that I sometimes turn to the book from a place of fear, anxiety, etc. and even at times or at moments when I'm most disconnected from myself. Sometimes Yi has helped me to re-connect with myself, often by telling me what I already knew to be true.

At this time, I feel at a loss in terms of inner guidence with my career. I am confident that I am very talented, bright, and have much to offer no matter where I end up. The issue for me, is where is that place? I have made an assumption here that IF I was more connected inside, then the OUTSIDE opportunities would surface. And so my quest is for the inner knowing.

Candid, I'm interested by your view that I'm chasing symptoms, and I'll need to sit with that one for awhile. It's certainly not my intention nor is it my conscious thinking. The "lack" if there is one, is not in the loss of the job or the loss of the boyfriend. I see the lack as the disconnection within myself of what's really right for me. That's why I've turned to Yi for some guidance.

Perhaps the only question I should really look closely towards is one about my career direction, and not be so concerned about the specific questions about writing or about one particular job application. 61>44 might be the place for me to rest for awhile. You do correctly sense my impatience (well, can 14 months really be called impatience?) and it's more about impatience with myself. I do not feel lost, as you suggest, although I do beleive there is something I must not be aware of otherwise I would have the capacity to be more clear about next steps.

Martin, your reading of 61>44 is probably correct, and it's also my biggest nightmare! I KNOW that I must go with what's right for me inside. I KNOW that not everything could work for me and that I need to be selective. I KNOW that everything is going to be okay. It's just this very path that I seem to be struggling with fulfilling. I beleive it, but I am not experiencing it.

Hilary, my new book is called "I Ching for a New Age: The Book of Answers for Changing Times" by Robert G. Benson. I bought it because he goes into a bit of detail about the lines, and I'm trying to learn lines. But please let me know how to identify bad Yi books when needed.

[val]

Malka...

I haven't slept on your questions and answers yet...but the first thought that came to mind was...Intuitive Psychologist! That, of course, led me to the idea that social services would seem a direction you could excel in and reap a great deal of satisfaction...especially if you can accomplish even an nth of what you helped me accomplish tonight. So...

I took the liberty of asking the Yi about social work for you, and the answer was...interestingly...2/3.4 to 62. Hmmmmm

I'd love to know how you and others feel about the relationship between the 62 to 2 and 2 to 62.

Good night and sweat dreams,

Val

[malka]

Val, again, thank you for thinking of my dilemma during your very important evening! I'm unsure about this flipped 2/62 and 62/2 relationship. Perhaps someone can shed some light on it all.

As for your "Intuitive Psychologist" suggestion...well, yes, essentially something similar is one option for me. The work is very satisfing for me and I am good at it. Where I get a little stuck is with the "healthcare industry" which generally (not totally) is an awlful place to be.

I am praying for my own self-patience, and for my own capacity to see and know my appopriate life's work and direction. While I do know the general two areas I enjoy, am good at, and have trained for, there just have not been opportunities. The universe hasn't been meeting me half way, so to speak.

I beleive in emotional honesty, and so for myself I need to put out here the other factor that has been stirring in my life these recent months. In March, while I was in my own therapy session and doing EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reporocessing - see www.emdr.com) I saw, felt, and smelled clear as day the molestation that I experienced as a young girl. My processing of this memory has taken considerable energy and space. I have, in many ways, been grateful to NOT be in full-time employment these last few months.

The healing continues. The recognition of the ways I stop my process in life just as life stopped, and I was confused, during the molestation. So when I express impatience with myself over not being able to hear myself more clearly about life direction (for I do hear and know myself very clearly in so many other ways) it is also a struggle with my history.

Thank you for listening.

[val]

Malka...

I have a few minutes before I have to get ready for work...which is something I have to do to be the survivor that Michael F. (*grin*) talked about in the other thread.

I just want you to know that I went through the biggest emotions seven years ago. This is my time to face those other left-over emotions that aren't quite as scary having been through and survived the experience seven years ago, so I'll be okay.

Many years after a therapist tried to help bring the feelings to the surface (most the memories were there, except for those times I fugued), but the feelings that I buried for my own survival remained buried (quite alive) deep in a brick crypt. It took a trigger experience in the workplace to bring them up. Not a week into a brand new job, my new boss called me into his office, grabbed me and kissed me with a kiss that was exactly like that first suffocating kiss that I thought would kill me as an 11-year old...

And that began about five months of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which ended with me recounting my childhood experience and telling him he was no less a monster than they were...which was immediately followed by the first eruption of emotions of many that lasted for several more months.

Almost from the outset of his sexual advances, my work was impaired by the PTSD. I was trying desperately to find another job...in the throes of the PSTD...getting medical attention for the symptoms...and getting legal counselling for solving the problem his predatory behavior was causing in the workplace (I learned through the process that I was, at the very least, his ninth victim). It was a very stressful time to say the least.

I worked for five full months with increasing PTSD symptoms, and when the eruptions finally began I was so totally incapacitated my doctor put me on disability. It was another year almost before I felt like I could venture back into the workplace, and I wasn't even sure then. I had a very strong fear of male employers in spite of the fact this was the first such incident in my entire long worklife. So...Malka...

I can relate. I understand. Not a lot of people can. It's a 'you-had-to-be-there' and a 'I-pray-to-God-you-haven't!' kind of thing.

More later...time to go. I'm going to open a thread in the 'Open Space' room to address more about your healing process and the energy it requires, but I'll back here with my feelings on your reading.

I love you.

Val

[malka]

Val,

I appreciate your sharing and I'm happy to listen to your story. Starting another thread for this sounds appropriate. However, I'm not comfortable reading your words: "I'm going to open a thread in the 'Open Space' roon to address more about YOUR healing process and the energy it requires."

Kindly only open this thread if YOU wish to explore YOUR process further. I do not need, nor am I asking you, to help me with mine. I wrote what I wrote above in the context of relating to my question of Yi about my career direction. I need to be honest with myself that when I get an answer like 61, where and how the process of my knowing my inner truth might be getting short-circuited a little, and what the totallity is that I'm moving through just now that does affect my emotional space for work, etc. So, I've only shared my story on this board, and in this thread, it in that context.

Also, although we share a similar experience, the similarity ends there. Everyone moves through this kind of experience in a different way as a result of all the other factors of their life history. For example, I do not have PTSD, I have not been re-traumatized as an adult in the fashion you experienced, and my processing of my emotions is entirely different than yours. So please, while I know your intentions are honorable, kindly do not make assuptions about what this time is like for me or what it is that I may need.

I'd like to keep this thread about understanding where Yi is sending my career direction, 61>44. Thank you. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[val]

Hi Malka...

I'm sorry if you misunderstood. I didn't say I wanted to help you. I said 'address...' I had questions. And I'm not sure I really meant YOUR healing process. It just so happens that I do mix pronouns and article when I'm rushing or just waking, as was the case this morning. However, I don't know if I did this morning...I was rushing. I can't really remember. And a lot has happened since then.

The interesting thing is I don't do 'help'...not unsolicited. I don't say I want to help...hope this helps...none of that. And I didn't say that in my post. And that certainly wasn't my intention. Although I don't mind helping if asked if I'm in a position to do so.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

[lilian]

Hi Malka

If you don't know them already, you might want to look at these books. They might help you in finding inner guidance and connectedness (not only for your career):

Writing the Mind Alive (Linda Trichter Metcalf and Tobin Simon)
At a Journal Workshop (Ira Progoff)

A while ago, in another thread you mentioned a few wonderful books about "being in the present". So I thought it was ok to share a tip other than YiJing.

[malka]

Thanks Lilian. I'm an advid journal writer, I've kept a journal for over 20 years! Just a place for me to explore, and also the place I keep my Yi questions and readings. I appreciate your suggestions.

As for the update on the specific job I applied for and asked Yi about: I didn't get an interview as they don't feel I have the appropriate experience for the role. But, they have forwarded my resume to another department in the company where they feel I would be right. Unfortunately, there is no opening there at this time.

Anyway, I had received 62>2 for this questions and I think the real life outcome is pretty interesting!

[malka]

Well, a miracle today. My old job, the one that I left three years ago (that move got me into this mess I'm in now, hehe) is open! I called my former boss and learned she is on vacation until next week. And so I called the internal recruiter to let her know I was interested in returning. I've never met this woman, but her reception was rather cold. "You'll have to send in your resume like everyone else" she tells me. Etc.

Anyway, I asked Yi, "What about the MV job and me?" just to get some general info about the scenario. Answer: 23 Splitting Apart with 5 & 6 changing to 8, Holding Together!

Your wisdom appreciated! Frandoch, I'd especially love your book's view on this pair. Thanks!

[frandoch]

Hi Malka

She may not have been 'cold'. It is often policy to advertise posts, even when a particular person is being considered. In some places, particularly where public service is involved, it's a legal requirement. She may just be going through the usual motions.

Can you let me know what lines you wanted me to look at for you - save me searching for the post.

To save cluttering the thread, I'll email you the whole of 23.5.6 to 8, unless anyone else wants to read it. I'll post it if asked.

[malka]

Frandoch - a very belated "thank you" for sending me the text from your book. It's quite lovely and I'm looking forward to being able to purchase a full copy when you're ready!

The surprising ending to the possibility of my getting my old job: my former boss returned from vacation on Monday. I didn't expect to hear from her immediately, but based upon who I beleive her to be, I did expect that I'd hear from her directly. The voicemail I left her was asking if she beleived it made sense for us to consider this, that I'd like to talk. Considering that when I left this position three years ago I was specifically told I would always be welcomed back. In fact, this is a large organization where people commonly return. Well...

I was called by the recruiter today, a woman I've never met, that "the team" had decided to hire the internal candidate. I replied a simple, "Thanks for letting me know."

I accept not being hired, but I was shocked and amazed that my former boss avoided any dialogue with me whatsoever. Very odd and not what I expected.

All this does leave me a little curious about hex 8. Twice now, I've received 8 as my changed hexagram, and both times the situaiton resulted in a type of rejection. (first 55>8 and then 23>8) and yet isn't 8 about union, holding together? So what does this mean? I'm puzzled.

Thanks for listening,
Malka

[malka]

Everyone,

I'm soliciting your thoughts about 8 as I remain a little fuzzy. It's called "Union" and "Holding Together" but some say that it isn't meant to be romantic, it's not coupling, so just what is this strange thing known as hexagram 8?

I would love to learn about people's real-life experience with 8. Or, maybe I should just start a new thread?

Thank you!
Malka

[malka]

Val, I know you and I have "talked" offline and so we both know what each other meant/intended in the above exchange and all is well. But I'm re-reading it now and just want to say "thank you" again for being a fellow traveler. I'm glad we met. And - I'm grateful for everyone I've "met" on this forum.

Blessings,
Malka

[chrislofting]

Hi Malka,

You wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I'm soliciting your thoughts about 8 as I remain a little
> fuzzy. It's called "Union" and "Holding Together" but some
> say that it isn't meant to be romantic, it's not coupling,
> so just what is this strange thing known as hexagram 8?
>

Some basic points re 08:

the base trigram sets a context of devotion. the top trigram sets a text of containment/control operating in the context. Overall this is a group focus, in *extreme* like a religous cult etc. The 'love' is for 'jesus' or 'islam' or 'heaven's gate UFO' or a soccer team etc etc

In the binary sequence of the I Ching 8 pairs with 20 where the focus in 20 is on admiration of someone/something acting to motivate etc In 08 the focus is more on a group.

The overall, *generic*, characteristics of hex 8 are made-up of mixing the qualities of 20 with the qualities of 42, augmentation (increase) and so we can get into concepts of 'transcending' etc., but the focus on the group allows for control.

Hexagram 08 opposes hex 14 where the passivity of 08 is now active, there is a core sense of direction, focus on development and explicit core leadership etc.

hexagram 08 pairs with hex 07 in the traditional sequence, reflecting the overall 'collective' focus but in 07 the focus is strongly imposed, one does not necessarily give one self 'willingly' to uniformity ;-)

In the traditional sequence hexagram 08 opposes 57 where the possible 'spontaneous conversion' nature of 08 is stretched-out to be a need for cultivation, time, etc.

The ERANOS text gives us "PI : order things and put them in classes, compare and select; find what you belong with; compare, sort, examine correspondances; select and harmonize; unite. The ideogram: person who stops walking, looking around to examine and compare."

The focus on 'belonging' reflects the 'collective' nature of hex 08 as a group focus and from that the possible development of a cult perspective (the influence of 20, the admiration of someone, the 'being an example' [the negative aspect of 20 is being made an example as in public punishment etc]. The overall sense of establishing 'order' of some form reflects the relationship to the concepts of uniformity etc as we see in the paired hexagram of 07. (cults can often adopt a specific dress code that reflects the uniformity found in the military etc)

Note that in the realm of emotions, devotion has its roots in fear where we need to recruit the context to aid us in establishing identity, or more so protecting what we have (and so augmenting it through the activity of the collective, the mentioned need for a sense of 'belonging' and that sense acting to 'ground' oneself, to use that grounding to protect etc - protection in numbers leads to the exploitation of that protection in the form of asserting personal identity)

Chris.

[martin]

Hi Malka,

When hexagram 8 appears the message that I hear is: don't try to control it, let it unfold, give space.
With this hexagram I often noticed that what happens has a dreamlike quality.
Like a lucid dream. Or like a deja vu. And the mind may wonder: is this really happening?

I don't know why.
Perhaps there is a connection between the fifth line (the only yang line in this hexagram) and the fifth chakra, the "third eye". When that "eye" is (over)active things are in a sense very real (rich colors, enhanced three-dimensional perspective, etcetera) but not very solid. They are more or less transparent and luminous. So they seem real and unreal at the same time.

[martin]

Oops ...
The third eye is the sixth chakra, not the fifth.
Yet the experiences that I had with hexagram 8 often seemed to fit in with "(over)active third eye".

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif

[bradford_h]

Interesting spread of opinions here on the chakras.
I personally would give hex8, with it's emphasis on the familial, the forces of attraction, and feeling or intuiting one's way, to the fourth or heart chakra, viz also the center of Kan (heart) in the ruling place.
B

[martin]

To me Kan also suggests a closed eye, as opposed to Li, an open eye.
Closed eye, inward looking eye, "third eye"?
And Kan is related to the moon, the light of the night, the feeling-intuition-instinct that guides us when we cannot (or prefer not to) use our physical eyes.
The moon links to the (personal) soul, which is sometimes called "heart".

Hmmm, this is nice exercise in what could be called "poetical science". http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[malka]

Chris,

You wrote:

"The ERANOS text gives us "PI : order things and put them in classes, compare and select; find what you belong with; compare, sort, examine correspondances; select and harmonize; unite. The ideogram: person who stops walking, looking around to examine and compare.""

In thinking about the two recent circumstances where I received 8, first regarding my lover's reaction if I sent a letter (55>8) and then regarding what was happening with my application for my old job (23>8) and both of these situations ended in rejection. There was no uniting. But perhaps in the situations the others were engaging in, "compare, sort, examine correspondances; select and harmonize" and I just wasn't selected?

I don't want to fall into the trap of trying to PROVE that Yi was correct, and I certainly don't want to force anything, but I DO want to use my experiences to expand my knowing and understanding of Yi. Therefore, if and when I miss something in a reading I wish to understand what that may have been.

Would you agree, then, that 8 is describing the process of coming to a place of uniting, but that it doesn't necessarily mean the diviner will be selected? Rather, that there is "selecting happening" in the situation?

In peace,
Malka

[malka]

Martin,

You wrote:

"With this hexagram I often noticed that what happens has a dreamlike quality."

Yep, that's similar to what happened with me these two times I received 8, but it probably was also that I was SURPRISED by the rejected outcome (my lover choose to call it quites for now, my old job was given to someone else - a current internal candidate.) I did feel a little surreal in reaction to both, and there was also probably some selecting, comparing, sorting happening in both situations just as Chris discusses above. But I'm not sure that I'm getting the intuition piece so far in my experiences with 8, unless in my situations it was the other people involved who were having the intuition!


Bradford,

Can you speak more baout your learning that 8 is also about attraction? I haven't come across this.

Thank you,
Malka

[heylise]

When the Great Yu had conquered the flood, he called all chiefs together. They are the clan?s heads, and to some degree autonomous. In that time maybe even quite independent. But he wanted all to join their efforts to prevent or conquer future floods.
So it is the base of social alliance. Maybe we owe our taxes to Yu?
One chief came late, and he cut off his head (see hex.8 top line)
Have to run,
LiSe

[heylise]

Had to laugh after I read it myself - have to run to a meeting ... Don't want to lose my head.

[martin]

Hi Malka,

Another thought - the second hexagram of a reading (hexagram 8 in this case) doesn't necessarily reflect a future development. Sometimes it seems to reflect the question or the situation about which we are asking a question (there are other possibilities).
One way to read 23 to 8 is: the question is about 8 (union), the answer is 23 (splitting apart).
If (if!) that is the correct reading there is apparently a problem with this "union".
In this case 23 might indicate a difficult selection procedure.
If the question was "will the union take place? (will I get the job?)" then the answer that I hear is "Maybe not, anyway, it's not easy".

But is this the correct reading? That's one problem: how to interpret the second hexagram?

The other problem is: how to interpret the lines? Here lines 5 and 6 of hexagram 23 are changing and the messages of these lines seem to be more optimistic than the message of hexagram 23 as a whole.
But .. there are two changing lines. How to interpret multiple lines? We have talked about that in other threads and as far as I know there is as yet no consensus on this issue.
And how important are the changing lines? Should they be "believed" if they contradict the meanings of the hexagrams? My answer is "no", in most cases. Others will say "yes".
Again no consensus.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/spin.gif

[chrislofting]

Hi Malka,

Some questions:

(1) What is the I Ching to you? when you derive a hexagram through tossing coins or yarrow sticks etc etc what do YOU think is happening?

(2) If you would care to read http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/linecomms.html and consider my comments on interpretations of changing lines, and so of change in general etc, how would you interpret the two results you got from the questions you asked? (i.e. 55->08 reflects not a change but an exaggeration of 55).

(3) What do you get when, using your original questions as context, you use the proactive IC? http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/lofting/proact3.html

Chris.

[theoldman]

For Malka,

As I?ve just joined this forum and don?t follow all this thread, so I have no idea how the outcome of it. But below is my answer to your question:

- Question: Tell me about the potential success of me writing and selling my work? 10.3 > 1

Yes, but not now. Now you have to desist and store up, caretake, gather knowledge, improve yourself and wait for the right moment.

- Question: What direction should I head in my career? 61.1.3.4 > 44
A career that comform between what is outside and what is inside of yours. Yes, Inner truth, be prepare.

- Question: What do I need to know about how my application is being received at WE? 62.3.4 > 2

Get rid of your ego, find a common purpose and join the other people. If something has keeping you from working with others,it is the time to face the problem.


-Anyway, I asked Yi, "What about the MV job and me?" just to get some general info about the scenario. Answer: 23 Splitting Apart with 5 & 6 changing to 8, Holding Together!

You are engage in something ambitious. You tend to face a situation that make youself feel pain. It likes an impasse. So what you have to do is gather helper (in which you already did in this forum).

Hope it help you a bit.

[malka]

Thank you everyone for the latest posts. I've been unavailable - a friend died this week. Will read your feedback more closely and respond this weekend. Thank you!