Interesting link - chinese prediction of 2005 in hindsight...

[soshin]

I would say, 70% right, at least the part about Asia which is close to 100%.

http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=498&fArticleId=2361884

Namaste,

Soshin

[bruce]

I would say utter tripe.

"While the US will be seized by terror in 2005, Asia will be an oasis and Asian countries will enjoy peace and stability." Last I checked, 2005 is over, and I haven't witnessed a seize of terror, only more flurries of partisan politics. (Of which this report is obviously far left of center.)

"Osama bin Laden did not launch the attacks before the US presidential election because he was waiting for the election result," he said. ?If John Kerry had won, bin Laden would have adopted different tactics, but since Bush had won, he would launch the attacks.? You?ve got to be kidding. Bill Clinton was president during the first World Trade Center bombing. As though radical Islam would care who is president.

[soshin]

ALthough I am not sure this is worth the bandwith spent I pst the article of a soutafrican newspaper here:

(In full)

Astrologer predicts year of attacks for US

January 3, 2005

A Taiwanese astrologer has predicted that 2005 will be a year of bloodshed for the United States, but peace between Taiwan and China.

"Terrorism will reach its peak in 2005 so the US will suffer more deadly terrorist attacks than the September 11 attack," Professor Yu Hsueh-hung, 54, said this week

"Osama bin Laden did not launch the attacks before the US presidential election because he was waiting for the election result," he said. If John Kerry had won, bin Laden would have adopted different tactics, but since Bush had won, he would launch the attacks.

Yu said Bin Laden is likely to launch the attacks on the US after the Chinese New Year holidays - a week-long festival starting on February 9 next year.

The attacks had been delayed because Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat had just died and it was not suitable to mount the attacks now.

"Unlike the 9/11 attacks, which hit only several targets in the US, this time there will be many attacks, mainly in the US but also in Europe," Yu said.

Yu based his prediction on the 1 500-year-old Tui Bei Tu (Push Back Chart) which predicts China and the world's future and is China's equivalent to French prophet Nostradamus's Centuries.

The terrorist attacks will cause panic in the US and hurt its economy, but the information technology (IT) industry in California will boom because Americans, scared by the terrorist attacks, will stay home - reading, studying and making purchases online.

While many companies will go bankrupt because of the terrorist attacks, war-related industries - iron and steel, gold, oil and the futures market - will benefit from them.

The terrorist attacks will lead to the rearrangement of US overseas-based troops and a re-distribution of global sphere of influence - both political and military.

The terrorism-caused war will last until the third quarter, possibly August. After 2005, there will be several years' peace in the world because the terrorists need a rest.


In the war between the US and the terrorists, there will be no winner.

While the US will be seized by terror in 2005, Asia will be an oasis and Asian countries will enjoy peace and stability.

"China will not be involved in the war, but will continue its robust economic growth. Taiwan-China ties will improve and Taiwan may even lift the ban on postal, transport and trade links with China," Yu said.

Yu's prediction runs counter to popular belief that Taipei-Beijing hostility will escalate in 2005 due to President Chen Shui-bian's push for Taiwan's independence.

Cross-Strait ties are at a critical juncture because China's National People's Congress is expected to pass the "anti-secession law" during its December 25-29 session, which will lay the legal basis for China's attacking Taiwan by force if Taipei seeks independence.

Yu bases his predictions on astrology, feng shui (Wind and Water), ba zi (conditions of one's birth), tui bei tu and zi wei dou shu (Chinese horoscope).

His predictions for Asia match those of Lee Heng-li, 52, another Taiwan geomancer.

Lee foresees recovery and harmony in Asia because 2005 is the Year of the Rooster and the rooster is a symbol of luck to the Chinese. "When the rooster crows, the day breaks and dawn comes, so it signifies hope and vitality for Asia," he said.

Chinese geomancers use many methods to make predictions about the new year, but all of them analyse the characteristics of the year's symbolic animal.

The Chinese zodiac has a 12-year cycle, each year represented by an animal - rat, ox, tiger, rabbit, dragon, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, rooster, dog and pig.

Last year, Yu predicted it was unlikely the US would catch bin Laden in 2004. The chance of catching him would still be very small in 2005. - Sapa-dpa

[soshin]

I did above because I thought that someone could linger here in a few years with the link long broken and wonder what we were talking about...

Well, how I came to the 70%?

His predictions see four main regions:

1.) US: here the prediction is totally wrong 0%
2.) Europe: One attack at the Tube in London. Lots of people dead or wounded. Rest of Europe peaceful (or as peaceful as it gets with the terror coming closer and closer...) I would give this one 60%
3.) Chinese-Taiwanese relationship: The Mainland is knitting friendly ties with the strong opposition party in the Taipei Parliament. The virtual leader of Taiwan sees himself in a cul de sac. Quite good relationships, or as good as they may get. And this was against all odds! I would say 100%
4.) Very good year for the Asian Economy. China and India as the main players in the field are growing stronger and stronger each day. No war or major unrest in the whole region leaving alone some Indonesian Islands and the Himalaya Kingdom of Nepal (in both countries some public unrests occured). 90%

Perhaps their methods work better the more influenced the countries would be from asian culture? Asia and China close to 100% fitting, Europe fifty/fifty and with the US: absolutely wrong.

I guess the chinese fortunetellers should stick with chinese or at least asian affairs. ;-)

They aren't good at middle east, either. Although it is not noted somwhere, a major earthquake as that in Pakistan leaving half a million people death and three million people homeless shoud have catched their astrological attention?

After all, it was just for fun...

Namaste,

Soshin

[bruce]

Hi Sohin,

The more accurate predictions above are so vague and general, almost anyone could surmise as much. For example: "China will not be involved in the war, but will continue its robust economic growth." When was the last actual war China engaged in? And her sustained economic growth was inevitable.

Fine for "fun" and parlor games, I suppose.

The Swami is in.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/5919.jpg

[rosada]

Soshin,
Thank you for sharing this. I would have to agree with Bruce that where the astrologer is wrong he is so utterly wrong that his "hits" are too vague to make up for his misses. Still it is good to see this if only to be reminded that just because it's in print doesn't make it true. And you are right, perhaps there was a disconnect when it came to trying to read the Western culture. There's plenty on the web saying Katrina was a terrorist attack, too, by the way.
Anywho, speaking of prognostications, there's is a bit of fluff circulating about how syncronistic it was that the delivery of the State of the Union Address fell so close to Ground Hog Day. One event involved a totally meaningless ritual with a creature of small intelligence prognosticating, while the other involved a ground hog...

[jesed]

jajajajaja very good Rosada

[heylise]

Katrina a terrorist attack.. WOW
Them terrorist sure have advanced weapons!

Hurricanes.

US is years behind with their shield and everything

[sunflare]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/teach.gif
Human beings live within frameworks of larger meaning. That is, they must have a frame of orientation, some way of making sense of the world, otherwise they cannot survive in a meaning void. Thus, through largely UNCONSCIOUS frames we view reality; frames that determine what we ALLOW ourselves to see, literally. This is what Albert Einstein was getting at when he said, "...it is theory which decides what we can observe."

And soooo, if it ain't the theory-du-jour that you're trying to share with others, then you got yourself a gathering mob of naysayers and disbelievers ready to nail you to their cross of ridicule. I take it Clarity regulars are all familiar with these gatherings?? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif A few of you have had your hands stamped more than just a couple of times. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

Darned average people. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/irked.gif In this sense, they are no different than the Me'en people of Ethiopia: When given a photograph of themselves for the first time, they stared at it, crumbled it, nibbled at it. They literally could not SEE human beings on the tiny, shiny, two-dimensional surface.

You see, it's hard for anyone to see what they do not EXPECT to see; what their mental maps do not allow http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif. And so it's easier for the average person to "believe in" crazy people http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/clown.gif who make up fantastical stories, for sanity seems to rest on distancing oneself from anything unlike what one believes to be true... and since this board seems to have attracted more than its fair share of "psychologists" and "shrinks" (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif yeah, right!) then the distance between sanity and lunacy must be LARGE, indeed, as seen by the "professional" responses such issues get around here. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/footinmouth.gif

Like I said, average people... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/uhoh.gif

[lightangel]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

And you are not average???
What separates you from the average people? Your delusions of grandeur or a very large "mental map"? (which I would maybe call a lack of critical thinking, but oh well..)

But you are funny! keep it up, pretending you condescend to the people that write here, meanwhile reading them avidly, looking for a chance to show off with some snappy little posthttp://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[bruce]

snappy little post http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

[lightangel]

touch?, Bruce..http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

[martin]

Okay then, my theory du jour ..

Seen from the 7th State of Heavenly Awareness, the State that is exclusively Mine and the only State in which the Really Real is revealed, all mountains are valleys and all particles are holes in the 29th Veil of the Absolute.

In every drop of the rain of Time there are only 24 human beings on earth.
There never have been less or more nor will there ever be.
The earth has 24 moons, one for each human being, two for each Pseudo Astrological Sign.
And every moon is a tunnel through which tiny orange and blue hyper cars race toward The Door That Is Not There.

Have to go to now. My shrink hates it when I'm too late. More later perhaps ..... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[lightangel]

Wait for me... my appointment comes right after yours..

[lightangel]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/5950.jpg

(grmp..)

[sunflare]

"And you are not average???
What separates you from the average people? Your delusions of grandeur or a very large "mental map"?"

Average, you say? oh, no doubt about it. And yes! to be sure, delusions of grandeur!! why else would I come here to play? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif the merry-go-round where every single one of my childish projections can be found http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif. What separates me from all you other average people, is that I am most familiar with the depth of my own stupidity and I am tickled. While you are so easily offended by virtue of your need to deliver "snappy" come backs and so miss the value and gift that was most certainly present http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/sad.gif. But that's youth for you.. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

And I don't need to be an avid reader of this board to know the who, what, where, when and why, around here. Once every few months for a half hour at most, and like a soap opera, I'm back at the top of the merry-go-round. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Martin, so glad you finally see the need to attend your appointments. Though it may help to lay on the couch with the legs higher than the head; perception of the outer world seems to have leaked down to your feet, leaving tremendous amounts of gas in the cranium. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

[lightangel]

Well, I am glad to see it's not only Martin who is making progress around here. It looks like you now have been granted some periodic internet access at the asylum (yes, I must admit, you are probably considered "average" there)!! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Snappy post doesn't mean I was offended, Sunflare. Maybe sometimes I just like the sound of my own voice a bit too much .. which makes me a bit like you, I suppose..

[bruce]

Angel, I believe the appropriate term is ? voyeur antagonist?.

[martin]

Finally someone who understands me! Gas in the cranium, yes!

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/5953.jpg

[lightangel]

Well, <u>voyeur</u> fits, <u>antagonist</u> definitely fits.. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/zen2.gif

[micheline]

still don't understand what sunflare's post had to do with this thread...? I am assuming his/her agenda has to do with people being incredulous about chinese predictions or maybe about Katrina being a terrorist attack?

I suspect a worthy teacher http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/teach.gif would be about the business of gently working to alter the UNCONSCIOUS frames of reality which hold (average) human beings in a kind of hypnotic spell. Maybe your post WAS an attempt to shake up the waters...but it didn't make any change in the level. MOre like an angry shark attack.

the worthiest teachers I have known would surely be overlooked by crafty sharks with sharp teeth and professed intellectual delight in their own stupidity. worthy teachers often slip by as terribly common, average... and uninteresting to sharp intellects who look so disappointedly for someone to inspire them. You could know them by their effect on you...but more likely never suspect that your now slightly altered and expanded frame of reference was made so by their passing.

YOu gotta be really aware to appreciate those moments. they seem so ordinary.

BUt thats why I love ordinary conversations, and even blustery ego-y arguments, armchair shrinks and *average* people who dig in their heels and say "hogwash." I am not looking disappointedly to be inspired. Just enjoying the view and mining the ordinary, average-looking moments for flashes of gold: one tiny view into the heart of a pulsing humanity that has no idea how delightful it truly is.

[sunflare]

"--->still don't understand what sunflare's post had to do with this thread...? I am assuming his/her agenda has to do with people being incredulous about chinese predictions or maybe about Katrina being a terrorist attack?"

And you would be assuming rightly. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

"--->I suspect a worthy teacher would be about the business of gently working to alter the UNCONSCIOUS frames of reality which hold (average) human beings in a kind of hypnotic spell. Maybe your post WAS an attempt to shake up the waters...but it didn't make any change in the level. MOre like an angry shark attack."

Firstly, the "teacher" icon was added as a tongue-in-cheek. Interesting the things that "catch" people's attention http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif, which brings me to my second point - why should I care what kind of a teacher YOU are looking for? and/or that you would much more prefer the kind that makes you all warm and gooey inside?? The fact is, we are ALL teachers to others when we aren't being students of others; we are constantly alternating between the two. And frankly, as far as that issue goes, we all have different needs at different times. Sometimes warm and gooey fits the bill, while at other times, a swift kick in the pants does the job a whole lot better.

And thirdly, I do not seek to produce change in others, only myself. If my words had no effect on anyone else reading them, I assure you, they had the desired effect on me, and so I succeeded despite your "average" judgement and evaluation of the worthiness of my efforts. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Also, Micheline, you overly exaggerate my participation in this thread as a "shark attack". To me, your words reflect an over-sensitivity to newcomers, and so with this I make my point. Your personal theory-of-the-day is an over-reaction to other people's maps when they seem to be somewhat indifferent to your need for caution and sheilding.

"--->the worthiest teachers I have known would surely be overlooked by crafty sharks with sharp teeth and professed intellectual delight in their own stupidity."

To you perhaps, this is how it seems.. for now. But, if you are lucky you will someday come to see that the worthiest teachers out there are the one's who recognize their own worst traits, accept them and then make peace with them, otherwise, they are unable to accept in others what they DENY or LOATHE about in themselves.

"--->worthy teachers often slip by as terribly common, average... and uninteresting to sharp intellects who look so disappointedly for someone to inspire them. You could know them by their effect on you...but more likely never suspect that your now slightly altered and expanded frame of reference was made so by their passing."

The common and average teacher (of which there are many) makes the student work much harder, whereas the one who manages to inspire others to higher levels from merely entering a room, is a sight to behold, AND a living example for one to aspire to. People seek out these types of teachers precisely because they offer a rare opportunity to emulate that special something that the average teacher lacks.

"--->YOu gotta be really aware to appreciate those moments. they seem so ordinary.
BUt thats why I love ordinary conversations, and even blustery ego-y arguments, armchair shrinks and *average* people who dig in their heels and say "hogwash." I am not looking disappointedly to be inspired. Just enjoying the view and mining the ordinary, average-looking moments for flashes of gold: one tiny view into the heart of a pulsing humanity that has no idea how delightful it truly is."

Of course, one only need appreciate the very people in one's midst (family, friends) to find that the joy of life is contained in those moments that we offer gratitude to. But I had to read this paragraph a few times to understand what YOU were aiming for here by voicing this opinion.

Although I am in total agreement with your sentiments, this is not something that I personally would waste energy saying to others unless I needed convincing myself. You see, we normally go about convincing others of our truth just by the sheer way we approach our lives. If our lives don't speak for us, because we haven't yet put into practice the things that we intellectually know are true, then we have to do the 'grunt' work and give our truth a voice by speaking the words to others, until we ourselves start living it.

[sunflare]

Bruce, you seem to have an interesting NON-direct way of communicating with people who are right in front of you http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lame.gif. For some reason, you choose to speak ABOUT them to someone else, and manipulating this third party into joining you in a twisted form of 'cattiness'. This is the second time you've done it on this thread. There is a psychological term for this type of behavior that I'm sure one of the many shrinks on this board can help us with http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif. Might you also enlighten me to the term -->voyeur antagonist<--? How exactly does this describe me? and, how have you become so aquainted with this particular behavior that you are now confident about labeling ME thusly, based on a mere two posts? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif

[bruce]

No, sunflare, this simply doesn't interest me enough to say more than I have, and I'm more interested in Angel than yourself.

Now, I suppose you're going to attempt a cheap psychoanalysis of that.

I know who you are, regardless which handle you choose to use. It doesn't matter. Have your fun.

[micheline]

erasing my post

[rosada]

Hi,
As the person who first introduced the idea that some consider Katrina to have been a terrorist attack, I thought I'd post to elaborate on the theory. It seems there are those who feel our weather is being manipulated by the various world governments. Unfortunately I cannot recall the website at the moment, but there are pictures out there of clouds in the shape of boxes, as if having been created on a grid, plus other examples of unusual "un-natural" weather. Anyone intereted enough to do a toss on it? Not sure how the question should be phrased....

[jesed]

Hi rosada
Just in case the commen could be useful

how about this way:

"was katrina create intentionally?"

Best wishes

[sunflare]

Well, like I said when I first came in here, when anyone tries to post new or unusual ideas, ideas that the majority in here don't exactly understand, rather than either listen quietly to what others might have to say on the subject or even admit to not knowing much about the subject, all they see is an opportunity to cause some form of disfunction. And when all's been said and done, they turn around and accuse those speaking, of having created the problem that THEY themselves set into motion.

If any of you here have the balls to go back and re-read my posts you will find there was no ATTACK on ANYONE at ANYTIME. What I did say when I came in here, was that I was familiar with the drill around here (hoping perhaps that someone might actually show me up and prove me wrong by addressing the issue I came in presenting) BUT as par for the course, my assessment has once again been proved CORRECT on all counts.

The only person who seemed able to appreciate my humor (and I his http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif) was Martin. I don't know exactly what happened to Micheline (to say that something's a little off here is to put it mildly) but if she herself would care to go and re-read her own post, she will see how intentionally "nasty" she was in her response to me. I took it all in stride and responded with civility so I do not see what would cause her to want to remove her post.

Despite the fact that Micheline first accused me of having created a "shark attack", and then proceeded to use words like "crafty" "sharp teeth" "intellectually delighting in...stupidity" in her response to describe what she thought of people like me (I presume), I let it go and went directly to addressing the ideas she herself presented. What more can anyone ask for?? therefore, her reaction is totally overboard as it relates to this discussion and someone ought to point this out her - it might as well be me.

As for Bruce, he still cowers from any form of REAL discussion and avoids taking responsibility for the things that he says and/or does around here. This is an old schitk, but that's why he hangs around here, it works for him. He just has to come out and say things like, "You don't interest me enough to bother with" or "I know who you are".

Well damn, Bruce, if you REALLY know who I am then why in the world would you be so rude? Now don't go busting a brain cell son, I'll tell you why so you don't have to bother with the complexities of doing anything more relevant than posting some lame-ass picture on the board. It's all about competition, friend. Competition, plain and simple. The only way you feel you can win with people like me is by playing your AGGRESSIVE card in whatever way works, and THEN playing the wounded soldier who was ambushed card to elicit sympathy. Sound familiar? It should, cause that's what you do best - manipulate.

Yet, I didn't ambush you, Bruce. YOU came traipsing in here with full knowledge of who I am, SUPPOSEDLY, and started doing that roundabout thing you like doing. Why? What's the payoff, exactly? Again, I'll tell you. Control - the type that keeps others from labeling you openly for the voyeur antagonist YOU really are? Grow up and learn to take responsiblity for your activities and account for your words man. Either that or get plenty paranoid 'cause I'll be back when the mood strikes. Perhaps in the meantime you should learn to play your cards differently so that we can create a win-win situation in the future, instead of this roadblock you keep throwing up that ends all discussion altogether. Tip: don't take yourself so seriously - let the ego-trip drop a few notches.

[rosada]

Thanks Jesed,
Okay, I asked, "Was Hurricane Katrina created intentionally?" I say Hurricane to distinguish it from the whole Katrina disaster, although that also suggests another question as in, was the storm's distruction intentionally allowed to escalate? But anyway, just focusing on the weather I received:
5.2 changing to 63.
Any insights? I think it's interesting that 5.2 refers to gossip!

[bruce]

When is the last time you really looked into a mirror, Sunflare?

[jesed]

jajajaja, thanks rosada.. nice answer


5... rain cann't be produced by man's effort...

5.2 unfair and false incriminations, but at the end, that rumors would end

63 leave that rumors in the past, cross the river about them

[micheline]

**

[rosada]

Oh right, Jesed. I hadn't even noticed that 5 specifically says rain not produced by man's effort.
Love it!

[moonbeam]

It's too bad that the internet lets any creep come barge in to disrupt and distract from otherwise valuable discussions. A weakness of the medium, I suppose.

Amusing how Sunflare did exactly what Bruce told him to do: "Now, I suppose you're going to attempt a cheap psychoanalysis of that." Sure enough, thats just what he did.

And creepy how Sunflare did *exactly* what he accused Bruce of doing: "The only way you feel you can win with people like me is by playing your AGGRESSIVE card in whatever way works, and THEN playing the wounded soldier who was ambushed card to elicit sympathy. Sound familiar? It should, cause that's what you do best - manipulate. "

I'm guessing it sounds reeeeaaal familiar to Mr. Creep there.

More almost textbook classic creepiness, yet so very transparent, when Sunflare wrote: "If any of you here have the balls to go back and re-read my posts you will find there was no ATTACK on ANYONE at ANYTIME."

After all, in his first post he wrote: "and since this board seems to have attracted more than its fair share of "psychologists" and "shrinks" ( yeah, right!) then the distance between sanity and lunacy must be LARGE, indeed, as seen by the "professional" responses such issues get around here"

Guess that would make Sunflare a liar, eh? But I'm guessing most of us already had him pegged for that quite some time ago.

Oh, one more thing. Sunflare wrote: "when anyone tries to post new or unusual ideas, ideas that the majority in here don't exactly understand"

I HOPE he's not referring to this: "Human beings live within frameworks of larger meaning. That is, they must have a frame of orientation, some way of making sense of the world, otherwise they cannot survive in a meaning void. Thus, through largely UNCONSCIOUS frames we view reality; frames that determine what we ALLOW ourselves to see, literally. "

I hope Sunflare understands that parroting truisms that can be found in any high school psychology textbook worthy of publication hardly constitutes posting "new or unusual ideas". Sure, it's true enough. And everyone over 18 with half an education knows it too, Einstein.

[bruce]

I hope Sunburst?s diatribes don't slow down the board?s activity. Believe me, they?re nothing to be intimidated by. Just a lot of noise, with the sole intent to bring out the worst in people. More of a pain in the ass than a real threat.

There was a time when I might have enjoyed taking up an argument such as this. Part of me still would, but I now think that would show disrespect to not only myself, but to the others who visit and write here. Nobody wants or needs to hear it. It lowers the bar too far. At least for me.

I hope someday Starburst and her friends get over their bitterness.

[jerryd]

Can I leave a call for someone to e-mail me when all this really silly diatribe ceases and something is said and debated here which is fairly simple to comprehend. Like how the meaning of life can be applied to the I- Ching or is this all there is? are we the meaning??? thanks, not this thread in particular, all of them seem to have gone off the rails.../ Cheers

[peace]

I too have no interest in even reading the threads anymore. I spend most of my time scrolling down - and there is so little of what I thought the real purpose was here anymore.

It saddens me because I have learned so much and enjoyed giving my opinions too.

Rosalie

[jesed]

Hi Rosalie

Maybe you find intersting try www.e-ching.com (http://www.e-ching.com) forum

Is originally in Spanish... but has a tool to translate into English

Best wishes

ps. be aware... is a site with too much confucio and "moral" jajaja

[void]

("jajaja" ??? Jesed I gotta ask you what does it mean ? )

[jesed]

Hi Void

Joyfull reaction.

Something like "man? Yi Jing is a great dude... yes, rain cann't be made by man's effort"

When answers like this happen, always inlight my day.

best wishes

[jesed]

oh... maybe you was talking about the second "jajaja", about www.e-ching.com (http://www.e-ching.com)

well... this "moral" issue against confucio in modern society always make me smile. That's all

Posting like a "warning" that this site has "too much confucio and moral" is, of course, a joke

[jesed]

oh. i had try today the translation into English tool in www.e-ching.com (http://www.e-ching.com)

Is automatical translation... and bad translation
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/sad.gif

[void]

Ah I see, thanks Jesed. Yeah 5,2 was a great answer for the Katrina question.

BTW Peace Greatvessel is another new site where no squabbling has broken out as yet - but thats maybe because hardly anyones posted there yet.(its very highbrow http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/clown.gifat the moment)

Funny, just a thought, do you think they are trying to attract a different kind of 'Yi Jing clientele' http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif I suppose us here can be rather basic at times.

[jesed]

Hi Void

I decide no to post in Great Vessel because of their policy about copyright
(any idea, thought, tool that you post in there, is automatically "property" of Karcher)

Thanks God Fu Shi, King Wen and others didn't know about "copyrights" http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[hilary]

That's a scary copyright policy! Maybe it's not what they meant? As soon as access to the path C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322\Tempo rary ASP.NET Files\root\06bf0b05\61f30b00 is no longer denied (remind me never to attempt a dynamically-generated site on Windows!) I will have to go read the small print.

I think GreatVessel are trying *not* to attract personal vendettas http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/irked.gif, and I wish'em all kinds of luck with that! Also, they have active moderation and are not afraid to delete unwanted parts of posts. So their forum will probably be a more reliably peaceful place than this one.

I think we go through ups and downs here - over the years there have been a whole lot. But let's not 47.1 about it. If current threads are tedious, ignore them and start one that isn't. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

And now I really must do something about my 'mid-month' (heh) newsletter... blog posting today and mailing tomorrow, I guess...

[jesed]

Forum policies

"Forum Posts
If you post to GreatVessel Forums creative suggestions, ideas, notes, drawings, or other information (collectively, the "Submissions"), the Submissions shall be deemed, and shall remain, the property of GreatVessel."

http://www.greatvessel.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=491&amp;tabindex=4&amp;DocumentI D=1957

And yes, i wish them luck... just not sharing this property-aproach to an ancient collective wisdom

[void]

Wow ! Am fascinated by the rule that "you agree not to impersonate any person or entity.... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/uhoh.gif Impersonate an entity ?

[jesed]

Spirits, the Yi Jing itself.. and so on

[hilary]

So the link is working for you?
Odd. Not for me.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif

[lightofdarkness]

Jesed, I suppose the issue is on posting the material. If you post a LINK to material then all that has been submitted is the link, NOT the material - IOW a reference to something outside of the scope of that list. The reader then has the choice of following the link or notm without knowing what the idea etc is (and so it is not explicitly submitted to that domain. Then come the issues of implicit submission in the form of the link - so I just add a link to yahoo central and see how their lawyers would feel about their material being 'taken over'!)

The notice is interesting in that the wording represents a form of theft (or 'legal' plagerism) and so it not suitable for unconditional discussion where existing copyright etc is accepted. IOW if I have an idea published on my websites and copyrighted as such, and then submit that idea to their forum, they are trying to claim that is a transference of copyright! LOL! sure dudes!

I have some posts there but either they contain links or not enough information to 'steal' without going outside of the domain to read my websites (or threads on clarity). The act of going outside of the domain to 'fill in the dots' of an idea etc means the WHOLE idea was NOT submitted to the domain and so any claim of ownership of that idea is null and void.

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

BTW -academic journals will insist on one's paper being 'transferred' to their copyright. They are running a business and the 'cost' of publication is covered in the gaining of the copright such that they can sell the particular article and/or get kudos that encourages subscriptions etc etc - if the paper is 'good' then the author gets kudos for (a) the paper and (b) being published in some 'well known' journal - e.g. Nature etc.

In commercial magazines they use their own staff writers or contract writers for a fee - and so keep all of the copyright unless there is some deal made to keep the copyright in the hands of the author (book publications will more often assign the copyright to the author)

In the computer industry there is 'open source' copyright that allows for free use of material as long as the GNU copyright is present.

There are issues with this in that projects developed using open source can have issues re intellectual property etc when patents etc are sought.

Chris.

[kevin]

Hi folks

I am writing here with my Great Vessel hat on.

A little about us: The site is jointly run by the three of us, that is myself, Pete and Stephen. You can find who does what in our 'about us' (http://www.greatvessel.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=488&amp;tabindex=1.)

One of the services we are trying to provide is to make available a free platform for others to publish on. This might be a paper or article, or it might mean us selling an eBook on their behalf. We are committed to the Yi and divination and want to provide a service as well as making a small living. So most of the material we will be posting will be free to read and to download, as it is now.

Our forum policies are designed to protect GreatVessel and its users, no more. We certainly do not seek to own or take other people?s material. On re-reading that particular section it does seem overly tough (or protective!). I have pointed this out to Pete, who has undertaken to review it, if I let him have a break from programming!

I noticed the comment on our site being ?highbrow?. We do not have any lofty academic aspirations, but do aim to have a wide spread of material from academic papers to introductory material. There is so much stuff we just don't have online yet.

It is very difficult to get forums going and a quiet forum can be daunting for the poster. When they do get going it will be the members / posters who define them.

Hilary is right, we do have a 'delete post' policy, but only to be used as a last resort if folk are abusive toward others and they refuse to heed requests to stop.

All the best

--Kevin

[jesed]

Hi Kevin

As i said, I wish you the best... and as i said (I'm, in professional world, an attorney) the expression in the policies is clear: by accepting the policies, any "creative idea" posted is "property" of Great Vessel.

I think is not your idea, but your legal advicer's idea.

And I completelly agree with the need of some rules to avoid disrespect in public forums. Is question of balance, not to much limitations, but some limitations in deed, as hex 60 said.

Best wishes

[kevin]

Hi Jesed

I did not take your comments as anything other than an expression of real, and valid, concern.

The guy in the back room is re-drafting right now.

Thanks for drawing this to my attention. We need something that protects both outselves and the posters as well. We want a safe place for people to share and grow with a free exchange of ideas. Hence our own (free) material is free to circulate privately. We only ask that our link travels with them. We will get there.

Thanks for your good wishes http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

All the best

--Kevin