Sequencing the 64 Hexagrams into a Single Cycle -- Help

[david]

I have been trying to understand the I Ching for years with very little success. I've always believed, probably wrongly, that the I Ching's 64 Hexagrams form a universal cycle which can be applied to both micro- and macro-level matters. For purposes of this discussion by Micro I mean, for example, a relationship with a spouse or a friend. And by Macro I mean, for example, the cycle of the economy. (I don't mean to suggest that the path is straight up and then straight down, but rather more like 2 steps up and 1 down all the way to the peak and then down in the same fashion until the cycle is completed.)

Since the cycle (not necessarily the time it takes to move from one hexagram to the next which could vary from "matter" to "matter", meaning you could stay "at" a hexagram for extended periods of time or at least until you made the "leap" to the next "inevitable" hexagram) was universal. So extending this theory, if you could identify where in the cycle you were, you would then seek to foster and hence "stay" at "good" hexagrams longer and anticipate the hexagrams that follow and similarly manage your way out or "leave" undesirable hexagrams.

Does this theory make any sense at all? Is this part of what the I Ching is all about? If so, are there any authoritative hexagram cycle sequences? and supporting reasoning behind the sequence?

[candid]

Welcome David,

Its an interesting theory you put forth. I'm not sure I understand your entire meaning, but have an idea of what you're expressing.

One of the objectives for me is to work positively through all the changes. This includes what you refer to as 'undesirable hexagrams.' In fact, some of the most positive changes (change lines) are contained within the undesirable hexagrams, which makes perfect sense since everything changes into its opposite. Likewise, changes in a positive or 'good' hexagram also changes into its opposite.

I don't believe the objective is to stay at any particular series of positive changes, but to traverse each one successfully, making the most of every situation. Otherwise, we'd just be spoiled Ching-brats. Adversity builds strength and character, which then leads to positive changes.

~Candid

[chris]

For the cycles of ANY hexagram see http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/icmatrix.html. There are a number of sequences of the hexagrams, they serve as a language.

The recursion of yin/yang gives you the SCALAR forms of hexagrams - general expressions, magnitudes. Zoom-in on each particular hexagram and you can derive a VECTOR that reflects CYCLIC processes, repeatable but not reversible.

Chris.
http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/newindex.html

[hilary]

Hello David and Arthur, welcome to the board!

Thanks, David, for launching this one.

Arthur, is that Wen Wang Ba Gua you're talking about, the system expounded at superiching.com? I don't know it, but I've heard that it's popular in China, where diviners perform the extraordinary mental feat of memorising the whole complex system.

Between 'superiching' and Chris's site, I think there should be no shortage of systems and sequences for you http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

About the hexagrams as a sequence... two thoughts...

Firstly, the traditional sequence has great depths in both structure and meaning. I think it's sometimes dismissed too readily. As I build up experience as a diviner, I keep finding new ways in which its flow corresponds to internal and external experience. This is not just within the inverted pairs (3 and 4, 5 and 6...) but also between them. The 'Sequence of the Hexagrams' Wing sometimes barely hints at the internal logic of the thing. There's more to be discovered here, I'm sure of it. For example, Stephen Karcher's upcoming book sees the pairs of hexagrams in the traditional sequence as reflecting, in the broad brush-strokes of decades, the years of a life.

(The traditional sequence also has greater structural depths than you might imagine at first. Just look at http://www.ping.be/icrea/explan.html.)

Thought number 2 (!): what about divination? I think - feeling my way here - that working with the I Ching both situates you within a range of unchanging relationships and structures and reflects the unique quality of the moment, the individual and her/his choices.

The key word there is 'choice' - our tool for creation. If it were only about treading endlessly round a cycle, maybe managing to hasten some parts of it and delay others (though I agree with Candid, I don't think I believe in an 'undesirable' hexagram), what would be the point?

Every reading creates new juxtapositions and meanings - not only within the I Ching, where as we all know there are a mere 4096 combinations, but in the new metaphors created out of our lives and its imagery. (The Well is inexhaustible, after all...)

So yes, I think cycles and natural evolution on micro- and macrocosmic levels are part of it. But if that were all there was, then the I Ching would be uniquely the property of the system-creators and makers of rules, not a compassionate, wise and blunt (/rude) presence in a great many lives. Change is also startling, and the oracle also speaks.

[candid]

"Change is also startling, and the oracle also speaks." ~Hilary

This is not unlike our dreams. One of the most fascinating things to me is becoming startled in a dream. How is it we can startle our own self? We are both, the starter and the startled. We're both, the macro and the micro. We're the collective and the individual. The collective startles the individual, yet they are not actually two, but one. Likewise, I view Yi.

Individual events are not separate from the collective, though our subjective mind views them as such. This is how we manage to surprise ourself in dreaming, and it is also how we are sometimes surprised at Yi?s answers.

?In order to find one's place in the infinity of being, one must be able both to separate and to unite.? ~Wilhelm on #3

[dharma]

I have to admit that much of what's been said here leaves me feeling scattered and so I allow it all to slip through the cracks of my thinking in the hopes that something meaningful will arise from not thinking too much.

Too many words and surmisings about anything shuts down the logical/rational side of my brain forcing me to use my intuition to get at the grist and the gist of a discussion. Here is what arose.

Is it relevant?... My heart says it is.

"Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. "It's the wind that is really moving," stated the first one. "No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second. A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them. "Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."

This isn't to say that the flag and the wind aren't moving --that is insignificant-- they ARE what they ARE.. It's the mind that gives things meaning...

Dharma

[candid]

Hi Dharma,

I appreciate the Zen anecdote. It has a way of breaking through the clutter for me too. Befuddling logic to awaken an inner truth. Like yourself, I try to avoid paralysis of analysis. Yet, its good that there are some (like Chris) whose Tao it is to formulate, analyze and compare. Much of it is either beyond my compression or my desire to learn it. Like my Nietzsche room-mate who continuously attempts to evangelize me to his hard core ?realist? views, I appreciate his own nature which resonates with this kind of reasoning; though its not my own way. Still, what does make its way through, that which I am receptive to, exerts a positive influence.

I?ll leave the math to the mathematicians for them to work out, and to their own satisfying ends; or not.

The middle path works for me. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/i_ching_discussion/clipart/happy.gif

[mike]

All my life I have searched for a sensible order for the I-Ching hexagrams and given up, feeling the standard order to be "wrong" somehow. I was astounded to find the circular order of I-Ching hexagrams in the Human Design System - www.genekeys.co.uk for example, www.jovianarchive.com www.humandesign.com and from this I have developed a whole new mathematical system. I also attended 2 HDS seminars in the last few months and am amazed, and feeling a huge sense of peace and ... what can I say ... the order is simple, mathematically. The upper trigrams increase from one point as if they were binary (or base 8) numbers, and the lower trigram... it is hard to describe but it is so beautiful. It is truth.