Herbs and hormones

[micheline]

I went to chinatown (nyc) to visit an herb shop that I have ordered from before. I have been having hot flashes more often, not terribly bothersome, but I am always looking to handle this transition in the most balanced and healthful way possible. I have been kinda tired and moody too.

I asked for a consultation. They ushered me upstairs to an "herb doctor" who could barely speak english although he was very kind and caring. He took my pulse, looked at my tongue , asked me questions in halting english. Said my "yin was weak". He then wrote out a prescription in chinese.

Downstairs they gave me 12 bags each containing 10 tea bag size packets of herb powder. I am to make a tea twice a day, for 12 days.

They assured me it was all "safe" and would improve my mood and energy, balance my hormones...but i left feeling a little uncertain. And it cost more than I thought, altho not in a shocking sense.
I asked the Yi...what effect would these herbs have on my body?

22 > 29 all lines change except 4. this concerned me. Does anyone else read this as saying I should just leave well enough alone and let my body do this on its own?

also asked about the worthiness of this treatment and got 11. 1.2.4.6 > 56. that did not sound good to me...any ideas on these readings?

[jerryd]

Micheline;
I will give you here my interpertation based on the gua you preesent and my knowledge of your current circumstance. Neither are to be taken as professional advice/

22>29 with 4 as a stable line represents to me the value of the line which does not move in this instance. a yin line which is un moved, Wilhelm says of this line(paraphrase) [to persue the grace of external wisdom( the herbalist) or to return to simplisity.](do nothing) your contemplation.
> 29 the fact you have lost one yang line in this transition is to my thinking a good thing although it reads as a negative,( the yin in line 4 is still unchanged, it appears as a simplistic remedy for a nagging problem, a jug of wine and a bowl of rice, no blame for this.

As for your gua 11 1.2.4.6. >56

Taken at a face value 11 is a positive and well recieved although you have many lines changeing there is no concern unless you feel an uncertainty with your own judgement of this treatment, as the comentary is specific in stateing its success through smalness(treatment) persed( my interpertation) and (persiverence will bring good fortune), now to my eyes this tell me you can safely persue this herbal treatment with out harm, should you complete it and find it is not of help an alternative treatment is likely an answer to the wanderer(seeker).

it is my belief that the attitude you may abopt to the therapy perscribed may indeed have a bearing on how useful it may be to you.

I hope this is healpful.

[val]

Did someone say hormones? *grin*

Micheline... Is evening primrose oil one of the supplements they gave you? I'd love to know what the Yi says about that for you. They say nope... huh-uh... no way... don't do it... wouldn't be prudent... to me. I know paramenopausal women who swear it reduces their symptoms, yet all the medical research I've read on it says it has no impact whatsoever. Sometimes these things work just by the power of suggestion. *shrugs shoulders*

Love,

Val

[micheline]

Val, I love evening primrose, been taking it for years and I believe it helps me sleep, and that over the years it has made me a calmer person. If nothing else, the omega oils in it are healthful.

In fact I have gotten a little lax with that lately, and maybe i should get more regular with it again.

NOOO, these herbs form chinatown are very obscure...e.g ANMARRHENA (RHIZOME)...WOLFBERRY LYCEUM,...SIBERIAN SOLOMONSEAL..to name a few!
LOL

Jerry D, thank you so much! your words comfort me.
I like that I can possibly see 4 as the "stable line" for that reading..yes, that makes sense.

I am a wanderer/seeker in strange territory , thats for sure.

[ewald]

Having looked a bit into Chinese medicine, the way the herb doctor made his diagnosis sounds familiar to me, and I would trust that. He probably used three fingers to feel your pulse.

22 > 29 to me means that you've been "covering up" your deficiencies to the outside world (22), and that the herb tea will strengthen you so that you'll be better able to step into uncertain situations (29).

Ewald

[dobro]

"22 > 29 all lines change except 4"

Two things here. First, ornamentation or grace that moves through danger (I'm taking the 'danger' in your situation to be either the health condition you're taking the herbs for, or your feelings of doubt and danger that you're experiencing when you consider taking the herbs; other people might read this as 'ornamentation or grace that leads you toward a risky situation' - your call - which one feels more right?). Nothing wrong with trying these herbs, in other words, but at the same time, nothing that has a significant or deep effect either. My reading would be that the herbs would enhance your health without affecting any of its fundamental issues.

Second, all the lines are active except 4. My experience of lots of changing lines is that it's got more to do with the primary and relating hexagrams, and less to do with the individual active lines.

[hester]

Dear Micheline;

Excellent coverage of your question by the diviners. i offer you this audio file:

http://archive.wbai.org/files/mp3/050822_120002shhealing.MP3

of a doctor who has helped me tremendosly. Dr. Majid ali is wonderful. If the file does not open for you, please tell me, i will re post.

xox
hest

[micheline]

Thank you Ewald, Dobro and Hester......very interesting interpretations.

I am feeling that 22> 29 is describing a graceful and pure approach (22) to the perils of this inevitable passage I face (29). It does feel like a bit falling into an abyss, but I am sensing that 29 is not always a bad place to be. 29 experiences are part of the flow of life, and this feels like that river ride at Disneyworld. I'm cookin'

hester, thanks, the audio did load and I am looking forward to listening.
Micheline

[heylise]

Ever saw the name I gave hexagram 22?

http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/hex_17-32/hex_e_22.htm

Yilin verse 22-29: "Riding a carriage with a red horse, driving a carriage with a black horse, to the East for help. Meeting a benevolent friend, giving me supplies. With rich profit returning.

Just giving this because it was all so perfect! I have no idea if it means you should take the herbs. I do know that for these things, together with allergies and such, Chinese medicine can be excellent. Google them on internet, then you know more or less what you are taking...

LiSe

[hester]

I think you are on the right track with your feeling about 22 to 29, Micheline. The Yilin verse LiSe provided is amazingly accurate. How on earth does the Yilin do that? When can we get a copy? hahaaha!

The translation for line 4 in hex 29 in Wu Jing-Nuan's edition seems so fitting for you: "A cup of wine, a basket of rice. Two offerings of earthen vessels to hand up to bind my own enlightenment. In the end, no error."

[micheline]

wow...I am laughing at the amazing synchronicity.
Thanks LiSe, and thanks Hester.

I am about to prepare my sacred pot of herbs....I feel at peace with this now.
Love, MIcheline

[sherab]

Micheline,
Much sympathy (for the hotflashes) and a couple of thoughts... when there are so many changing lines (as in #22) traditionally one looks at the stable line in the outcome hexagram. So check out and think about line 4 in #29. Second thought: Hexagram 29, in a medical context, is all about the kidney function - and I mean that in the context of Chinese medicine - so it is more than simply the organs in your abdomen; rather, it refers to the vital function of reserves of life energy (waters of life). It seems to me that the treatment you received might be aimed at strengthening your kidney function, which can and does get depleted with the hotflashes - which are such, SUCH a drain of vital energy. Maybe some acupuncture would be good to complement the herbs? Hmmm.....
Excelsior!
Sherab

[micheline]

Thank you very much Sherab......
the herb doctor did say my kidneys were weak and even advised a blood test with a regular MD (which I have scheduled)...hmm so interesting that 29 points to that, and I see it makes sense.

I was not necessarily seeing hot flashes as energy drains , more like a sacred fire..but maybe this is wishful thinking on my part...Do you suggest any way to preserve the loss of this energy in the face of hot flashes?

I am considering an acupuncturist also.
Much gratitude to you
Micheline

[ewald]

The thought that hex. 29 coincides with the Kidney from Chinese medicine also crossed my mind.

Note that this is not the same as the kidneys from western medicine. The Kidney from Chinese medicine is more related to the adrenals and the hormonal system.

[micheline]

the brew tastes awful by the way.

think i should put some sweet'n low in it?? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif

[micheline]

Ewald...so the "kidney" in chinese medicine is not to do with the actual organ there in the lower back..but to do with a system of sorts ?? maybe i need to google this matter too hmmmmm

It was frustrating because this herb doctor did not know a lot of english and our communication was not the best because of this

[sherab]

Micheline, yes, yes, sacred fire, energy surges, burning off the dross, yes, all this and more.... still, in my experience I cannot help but feel that there is a drain of chi energy.... note how the head is hot and the feet are cold during a flash, and you feel disrupted and disturbed and exhausted after one.... always feels like an energy drain to me, especially when it is repeated for days on end...even while it might be the other things too. Your question to the I Ching was about a medical consultation, so maybe look at it in terms of the Chinese system, maybe get some more information about the kidney function in that system. The hexagrams you drew point to great flux (all those change lines....) and #29 may not be so much an outcome as a cause, or a pointer to a workable area. There is a book called The Medical I Ching - so sorry, I don't have the author etc. at hand, but it is around, maybe available on Amazon or something, but you may want to check that out.
Blessings,
Sherab

[heylise]

Anyone who wants to know the Yilin verse for a question can ask, then I (try to) translate it. It does not always make as much sense as this one, but sometimes it is really hitting the mark.

Good reason to translate one. There are more than 4000, so to have a reason for a particular one is nice.

LiSe

[heylise]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/footinmouth.gifhttp://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/shame.gif
oooh Micheline.. I got a mail that my version of the Yilin was very different from his.. So I looked carefully at everything, and it turns out I saved 23 two times, once as 23 - and once as 22http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/paperbag.gif<font size="-1">LiSe</font>

[micheline]

that's okay LiSe!!.....maybe there is no such thing as an accident!
..and i wouldve tried the herbs anyway. I have survived, so far ; )

Sherab, I have heard of the medical Iching.....may try to find it, thanks....odd thing about these flashes is that I dont find them so disturbing, almost pleasant...(go figure)...and not exhausting per se, only i feel sleepy at times.....as a pregnant woman! But YES, it must be an energy drain after many days.this is relatively new to me , the fact they come more often.....Iwill have to see how it develops.
thank you both! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/zen2.gif

[val]

Hi Micheline...

Interesting that kidneys should be mentioned in conjunction with menopause. I hadn't heard that yet, and I'd love to learn more. I do know the liver is vital to the endocrine system and very important where female hormones is concerned. The liver is the primary organ involved in converting cholesterol into estrogen. When the signal to convert the cholesterol doesn't come through to the liver for whatever reason (menopause being one of them), then the liver instead makes chains of cholesterol and deposits them in the arteries. That's the huge reason menopausal women have to watch their cholesterol intake and blood pressure and a BIG danger to overcome in our 'condition'.

Love,

Val

[heylise]

The kidneys seem to be the base where yin Qi dwells. The most basic energy of the body. I guess, when that energy is ok, the body can overcome the distress of menopause without much trouble. Lots of other things too, of course.

LiSe

[val]

Thank you LiSe...

Does anyone have any medical research information on the kidneys and menopause? Menopausal minds want to know... *grin*

Thanks!

Love,

Val

[jerryd]

Menopause is not a disease you guys it is a biological change. It is a disruption occuring normally, it does create symptomologies and discomfort and may cause other systems in the body to react in sympathy. This too will pass and, all that can be done is treat the symptoms and make sure the parasympathic responses from other areas are not mistaken for omens of doom. I am not making light of the discomfort just a little explaination to help ease anxiety OK.

[micheline]

Maybe, Val, this has to do with my kidneys in particular and not menopause in general. I remember I had a kidney infection as a teen.

that is very interesting what you say about the liver..i wonder if that contributes to weight gain also. I have been spoiled all my life being able to eat like a nut and never go above 130. now I am held accountable for every bite I eat. I hear that passes though.

Jerry, YOu are so right...and i truly do not look at this as a disease....but it is a passage to be mindful of and to handle in the most advantageous way, like pregnancy. I also think, as you imply, that the body can be trusted, but I also think the point of stress or distress can reveal things that may have been hidden before too.
thank you for your words to ease anxiety.that is kind of you.
M

[val]

Hi Micheline...

Well the thing is about the kidneys is that the adrenal glands, which are part of the endocrine system along with the hypothalamus, pituitary gland, thyroid, parathyroids, pineal body and the reproductive glands and produce reproductive hormones, sit on top of the kidneys. Now it could be because the view from on top of the kidneys is the best, but I'm thinking it's probably because there's some kind of important interaction between the adrenals and the kidneys. I just don't know what it is.

And my goal is to live to be a very old matriarch presiding over all family functions where my grandchildren and great grandchildren line up to give me kisses... so I want to keep all my body parts in tip top shape. I'm getting regular physical check ups and taking extra calcium for my bones and a glucosamine complex for my joints on top of my daily multiple vitamin, eating foods rich in Omega-3 fatty acids and oats to reduce my cholesterol and exercising to achieve a plethora of benefits. I haven't heard of any booster activities for the kidneys, but if there are any, I think it goes without saying now... all things considered... that I want to know about it.

Besides, I would like to believe that the attention to your kidneys by this Chinese doctor is because of menopause and not something serious and difficult for you to deal with.

Love,

Val

[val]

PS...

I didn't add any *grins* or *wry grins* to the above post because I'd also like to believe that my dry humor is clearly humor. But in the event my humor was too dry for detection... the first two paragraphs were more fun than anything else. The last paragraph about wishing you supremely good health was completely serious.

[micheline]

Dear Val, your paragraphs, whether humorous or not, are *right on* as far as I am concerned. Inspiring. YOur goal is beautiful and worthy .

I also plan to live long and enjoy......also am extremely interested in the glandular systems and in particular the adrenals. There is an obvious relation to stress here with this one.

I dont feel educated enough to elaborate much more except to say that I am going to pursue this possible connection and see what I come up with it. I'll keep you posted if anything interesting comes to my attention.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

MIcheline

[sherab]

So.... I found the name of that Medical I Ching I mentioned t'other day. Here 'tis:
The Medical I Ching Oracle of the Healer Within by Miki Shima.
It goes through each of the hexagrams and lines with a medical commentary.

Sherab

[peace]

FYI - It's on half.com for $12.00
I also just ordered Numerology of the I Ching by Huang.
Is anyone familiar with it?

Rosalie

[micheline]

thanks very much, Sherab and Rosalie.

[val]

Micheline...

I just asked our receptionist who is close to my age if she'd started her... you know... symptoms yet. She asked what symptoms. I said "well like hot flashes." She said "We don't get them." I said "We???" She said "Japanese... we don't get them because of the amount of soy in our diets since early childhood."

I'm off to the grocery store to buy soy products.

Love,

Val

[micheline]

Ha ha, and i just came home from the store with a bunch of Edensoy organic soy milk cartons! vanilla.
Cheers!

[val]

Micheline...

Can you get edamame where you live? I couldn't get it where I lived in Virginia, and it's one of my favorite snacks. I looked everywhere. Now that I'm back in LA, I have about three bags in my freezer at all times. I never run out.

Suck on the (slightly) salty pod as you pull it out through your teeth, and the beans pop into your mouth. mmm mmmm delightful.

http://www.evergreenseeds.com/evergreenseeds/edsoyed.html

Love,

Val