2.6 dueling dragons

[clarissa]

What's going on with these dragons? What are they fighting about? Whatever the reason it seems to be pretty exhausting.

[bradford_h]

it's in the nature of duel-ism
one is always injured

[jesed]

His Clarissa

Just in case the commentary can be usefull

According with traditional teachings:

Line 6 is the Sage's or the Heaven's site. In hexagram 2 is a warning: if you try to get a site that is not for you, you are being arrogant and will be harm (the line 6 of hexagram 2 shows an injust rebelion against the real dragon; is something like the myth of Lucifer against God in cristianism. But cristians won't say that God was harmed too http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif )

Best wishes

[hmesker]

Since my website is down for 3 days already because of a DDoS attack of the server on which it resides, I give myself a little more time to think and ponder. And pondering about 2-6 I thought, does it really mean 'fighting dragons in the wild'? I mean, why would a dragon, such a wonderful and highly venerated creature, fight with someone of his own kind? It sounds odd to me. The Chinese text does not explicitly say that there is more than one dragon, so it could equally be one. But then zhan, 'war/fight' does not make sense.

At 2-6 it says that 'its blood is dark yellow'. There is one creature which has yellow blood: the silkworm, or more specific, the Bombyx Mandarina. It is generally agreed that the domestic silkworm, B. mori, was derived from the wild silkworm, B. Mandarina, about 5,000 years ago in China (http://aedes.biosci.arizona.edu/PDFPapers/ref147.pdf). Pondering: could long, 'dragon', refer to a silkworm? zhan can also mean 'struggle', or 'tremble, shiver'. 'A silkworm struggling/trembling in the open field' could be a silkworm which has just come out of his cocoon, bringing his wings to full development. Or, since it talks about blood, maybe the moth was injured. Would that be a bad omen?

But if we look at the dragon/silkworm in hexagram 1, what does it mean that 'the silkworm is hidden' and should not be used? Line 2, 'seeing silkworms in the cultivated field' makes more sense. But the 6th line? Nah.

Pondering, pondering.....

Harmen.

[jesed]

Hi Harmen

I liked so much your web, and thougts.

Just in case it could be usefull:
Let's not forget that the comentaries of the lines (acoording with tradition, of course) are derived from the structure of the hexagram.

In this case: hex 1 is Heaven and Force or Energy(so is simbolized by a heavenly and energical animal: the dragon) and hex 2 is Earth and Field and Docility (so is simbolized by an "earthly" and docil animal).

Now, Line 6. Is the top line/place, an extreme or excess. And because of being a secuencial hexagram, a warning.

The top place should be used by yang energy(heaven...) but in hex 2 is used by yinn energy (earth..) So, the line 6 in hex 2 is not correct, is injustice.

And because the complete hexagram is about docility (total yinn), the injustice is that yinn energy had lose it's docility triyng to use a yang place... so it's become a "false yang".

This is simbolized by a false dragon fighting against the real drag?n... a rebeli?n, a lack of docility because of excessive ego.. and so on.

You asked: "why would a dragon, such a wonderful and highly venerated creature, fight with someone of his own kind?" According with traditional teachings, is because real dragon is not fighting against "someone of his own kind" but against a false one.

Best wishes

[bruce]

Harmen - Godzilla meets Mothra?

[hmesker]

Hi Jesed,

Although I do not want to rule out the possibility that the text is 'derived from the structure of the hexagram', I do not want to use it as a guide for translating the text. That is a personal choice, of course.

You say that the top line denotes an extreme, an excess. I agree, but I do not see a 'warning' in 2-6, just a description of something that is observed.

If the author(s) of the text meant to talk about the fight of a real dragon with a false dragon, I think they would specifically mention that. Nevertheless I find your interpretation valuable.

I still like they idea of long as 'silkworm', though. I found an oracle bone inscription in the Jiaguwen Zidian where the character for 'silk' is used in the same sentence with 'dragon', I have to decipher it yet. Food for thought. The picture of the dragon on oracle bones could equally well be a silkworm, considering the long tail (= silk thread?) it has.

Bruce - let's keep it to one: Mozilla. Still my favourite browser....

Warm wishes,

Harmen.

[hmesker]

P.S.: website is back online.

[bruce]

Don?t know if this is useable, or not.

I received 2.6 just before an awkward event, with a group of people that had split apart (relating gua to 2.6, btw) over a company takeover. There were quite a few hard feelings yet among the group. Since I was the first to see the writing on the wall, I resigned from my job and group before the takeover began, and was considered something of a rebel/black sheep. (I know, hard to imagine.) The group was pretty upset with me for leaving, since I was their supervisor. All this made the setting for my 2.6 reading.

The reading made me paranoid as hell, looking here and there for the big fight between light and dark that would surely ensue, but it never came. The house-party reunion was entirely fun and friendly.

So where was 2.6? In my paranoia! I should have read LiSe?s translation:

Above 6: Dragons struggle in the wild. Their blood is black and yellow.
Not accepting fate means one brings about a life full of difficulties. One does not only fight what happens, but more than anything else one fights one's own soul. Accept life the way it is and cherish it, then any life will be a good life.

[hilary]

I looked at my notes on 2.6 and found something I copied and pasted from Steve Marshall - I think it must have been either on his blog or on a list, so hopefully he won't mind having it posted here.

<blockquote>?I asked about the outcome of the Tiananmen Square student occupation in 1989 and got the top line of hexagram 2 a couple of days before the tanks went in: 'Dragons battling in the wilds. Their blood is black and yellow.'

Traditionally this line is seen as revolutionaries taking on a much stronger power (a dragon-like challenge to the ruling dragon). The stronger power quashes them but both sides are injured in the process (injury to the ruling dragon was the Chinese government's loss of standing in the world). Of course, in the past a dragon-like challenge to the the ruling dragon has sometimes resulted in revolution and change of dynasty, and so roles are reversed, it turns out the ruling dragon was in fact the false dragon, it had lost the mandate of heaven. In the case of Tiananmen, however, all the students had was moral power. Had they had firepower and a strategy it could well have been a different story. The image of the man who stopped the column of tanks is unlikely to be forgotten. Who is the true dragon, ask yourself that when looking at that picture.?</blockquote>

[bruce]

VERY interesting.

[jte]

I like this bit from the commentary in Brad's translation, too. I think it fits well with *some* of the situations that 2.6 can refer to...

"This is not a power struggle: power does not struggle. It is force exhausting itself. This would be sad enough if it didn?t spill out of the mind and chop up the world."

- Jeff

[kevin]

And the Relating Hexagram 23 gives us a clue too, I think.

For me it belies the 'Mating Dragons' perspective.

--Kevin

[kevin]

I am unsure of the concept of Force being used in reference to Hexagram 2... Unless it is The arrogance of the Supple which has reached such a fullness it presumes to Force?.

--Kevin

[bruce]

yang opposing yang makes darkness

[kevin]

Greetings Mr B - I don't think I've understood your idea...

Appart from the top line changing to a Yang... Where is the other?

And I am not sure Hx.2 is quite 'darkness'... and it existed before the two dragons appeared in the top line text...

err... Yes - I am missing your point here I am sure.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif

--Kevin

[bruce]

Hi Mr K,

You're right. Too short. Details, details! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif

2 IS darkness, first off. I didn't say nor mean badness, but yin is the dark, just as the moon has no light but that which is reflected off it from the sun.

When yin and yang meet, there is relatedness, just as when a positive contacts a ground in an electrical current. But two positive wires makes no electricity, therefore no light.

The pretense of line 6 is that of being yang. Having a yang face doesn't make it so, however. Force + force - grounding = no force, no light, no electricity, hence only darkness.

But I know this without using numbers or the I Ching. My weakened heart tells me this is so. When I am relaxed and open (yin), my heart functions with ease. Or, when I use force (yang) and the other party is relaxed and open, my heart also functions with ease. But when I use force (yang) and the other party is also using force (yang), my heart closes, becomes inert, cramped and very darkened, very much like the effect/affect of line 6 in 2: both suffer. So my short comment above was not at all thought out. It didn?t need to be. My heart tells me it?s so. That?s why I?m learning to avoid meeting power with power, within and without. I?d rather live in the light. It?s impossible to make love and argue at the same time. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

[kevin]

Sigh... That was good.

Or force where receptiveness is appropriate?... yes, I am with you now.

Glad you have not gone mad... yet http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

--Kevin

[bruce]

Yes, yang/force is amoral, in the way I'm intending it. Yin as well.

Oh, well, madness. Yes, that. Um, well, too late to turn back from that I'm afraid. But at least I'm happy this way. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/crazy.gif

[bradford_h]

Everybody just ignored my little duel-ism pun,
but look at it in terms of splitting apart.
Wholeness is compromised here. Two colors of
blood are shed. No good comes of this fantasy
of half the world VERSUS the other.

[bruce]

d'oh! Yeah, it was a mite obscure. But memorable. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[kevin]

Indeed Brad...

And everyone ignored my comments on 23 too.

And that large fruit looks particularly interesting when viewed from this angle.

Looking again at 23 as a Tidal Gua with the moon all but 'eaten away' just before the dark of the new moon... there is a large fruit uneaten... the last bright line of the wane.

And will it not give in to the change in 2.6?

Just floating images down the stream... a Pooh Stick off the bridge.

--Kevin

[bruce]

"a Poo Stick off the bridge"

Mr K, now that's an interesting title!

[kevin]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[bradford_h]

Hi-
Just a note on "qi xue xuan huang"
they bleed indigo (and) golden, or
their blood (is) indigo (and) gold
Clearly wht they have in common is blood,
despite their differences, which, relative
to living are superficial. Xuan is the
average color of night, and the study of
the mysterious is called Xuanxue. Huang is
the average color of the day and light.
Technically it's more of a light yellow-
brown, like the loess soils in central China,
the background color of Hilary's website and
mine, and, not so coincidentally, the average
color of the Univese:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020702.html
(Hilary's also has indigo, extreme left)
Huang is best translated gold, however, to
impart the subjective value which this color was
given by the ancient Chinese, and it Was the
color name given to both bronze and gold.

[bruce]

Brad, interesting. This is where 'yellow is the color of the mean' comes from then, I assume.

So are you saying that the color of blood isn't especially significant in 2.6? but more the contrast of elements themselves?

[bradford_h]

The color of the blood might be the very reason for the battle. The fact of blood itself is the reason for the reconciliation of these opposites, back into the harmony and wholeness that is the theme of Hexagram 02.

[bradford_h]

This brings up a point about Zhi Gua too.
Splitting apart is the direction it's headed
"If You Don't Watch Out". Sometimes it can be a warning sign.
Coming back, in 23.6, things are returning to
wholeness, following a difficult time, where the conflict or
difficulty "just sort of resolved itself for the best", the real
meaning of the phrase "it's all good".

[kevin]

Duplicated post.

[kevin]

Hmm - 23 Stripping down and getting to the essentials is the direction it is headed too.

Back to foundations - releasing the core essence rather than getting tangled up in the arogant stuff.

Sadly for other folk I ate the large fruit cos' no-one wanted to come and talk about it.

The line,23.6, saddly, is now...
'Wu shuo guo bu shi
jun zi shi maozi!!!'

But instead of, "Well mate, you see one dragon has dark blue blood and the other yellow so that's why they are fighting like." Perhaps?

If Xue were to be representative of the mysterious what might indigo be representative of that it is, possibly, the symbol of the difference here?

--Kevin

Maozi is a rather modern word for hat btw

[kevin]

Nope I am definitely confused tonight...

Xuanxue - black blood...

However huang - yellow / gold - is often used to indicate spiritual / religiously important things - like the yellow oxhide...

So the Q. remains... What are the colours possibly representing here?

--Kevin

[bradford_h]

Hi Kevin-
picking some nits here-

Xuan is the color of night and mystery
Xue is studies, as in Yixue or Yijing studies.

It's also important to make a distinction between fan yao (23.6) and zhi gua (23.0). Very different dimensions. Both happen to be relevant here, but in different ways.

[bradford_h]

sorry Kevin-
Now I see the confusion.
The xue in 02.6 is blood.
The xue in xuanxue is studies.
Gazillions of homonyms in Chinese.

[kevin]

Hi Brad

But Xue is also blood? No?

Cough, I think you will be aware that I probably understand the difference in the dimensions you mention.

When activity is taking place in a line of a hexagram I think it is also useful to see what is happening in the same line of the relating figure too.

What does it mean? Don't ask me... but it is interesting to have a look and to feel around the images. As if that line, were flickering... the two possibilities coming in and out of existence... momentarily one and then the other? It is a moment of moving away from 'the framework' and allowing the images, Xiang if you prefer, to mix and develop around a hot spot? or where the time of the line is old and changing.

I am still intrigued with the Yellow and indigo question... any thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks

--Kevin

[kevin]

Ahh, we are crossing posts Brad...

--Kevin

[kevin]

Thinks on comments above re. 'hotspot'... Yes, not as well developed or formal as fan yao or Crossline Omens... interesting nevertheless.

--K

[bruce]

Too confusing. Will continue to just listen to my heart.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/heart.gif

[bradford_h]

but...but..
that's all systolic and diastolic and auricles and ventricles and efferent and afferent and arterial and venous stuff...
Then, just when you think you got the heart figured out, then comes girls...

K-
Not blood in Xuanxue. Different characters.
For each of the 411 pinyin words there are an average
of 20 different characters, each with an average of five
different sets of meanings.
This is why they do better on IQ tests than we do-
they grow up having to figure this damn language out.

[kevin]

Sorry it is confusing Bruce. (Seriously) and I take confusing for, 'Heart does not feel it is good for it' Fine...

They are just images like a dream or of music heard from a distance? the Yi speaks to me more clearly that way.

I have got off my butt and gone and had a look around.

Thanks Brad:

Wen Yan Zhuan... from your Matrix...

02.6wy e. yin yi yu yang xin zhan: Yin?s doubt in Yang?s heart (is a) struggle; wei qi xian yu tian yang.: (of) action upon this distrust of heavenly Yang.; gu cheng long yan: therefore it is styled a dragon here; you wei li qi lei.: while still not apart from its kind.; gu chengxue yan: therefore there is mention of blood here; fu xuan huang zhe: and so of indigo and gold here; tian di zhi za.: the bleeding together of heaven and earth.; tian xuan er di huang: heaven is indigo and earth golden.

Sorry to have pressed you. Very rude when you have already gone to the trouble to make this available.

--Kevin

[bruce]

Don't be sorry, Mr K. I enjoy all that's being discussed. Even Brad's warped sense of humor http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif. But I choose what to invest in, and sometimes that's a simple matter of aptitude.

[heylise]

Thinking about the dragons.. and thinking about this thread. I really like reading it, I like the atmosphere.

Could it be that you guys are at the moment dragons struggling in the wild? The line does not say anything about its being negative. It can be very negative of course. But maybe it only says: dragons CAN struggle in the wild. Their blood has very different colors, and the reason why they want to struggle. But it does not necessarily mean shedding that blood.

It could easily be a reason for a real fight. Seeing each other as opposite, opponent. Letting suspicion, dislike, contempt and such things enter, and weapons of attack and defense. But when the dragons use their yin, being opposite turns into being complementary. The totally different view on things becomes an advantage. It makes for an interesting discussion.

The fanyao: "The big fruit is not eaten. The noble one acquires a sedan chair, the small man strips the hut".
The noble one is the dragon who can fight in a positive way. He grows through the confrontation, or makes other people or things grow, like science, insight, understanding. Through this positive confrontation new discoveries are made, cooperations which yield things one single person could never accomplish, or simply a good discussion.
A small person is not able to do this, he gets annoyed or worse and pulls a real or verbal knife, he strips the hut.

LiSe

[heylise]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/5140.gif

Opposite or complementary?

[hilary]

Superb thread - thanks, everyone.

What does hexagram 2 do?
One possible answer: allows, sustains, makes possible, provides what's needed.

What does hexagram 23 do?
One possible answer: tears down and destroys what has outlived its usefulness. (Or just 'out-existed' its life.)

The way 23.6 moves towards 2 seems clear: taking the uneaten fruit out into the field to plant it! And having the resources to see the earth extending out in all directions, and get a cart to travel out into it - rather than having your vision stop at your (crumbling) four walls.

(24.1 as a different perspective on this also makes intuitive sense. I think 'merely repenting' or 'stopping at repenting' would be basically the same gesture as stripping the hut.)

What happens when 2 moves towards 23? Maybe it is lending strength to stripping away, providing what is needed to tear down the old? Which might be antagonism or mutual destruction. Does anything survive a dragon fight except the field?

Synchronicity?
I signed up yesterday to receive emails from zaadz.com. The first one came today, with the subject line 'The Combat':
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

"I desire only to know the truth, and to live as well as I can...And, to the utmost of my power, I exhort all other men to do the same...I exhort you also to take part in the great combat, which is the combat of life, and greater than every other earthly conflict."
~ Socrates<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

[lightofdarkness]

in the binary sequence 2 and 23 are the EXPRESSIONS of the previous five lines they share. 2 expresses the unconditional aspect, 23 the conditional.

If we focus on the competitive then 02 reflects total darkness and 23 reflects the last bastion of light. (or one's interpretation of such)

If we focus on the cooperative then 02 reflects the positive of darkness, the place of fertility etc and so the female and the act of devotion to another/others. In this case 23 reflects the particular aspect of devotion in the form of 'housekeeping', exaggerated into clearing away the 'chaff' to bring out one's 'preferred' faith.

Line 6 of 23 is interpretable as:

Line 6
"Some things are allowed to remain for they will redevelop in the future. The superior go on their way. The inferior suffer as always."

This covers the action of getting down to the core and so the act of pruning - we strip until we reach a QUALITATIVE position where we leave it to develop in the next 'cycle' - Without that sense of quality we mow the flowers as well as the weeds and dont understand what happened.

This 'going too far' is reflected in line 6 of 02:

Line 6
"One goes too far in that one fights with one's centre of belief. Unwise."

Note the aire of conditionality in 23 vs that of unconditionality in 02 - to the point of devouring oneself - as a black hole draws in all light, unconditionally.

IOW BOTH lines cover the issues of going too far - 23 makes the note that with a sense of discernment so we can avoid that (mountain in top is discernment), but in 02 the unconditional focus can become manic. - we move into the realm of 01.... yin into yang, cooperative into competitive...

[bradford_h]

Hiya LiSe-
RE: Long Zhan Yu Ye
I know you have dictionaries that I don't have,
but I've never seen any definitions for Zhan besides
warfare, battle, combat, contest, fighting
do battle, join battle, fight, contend, be at war,
except one set of meanings
to fear, tremble, shudder, shiver.
I just don't see much playfulness here.

Just a side anecdote here, though-
I once overheard a conversation between a young father and his adorable little girl, about six years old. They were outside a tent. He was getting her ready for a day outdoors at a picnic. She was saying: "I don't want to wear my princess dress today, Daddy. I want to wear something I can get blood on".
Now that was a girl ready for some serious playing.

[bruce]

It?s the imaginary opposition that?ll blood let indigo and yellow, me thinks. The gods just have to laugh at that, though it doesn?t feel like play to us.

[kevin]

I was going to thank this person or that... Can't, much good stuff here...

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

--Kevin

BTW... I was doing that 'flicking images back and forth in my mind' - between the image of the fighting dragons shedding their blood and the large fruit below on the branch... double take! - The fruit became an egg.

[jte]

It's important to remember that the image of the dragons fighting is a symbol - it doesn't mean just one specific thing. It depends on context, question, questioner, etc.

So the yin "servant" power/role has gotten too full - it's become too powerful. The yang now naturally steps in to whittle it down to an acceptable size. The yin is powerful enough that the yang cannot do this without some collateral damage to itself in the process... furthermore, why destroy a useful servant/necessary complement? A good shaking up is really all that's necessary... And it *is* necessary, and, after all, wounds heal up in time...

I think *one possible* situation this line applies to is when you've gotten to the point where you're enough in harmony with the Tao/the spirits/the will of the universe (or whatever it is) that you start to get lots of synchronicities. This sort of thing becomes natural to you - so natural, that you start to think that "you're in charge".

So, you start trying to exert your will to generate synchronicities. But, in reality, you are *not* in charge. You're just a very, very small part of a much, much bigger universe. And so the Tao/the spirits/the universe/whatever it is starts letting you know. And so the universe starts going a little crazy for a while (synchronistically) - shaking you up, letting you know that you're *not* in charge...

A dangerous sitution. For a while. Until you learn your place. And after some time, the wounds heal up and you're ready to continue "harmonizing", but a little wiser for the experience.

*Harmony with* vs. *control over* - it can seem like a subtle difference, but in some situations it can be quite an important one...

- Jeff

[auriel]

2.6
don't tell me how to run my life!
23.6
crazy old hermit lionized!

[angela]

Hello everyone

I am extremely new to this, so please forgive me if I get everything wrong, but I just wanted to throw in my two-penn'orth with regard to the fighting dragons in 2.6.

As I understand it, dragons are symbols of creativity. When I drew 2.6 recently I had reason to believe that, for me, the warring dragons represented conflicted aspects of my creative self: the academic versus the artistic. Don't know if that has any resonance with you.

Also, LiSe suggested above that the dragons are fighting in the wild. Now, at the moment I only have Wilhelm's translation to go on; but the word there is 'meadow' not 'wild'. Looking at that with my landscape archaeologist's hat on I see not a wilderness but a seasonally flooded field that, come summer, provides rich pasturage for whatever needs to graze on it. In other words, not a wild place but a fertile place. If we link that to the idea of 'creativity' then the meadow could be the imagination, or simply the mind (where aspects of oneself war). Or it could be some external fertile place akin to the well in Hex 48.

Hope I'm not too far out with my beginner's interpretation and that this is of some use.

Angela xx

[bruce]

Hi Angela,

I too am only a novice of I Ching, even though I?ve been knocking on its door for over three decades. As such, I like your interpretation of 2.6 very much. One thing I?ve learned after coming to this forum some years ago is that, there is life after Wilhelm.

Welcome!

[rosella]

When the power of the leader is challenged, he fights.

The mare has the strength to follow the stallion.
In 2.6 she is tempted/drawn into leading rather than following. It is against her nature to be the creative one, though at 2.6 her strength is estimable.
A battle will ensue should she lead. Both mare and stallion are injured.
Power struggles are exhausting. It's wasted energy.

Midnight blue is the colour of Heaven and gold is the colour of Earth (the colour of the Emperor's clothes if I'm not mistaken.)
As Heaven's representative on Earth, the emperor did well to remember his place.

[void]

Jeff I wonder why you call yin the "servant power" ? Its not servant to yang, it is equal and complementary.

[bruce]

Ti Ming

I just got 2.6-23. Here?s the picture. It?s nothing at all dire, but it is what?s going on.

For the last 10 months or so, my ?newish? computer occasionally goes through a spasm period, freezing and quitting. You all know the frustration of losing a long document you were working on, or just having the machine freeze up while doing something. So I bought a large power conditioner, to ?clean? the power to the computer. This area is known for dirty power delivery. Didn?t work. Bought a UPS as a backup. Still freezes and quits. Finally, I just replaced the internal power supply with a 500 watt, 2 fan job. We?ll see what happens. If it still messes up, a new hard drive goes in. (ouch)

After months of this, and running back and forth this morning to the ?puter shop (was just called by them to tell me they forgot to install a screw to hold the door on), my stomach is in a big knot. I like to keep my temperament on an even keel, so I asked Yi what?s going on inside and how to adjust it. 2.6 ? 23.

Like I said, nothing at all dire, but I think a good case study: I just need to chill and let go of the situation.

[jte]

Void, that's just my take on it. Yes, a complementary power and equaly necessary in the scheme of things, but also "taking the lower place" in terms of authority from most of what I've read.

Sun and moon are equally necessary for life, but if you had to pick which one is "in charge" - which would it be?

Ultimately, I'm not a Yin/Yang philosopher; I just gather what I can from what I read and personal experience. So, that's just how I see it.

- Jeff

[peace]

Hi Bruce:

Maybe 2.6 - 23 means that computer is breaking down and it's time to just buy another one and stop being frustrated. In the end it will save you time, money and emotional stress. Dell has some inexpensive ones. I have a Dell laptop and have never had a problem (not even a crash in 3 years).

Rosalie

[bruce]

Hi Rosalie,

Good thoughts, but my question was about my inner workings, not the computer's. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

I upgraded the power supply and power conditioner/backup, and it still clicks. Pretty sure now it's the hard drive. Not a big thing. Just deciding whether to start from scratch with the new hard drive or ghost everything from this one to the new one. This one is plenty powerful for my use, and it's only a little over two years old. Lots of life left in it, just like in me!

Thanks!

[heylise]

http://www.thework.com/AboutTheWork1.asp

...because they have seen that arguing with reality is painful and hopeless. When this is truly realized, we don't have to stop these arguments--they stop themselves. The result is peace beyond what we had hoped to find through our endless arguing.

[lightofdarkness]

arguement reflects the same dynamics the brain uses in paradox processing - IOW it is 'instinctive' - part of or being.

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html