A strange (IMO) reading on Hurricane Katrina

[ellenj]

I asked this question last Sunday morning (10:30 a.m. EST) before Katrina actually hit land. At the time, they thought it would hit smack dab on New Orleans, very possibly at Category 5 strength. As it turned out it hit ever so slightly to the east at Category 4 strength.

Q: "What effect will Hurricane Katrina have on New Orleans?"

A: 29, Dangerously Deep, lines 4 and 5, changing to 40, Liberation

Line 4:
"A jug of wine, a bowl of rice with it;
Earthen vessels simply handed in through the window. There certainly is no blame in this."

Line 5:
"The abyss is not filled to overflowing, It is filled only to the rim. No blame."

Hexagram 29
Okay, this by itself makes sense (water over water, The Abysmal, Dangerously Deep). Perfect description.

But Hexagram 40, Deliverance/Liberation?
Well, people certainly have been 'liberated' all right - from their homes, businesses, loved ones...we've all been 'liberated' from an historical, unique, and beautiful city. But isn't this hexagram usually used in the sense of liberation as a GOOD thing, that you'd feel relieved about? As in, 'Yippee, school's out!'? Hardly the case here.

Yes, New Orleans has a decadent side. My own opinion is that we maybe can allow a place on this huge planet for Mardi Gras? - and besides, that's not all it was. People who think it was Satan's playground, entirely irredeemable, and deserved exactly what it got...well, I don't agree, it's my post and I'm not talkin' to you :P, and you're probably not on this board to begin with.

(Well, okay, http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/shame.gif to be fair and a better discussion-mate, if that is honestly what you think, and more to the point what you think Yi is saying, please do say so...)

Hex 29 Line 4:
Fair enough. A good description of what's happening with food, shelter, and other basic necessities. (Well, right this second it's NOT so much happening, but it will.)

Hex 29 Line 5:
Excuse me?! I suppose this is technically correct; if New Orleans is the 'abyss' into which the lake, the river, and the Gulf of Mexico is pouring, it can only fill up so far, to an equilibrium level. Duuuh.

But considering I asked this question Sunday morning - I think a Gallup poll would have thought that this meant the part where Katrina DID NOT hit the city head on at full strength, that it would NOT be as bad as possible, whew.

Especially since the translation I was using said for this line: "The dark waters of this pit will rise no higher. Your greatest danger now lies in panic. Keep your wits and you will escape."

Especially ALSO in conjunction with hexagram 40.

Which, of course, is NOT AT ALL what ultimately happened!

Now I do realize that the absolute worst of it was not technically Katrina, it was the levees bursting.

I also realize that the relatively reassuring interpretation WAS true at the time I did the reading.

However, I think this is a mighty fine line for Yi to be drawing with line 5 and hexagram 40. If I'd tried such an oh-so-clever use of the dictionary and the clock with my mother, I'd have been emphatically told to stop being a smart-aleck.

Okay, this post is obviously a l'il one-sided rant at Yi. But there's always a different way to look at it - particularly when it involves me trying to interpret the I Ching (and me being rant-y http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif). Just because I have a bad opinion of the reading right now doesn't mean my mind can't be changed (it's happened quite often with readings!) - and no matter what, it might be a good reading to learn from, since it's a news story and we objectively know what's going on and so forth.

So what do the rest of you make of it?

(BTW, I have no personal ties to New Orleans at all, wasn't motivated that way, just did the reading out of curiousity while watching TV coverage.)

[jesed]

HI Hellen

Just in case the commentarie could be useful

Of course, I know the real outcome so there is a risk that I "fit" my reading to reality. But I'll try to say how I would read the answer before it happens:

ACOORDING WITH TRADITIONAL TEACHINGS
1.- Beacuse it is a "predictive question", related hexagram is the tendence ot future.

2.- Hex 29 (water all over) transforming to 40 (broken levee). The efect Katrina will have on New Orleans is that there will so much water that levees will be open or destroid.

3.- Line 4 New Orleans must provide enought food to its population to survive

4.- Line 5 New Orleans must watch closely it levees in order they don't get overfilled

So, summary: there is a risk of levees will be broken because of Katrina. The advice is avoid levees get overfill; and recolect surviving food for population.

Best wishes

[hester]

sick to my stomach, seeing what is happening in N.O.

[bruce]

You're not alone, Hester. But through even the worst of nature's storm, and the worst of human examples, there, still the heart of man's goodness shines. Love and fortitude will prevail.

[peace]

My daughter and son-in-law live in NO and are stranded there.
He is a doctor at the hospital and she's an attorney.

For the past few days I have gone from feeling they were fine to believing they were evacuated (based on news reports) and sent to the Superdome (i.e. sewer) which was where all new patients were being sent the past few days since they could only get them into the hospital by helicopter because there is a nine foot moat around the hospital.

I heard from them for the first time a few hours ago - and wouldn't you know it, it didn't ring on my cell and it went to voicemail.

They said they were ok - had food and water but very critical situation for patients that were still there -about 250.

They ask that we put the info out in newspapers, networks and politicians to do something. No one has delivered any supplies there at all. The hospital only has what they had before the hurricane.

We've been calling anyone who could possibly make a difference.(in the US or outside of the US)

If you are so inclined and know anyone influential - they are at University Hospital in New Orleans. There are 4 hospitals in the same complex. The larger two have been almost fully evacuated. Charity Hospital and University Hospital are the smaller of the two. I don't know about Charity, but University Hospital is where they are.

Thanks,
Rosalie

[bruce]

Very glad your loved ones are safe, Rosalie.

There's help on the way from this region, in the form of financial aid and S&R teams, including more doctors and nurses. National Guard units have also been dispatched. I'm sure other regions are responding likewise.

[val]

Heartbreaking.

It all looks very frightening. People without food and water for very long can get very aggressive. And I've heard that's what's happening. The dangers are so serious that the search and rescue was called off? That's bad. Our night manager and one of our colorists are from Mississippi and said the dangers in the water are worse than disease... the water mocassins and alligators are no longer confined to the swamps and bayous and are swimming down the flooded streets now. They said water mocassins are so aggressive, they will climb right into your boat to attack you. *shivers*

My parent company donated $1 million designated for the storm area yesterday to their Red Cross partners. I'm sure many other major corporations have been at least as generous. And our affiliate network is airing a telethon tomorrow night. I heard Germany offered to help yesterday as well. I hope massive amounts of food and water are delivered there soon before the violence gets too bad.

Love,

Val

[val]

Hi Ellenj...

I have a thought about the 29 to 40 you got.

Danger... dangerous nature... unleashed.

How many times have I heard poets and meteorologists use something like the term 'nature unleashed' to describe storms?

Many.

Love,

Val

[ellenj]

Jesed: Thanks for your comments!

What you're saying makes sense, but - and I know you were specifically trying to guard against this - I do think it makes more sense in hindsight...sorry.

I'm relatively new to the I Ching and so my experience is limited, but I've gotten the impression that hexagram 40 and line 5 of hexagram 29 are meant to be favorable, reassuring, sense-of-relief sort of things. I've not come across evidence or commentary to the contrary - which certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Gotta say, though, that when I did this reading on Sunday morning, in the context of the weather situation, the storm track, and what knowledgeable people were saying at the time, I thought it was a pretty straigtforward confirmation that New Orleans was going to dodge a bullet. Either Katrina would lessen in strength, or veer away from the city, or both.

Which is exactly what happened...it veered just enough, and weakened just enough, that instead of total destruction they had 'merely' a helluva mess. (Which, by all reports, actually was enough to make people feel relieved, God bless 'em.) This fit in very well with my impression of 29.5.

Then the levees burst. Back to the total destruction, and my original reasons for starting this thread.

Bruce: I've read a number of your posts and I generally like what you say and how you say it, but this time not so much...in many many ways it's not going to be okay. No la la chirp chirp, no 'Love & Peace, man...'. It's not okay now, it's not going to be okay later - in a lot of ways it will NEVER EVER be okay. It's just GONE, period, if what they're saying is accurate.

Rosalie: I hope your efforts produce some results, and thank goodness you at least got some word from your daughter and her husband. Personally I know no influential people of any kind anywhere (understatement!), so all I can offer is sympathy...

The doctors obviously stayed with the hospital (which apparently somehow escaped being flooded? thank goodness) but you're kind of raising a good point - the people we normally count on to fix things live there too! They were all in JUST as much of a life-threatening situation as everybody else, and under JUST as much of an imperative to evacuate the city on Saturday! If, say, the electric company employees had stayed, thinking they'd be needed to fix the electricity, what was to prevent them from being stranded on their OWN rooftops? They haven't explained that kind of detail on the news that I've seen.

Val: Yay! to your company. Who are they? They're doing a good thing; give 'em a plug. (if you're allowed to.)

What you said about the dangers - this is what makes this WORSE (at any particular given spot) than the tsunami. The tsunami came in, knocked everything down, and LEFT. Here, the water came in, knocked everything down, and IS SITTING THERE.

Your thought about 29 to 40 - yeah, I see your point...but it's nagging at me that there's another hexagram that might fit that better? Can't think of it, tho, might be dreaming.

Still inclined to stick with my original impressions of 40, though - largely because 29 line 5 is there too...

[jesed]

Hi Ellen

It's OK. Just a little thing. Not every people en New Orleans was feeling relieved after Katrina. Too many deaths then; and so much desperated people now (cnn had postted today: "New Orleans hospital takes gunfire"; hope everybody is OK there). The emotional "taste" in New Orleans is not release but desperation, I think.

But WATH IF New Orleans' authorities was "watch closely it levees in order they don't get overfilled" and "recolect surviving food for population" in time? Maybe.. just maybe... the release, an emotional release, would arrive after Katrina.

(Right now, CNN had published that before Katrina arrived to NO, Ivor van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center vor van Heerden, adviced the authorities: "computer models suggest that more than 80 percent of buildings would be badly damaged or destroyed... The levees intended to protect the city vary in height, from as low as 10 feet above sea level to about 14 feet. They too are vulnerable because they are made of earth...So, we're looking at a bowl full of highly contaminated water with contaminated air flowing around and, literally, very few places for anybody to go where they'll be safe")

[ellenj]

Sorry, Jesed...I can't explain my way out of a paper bag most of the time.

When I said there was 'relief,' I meant before the levees burst. This reading was done Sunday morning, before Katrina even hit shore.

And anyway, what relief there was before the levee problem was VERY relative. It was still a disaster - just not as bad (in New Orleans), as if Katrina would have hit head on at full strength. If it would have stopped at that point, the situation now would be better than it is.

-----------------------------------------

Out of curiosity, I wonder why Yi didn't decide to just give 29 unchanging?

Seriously - because in addition to the obvious 'water' aspect, there's also the 'endlessly repeating' aspect. Danger upon danger. Every problem growing legs: they want to do X, but they can't because X relies on Y and Z, and they can't fix Y or Z because they each depend on other broken things, ad infinitum.

Pretty good description of two major aspects of the actual situation, without any 29.5 and 40 confusion.

But Yi didn't do that...and if we assume (as we should, I think!) that Yi means what it says and says what it means - I wonder why not?

[micheline]

Gas prices here in NEW YORK are at $3.25 a gallon and climbing.
Tonight I went to get gas and there were already lines, and most cars in line were the huge SUV type that must take 75.00 + worth of gas at a shot. Maybe more
This situation will affect everyone in the country.
I think Americans have to start thinking *simple*. BUt somehow I think it will need to reach crisis proportions before that happens... as if this isnt crisis enough .

A major 22.1 would be helpful.....but most americans dont even want to walk across the parking lot.

I consider myself a survivalist. I have a stockpile of stuff near my basement door that I could throw in the trunk and which would enable my family and I to survive for a few weeks in a tent. BUt that's sounds kinda lame right now. I dont know that americans in general have what it takes to be true survivalists, myself included. And we may all have to learn about that, after all.

I feel kind of vulnerable right now..and my heart is certainly with all those wandering sad hungry homeless people. Love to all.

[jesed]

Hi


Just in case the commentarie could be useful:

"I wonder why Yi didn't decide to just give 29 unchanging?"

There IS a reason, according with traditional teachings:

Yi Jing answer with unchanging hexagrams WHEN the outcome is not in our control; the outcome doesn't depends on our choices. We just can learn from that situation, but not influence it.

But, when we still have some influence on the final outgoing (even tiny inluence), Yi Jing give us some particular advices. Those particular advices are the Changing Lines. That's why I would read those lines in your answer as advices in order to get release (in order to open the levees and avoid that levees were broken)

Best wishes

[ellenj]

"Gas prices here in NEW YORK are at $3.25 a gallon and climbing."

Yes. However: the Gulf of Mexico accounts for 8 to 10 percent (I've heard both) of our national consumption, and President Bush is going to open the emergency reserves.

So I'm pretty much with those who think that someone, somewhere is using this hurricane as a big old fat EXCUSE. Those someones ought to be kept busy bailing the Mississippi River out of peoples living rooms.

Micheline...I don't know you and am merely responding to the sentences you wrote, but, please, just think about (1) the many many MANY reasons why it's not that simple, (2) the vast ramifications of what you're suggesting, if it was actually carried out, and (3) the fact that if I - far away from Katrina - agree that what you're saying 'sounds kinda lame right now,' how it would go over with anyone who's affected.

See, though, how brittle WE'RE getting, just sitting at our computers nice and dry? Me with my more-than-a-little-bit of anger at the Cosmos and my poking at Yi, Micheline on a soapbox...I honestly don't blame the folks down there who are acting out. Shooting at people - no. But, really, if somebody manages to loot a television, lug it through that mess, find a place to keep it safe for who-know-how-long, AND IT WORKS (ha!)- maybe more power to 'em, in a way.

[ellenj]

Jesed,

I didn't know that about unchanging hexagrams, that they indicate a situation we can't influence even a little bit. Interesting...I'll have to go back and look at my unchanging readings with that in mind.

About your suggestion that Yi was advising us to open the levees on purpose, I'm not following you...how would that have made the end result any better? Wouldn't there have been the exact same catastrophic flooding?

And can you imagine how people would have reacted to THAT? If the politicians would have intentionally opened up perfectly intact levees, flooding the city on purpose, on the chance that they MIGHT later break? Yikes.

Now if your argument is that maybe the levees shouldn't have been built in the first place (making a bowl, as you pointed out) - or that better scientific understanding of why the surrounding swamps and marshes are important would have helped - or that maybe it wasn't the best place to put a city in the first place, 200 years ago - that might all be good stuff to think about. (Except that 200 years ago, with shipping what it was then, and Louisiana what it was then, it was probably a necessary place to put a city, and since then...well, I really believe people do the best they can at the time they're doing it. That doesn't mean they're always right. It just means it's not malicious. And that complicated problems aren't easy to solve.)

But NONE of those things were under ANYBODY'S control last weekend. The question, after all, was "What effect will Hurricane Katrina have on New Orleans?"

Oh wait...are you saying that the 29.5 and 40 part of the answer wasn't about last weekend at all, but it's saying to take care of these things for the future?

(Did I finally get it?)

[sherab]

Hi Ellen, the trigrams in #40 give us the image of a storm (thunder and rain) which can release energy and bring a sense of "Deliverance". Hsieh, the title, also has the meaning of untying knots, of unravelling, letting loose, scattering - though it doesn't really qualify what kind of energy - creative or otherwise. I hear about N.O. - it sounds as if the whole fabric, the web, the system of "knots" that make up a civil society - are all coming untied, without which it becomes an underworld situation - #29 - a dark place without the the container created by the systems and constraints of society... wild, scary - and in need of Deliverance.
Oh my....
Sherab

[micheline]

Ellen, you misinterpret my remarks.
not simplifying anything, just pointing out that americans use A LOT of gas unnecessarily.
also no soap box, not from me! my remarks about survivalism were only meant as a comment on how ill-prepared the people of a wealthy, comfortable culture can be for real dire conditions.
And I think it is worth thinking about for any one in any current state of comfort, not just after a disaster strikes.

[val]

Hi Ellen...

Yeah, I liked your reading a lot. Thought it was chillingly right on really. I just had a thought about nature unleashed. And the reason I thought about it is because I had a discussion about it on either this forum or another some time ago... long enough ago I can't remember where it was... about the power of nature. I said I believed nature was more powerful than man (I've been through some pretty strong earthquakes living most my life in Southern California). A gentleman responded that man is more powerful than nature. I couldn't help but think it must be a very fragile mindset that needs to believe man has that kind of power. And I was just wondering if he still really believes that after the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami and Katrina.

It's heartbreaking to watch how helpless man is to help man in the aftermath of Katrina. The search and rescue called off... I'm so happy to hear that our (California's) swift water rescue teams are there to resume the job. These guys are incredible. It's amazing to watch them in action. They are so well trained.

I loved what you said about the reality of the situation. It's not okay. Even before the levee broke it wasn't okay. It's devastated other beautiful cities in the deep South... wiped some completely off the face of the earth... and taken so many lives.

The violence is very difficult to believe... why rape? Will rape get a man the food and water he needs? The violence isn't impossible to believe though. I spent some time in New Orleans both at Mardi Gras and a few months later and found the general populace much less friendly than the general populace in LA. I'm happy to see the troops landing finally.

My parent company is GE. They've already donated a huge sum to the Red Cross... and this $1 million is on top of that. Additionally, they are matching employee donations, and that will bring in quite a sum of money over time.

I just spoke to our colorist. He still has no idea if his family in New Orleans, Gulfport or Mobile are still alive. His family in Hattisburg is alive. He can't get through by even cell phone to cell phone. He has family in Georgia he barely got through to after a lot of tries. They have no word on the other folks in the storm area... nor do the folks from Hattisburg. I can't imagine not knowing anything about my loved ones for all this time.

Btw, thank you so much for broaching the subject. It seems a few of us really needed to talk about it.

Love,

Val

[val]

Hi Micheline...

Yeah hey! You have my vote for an extended 22.1 in every urban center across the country. I'm all for walking and public transportation. Before I returned to LA, I tried to find work (from Virginia) in "walking" cities like Philadelphia, NY and Boston.

Our night manager has been able to keep in touch (barely) with his family in the north part of Mississippi and told us last night that very strict gas rationing had started there. He warned everyone here he could to buy gas last night... not wait. So I watched the prices at every gas station I passed when I left work. They weren't really any higher than the day before, but I'll be interested to see what they are when I leave this evening.

Love,

Val

[bruce]

Hi Ellen,

I think you are misjudging some here. ?Brittle? isn?t how I feel, nor how Harmen has expressed feeling, nor how anyone on this thread has expressed feeling. Deeply troubled would be a more accurate description, I think. Neither did I suggest ?peace man?, or any such apathetic or shallow response.

All I was trying to say was that it?s not over yet. There?s still time for redemption of the situation, the city and the survivors ? even those who have lost control of their senses with looting and shooting. No, it?s not alright. And for many, it will never be alright. But that has never stopped us before.

Call me an eternal optimist, but when something like this happens to a people, it has the potential to deepen their collective soul. Mourning and recovering has a way of doing that in humans. Lord knows this country?s soul needs deepening.

I understand that you?re angry. I?m angry too! I hurt, and most everyone I?ve spoken with in the last 24 hours is hurting, deeply. I don?t see brittle souls. I see broken and confused hearts.

Help is on the way, and although the deployment was slower than we all may have wished, it is coming. It ain?t over yet.

[ellenj]

Micheline: Sorry...gas prices happen to be a pet peeve of mine, specifically the obsession with them regardless of how high they are (or are not).

Lately, of course, it's been well worth fussing over. What I've peeved about for YEARS, though, is the inordinate attention that gets paid if, for example, the price goes from $1.55/gallon last week, to $1.59/gallon this week, when it was $1.57/gallon 3 weeks ago. Rarely is a local newscast EVER free from mention of gas prices, no matter WHAT. I'm sure you know what I mean, even allowing for my exaggeration to make a point.

Just to reiterate, tho: NOW is completely DIFFERENT and NOT what I'm peeved about.

Val: Ahhh, methinks you work for my favorite network, the one that is so prettily dropping its feathers around my TV set even as we speak.

I agree with you that man is certainly NOT more powerful than nature. I can't fathom where the gentleman you referred to could have been coming from. I'm sure he had SOMETHING in mind, I just can't imagine what.

I can't help relating all this to the famine in Africa. All the aid in the world, of whatever kind, won't really solve anything when people are living IN A DESERT. We should do what we can, but we CAN'T make it rain. It's a horrible feeling, to feel so helpless - whether you're the one needing assistance or the one being looked to to provide it. I sometimes feel as though the world's problems are bigger than the world's ability to solve them, and certainly bigger than the United States can fix.

No, rape won't get anybody anything they need. I doubt that it's even an effective release of anger for the person doing it. For me, anyway, venting my anger hardly ever makes me less angry (tired, maybe, for a little while).

I have no feel for the friendliness, or lack thereof, of New Orleanians. Never been there. I used to hang around with somebody whose b/f (eventual husband) went to Tulane, and he seemed to love it there, but that's my only reference point.

I sure hope your colorist's family end up okay. How distressing that the friggin' CELL PHONES aren't even working - isn't this kind of thing the POINT of cell phones?? Am clueless - don't have one, don't want one, would just lose the wee thing.

Ellen

[val]

Hi Ellen...

I don't work for the peacock. The peacock bought the film studio I work in... the deal was final just over a year ago.

Love,

Val

[ellenj]

Bruce,

I'm sorry if I've misjudged you or anyone else - it's tricky having deep conversations with people you don't know (for me anyway, then again I've never been accused of having stellar communication skills to begin with http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif).

What you're saying about 'deepening our collective soul' - do you think the people who most need their soul deepened are likely to get it? Some will, I'm sure, but overall?

Plus which, I'd love to think there's a better way...I'm not a big fan of punishing the whole class because one kid sassed the teacher.

Surely the Higher Power in Charge of the Universe, being of infinite nature, has the capacity to tailor the lesson to the person being taught? And I'm not so sure that it necessarily takes a collective event to deepen one's connection to the collective. Where there's a bad egg, or even just an unenlightened, otherwise benign egg, figure out what would get through to THAT person, and do it THAT way. Is it really necessary to take out several cities in the process?

Alrightie, then. I just read what I just wrote down...perhaps I'll blame the worst of that claptrap on the lateness of the hour and the fact that I'm simultaneously listening to Jay Leno chat with Tommy Lee...

[bruce]

Hi Ellen,

Well, I think if no-one was living in the path of the 'cane, it would have come in exactly the same path and ferocity. Nature has no intent, imo. I don't believe higher power directs nature this way or that. It is we who higher power connects with, changes or influences. Therefore it is we who has the option to respond to nature, one way or another. People tend to forget that this sort of thing has been going on for the last 4 billion years or so.

That said, while nature has no intent, it does balance itself over time. If we upset that balance, which of course we do, then nature will have her way with us to regain that balance, but not to punish us through her intent.

I don't know just how many of us are reachable, Ellen, or who's souls will be deepened from all this. I've been asking myself that question a lot these last few days. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[ellenj]

Bruce,

Yeah, I don't know what to think. I could easily go with what you're saying about nature - on the other hand, from what I've ever heard, most people who believe in a Higher Power believe that the Higher Power is omnipotent.

Which, of course, implies that it's in charge of the weather. Or, at the very least, that it COULD be in charge of the weather if it WANTED to be, if that makes any sense at all...

Ellen

[ellenj]

Another thing is - and this is just me - if my house was in smithereens and so forth I'm quite sure I wouldn't give a hoot about the depth of my immortal soul. I might eventually, but right now I'd just want stuff FIXED.

Having said that, I also don't think I'd be inclined towards this violence we're hearing about, mostly on the grounds that it would only wear me out and just isn't productive.

Having said that, if someone's driven over the edge, they just are. Almost all of us have some kind of breaking point somewhere, some quicker than others. I might not klonk anybody over the head, but I very well might turn into a useless zombie at some point. Neither of which is helpful.

Does anyone know why they didn't organize the public bus system to collect people without cars last weekend and get them the heck out of town with everybody else? Or did they, and it just wasn't very successful?

[jesed]

Dear Hellen

I hope i can explain myself well:

When you have a levee, and it is overfill; you must open it before it could be broken. Let the water flew "under your control" (opennig the levee) is better than water flew with no control (if the levee is broken). Because, in first case, you can control water's direction and intensity.

And the symbol of 40 is something like that even in political, emotional or spiritual issues: you have too much pressure inside.. you must let it flew under your control (an you'll have release, like an scape valvule) OR the emotional pressure will go outside wildy and broke everything around you.

Best wishes

[val]

I'm sure you've all heard the stories about Michael Brown, chief of FEMA bungling the aid and rescue efforts.

I heard this morning that the California emergency teams jumped into action and were ready to go on Monday. FEMA told them to sit tight and wait and see if they were needed... for THREE DAYS!

It appears there'll be an executive position open at FEMA shortly. Is anyone interested in the job?

Love,

Val

[val]

I'm proud to be a member of moveon.org - http://www.hurricanehousing.org/

And my parent company just issued this statement:

Dear Colleagues:

I want to update you on our relief efforts in the Gulf Coast -- but first I want to thank you.

You have shown what it means for a company to be great and good. In addition to your thoughts and prayers, thousands of you have reached into your wallets to give more than $1 million to the American Red Cross. I want you to know how proud this makes me and that your company stands with you.

In addition to the GE Foundation matching your contribution, dollar-for-dollar, we have just announced that the company will be donating:

<blockquote>An additional $5 million to the American Red Cross. Earlier this week, we donated $1 million to the Red Cross. With your $1 million and the GE Foundation match, this brings total cash donations from GE and its employees to the Red Cross to $8 million.

At least $10 million in medical devices, power generation equipment, water purification, temporary shelter and other goods and services as need is identified by federal relief authorities.</blockquote>I've corresponded with the president and the governors of Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi to let them know that GE will support them in the relief efforts. I've asked ______ _____ to coordinate our ongoing response across all of the GE business units involved.

We have hundreds of colleagues in the region, some of whom have suffered great losses. We are working with our human resources teams to determine needs and how we can address them.
Thank you again for your generosity.

[jesed]

x

[jesed]

Sorry... wrong messenge

I wanted to post: Great statement. Best wishes to America in this painful time

[ellenj]

Val,

Good for you for signing up to provide housing! And good for GE - thanks for posting that. (I'm such a disorganized piece of work, I'm ashamed to say, that house guests of any kind are out of the question http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/paperbag.gif ).

Apparently FEMA is a royal mess, which I didn't even know. Here's a couple links to articles that explain it. One is from a publication I've never heard of, and the other is from the Washington Post.

Disaster in the Making (Independent Weekly) (http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html)
Destroying FEMA (Washington Post) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901445_pf.html)

And here's an editorial by David Brooks of the New York Times that was mentioned more than once today by other news people. He talks about how natural disasters like this, especially when ineptitude or inequality is involved, expose the 'fault lines' in a society and often lead to political upheaval:

The Storm After the Storm (NYT editorial) (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/opinion/01brooks.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%2 0Op%2dEd)

He (David Brooks) was also on the MacNeil NewsHour tonight (PBS), and he was pissed. What makes that remarkable is that he's the conservative pundit on the show! Tonight you'd never guess that. And, there's apparently more than one Republican in Congress who is not happy with the Bush Administration's handling of this crisis.

The other thing I heard today that I think is notable, is that the reports of violence may have been significantly exaggerated. An NBC photojournalist was persuaded, by a man stranded at the N.O. Convention Center who took it upon himself to take charge of something at that location, to get a story on the air about their dire need for assistance. The NBC guy said conditions at the convention center were absolutely dreadful and NO ONE of an official nature was there, supposedly because nobody wanted to walk into a riot. However, the NBC guy's point was that there WAS no riot. People were dying there, not from violence, but from lack of medicine. He was really pissed, too - said, Hey, if the news media can get there and file stories what the heck is stopping the rescue personnel??

[hester]

yea, how compassionate. and im so so glad haliburton got the contract to clean up new orleans up, uh,yeah, once they get the dead and sick out of there. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685 love that.

[ellenj]

Oh my god. The BBC World News is on, and what they're broadcasting to the planet is how all these people over here have no water, and how the police over there, down the street, are stalking one looter in a grocery store with guns drawn.

SHEESH.

I mean, if they'd quit worrying so much about the looters, and just deliver the assistance and get people out of the city already - there wouldn't be a looting problem to worry about!

[jte]

"Which, of course, implies that it's in charge of the weather. Or, at the very least, that it COULD be in charge of the weather if it WANTED to be, if that makes any sense at all... "

Yes, that makes sense to me...

"Another thing is - and this is just me - if my house was in smithereens and so forth I'm quite sure I wouldn't give a hoot about the depth of my immortal soul. I might eventually, but right now I'd just want stuff FIXED."

I look at it this way, a lot of the "higher" stuff (like spirituality, connection to a higher power, etc.) has to be built on a solid foundation of "lower" stuff (like food, shelter, rest, safety, etc). If that foundation is in need of repair one pretty much has to attend to it first. Some people don't or won't but I personally think that's unwise.

"I mean, if they'd quit worrying so much about the looters, and just deliver the assistance and get people out of the city already - there wouldn't be a looting problem to worry about!"

I agree with you mostly but not completely, definitely attending to the human need first would have improved the situation *greatly* and prevented *a lot* of the behavioral problems. On the other hand, I suspect there was *a small percent* of "really nasty" people among the refugees who would have started trouble even if the rescue busses and food had started showing up the next morning. I've seen enough Americans to know that there are some real bad apples sprinkled in with the vast majority of decent people.

One thing that disgusted me and my sweetie was seeing Bush on TV saying there should be "zero tolerance" for looting after a disaster. I mean, duh! What exactly are people without food, water, medicine, electicity, and transportation supposed to do?!? It just shows how totally out of touch he is with what these people were going through.

It was really disgusting - I mean, plunk Bush in the middle of New Orleans and see how long *he* survives in all that. Oh yeah, and he can't "loot" any food or water, either! Yeah, right...

Anyhow, enough said.

- Jeff

[hilary]

Much less depressing:
http://www.interaction.org/katrina

[ellenj]

Jeff,

Thank you!

The more I see &amp; hear on TV and read in news reports the more disturbing and ridiculous this all gets.

Like, for what good reason have the news media been the first people on the scene there?? Campbell Brown on the NBC 'Today' show just said that the line we hear that 'the city is impassable; we can't get in' is just not true - you just have to be creative, persistent, and find the circuitous routes.

David Brooks this morning (God love him for having the integrity to dump the conservative party line in favor of good sense) said the federal government's problem isn't lack of money so much as how they're spending it. Apparently domestic spending at the gross level is right up there with historical precedent, but it's going into stuff like that oft-mentioned boondoggle of a bridge in Alaska that'll serve an island of, like, 50 people or something. This is your Highway Bill, America.

The consensus seems to be, with much less argument than you'd expect (as far as I've heard), that the government has been abdicating its basic functions - systematically and on purpose - and we're getting a real good look at the results.

"a lot of the "higher" stuff (like spirituality, connection to a higher power, etc.) has to be built on a solid foundation of "lower" stuff (like food, shelter, rest, safety, etc)."

Yes. As I might ever-so-tactlessly put it, New Age 'political correctness' runs amok quite a lot and I ran out of patience with it a long time ago. A happy medium surely exists. Let's find it and stay there.

If I'm not mistaken, I even think the I Ching agrees - I don't know the hexagram(s), but I remember a reading I got once, where I was asking about spending some money in some more-or-less altruistic way, and Yi basically said, Be ye not delusional - right now you need your money for your own life.

"I've seen enough Americans to know that there are some real bad apples sprinkled in with the vast majority of decent people."

Absolutely. And people's tempers will be right at the boiling point. And, sad to say, there's going to be drug addicts without a fix, mental patients without medication, and so forth.

There's maybe 3 tiers here:

(1) Violence like rape, mugging, murder etc. THAT'S unconscionable. THAT'S a good place for the zero tolerance and the police.

(2) Looting of stuff like TIVOs and diamond necklaces. Not cool, people! But hardly the end of the friggin' world, either.

This is the kind of thing wouldn't happen if there'd been a comprehensive evacuation plan in the first place, or if people had been gotten out more quickly after the fact.

And I think it'd probably have a self-limited lifespan, anyway. For one thing, stuff to loot and places to loot it from did not magically escape the destruction. Beyond that, sure, people might feel like kids in a candy store - for about half a millisecond. Then they'll realize they have more important things to worry about, like eating. Also they have no place to put stuff, so whatever they take has to be carried around in their two hands. Etc.

And if people who were poor to start with and have lost what they did have come out of this with jewelry or such that doesn't belong to them - I'm hardly condoning it but I'm also not very worked up. The 'cost of theft' is probably an infinitesimal part of the total in a disaster like this.

(3) Looting of food, water, clothes, suitcases, batteries, radios, prescription medicines etc. etc. - this is not even theft, it's a no-brainer. People would be idiots NOT to do it where they can.

[ellenj]

Hilary,

Thanks for the link. Looks like pretty much all the information one could want, in one place.

And yeah...we could depress ourselves and get our knickers in a twist here endlessly, for no particular good purpose.

At the very least, since discussion of the reading has probably run its course, further debate (ranting http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/shame.gif) should probably be moved to the 'Open Space' area.

I'm not going to do it, though - I'd be much better off to STOP ranting. (As usual. Not one of my prettier sides...sorry...)

Ellen

[val]

Well I'm sure you've all heard by now that Michael Brown, head of FEMA, has been sent back to Washington, and Chertoff is appointing a new leader in the Katrina-ravaged area (http://www.cnn.com/) Something about his resume being spotty *rolls eyes* Needless to say I'm extremely happy. But it appears Robert Wexler of Florida asked for his resignation in January of this year for fraudulent dispersal of FEMA funds to non-victims of Hurricane Frances.

http://wexler.house.gov/news.php?ID=26

Wexler must be happy as well.

And another happy note: It seems our emails to the White House (well *I* sent one anyway) asking Bush to return to the storm ravaged area the 7,000 National Guardsmen from Louisiana and Mississippi that were sent to Iraq have been heard and are being answered...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/09/katrina.iraq.ap/index.html

100 down... 6,900 to go.

I'll be back later with some thoughts on the Yi.

Love,

Val

[hilary]

A small opinion article on Katrina (http://www2.townonline.com/harvard/opinion/view.bg?articleid=321499), starting out from the idea of change, and making it sound a lot like Hexagram 59.

[peace]

Hilary:
How does this relate to I Ching. It mentions it in the first sentence and that's it.

Thanks,
Rosalie

[hilary]

Um, not so much directly (but nor does a lot of this thread, so I thought I might as well post the link as not). It reminds me of what I've read about the definition of Yi, Change: not only the predictable, cyclic kind, but also the unpredictable wrench, the kind of change we are afraid of and do not want.

It also reminded me a lot of 59, Dispersing, which is itself associated with flooding, with solid boundaries (literal and metaphorical) being overwhelmed.

[bruce]

The fault of the dismal response to this emergency is spread across the board, from local government to federal. But it seems one just points the finger at the other, neither fessing up to their failure to secure a hurricane prone coastal city living below sea level. One would think such a city?s law enforcement/search and rescue teams would at least own a few flat bottomed rescue boats, or provide sufficient highways and bridges to allow its citizens an adequate escape route. Local mass transit evacuation plans wouldn?t have hurt, either. Shame that this has become just another political opportunity, all around.

[peace]

Wanted to let you all know that my kids are fine. They went through hell, but are better off than most people. They don't know about their house but it seems that the neighborhood was probably mostly dry. They are now in Florida trying to figure things out. They have lots of options and are recovering well. I flew down there last weekend to meet them as they got off the plane. What a reunion!

As far as the politics - the kids have alot to say and they know alot first hand - from their own connections as well as in the direct discussions they participated in with the CEO of the hospital who was getting messages continuously from the National Guard as things were unfolding last week.

In a word - no one had a clue what to do, no one was prepared and it was even more disorganized than we hear on TV - and the race card is bull...they weren't organized enough to favor anyone if they wanted to!

Rosalie

[bruce]

Great news, Rosalie!

[jte]

Yes, glad to hear that they're doing okay.

- Jeff

[peace]

Thank you.
At this point they have lots of options - and of course their life is/was in New Orleans and they're not able to move forward and not look back!

Rosalie

[davidl]

Hi all,

Just passing and was wondering if there was any discussion re: 'katrina'. And here it is. I liked the answer the yi gave to your question, Ellenj. Couldn't be clearer as far as Im concerned. I would also like to add another angle on this. Years ago I read a fascinating book by Immanual Velikovsky, called 'Mankind in Amnesia', I won't go into too much detail, but my understanding is that through some kind of collective amnesia, we chose to forget, over time, past catastrophes, and rebuild lives and cities in places that are certainly going to be dangerous to a whole new set of people and assets in the future. In other words, New Orleans will be rebuilt, katrina will be purposely forgotten and in the future the whole thing will happen again. We are definitely a civilization in denial, or can we 'deliver' ourselves from this condition, and look for a safer and smarter place to rebuild.

[i2k7]

Hello everyone

I've just been reading this thread, and was interested in the Yi's response.

We now have the benefit of considerable hindsight.... I wondered what people made of the Yi's answer, from the perspective we have now. Would anyone care to share their view? I don't have one, I'm still mulling it over!