Ewald's translation

[jesed]

Hi Ewald

I'm glad to see your translation on the web: I was waiting for it.

Best wishes

[ewald]

Thanks, Jesed.

For the time being my translation will only be available in the Yijing consultation pages (http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/) on my site. I'm working on making it available also as a book or eBook.

[bruce_g]

Hi, Ewald. I like your minimalist and exacting approach.

Thanks!

[beithe]

What a wonderful site! I feel like I just received a present :D

Bare bones are sometimes better than too much meat.

[crystal_blue]

Out of interest, how does one reconcile the Enneagram's assertion that reality is based on nine (or at least, three) with the I-Ching's assertion that reality is based on eight (or at least, two)?

[jesed]

Hi

Just in case the comment could be useful

In traditional studies of Yijing, there are diferent numerical laws, not only the one based on 2

In traditional studies of Eneagram, there are diferent numerical laws, not only the one based on 9

The eneagram's mataphora of the circle is similar to the 1 of Yi; the eneagram's metaphora of the inner triangle is similar to the 3 of Yi and so on.

That's why a Yijing's study based ONLY in binary mathematics is biased.

Best wishes

[crystal_blue]

The eneagram's mataphora of the circle is similar to the 1 of Yi; the eneagram's metaphora of the inner triangle is similar to the 3 of Yi and so on.

The circle and the triangle are self-evident; the '1' and the '3' are not (I assume the '1' is Tao, though).

[jesed]

1-ness like the circle
3-ness like the triangle
9-ness like the eneagram
Life is neither only "1ness", nor only "3ness"... and "holistic" (9-ness) is more than the adition of the parts :)

Best wishes

[crystal_blue]

1-ness like the circle
3-ness like the triangle
9-ness like the eneagram
Life is neither only "1ness", nor only "3ness"... and "holistic" (9-ness) is more than the adition of the parts :)

That's not really addressing the issue i.e. how this 3-ness is expressed in the I-Ching.

[ewald]

Our computers work exclusively with 2-ness, as they use the binary system. Yet they are able to express the enneagram, as we can visit websites about it.

Similarly, the Yijing can express the situations that all enneagram types can encounter.

[crystal_blue]

Our computers work exclusively with 2-ness, as they use the binary system. Yet they are able to express the enneagram, as we can visit websites about it.

Websites about the Enneagram aren't the Enneagram, though, at least no more than websites about the I-Ching are the I-Ching.

Similarly, the Yijing can express the situations that all enneagram types can encounter.

So the Enneagram represents people, whereas the I-Ching represents situations?

[ewald]

What exactly are you trying to say? That the enneagram and the Yijing are incompatible, so one of them must be wrong, or something? They don't describe the same thing, do they.

I know both systems fairly well, and I've never seen any reason to "reconcile" the two. They don't bite each other.

[crystal_blue]

They don't describe the same thing, do they.

Dunno (I presume that's an affirmative to my last question). Thanks for answering my questions, though.
- :)

[jesed]

Hi
Well, that expression of mine was adressing MY issue: that is some kind of mislead to think that Yijing's assertion is: reality is based on 8 or at least 2

Now, about how 3-ness is expressed in Yijing; you can see
a) the trigram
b) the cosmological metaphora of Heaven, Earth and Mankind
c) by extension, the interaction of Time, Space and Will
d) The 3 times of Change: transformation, mutation and non-change
and so on

(remember: Yijing is Zhouyi plus Ten Wings. You could see the above in the Wings)

Best wishes

[jesed]

By the way

The eneagram as "personality typing system " is a modernization of traditional eneagram. In traditional studies eneagram is both a description of cosmos and a process of transformation (see Gurdjieff)

[ewald]

Actually, the originator of the enneagram as a personality typing system, Oscar Ichazo, claims that it originates with him. He even had a lawsuit about copyrights against Helen Palmer over it. I've seen some earlier Sufi version, though.

Gurdjieff applied it as a process model, one similar to the Chinese 5 Phases (or 5 Elements).

[jesed]

Indeed... Ichazo make the symbol of eneagram a personality typing system. But before that, the symbol existed already. Ichazo recognizes that fact.

One important issue in Gurdjieff is the holistic aproach.

I mean: he take in count the Unity (expresed in the circle), the duality (expressed in the line), the 3-ness (expressed in the triangle), the 5-ness (expresed in the inner pentacle), the 7-ness (expresed in the inner interconections) and the Whole-ness (expresed in the entire symbol)

Each one of this "-ness" (and not just one or two, like the 9 or the 3) is part of reality; just like "1 is Heaven, 2 is Earth, 3 is Heaven, 4 is Earth, 5 is Heaven, 6 is Earth, 7 is Heaven, 8 is Earth, 9 is Heaven, 10 is Earth".

Reality cann't be reduced to the Unity; can't be reduced to dycothomy, can't be reduced to the 10,000 things. Nor in Yijing, neither in Eneagram

Even when you take the Eneagram as personality type system, one person can't be reduced to type 1, or 2, or 9.

In modern science, this is covered by the theory of complexity

Best wishes

[frank_r]

Some years ago I studied the Enneagram and Yi extensively. And found that if you look to the Tai qi figure with his numbers and if you take the ennegram sequence 1-4-2-8-5-7-1 you get a figure thats looking as form somewhat like the figure of the Lo shu.

And 3-9-6 are also in a line. For me this was a striking resemblance which was a sign that the Yi and the Ennegrams have a sort of compatibility.

Also something interesting about the Ennegrams was writen by the woman Laleh Bakhtiar, She wote two very interesting books about the enneagrams; Gods will Be Done volume 1 and 2.
She writes about the three parts head, heart and gut. By doing this she describes 64 possible Moral Balances/imbalances.
So I looked for the compatibilty between the Yi and the ennegrams I already wrote about this in another thread. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=315
I found interesting and striking examples with this key to combine the Yi and ennegrams. The way I combined those two I wrote also in the thread I already mentioned above.

[jesed]

Hi frank
it is always a learning experience to read your interconections between systems.

This one is really interesting for me

Thanks

[frank_r]

Some years ago I studied the Enneagram and Yi extensively. And found that if you look to the Tai qi figure with his numbers and if you take the ennegram sequence 1-4-2-8-5-7-1 you get a figure thats looking as form somewhat like the figure of the Lo shu.

And 3-9-6 are also in a line. For me this was a striking resemblance which was a sign that the Yi and the Ennegrams have a sort of compatibility.

Also something interesting about the Ennegrams was writen by the woman Laleh Bakhtiar, She wote two very interesting books about the enneagrams; Gods will Be Done volume 1 and 2.
She writes about the three parts head, heart and gut. By doing this she describes 64 possible Moral Balances/imbalances.
So I looked for the compatibilty between the Yi and the ennegrams I already wrote about this in another thread. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=315
I found interesting and striking examples with this key to combine the Yi and ennegrams. The way I combined those two I wrote also in the thread I already mentioned above.