Who is "the Devil" in this cast?

[ole]

During the last days I have been in a conflict with a friend of mine, who I think have "left the path" and have adopted some absurd, unrealistic believes about the world.
A letter from her showed me that our discussion had just made her take an even more extreme viewpoint. Trying to figure out how to respond, I asked I ching how I should procede.
The answer was 63,3. From Wilhelm I get:

"The Illustrious Ancestor
Disciplines the Devil's Country.
After three years he conquers it.
Inferior people must not be employed."

I ching seems to agree that I should continue with great effort to discipline her "devil" like ideas....

I am inspired by Steven Karcher who would say that this line coresponds with 64,4 (if you turn 63,3 upside down, you get 64,4 - there is an explanation from Karcher of this princip to be found somewhere in the forum).
And 64,4 says ( in Balkin):

"..... Like thunder he attacks the Demon Territory.
In three years, great realms ar awarded."
And Wilhelm says about this line: " ...Now it is the time of struggle. The transition must be completed. We must make ourselves strong in resolution; this brings good fortune. All misgivings that might arise in such grave times of struggle must be silenced."

Shock! It seems to suggest that I should really go into a struggle and continue to attack her viewpoints !
This would be following my angry emotions, but I didnt feel deep in my heart that this would bring anything good, but bring hurt and destroy our relationship.

So I wanted to look deeper in it: If I look at Karcher?s "hidden path" crosslines, which some of you might now of,
These are: 3,3 : 4,4.

3,3 says:
"Whoever hunts deer without the forester
Only loses his way in the forest.
The superior man understands the signs of the time
And prefers to desist.
To go on brings humiliation."

4,4 says:
"Entangled folly brings humiliation."
The "folly" could be me, but even it is about her,
Balkin says about this line: "....when people are so consumed by fantasy or obsession, that they will not listen to reason, its is sometimes best to leave them to fend for themselves."

So the hidden crosslines suggests another approach - to stop the "hunt".

Hm..... This sounded much more in accordance with my heart tells me, although it is in great contradiction with the basic hexagram.
Could it be that the "Devils country" is inside myself...?

I therefore asked I ching 2 questions:

1. Should I keep on "attacking" her?
54:Marrying maiden (no changing line)

2. Should I rather fight the "devil" inside my self? 36,1,6. Hiding brightness

Seems like a clear confirmation that I should stop the fight.

I did some inner work to find the "devil" inside myself, and it gave some great insights into my own intentions and my anger seems like tranformed (for the moment at least).
So that interpretation worked for me, and if I am wright about this, is shows how important it is not (only) to rely on the commentaries of the lines.

[bruce]

Hi Ole,

Your thought process of turning inward to find the answer is something I can admire. It really does come down to where the real demons live.

If you haven't already, check LiSe's site on 63. I think you'll find it useful.

63 (http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/hex_49-64/hex_e_63.htm)

[peace]

Hi Bruce:

What is LiSe's sight? Does it have all the hexagrams?

Thanks,
Rosalie

[bruce]

Hi Rosalie,

here ya go (http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/yi_index.html)

[hilary]

Ole, thanks for sharing that. A great story of how divination really works.

BTW, I've very often seen the 'demon country' refer to inner demons. Unknown elements, at the edges, that threaten peace and stability.

[auriel]

inner demons when they strike correspondence with others' inner demons can contaminate the world.

prepare yourself, certainly but find counsel and do the work; don't "attack" but observe wherein she is lame or blind and -54.5- prepare the proper response to your sister.[hilary, this is the sense of 54 in 'the way of marriage as an image of the soul's journey to realization.' ]
take heed too, of the sense of 36.6 to battle the demon of lethargy.
36.1.6-52 :a time will come for right action-

[frank]

Hi Ole,

Great reading. Good for you that you look at both sides of the medle as the 'devil' could mean something towards her, but perhaps even to you. I find it difficult to exactly 'choose' which is the correct interpetation.

In the meanwhile followers or readers or people who are interested in the world of the Yi are probably a bit aware that chinese words can have double meanings, as most of the time the line of 63.3 would be associated with the devils country a certain Emperor concered after 3 years of war.

But "Guizang" is not literly meaning "Devils Country", but "Ghost Country", and here the words of Hillary comes in :-D.

A "Gui" in chinese folklore is a 'hungry ghost' or 'hungry spirit' who's not fully aware that he is dead and must leave the earth... As a methaphor Gui could be 'hungry ideas', that must be released, let go off... So I think the Yi is talking about her and her 'hungry thoughts'...

I think it's a matter of (a long) time before she sees what she is doing. What you did is a great thing to do, because then for that long time it at least should not influence you, as you have probably nothing to do with it. Do not let it become your devil...

Besides what Karcher sais you can also look to the changing hexagram, as 63 changes into 3, by changing line 3... The literal meaning of the character for Hexagram 3 is that of a 'Militairy Quarters", perhaps even "the Catering, the Kitchen" so to speak.... Food for soldiers on the battlefield... By concering the 'ghost country' she could be in a shelterd enviroment, where enemies are aproaching (different thoughts and different people and situations), but she at least can catch 'real food'... This last paragraph is purely my inspired intuition :-D.

The Outer Opperator, as Karcher calls them is 15 Modesty... Do not go all the way with this...

I hope I made some sense what so ever :-D.

Hug.
Frank

[peace]

Hi Ole:

I don't respond to too many discussions because I'm learning so much but I want to participate more since people are helping me so much - so here's my take....

You're probably right about her and your looking at your own demons is most important for you - what's you, what's her, what's merely projection.

I like Carol Anthony's phrase about "not throwing yourself away". By getting too involved with her demons and her confused arguments, your ego has a chance of taking over and being the "white knight", somewhere you probably don't want to go.

Anthony talks about letting people go and giving them the space to err and find their own way. She talks about being receptive and available when people are able to be influenced and withdrawing when their ego/wrong thoughts try to manipulate you.

The way you live and the way you treat your friend (with respect, but not playing into her bull) will be the greatest influence you can make.

Please keep us informed.
Rosalie

[bruce]

Frank, nice! Hungry ghosts need to make their influence known and felt. They crave recognition. That does open up at least two possibilities.

[ole]

Rosalie, You wrote: "Please keep us informed".

What happened that the person in question have withdrawn from me....
She felt that I was challenging her belief system to much, and now needs peace. Not that we are enimies.
It does not nesserary tell something about which interpretation was right, - but I think that my own intuitive interpretion was right.
So that was what came out of "attacking the demons country ;)

[bruce]

Ole, attacking someone else?s viewpoint is indeed like attacking a ghost. Is it your friend?s job to convert your ideas? Then is it your job to convert theirs? I suggest that the demons are our own discords aroused through the need to be right, forgoing the rightness itself. That?s why ?inferior people should not be employed?.

[frederick]

I agree, Bruce.
The Yi rarely approves of or encourages an angry anything.
If an enraged person wants to hunt demons, all that is required is a mirror.

[ole]

I think you are both right.

And actually I didnt do any further attacks after the 63,3 cast in my original post (I think my last post could have given that impression).

The earlier "attacks" that I actually made before that, seemed partly in accordance with Yi, as I at that time got 18,3,4,6.
But I was focusing all to much on the 4.line, which says not to deal leniently with things that has to be remedied. And I overlooked the 6.line, which tells to withdraw from the situation (I guess that what it said was: its ok to make a strong approach to "remedy the ills", but then retreat afterwards.
And certainly I overlooked the secondary hex. which was 40 (deliverance).