61 - "Inner Truth"?

[ewald]

While working on my translation of the Zhouyi, I found that Wilhelm is quite consistent with translating fu2 with "sincerity." Fu2 can also mean
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

To trust, have confidence in; to respect. To arouse respect; to inspire confidence<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
according to Muller's dictionary (http://www.acmuller.net/dealt/) (and others, but I trust this one most).

The translation of the name of hexagram 61 as "Inner Truth," is in my opinion very close to "sincerity" or "inner sincerity." However, the hexagram seems more about trust than about sincerity.

1. preparation, to trust things to be going well
2. trustfull connection
3. depending on a mate who one trusts
4. distrust
5. being joined in trust
6. empty words, not to be trusted

The hexagram text (judgment) seems about being trusted by piglets and fishes. I don't quite see how "inner truth" has so much to do with one's relationship with these creatures.

However, when translating fu2 with "trust" in the hexagram name, what is the meaning of zhong1? It can mean "inner," but also "center," "middle," "among," "within," "between." I don't quite believe that it means "inner" here.
I'm pondering "among trusted" or "within trust" for these two characters.

Is there any reason to translate it anyway with "Inner Truth?"

[val]

Ewald...

Trust and inner truth and sincerity are inseparable. You can't have one without the others. One has to trust oneself to be sincere to show oneself the truth within... otherwise one keeps it hidden.


Love,

Val

[bradford_h]

Hi Ewald-
I try to translate with words that imply some of the breadth of meanings of the Chinese original, i.e. use one that carries the fullest load of implications - trust, truth, belief, conviction, and of course the Yi's own gloss, Xin4.
From my own glossary:

fu2 &sect;&middot;1936 1233a 39+4 05.0 (a, the) truth, the true, confidence, trust, assurance, belief, conviction, sureness, sincerity, reliance, (good) faith, surety, certainty, credibility, proof, verity, promise, conviction, loyalty, verification (s); (to be) true, sincere, credible, honest, trustworthy, truthful, confident, assured, reliable, sure (to); (to) rely on, believe in, be sure (of), verify, ascertain, validate, believe, have faith, trust, hold (that) (s, ed, ing); will surely, certainly, truly (be); can be trusted to, is certain to, is sure to

I felt pretty good about leaving out "captives" and "ants".
I also tend to see the Hanzi, the bird claw over the child, as a protective gesture, a parent bird drawing a line for the predator - this is what I hold true for, this child is something I will fight and die for.

[jte]

A suggestion, Ewald - check out a Legge translation if you haven't already. His title for 61 is "Inmost Sincerity." I've always felt his title is much more evocative than "Inner Truth." Legge has some interesting notes on the meaning of the concept of the hex as well.

- Jeff

[ewald]

Val,
No disagreement about that. I feel there's beauty in that all these meanings are in a single Chinese character.

[ewald]

Brad,
That's a great list of meanings.

At this moment the word "trust" for me carries the broadest amount of meaning, implying confidence, sincerity, truth etc. Sincerity, for example, doesn't imply confidence to me (and vice versa).

[ewald]

Jeff,
Thanks, I missed that in the Legge. I've made an electronic version of it, and I seem to have forgotten to add the notes pertaining to the hexagram.
Indeed "Inmost Sincerity" does sound better than Wilhelm's hexagram name.

Legge refers in these notes to the "Doctrine of the Mean." I looked it up (http://zhongwen.com/zhong.htm), and found that in that 21th chapter that he is refering to, it's not the character Fu2 that's used for "sincerity," but Cheng2. Also, this text is younger than the I Ching, as far as I know.
So, I'm not sure what to think of that.

[jte]

Fair enough: I've never gone so deep into analyzing translations, so I don't know what to make of it either =) . Was just trying to be helpful, hope it was to some extent. :-)

- Jeff

[ewald]

It was, Jeff, you got me thinking about this in a different way :-)

[dobro]

I call it Center Capturing, cuz of the other parts in the Yi where 'capturing' seems to work better in conjunction with the noun that follows it. When it occurs on its own, I translate it as 'capturing truth' - which is what sincerity is - sincerity is a capturing of your own truth.

I think 'sincerity' works less well when it's followed by a noun or gerund.