Dream help

[millie]

hello. i had a very powerful dream last night about me and a man i'm interested in. i asked the yi this morning what the dream was telling me about us and what i should do? my answer was 34 with lines 3 and 4 changing into 19.

i know 19 is a good answer for relationships. but 34 can be about too much power and too much emotions. i know i am feeling strongly. i believe he is as well, but i try to err on the side of believing the yi is talking to me directly and not about someone else. maybe i'm being told to approach him, but with the line readings encouraged to do so in the right way? or, maybe this reading is simply telling me to absolutely accept things as they are, which in this case, means that things are stagnant between us (outwardly stagnant, but not inwardly.) but the dream was all about how we "could' be together if only we both made the decision. we had to both decide. right now neither of us are deciding, but we are both feeling. the dream was about our powerful connection that everyone else could see. also, he has children that he cares for very much. and maybe 19 is just reminding me about all that, and telling me to accept that he oversees others? or, do i assume that 19 is about us, or that it is about me? interpretation is difficult!!!!! in my waking life, i'm seeking the courage to contact him. i want to contact him, but i keep hesitating.

[dobro]

"but 34 can be about too much power and too much emotions."

I'd say 34 is about power coming on strong. (33, by contrast, is about pulling out or withdrawing.) I've never thought of it as referring to strong emotion particularly, cuz being moved by strong emotion is more the work of Hex 31. But it might in this case. I don't think it's about excessive power. (The warnings about the use of the power in the individual lines have to do with either being too direct with it or too impulsive and aggressive.)

I forget what 34.3 is about, but 34.4 is about breaking through resistance or obstacles in a good way, so that you can get on with moving things forward in a major way.

So overall, it looks good for the beginning of a relationship. It's saying something like: "You, or the relationship, is coming on strong in a way in which approach is included. Nice.

[void]

Hi Millie I'm not sure about this but no one else seems to be around, so I can only offer that for me 34,3 crops up when I am applying way too much force in a situation, using a sledgehammer to crack a nut so to speak. So 34,3 is just asking you to consider how much brute force your're directing at something, and suggesting its actually probably not the best way. 34,4 on the other hand is indicating the path clearing, you're on the right track, applying the right amount of forcefulness and strength to the situation to get it moving. And 19 ? Gearing up to coming together ?

The dream indicated all you and him needed to do was make a decision and you could be together. I think your answer from the Yi supports this wisdom from your dreaming mind. To be decisive requires a certain amount of oomph, a degree of force if you like, power to move it along and make it happen. Your dream suggested 'hey you two, come on, make up your mind, lets get going - a decision is needed'. I think the Yi supports that, but asks you to relax a little in the way you approach him with this decision. Charge full steam ahead and there may be problems, relax a little, and you will find obstacles melt away and indeed you will be together.

I've read somewhere here 19 is about doing, preparing, being proactive - I think this may be in regard to you contacting him - mindful of not using too much force.

My feeling is that it could well be a good idea to contact him, but perhaps to make the contact low key, easy, maybe even casual ? Does that make any sense ? Basically I think the message is move on with this, hesitate no longer, but just play it a bit cool, lol...er but not too cool obviously... Good Luck !!

[void]

OOps crossed posts with Dobro...I agree with him but I have known times when 34, 3 has meant for me I'm really going overboard with forceful expression, so I think that line can sometimes mean expressing more feeling than is needed in a situation and causing self some difficulties.

Thinking of it though, it could just mean your're gearing yourself up for a difficult scenario where you need not at all. It won't be a herculean task, the way will open, well I hope so anyway. Overall it is a positive reading I think.

[millie]

thanks dobro. i know 34.4 is a good line to receive. but 34.3 seems more like a warning of what not to do. it's soooo hard when i get two opposing lines like this. what would you say is "coming on strong?" is the advice to approach in a strong way? or is it warning to avoid approaching in a strong way?

[millie]

thanks void. i missed your posts before writing back to dobro. you might be on to something: i'm hesitating mostly because i fear a difficulty that may not be there. i don't really have a reason to hold this fear. except, that i tried to contact him a while ago and he never responded. this could be due to many things. i tend to be conservative where love is concerned, and i don't want to be pushy in any way, so a no response to me means STOP and WALK AWAY. but he hasn't said he wants to stop, and it's not the way we left things the last time we spoke, but it does seem to be what's organically happened. the dream suggested it didn't need to be this way. at least, that's what my subconcious is telling me. i don't realy know what is going on with him. it could be anything.

19 i know is about accepting things, or at least a person, the way they are. but it's also about approaching a situation. it's still a confusing one for me. is it best to err on the side that yi is commenting to me directly? or am i being told and reminded that he has other mouths to feed (his children) and is therefore not available? (these are my fears.) i don't want to paint a rosey picture of my dream or yi's response. i want to be real and honest.

[peace]

Hi Millie:

It's not clear to me -
You say he didn't respond when you contacted him.
What has happened since then?

I'd ask Yi about how YOU feel about his having children and possibly having to share his affections. You did say it is a fear - his not being available.

It sounds like you need to get more clarity about what you want and I'd focus some questions on that before I'd think about moving forward.
That way, you won't put your own confusion into the mix.

I think 34.3 could be about "butting heads" with yourself - in terms of what you really want.

19 is about teaching and leadership. You may want to look at it as it relates to you and what you want. What do you need to learn? How might you be a better "leader" of your own emotions and power to get what you want?

If you're not into kids, especially someone else's it will put you in conflict. Their needs do have to come first.

Why do you think he didn't contact you?

Good luck!
Rosalie

[millie]

rosalie, thanks for your offer of help, but you are way off. i know execatly what i want with him. and i love kids, including his. i have no concerns about his capacity for affection. i am trying to understand the fullness of 19, and see how it may relate to my question and situation. in this case, he does have mouths to feed and i am, at this point in our relationship, the lower approaching the higher, so to speak.

of course 34.3 is about me - all yi answers to my questions are about me. i would never, as you suggest, ask yi to tel me how i feel about anything! it's up to me to know that. i might ask for more insight into a situation, or ask about the best approach to take in a situation, answers which i will ponder alongside my understanding of myself, but that's about all.

there are many possibilities why he hasn't contacted me, but at this point only he knows for sure why. to answer your question, nothing has happened since then. my hesitation to contact him again, despite really wanting to contact him, is out of respect to him. if he doesn't want to be in touch right now, i don't want to push that. of course, i get to say what i want and need, and it's doing that very thing that my dream was about.

i also must disagree with you that children's needs have to come first. i believe a parent must first attend to their primary intimate relationship, then to the kids. not doing so i believe is a cause of marriage problems. but this doesn't relate to us at this point, because i am not his primary intimate relationship. do not read layers into this. i am accepting of our current level of relationship.

when interpreting yi and her answers, i think it's important to keep to the spirit of yi's metaphors without adding in too much potentially irrelevant therapizing of a situation. e.g. you somehow, without asking me, decided that i was troubled about what i want and how i feel about children and how his having children may be a point of conflict, and then you applied the yi to those assumptions/projections about me. that's therapizing, and not yi interpretation.

[yellowknife]

Hi Millie,

If you just take the lines sequentially then 34.3 sounds like where you're at now- wanting to contact him but hesitating, (which the dream was about)
34,4 sounds like where you're getting to; i.e removal of obstacles.
So although the lines appear to conflict, read as a progression, they don't.

I've always found that 19 acts as an instruction for me...approach, the door is open...

Good luck.

[millie]

thanks wolverine. that's a good way to look at this. the lines are a progression.

i guess i'm gun-shy because before i contacted him last time, i received 19 as the answer for three different questions. but then nothing happened. it seemed the door wasn't open afterall. and i'm a big believer in accepting what is and not pushing. so, to contact him once more - is this pushing? is it barking up a tree without possibiity of result? or maybe, i hesitate because if he doesn't respond this time, i'll have to actually let go and move on.

someone on this board once wrote to see the lines as spotlights, highlighting aspects of a situation. there is paradox in life and so from that lens it's no surprise there is conflict in the lines.

in my dream it was clear. we are not together now, but we both just have to decide and then this other time will be created and we will be together. well yes, of course that's all it takes.

[millie]

martin, i read an old post where you wrote about 19 telling us to make a decision in the face of many options. can you talk more about this? i haven't read this anywhere, but i do think it applies to my situation and so i am interested. thanks.

[void]

I never thought 19 was much about accepting things the way they are, its much more active than that. I agree with others who have said quite simply that 19 here means the door is open, go ahead.

[peace]

Hi Millie:

I wasn't making any assumptions about you or your situation - just throwing out possible things that you might want to question if you hadn't - to get a full perspective of the situation.
I certainly wasn't "therapizing about you" since I don't know you and you hadn't given much information. I'm sorry you took offense - just trying to be helpful - sorry if I wasn't.

I know it helps me when others ask me questions I never thought of and that helps me to think through the situation in a more comprehensive way.

As far as kids coming first - I don't agree with you. Yes, you need food and rest - but when there are kids, it's about their needs, not ours. Of course it depends and their age and level of ability to be responsible about age appropriate things. When there are marital problems, usually the kids are used as pawns. For example, a mother may use the kids as a buffer and excuse to stay away from her husband or he may use the excuse that his wife is too involved with the kids and have an affair because his wife doesn't understand him and neglects. That's a different story!

Good luck -
Rosalie

[millie]

on lise site, she writes this:

'Hexagram 19
In old texts 'lin' is often used for descending towards a valley. It is nearing, but it is also overseeing. From high above one sees the whole valley. In regard to ?nearing? people it means to see them in their totality, with all the things they do and have, need or reject, like or fear. Seeing the whole picture, not just the details. And most important of all: without judgment. It is the condition for helping or organizing. For the person who is seen this way, it feels safe.'

this is where i'm getting the idea of accepting. she describes "moving near to someone" as not just the outward, physical movement (the door is open to proceed) but also as the act of taking in all the information about a person or situation, and therefore moving more near to them in an intimate and understanding way. in the image, it happens there are three mouths, and this man has three chldren, and so part of what i know i need to fully understand about him is his role as dad.

rosalie, thatnks for explaining that you only intended to ask questions that would help me think through the situation.

[yellowknife]

Powerful stuff.

Loving the synchronicity of that as I've received 19 three times today. I've also been thinking about how very much I want to see people without judgment and make them feel seen and accepted by me.

I'm finding it's certainly a very active and challenging process- not passive or easy.

34.4 seems hopeful that you're well capable of doing it in relation to this man.

[bruce]

Meaty stuff, Millie, your last post.

How we imagine being seen by God, gods, ancestors, conscience, etc. determines how we see others. This 'seeing eye' (or eyes?), as LiSe describes it so wonderfully, does not have all the filters and biased lenses that we have developed over our life. Gaining this 19 view through ones own eyes creates an even keel and a more expansive view from which to live and operate from. This kind of tolerance isn't acquired through effort. It is acquired through removing our 'secret designs' or agendas. What remains is compassion and objectivity.

[bruce]

Want to clarify my use of the word ?effort?. It does, of course, require effort to lose our biased views, but it is the losing which gains the clearer view, not gaining something new to see better. One could say it?s removing the lenses, not adding them.

[millie]

bruce, this is very interesting. one of the things i like most about this man, is the way HE views and accepts others, and i can almost say he lives 19, and just through knowing him has helped me to become more like this also.

going back to the meaning of my dream. 34 to 19. i guess i need to watch my approach to him, that it be at an appropriate level, perhaps not expecting too much. clearly approaching him is what i want to do, and yi seems to agree.

[millie]

i haven't thought much about how good sees me. interesting to think about whether that image is the same one i hold when seeing others. i'll have to think more about this. deep stuff.

[bruce]

Millie, might the dream be using the image of this man to help you see this potential outlook of 19 in you? Dream images of particular people can sometimes point more to the trait and your relation to it rather than to the person in the dream, and this might help to untangle the cart?s axel, allowing things to moves easier with him as well.

[millie]

bruce, that's interesting and i have the gut feeling you're onto something here. i'm leaving out details of the dream. there was a 'wise man' in this dream, a ghandi-like character, who i went to for insight. he's the one who told me all that's needed for us to be together is for us both to make the decision. his image represented my inner wisdom and knowing. i know this. so now yi tells me the point of the dream my next steps are best expressed as 34 to 19. in my waking life i'm struggling with accepting the connection we've shared for what it was, and moving on, or exploring the possibility of something continuing. there are good reasons for us not to move forward (mostly obligations on this part) and i have so far been careful to not push in any way. i know, it needs to be a decision he comes to on his own. i do not want to influence. but i do want to express my wants and needs in a way that sands up for me, without intent of influencing him. i haven't known how to do this, so i've been on hold. i contacted him once, and without a reply, i've been hesitant. but there are things i want to say. we definitely care for each other very much, and this point isn't in question. do you think the 34 with the 19 is more about the line readings? these are making sense to me. it's the relationshp of 34 and 19 that i don't know about yet.

[dobro]

Hey, Millie -

"what would you say is "coming on strong?" is the advice to approach in a strong way? or is it warning to avoid approaching in a strong way?"

I'd say it was a description of what's actually happening, of a powerful surge forward, of a big wave of energy you're riding here. So if you read it that way, then overall the hexagram isn't saying to approach in a strong way, cuz that's already happening! If you draw just the main text of Hex 34, then it's all good. But as I pointed out, certain individual lines give advice or warnings about using the energy unskillfully. Is that 34.3? I forget. But let's say that 34.3 is kinda problematic in some way. Well then, that means that the situation contains a problematic element (34.3) and a good breakthrough element (34.4). What should you do? Minimize the effects of the former, and take advantage of the latter - that's what I'd do, anyway. And overall, know that great power is combining with approach. It's happening already, you don't have to do anything. You just have to nudge the 34.3 aspect in a good direction, and take advantage of the 34.4 aspect.

[millie]

dobro, you've articulated my central question well. as a description of what's already happening, well, it's probably a description of what's happening inside of me, at least. i feel a powerful force regarding him. i don't know for sure what he's feeling. and, there is nothing outwardly happening between us. maybe the problematic element is the hedge i've felt already butt up against (he hasn't replied to my earlier contact, so i feel the way is closed between us. maybe this was temporary?) but it might be that if i try again, the way will now be clear. oh - i just thought of something! when i contacted him before it was light and breezy contact. perhaps what i need to do, is approach him in a more deep and heartfelt way. draw near to him not just by way of making contact, but with how i make contact.

"and overall, know that great power is combing with approach. it's happening already, you don't have to do anything." what does this mean exactly? that there is 'good energy' surrounding this approach?

[bruce]

"do you think the 34 with the 19 is more about the line readings?"

My interpretation of 34 (and lines) was expressed through the word "effort".

It's interesting observing your comments from here: the way references to this ghandi-like wise man in your dreams and this man in your outer realm segue so smoothly back and forth. The connection seems to ring true to you, which I think is what was intended by your ?dream-maker?.

[millie]

bruce, are you suggesting my love interest and ghandi are the same person? i think the ghando figure was a projection of my own inner wisdom.

[bruce]

And so might the man be. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[millie]

hmm. that would suggest the dream wasn't about the man and I at all. rather, the dream was about me, and my own development of character. that's a possibility.

[millie]

well, i just asked yi: what about this idea that the dream was about my character and not at all about me and xx? the answer was 12.6 to 45. ok. i am way toooo close to this situation now to interpret this. i can make a case for the answer being both yes and no, pro and con. can someone please take a look at this and give me some ideas?

[bruce]

?that would suggest the dream wasn't about the man and I at all.?

No it doesn?t. One could be pointing to the other. IE: you meet someone who strikes a deep chord within yourself: It doesn?t necessarily negate the validity of the person you?ve met nor the image you?ve dreamed. You?ve found this man (in waking life) attractive for inner reasons, and your inner world expresses and affirms this through a dream.

The unconscious will use images from our waking life to express an inner truth. It will gather images (45) from daily experiences and use those images to unblock an inner standstill (12.6).

This doesn?t necessarily foretell that you will marry this man and live happily ever after together. But it does reveal at least some of the reason you feel such a strong connection with him. Recognizing the cause of your deep attraction for this man can also serve to liberate you from any obsession you may have toward him. The man is you (animus), or at least an important inner part of you.

[bruce]

One more thing. I doubt you?ll be successful trying to wrap these two synchronized experiences into one neat little box with a tidy bow. In other words, I wouldn?t worry too much about making a conclusive answer from all of this. I would just remain aware of the attractions and influences at work.

[martin]

Hi Millie,

Re your question, I think that hexagram 19 can indeed indicate that there are (too) many options and that it's advisable to choose in the long run or at least to limit the possibilities somehow.
Nigel Richmond, in his alternative inner I Ching, calls this hexagram "Overgrowth".
Part of his text:

----------------------------
Nature
Intimations of spring
are everywhere.
Growth so rich
it will not flower.

Human
Flow into activity is unimpeded,
so free it knows no end.
So young it knows no maturing.

Form
Without regulation
form grows rampant.
-------------------------

I believe that hexagram 19 can also have another meaning that is perhaps more relevant here. I associate the hexagram with Venus influenced by Neptune or Venus in the twelfth house in astrology and that can indicate such things as "lost love", "lost lover" or maybe "spiritual love".
I seems that that fits the situation with your friend quite well.
I hope that you two will be able to solve your problems. All the best! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[martin]

Btw, the text of Richmond also seems to say (and that is in line with "too many possibilities" but the emphasis is a bit different) that things can not stay undefined for long.
Perhaps that is part of the problem that you and your friend now have. The relationship needs to mature, to go somewhere, so to speak. But where should it go?
Do you recognize that?

[peace]

Hi Millie:

To build on what Bruce has said - although this isn't I Ching:

You can write a dialogue between you and this part of you (you can call him your friend's name) and ask him why he is in your life and what he is able to teach you. Then you might want to ask him lots of other questions including where he is in your life in reality, etc.

Rosalie

[bruce]

Martin, that's an interesting line: "Growth so rich it will not flower."

Might this better be rendered: Potential harvest so rich the work may not get done in time? (especially without doing the "ground work")

I'm having a difficult time understanding how rich growth prevents flowering.

[millie]

martin, where does this astrology and yi come from? i've never heard of that. spiritual love is certainly part of what we're about. and yes, what we are is facing the need to mature into something, but what? we are in need of form. good points.

rosalie, i already know the answers to why he's in my life and what he has to teach me. the unanswered question i've been exploring here is the meaning of the dream and best next steps.

[bruce]

hmm.. too much of a good thing makes life lazy; taking ease among the leaves, forgetting to flower and seed. A little hardship is a good thing.

A coyote whispered that in my ear.

[millie]

pregnant pause

the beginning was very rich with tremendous potential. now stagnant, or at least outwardly "on hold"

34 to 19???

i see the two lines (34.3 and 34.4) cancelling each other out.

[millie]

bruce, he may be my animus personafied. certainly he is a compliment to me. but the qualities i see in him aren't so much mascaline qualities (i'd even call them more traditionally feminine!) so not sure what that makes him from a jungian perspective. he has showed me a potential of myself that had as yet not been fully developed within me.

[martin]

Similarities between hexagrams and astrological patterns is one of my "hobbies" http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif, Millie.
I have posted about it before on this forum. You can find posts about it with the forum search (planets and trigrams, for example), if you are interested ...

Bruce, maybe it's just poetical language of Richmond, but I can imagine that a plant is in a hurry and has no time for flowering?! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif
Well, I'm not sure .. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[bruce]

Millie, I'm not a Jungian psychologist so I can't speak conclusively on these things. I'm not so sure the similarities between the two images are essential to their respective values. For example, someone may see a gorilla on TV, and that night have a dream about Big Foot. His unconscious picked up an image that evoked certain mental and emotional stimulation, and played it back in the dream to express something potentially meaningful to him, on a deeper level than the movie had intended. There is a connection, but it doesn't have to be a direct one.

Martin, I've read Bradford's 19 and have discussed this a little with LiSe. Together, Richmond's words makes a great deal more sense to me now.

Sometimes a situation presents so much potential that the lazy, hazy days of summer can pass us by, but fail to yield a lucrative crop, or seeds for the coming time (ninth month there will be misfortune). LiSe pointed out that hardship can be the mother of hard work, which becomes the mother of the harvest.

This has filled in a couple of missing answers from my past experiences with 19. Richly rewarding, I must say.

[bruce]

This to me still points to the necessesity to lose something or to cut something back. A rose bush that's fed and watered well, but not pruned as well, generally yields few flowers, but with long stems and leaves.

Does anyone know a connection between 23 and 19?

[bruce]

pondering lines 1,2 and 6, in both 23 and 19.

The cooperative effort between man and nature.
The uneaten fruit of 23.6.

Maybe it's better to bring hopes and expectations in line with what you're willing and able to tend to, realistically. (Does this speak to you, Millie?)

[millie]

bruce, i was with you until the last post. what necessity do you see to lose something or cut something back? and where do you see this necessity? 19?

i'm getting this sense of an existential panic attack with 19. let me explain. if 19 is about nearing close to something, so close, and therefore seeing it so clearnly, that you are truly intimate and in tune with it's full, grand, capacity and potential ... i can then see a panic in this that causes one to pause and be still for fear of the potential, and then creating a coresponding limit or need to make things smaller and more managable before proceeding. perhaps that's where your thought about a similarity with 19 and 23 comes from? but i would now say, that the point of 19 is to NOT take action that makes the possibilities less than, but to move boldly forward into the beauty with acceptance and love. perhaps this is a meaning of 19?

[martin]

23 or maybe 41, mountain instead of earth on top.
I think the mountain trigam (corresponding to saturn in astrology, I would say) is related to what Freud called the "reality principle", as opposed to the "pleasure principle".
This "reality principle" seems to be operating in all the hexagrams with mountain on top.
It poses a limitation (not everything is possible) and it sometimes feels as hardship.

[millie]

bruce, we crossed posts. above i was commenting on your 8:10 pm posting. now i'm commenting on the 8:23 -

because 23 scares me generaly, and because i didn't throw it in divination, it's difficult for me to ponder it's possible influence or insight in this sitatuion. do i think i need to be more realiztic in my hopes and expectations with this man? maybe.

[millie]

martin, but everything is possible! its us who create limits. the universe doesn't have limits for us. like my ghandi character said, all it takes is a decision. we can decide to be together. we might not make that decision for various reasons, but it is within our power to choose it. besides, 41 contains an offer within it, it's not only about limitation, right?

[martin]

"to move boldly forward into the beauty with acceptance and love."
Oh yes, Millie! However, in hexagram 19 there is this "eight month" caution. I don't think this implies a need to limit your openness or your feelings. But there is some nitty gritty that has to be dealt with, ultimately, to make it real. A kind of "contract" is perhaps needed in this case, to bring this relationship down to earth.

[martin]

"the universe doesn't have limits for us."
True, but I believe WE have chosen certain limits, or "rules of the game", when we chose to be born in this physical reality.
Why we did that? I don't know, an experiment? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[millie]

i think we do it as a means to manage existential panic. one "rule of the game" is marriage. what is a vow? what is committment? is it natural, or best, to stay with one person forever? sometimes yes, and sometimes no, i think. love is all there really is, and as long as its true (not lust) then why not follow it?

that eighth month causion is a whole other point we have not really explored here, and which i still dont' understand about 19.

[martin]

My mundane interpretation of 41 is: as long as you pay your taxes you will be OK. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[jesed]

Hi
Just in case the comment could be useful

In calendaric time.. after 8 months from 19 arrive 20.

Metaphoric: Spring don't last forever... good fortune don't last forever... oportunities don't last forever.. So, you must take them when they are at hand.. or you'll lose them.

Even more: "good luck" came from Heaven, but you need to work to handle it well.

If you do that, you can avoid that 19 turns to 20 but achieve 46... it means, you can avoid diminishing good luck but keep it ascending.

Best wishes

[martin]

Love is all there really is .. does this not include love of the earth?
Look at a flower, it is defined, very precise. Without limits it would be just a fuzzy blur.
I love limits!

[millie]

nicely put.

[bruce]

Millie, I think your word "managing" is better than mine, "losing".

At this point I'm thinking of an occasion some four years ago when I received 19 at a crucial point in a relationship. Everything seemed so open, so possible, and yet it turned out so badly for both of us. I've never felt entirely certain about 19 since then. With such a positive omen, how could it turn out so badly? Answer: neither of us was prepared to manage the size of the farm we had taken on, so to speak. Our eyes were on the goal without fully considering the amount of labor it would take to pull it together in the relatively short time we had. Hence, there came a huge pressure on the relationship and there was misfortune at the turn of the season, and it became bitter cold.

My thanks to Brad for his provocative Yi work. Between he and LiSe, they've clarified something which has bugged me for years.

Millie, I hope this has shed some light on your own situation. It?s been fun traveling through it with you. You seem like a very sharp cookie to me http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif. May the Great Overseer light your way.

[micheline]

I also received 19 once and thought it to be a fruitful omen, only to have it turn cold...the issue was something that never flowered at all.
This was 19.0
I am thinking of the persephene maiden, full of promise and beauteous, but she is the ETERNAL maiden...conceivably the maiden who is not willing to convert into full womanhood, who does not want to get her hands dirty. In mythology, she may be eternal maiden, but in earth life, this archetype finds herself still day-dreaming until one day she sees her reflection and she has become a crone....only without the strength and wherewithal to act meaningfully. Great potential lost to being dreamy and inactive

imo, this reading is saying the time of butting the fence has passed and a window of opportunity has opened. Go through it, with ease and graceful power...spring is beginning. and there is work to be done in the garden. cultivate your possibilities. it is a time for action and overseeing. use a rototiller. pull out those deep weeds. Be happy and energetic.
12.6 >45 confirms this.

[millie]

bruce, thanks for the kind words. i'm sorry to learn you had a difficult time with 19 and a relationship. sounds like there was an opportunity for both of you to 'see more clearly' the totality of your situation and the needs of the times. but i know that can certainly be a difficult thing to do. boy, do i know.

what would you say has been brad's contribution to your understanding of 19? is it very diferent from what lise writes?

have i been helped by this dialogue? well i certainly feel i've gained insight, and see the value of this, but i'm not yet sure I know what to do next. i probably will contact him this week and just take it from there improv style, and see where is goes. there can be nothing lost in trying. if 19 is also about leadership, then perhaps i need to step forward as leader. he then has free will to respond or not. if we were to go forward, it would not be an easy road. we both know this.

[millie]

micheline, thank you for the story. i would not want to become a persephene maiden, hence i'm deciding here and now to take action and see what happens. what action to take? i guess i need to acknoeldge the power and energy between us, and proceed respectfully, speaking my truth.

[bruce]

Micheline, fascinating view of eternal vs earth maiden.

Millie, for my case, you nailed it in a nutshell in your first paragraph. There were also the elements of the earlier part of this thread: the seeing eye was oh-so-ever present throughout the entire time. Nothing happening was without a universal presence. In fact that was a large part of the experience. And two profound dreams, which influence me strongly to this day. Very universal experience.

This should direct you to Bradford?s Translation and Commentary pdf link: Bradford (http://www.hermetica.info/C-YiTran.zip) I think you?ll see for yourself the correlations.

[micheline]

Millie, you can also acknowldge the power and energy available to you, yourself.. and merely use it. what "needs to be done" is usually right there in front of our nose, almost something we would tend to overlook, rather than overSEE. be joyful, grateful...it opens the way! Your readings are encouraging.

My young niece has been with a young man now for two 1/2 years. She is so sweet and lovely, smart and compassionate. She had not been "pushy," and hadnt wanted to be. But today she finally had the nerve to confront this man about their future. He admitted he did not see her as a "longterm" partner. It is sad time for her today, but so much better that she pushed forward to find the truth, instead of wasting more time.
I am not comparing her to you in specifics MIllie, just pointing out that at certain junctures, you have the opportunity to DO something with your flow of energy, rather than waiting to "see what happens".

and the other person's response is not as important as taking the action, overSEEing your own life, flowing your energies to what you desire.