New Solar Cycle-mayan Cosmogenesis

[sergio]

Hi y'all
for those interested in Mayan calendar and ohter things related here is an interesting linkhttp://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/14dec_excitement.htm?list1038452.Apparently a new solar cycle is about to start and ,apparently it will be huge and estimated date would be 2012...Rings a bell? I found it really striking.Hope ypu like it ,guys!
Sergio

[gene]

Yeap

Absolutely correct. We are headed for trouble. This one will be like nothing we have seen to date. And that is not just what the mystics are saying now. It is what our scientists are saying as well.

Gene

[bradford]

I predict that in 2012 all the fruitcakes are suddenly going
to have to come up with a new date to freak out about.

[gene]

Bradford

You haven't been watching much news lately, have you?

[bradford]

Bradford
You haven't been watching much news lately, have you?

Not to put too cheerful and sunny a point on it, but things can get a lot
worse than they're gonna get in the next four years. Just look at
sub-saharan Africa, and still no global birth control effort. It ain't
the numerology of the year that's going to get us - it's pure stupidity.

[sergio]

Hello Brad &Gene;
We are certainly headed for trouble both ways.What is really astounding is how did the Maya get to realize all this,I know they were excellent astronomers/astrologers but it shows command of many technological nuances beyond mere prediction.We are able to check all this only now in the xx/xxi century...Also I do not believe they meant for the Earth to be destroyed in 2012,only that that would be the end of this era,a believe that is echoed by accounts from many other cultures all around the world.Let's wait and see.Besides to predict the end of a civilization is like predicting a human being will die-we are all going to die one day and so would civilzations.BUT to predict it with such accuracy and detail is no mean feat-THE MAYAN FANG HSIS?
Sergio

[gene]

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that this is not just a Mayan prophecy, it is also an Egyptian prophecy. They didn't say it in the same way, but it comes out to the exact same message for the exact same year. And not only that, it is coded into Biblical prophecy too, just not apparent on the surface. There were several of the more advanced ancient peoples who said the same thing, about the same year.

How did they know? It goes back to what I said about the I Ching that no one wants to listen to either. It was a gift from heaven. The I Ching could not be what it is if it were made up by a bunch of Chinese 5000 years ago. Think of this, a book that predict our future? A book that gives us infinite wisdom? And some old Chinese guy just made it up? Give me a break!!!

And now, I need to go into a bit of a discourse here. I came back to this site two or three, maybe four months ago, because I was hoping to make a difference. I love the people here, even though it seems to me like I was always fighting with them. The people here have a wonderful ability to teach things about the I Ching, and the exchange of ideas are great. People are presenting a lot of valuable things here. But there needs to be a greater emphasis on the spiritual side of it, and there all too often isn't. I don't expect it out of the beginners. People are concerned with their lives, with their relationships, these are the things that matter, but when you try to tell them about spiritual things, they just close their eyes because they are not ready for it. Okay, I don't expect anything more. I'll just give them the best answer I can on their relationship problem. But I expect more from the senior members and I don't get it. They too are refusing to look at the spiritual side of this, so often, I feel like I am just wasting my time here. I've got a lot to teach, but I am constantly being told that people don't want it...

Listen to me people. When I talk about the 2012 scenario, I know exactly what I am talking about. I have made no error. I mean what I say and I say what I mean. I know this stuff like the back of my hand. I get emails from around the world about all these things we discuss every day. I can't even read them all, I can't even come close. I know what I am talking about. I know exactly what I am talking about, and I am making no mistake.

Can we change it? Yes. Does it have to happen? No, not at all. But the only way we can change these prophecies, and coded right into the prophecies themselves, is the question, will you change it? We can. But the only way to change the prophecy is to start looking at the spiritual side of this, and as long as we do not, the prophecies are going to happen. They are going to happen. And it does no good to tell highly intelligent people who knows these things, and have a great depth of understanding of these things, that they are fruitcakes. You need to develop a spiritual life first, before you are qualified to tell somebody they are a fruitcake.

And don't assume that I can't know the things I say I know. It is foolhearty to believe that you can decide what someone else knows or doesn't know. If I say I have a deep understanding of the nature of the cosmos, believe me, I do. And it comes from studying the I Ching and other sacred books. The info is there, if you know how to look for it.

I don't want to fight with everyone on here, I just want to present my material, and my case, as best as I can. I learn from you. I appreciate deeply the things I learn here. Try learning from me. I won't be that bad. I am not a fruitcake.

Gene

[rosada]

So what is your take on the Mayan Calendar, Gene?

[bradford]

I am not a fruitcake.
Gene

I guess the proper time to respond to that will be January 1, 2013 :)

[sparhawk]

I believe fruitcakes have an undeserved fame. If undisturbed, they last almost forever and is therefore a good daoist metaphor for immortality. Also, if you soak them in brandy for 24 to 48 hours, they are quite decent, although, I'm not sure if that is the brandy doing the talking... :rofl:

I think your bias against fruitcakes is uncalled for... :D

[listener]

Gene, In kindness, I say to you what I say to other doomsday prophets: fear is not a decent motivator. the problem cannot be solved on the level of the problem. can you Teach spirituality? It doesnt need to be taught, it is inherent. the portal is not fear-

To say you don't find spirituality in the senior members....what YOU see is what YOU get.

I'd say , let's get realistic here. we got bradford who is an architect. he can begin drawing up the plans for our solar=powered get away compound. I am great gardener so I will start now to gather and pack the necessary stuff for an organic garden. we will all need bycycles, so let's start planning for that...buy one, and begin to accumulate the repair equipment, etc. Luis, be prepared to bring all your I Ching volumes and a lot of coins because we will need them, and it's less for the rest of us to think about. Rosada lives in the woods, so maybe she can start a kindling and firewood stockpile. we need to decide on a date to meet, plan to get the airline tickets for everyone before the global economy collapses ( and the airlines for gods sakes) Please consult the I Ching for the exact date.....geez, how are we ever gonna convince Trojan that this is for real? that's another problem...we'll figure it out. BUt for god sakes, we gotta get moving. we only have four years. there is no time to lose.

my point, gene, is GIVE us something real. Don't just talk fear, tell everyone what YOU think should be done, in real practical terms. and please dont just say "get spiritual" :duh:

[trojan]

I'd say , let's get realistic here. we got bradford who is an architect. he can begin drawing up the plans for our solar=powered get away compound. I am great gardener so I will start now to gather and pack the necessary stuff for an organic garden. we will all need bycycles, so let's start planning for that...buy one, and begin to accumulate the repair equipment, etc. Luis, be prepared to bring all your I Ching volumes and a lot of coins because we will need them, and it's less for the rest of us to think about. Rosada lives in the woods, so maybe she can start a kindling and firewood stockpile. we need to decide on a date to meet, plan to get the airline tickets for everyone before the global economy collapses ( and the airlines for gods sakes) Please consult the I Ching for the exact date.....geez, how are we ever gonna convince Trojan that this is for real? that's another problem...we'll figure it out. BUt for god sakes, we gotta get moving. we only have four years. there is no time to lose.

:

:rofl: well its my tough luck if i won't believe you'll have to leave me to die :eek: -

[topal]

Hi Gene,

Perhaps I can offer some suggestions here. And please understand that this is NOT done to aggravate,annoy or to hurt you. Only to suggest some reasons as to why you seem frustrated and why you are not receiving the responses you so obviously crave.

The first reason I think is the assumption that you have the answers. The impression here is what counts. When you give the impression that you know it all, then people will switch off.

"What a lot of people don't seem to realize is..."

You see? That will immediately get people's backs up. You are explicitly setting yourself up as teacher. You do this a lot and you wonder why people don't respond?

"And now, I need to go into a bit of a discourse here. I came back to this site two or three, maybe four months ago, because I was hoping to make a difference."

Big mistake. You cannot hope or anticipate making a difference. You can only "speak your truth" as the cliche goes and learn to share. Say what you have to say but without any expectations people are going to agree or even be interested. Free-will is paramount here.

"I love the people here, even though it seems to me like I was always fighting with them."

So, maybe a change of approach is needed?


"The people here have a wonderful ability to teach things about the I Ching, and the exchange of ideas are great. People are presenting a lot of valuable things here. But there needs to be a greater emphasis on the spiritual side of it, and there all too often isn't. I don't expect it out of the beginners."

Who says? That's an assumption. I'm as keen on you to get information out to folks WHO ARE ASKING. That is very different. Don't expect anything - you are not in the position to be judge and jury on other people's ideas of spirituality. The more you insist that you have "a deep understanding of the Cosmos" the more that is telling people that you don't. Look carefully at your presentation and the tone of your communication for a moment. The impression is arrogance and egoism. Sure, that may be entirely the wrong impression. Nevertheless, that is the one that is most obvious - which is a shame.

"People are concerned with their lives, with their relationships, these are the things that matter, but when you try to tell them about spiritual things, they just close their eyes because they are not ready for it. Okay, I don't expect anything more."

Clearly you are expecting more and heavily invested in the idea. They may not be ready for it or the messenger needs to hone his communication skills. Or more importantly, it may be perfectly right and proper for others not to subscribe to your take on reality...

"I'll just give them the best answer I can on their relationship problem. But I expect more from the senior members and I don't get it. They too are refusing to look at the spiritual side of this, so often, I feel like I am just wasting my time here. I've got a lot to teach, but I am constantly being told that people don't want it..."

So...How about looking at the idea that it maybe something YOU are doing...There's a thought.

"Listen to me people. When I talk about the 2012 scenario, I know exactly what I am talking about. I have made no error. I mean what I say and I say what I mean. I know this stuff like the back of my hand. I get emails from around the world about all these things we discuss every day. I can't even read them all, I can't even come close. I know what I am talking about. I know exactly what I am talking about, and I am making no mistake."

I....I...I...I....

You are heavily invested in the idea that you know what you are talking about. It's clear that such an idea is very important to you. Again, if the impression you are giving that you are not aware of how you appear to people then all this learning amounts to nothing more than a way to buttress your self-importance.


"Can we change it? Yes. Does it have to happen? No, not at all. But the only way we can change these prophecies, and coded right into the prophecies themselves, is the question, will you change it? We can. But the only way to change the prophecy is to start looking at the spiritual side of this, and as long as we do not, the prophecies are going to happen."

I think the only way to change it is to change ourselves and we don't do that by preaching to people and assuming we have the answers.

The spiritual side has to be defined precisely. And it will very likely be different for everyone. What is your definition?

"They are going to happen. And it does no good to tell highly intelligent people who knows these things, and have a great depth of understanding of these things, that they are fruitcakes. You need to develop a spiritual life first, before you are qualified to tell somebody they are a fruitcake."

Meaning that you Gene, are "highly intelligent", "have a great depth of understanding" and that you have developed a spiritual life. So, why so much self-importance?

"And don't assume that I can't know the things I say I know. It is foolhearty to believe that you can decide what someone else knows or doesn't know. If I say I have a deep understanding of the nature of the cosmos, believe me, I do. And it comes from studying the I Ching and other sacred books. The info is there, if you know how to look for it."

Self-importance. You really are desperate to have us believe it. If you look at what you have written you can turn it around. Yes it is - foolhardy - or rather arrogant "to decide what someone else knows or doesn't know."

So, apply that to your stance here.

"I don't want to fight with everyone on here, I just want to present my material, and my case, as best as I can. I learn from you. I appreciate deeply the things I learn here. Try learning from me. I won't be that bad. I am not a fruitcake."

We are ALL fruitcakes Gene.

So, present your material just don't expect everyone to agree with you. That's life.

Take care Gene,

Topal

[martin]

We are ALL fruitcakes Gene.


Hey, come on, speak for yourself! :D

But yes, I guess that's the problem, Gene. Self importance, something like that. In any case, you come across as if you're taking yourself and your understanding a tiny little bit too seriously.

And well, I don't know what 'spiritual' means and as far as I'm concerned the word belongs in the garbage bin, with all those other too big words (bigger than life words, is there anything bigger than life? NO!) but if you take yourself too seriously you may know and understand a lot but it doesn't mean anything because you don't understand the only thing that really matters and because of that doesn't matter at all and that is that you and I are only figments of our own imagination. (yeah, long sentence, are you still breathing?)
You don't exist, neither do I. We are both apparitions. Holes in the universe. Take a good look at yourself, you are a hole!
What does that leave to teach? Nothing whatsoever.

:D

[rosada]

Okay, I think Gene probably gets it by now. Having made that clear, I for one am still interested in knowing what this whole Mayan Calendar 2012 thing is all about. I've read a few articles on the web and beyond saying, "The world will come to an end," I haven't seen anything that makes sence. I did read that the Mayan's would have considered this date simply the last day of the cycle and flipped back to page one, just as we do on December 31 - we flip the page to January and the start the cycle all over again. So anyway, I really am curious to hear from someone who can explain to me why all the hoopla. Gene?

[trojan]

You don't exist, neither do I. We are both apparitions. Holes in the universe. Take a good look at yourself, you are a hole!


:D

To add to Listeners assignation of roles in the event of (? )the 2012 thing, I say we have Martin as philosopher/priest. He can say things like the above to keep morale up when we are hungry and so on. :mischief:

[martin]

Yeah, priest is the only option I guess, as I'm totally useless in any other area, two left hands! :rofl:

[rosada]

Well since Gene isn't rushing to give us the benefit of his spiritual insight, I'm gonna share what I think we are headed for with 2012. Begining as how the Mayan Calendar marks the date (?) in Dec. as being the last day of a major cycle, I'm guessing we are heading for a big time New Year's Eve celebration. I speculate that at the begining of this cycle 2600 years ago, New Year's Resolutions were made and now Group Consciousness is going to be rapidly, obviously aligning in the next 5 years to be who/where/what consciousness vowed to be at this point when those resolutions were first made so long ago. Now, wouldn't it be nice to know/remember what the heck we signed on for? As it's going to involve all the known Universe, I speculate that the core resolution was that on Dec. 2012 we will experience/recognize that we are all one. What do you think? Does that sound plausible? Are we heading in that direction now? Just look how this discussion of 2012 has evolved, we're talking about group effort and assigning ourselves the role we could play in a community. Like just the thought of 2012 awakens idea's for group interconnection. I think we are going to more and more recognize team spirit evolving in our lives this year, seeing how people and events seem to be aligning so we can work with each other as outlined in hex.s 37 - 48.
Anyway, just rambling, but I think 2012 does present us with an interesting opportunity to have a group deadline to shoot for to get our act together. I think back at the Harmonic Convergence. I didn't participate in that group exercise and my life has gone along just fine, but I have friends who did and they really felt their lives were enhanced. I think it's the same with 2012. You can use it as a focus and your world will line up behind the idea. Or you can ignor it and line your world up behind some other belief.

[sergio]

HELLO SENIOR MEMBERS!
I guess the sr.members have answer the call and then some.The Mayan Calendar and its doomsday scenario can certainly produce a wide array of opposing view points.It is wise to put things in perspective and analyze all the facts we have at hand to eventually arrive to a conclusion and start the debates it will raise from a more realistic angle.First,I would like to repeat that the Mayans are pointing to the end of a cycle not to be confused with the end of the planet 2. that there is no consensus as to what the real date might be.3.The Mayan Elders Council disagree with all this theories mostly emanating from Western scholars' interpretations of their myths(no patronizing intended 4.The "big hoopla"about the Mayas is that they were very skilfull astronomers/astrologers.They were able to calculate a calendar that is different to ours by three seconds,among other achievements.They also took precise observations of the Sun and its effect in our planet.Having said all that I think we have to be very carefull with our interpretations of the Mayan Prophecies and avoid a Messianic approach to it.Most of it stems out of certain 'Divine Downloads" by some questionable characters who cannot defend their views any other way.But in the case that all this proves to be real there is nothing we can do about it if it all comes down to solar flares or asteroids hitting the earth or reversal of the earths magnetic poles.So listen and talk all we might will not change the situation-nor arguing about it.The greatest lesson, then,comes from acknowledging the lessons we learned from the Yi when it comes to try changing the inevitable flow of events-to get through them as best as we can and keep on going.
last but not least,all this turmoil arises from our interpreting a text by projecting our emotions,fears and conceptions.Let's continue gathering the pieces of the puzzle,suspend our beliefs and trust that if the message was so important it would have been relaid to us more clearly.
Sergio

[listener]

Yeah, priest is the only option I guess, as I'm totally useless in any other area, two left hands! :rofl:

do you want to be in charge of the beer?;)

[listener]

I guess we shooed Gene off. That wasnt my intention. I couldnt open the site about 2012. I remember being a youngen and seeing a great big painted graffitti wall that said "Beware 1969"...I think that was a year predicted to be a MIghty Disaster too. And then there ws that song, "we're on the eve of destruction..."

I am not exactly a nay-sayer to tides of change. I personally think the human race is on a fast track to obliteration.... but "fast track" could be mean a lot of things . I don't say it with fear exactly because ultimately, in the Grand Picture, it wouldnt mean that much.....consciousness would find another playground.

I love the books by Madeline L'Engle...the trilogy she wrote starting with A Wrinkle In Time has a middle book entitled The Wind In The Door. In this book, a body is dying, and the characters go on a mission to find out why.....they enter the body and find the source of the disease: rebel mitochondria are refusing to cooperate with the rest of the system, refusing to "deepen" and become part of the whole.

I wonder sometimes if this can be likened to the Cells of people who whirl around saying: we can do whatever we want! have whatever we want! I am not responsible for anybody but me, I create my own reality!

We do create our reality, and perhaps that's the trouble. Without a deepened, conscious relationship to the whole, there is not a progressive Harmony but dissonance and unhappiness. As the course in Miracles says, we have the tiny drop of ego, with amazing arrogance, proclaiming itself to be The Ocean. The tiny drop IS a microcosm of the whole, and yet for the purposes of the Planet, harmony is not achieved until we move with the larger purpose, the surrender to what is.

My problem with doomsday prophets is that Fear only strengthens the ego and makes it more determined to protect itself. Not so ironically, you can't "fight" for peace or fight for change. Be peace. be change. Surrender is confused with passivity and "sitting around singing kumbaya" but actually, it is very muchthe opposite. True peace is vibrant, is clarity and right action.

and so far as sitting around singing kumbaya, don't knock it. Jean Houston talks of visiting a tribe of "primitive people" who, when one of their own gets sick, form a cluster and chant, sing and beat drums for days and weeks until the disease disappears. As a group, they create such a strong resonance of peace and wholeness, that dis-ease cannot survive in it's midst.

I thnk we shouldnt forget that the essence of What Is is not something to be feared. It is goodness and Joy and everflowingly abundant grace. and it has a ROBUST sense of humor!

[bradford]

I liked Aleister Crowley's tongue in cheek eschatology - in 1917 he announced that the world had already been destroyed by fire in 1903. Maybe the most bucolic year ever.

[sergio]

That's really a great qoute,Bradford!He may had been right,Maybe this(the end)is a procees that endures for 6 stages until it suddenly changes into something else.We'll find out in 2013.I'll make a note to discuss it in this forum at that time.
Sergio

[martin]

A few weeks ago I came across a video about Amritanandamayi, the 'hugging saint', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTh4MXQ8H2I&feature=related
I suppose that quite a few people see her as yet another fruitcake but I love what she is doing.
She is not just talking about it, but actually doing it! Hugging millions of people, loving them in the most concrete way, and apart from that she created an organisation that builds schools and hospitals and tries to help wherever people are in trouble.
Such a big heart, fabulous. :)

I sometimes wonder how she does it. I saw her (in another video) after one of those long hugging sessions and her cheeks were all black. She must have bacteria and viruses all over her face :eek: but it doesn't seem to affect her.
And according to people near her she gets only a few hours of sleep at night. How does she do it? I think I would drop dead after a week if I tried to live her life.

[bradford]

A few weeks ago I came across a video about Amritanandamayi, the 'hugging saint',

I do that, but I try to pace myself - big hugs for one or two pretty girls a week

[sergio]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/10jan_solarcycle24.htm?list1038452
JUST TO ADD MORE WOOD TO THE FIRE...
SERGIO

[topal]

A few weeks ago I came across a video about Amritanandamayi, the 'hugging saint', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTh4MXQ8H2I&feature=related
I suppose that quite a few people see her as yet another fruitcake

More like a cup-cake. :D

Topal

[martin]

Anyway, it's not an asteroid that is going to hit us in 2012, or a cake.
It's a discovery. Finally, our true nature will be revealed.
Scientists are already glimpsing the truth. We are floating ....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5070&en=5cf01efe41904c50&ex=1201150800&emc=eta1

:D

[topal]

Anyway, it's not an asteroid that is going to hit us in 2012, or a cake.
It's a discovery. Finally, our true nature will be revealed.
Scientists are already glimpsing the truth. We are floating ....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5070&en=5cf01efe41904c50&ex=1201150800&emc=eta1

:D

“If you are reincarnated, why do you care about where you are reincarnated?” he asked. “It sounds crazy because here we are touching issues we are not supposed to be touching in ordinary science. Can we be reincarnated?”

“People are not prepared for this discussion,” Dr. Linde said.

lol. Well, HE isn't obviously. :rofl:

Topal

[bradford]

I just watched a special on the History Channel called "Doomsday 2012." It managed to link together all of the prophesies from anywhere in human history and tie them all to this single date. It even asserted that the I Ching was involved, and Einstein of course. The word science was misused at least fifty times. The only famous living fruitcake that I didn't see represented was José Arguelles, which puzzled me. They even threw Shermer in there a few times to make it look like they wee being skeptical, like they were minds not utterly devoid of reason and discipline. Watch for this to rerun. It will absolutely confirm every belief a believer can have. Catch it before the poles reverse.

[gene]

Okay, so I am finally getting around to reading the rest of this, as I have not gotten a thing done this weekend. (Actually I got a lot done, but as usual it is only a drop in the bucket, and I need another 10000 hours just to be less behind, let alone catch up. But anyway, my take.

What happens will depend on the level of understanding of the people on this planet. People talk about a thing to fear, and that is not it at all. There is nothing to fear. There is no death, it is an illusion, as are all things. What happens depends a lot on what our governments, and its institutions, the military industrial complex, and everyone involved, other governments as well, does to uplift humanity rather than sacrifice it. Actually this is a very exciting time, one when we get to see the culminating of one age, and the start of another. A most excellent age I might add.

I must say, there are those in positions of power, and not everyone in power, but some of those in positions of power, who do not wish the best for mankind. If there is any kind of destruction, it will be in response to the war making machines on this planet who's intent it is to wipe out most of humanity.

I have been preaching for a long time that we are all one. No one wants to hear it. But how you hear it, and how much of it you hear, will position you for better or worse in the new age. Not because of some angry God, but because of natural law and karma.

This runs counter intuitive to everything we see and hear. To the natural mind, it doesn't make sense, because we see diversity and separate objects all around us. But believe me, and this is very, very important. When we recognize the oneness of all things, we recognize that sunspot activity is only a natural result of the energy we put out. If we put energy into war, we have sunspots, and vice versa, because it all acts in a form of singularity. If we have governments that are trying to enslave people, as governments around the world are doing, the natural environment picks up on that energy, and mother nature begins to act up.

The new age can come peacefully or not. It doesn't have to bring within it the strain of negativity and disaster. It depends on how we recognize our oneness, and when we carpet bomb entire nations, we are doing it to ourselves because we are all one.

Any changes that happen within the earth are not meant to hurt individuals within the earth, it is the natural outcome of the type of energy produced by man.

We were just missed today by an asteroid that came as close to us as one and one half times the distance of the moon. A few days ago, there were some scientist who thought it might hit us. There was a fifty fifty chance. It didn't. Is that by chance? Or because millions of people visualized it bouncing off an imaginary circle around the earth? I don't know. It could have been both. But I have seen mass consciousness make many differences in people's lives and the life of the planet. We are thinking positive thoughts, but I can guarantee you there are many people who are not. They want death, the want destruction, and the want the earth cleansed of the people the call, "useless eaters."

Why is this happening? it all goes back several thousand years ago, when "the gods" interfered genetically with human dna, and created what amounted to a master and a slave race. The dna is slightly different. The so caled master race was denied their prize of the enslavement of mankind by various means, but they never gave up. They are still among us, some of them know exactly who they are, and they are still trying to enslave us. They will stop at nothing, including mass murder, but they will be foiled again, because of the coming earth changes, If they don't change their ways. That is what it all depends on, is the thoughts of men.

The whole idea of a 2012 is not for destruction, it is not meant to be destructive. It is happening because the minds of men are being evolutionarily modernized, we are becoming aware of our oneness, and our place in the universe. We are becoming enlightened.The new age is a wonderful thing, not a bad thing.

Gene

[gene]

I put a copy of this on my website genesiching.blogspot.com

I might also add, those who wish the destruction of mankind will win for a while, if they do not change their ways, and many will die by their hands, but then the destruction will come in response to their negative ways, and those who refuse to make a spiritual leap in understanding will likely not survive for whatever reason.

Gene

[willowfox]

The planet Earth has been in existence for billions of years, do you really believe that the end of a calendar spells ultimate disaster for the World? What absolute nonsense. I see absolutely no chance of any golden era coming into existence on the 1st January, 2013 in actual fact I see the opposite continuing to occur, starvation, overcrowding, turmoil, greed, destruction of the environment, more and more people packing into the cities, the future looks bleak not rosy. Also, aliens are not the cause of mankind's woes that honour lies with humans alone and human nature is not going to change if ever.

We don't need spiritual, ineffective guidance, we all need very sensible, practical and down to earth guidance but unfortunately that is not going to happen. If people stopped putting their faith in empty "gods" we would all be a lot better off. Religion is like a plague and is the cause of so much illness and discomfort in the world. You will find that people enslave themselves through weakness and sheer stupidity, they want to lean on someone else all the time, they want others to make the decisions for them, that is why so many people believe in a non existent "god". Don't blame the bosses, blame the rank and file for not standing up for themselves.

So, on January the 1st the world and its human inhabitants will be alive, perhaps not well, and be continuing their downward spiral. Life on Earth does look doomed in the long term but certainly not by any Mayan calendar.

Anyway, it is not even a "prophecy".

[stewlsa]

sounds like Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy to me

[trojan]

The only thing that I have read that stuck in my mind about 2012 was that it would be the time where material law fell into line with spiritual law. I took this to mean a kind of reversal of the hexagram 12 state of things where what is worthless earns the most reward. I actually think there may be subtle shifts in consciousness coming. Evolution goes on its not static. No reason to think because things have always been a certain for eons they will continue to be so. Who knows 'how things work' really. Some people would insist its all political or all economic but I think theres layers and layer of reality - and a law of how things work has to perish some day like everything else.



BTW it seems even chimps are evolving mentally. Saw TV programme yesterday where a chimp could win at memory games over human expert - hmm supposing chimps begin to evolve beyond us - (or isn't that what planet of the apes was about I don't know.)

I'm not saying I believe there will be a shift of any kind in 2012 but neither can I see why there shouldn't be a big shift of some kind for humans/earth consciousness after that time . And who knows how that might manifest. Anyhow I'm certainly not going to worry about it ...

[gene]

Who said anything about religion? or aliens? Spirituality has nothing to do with religion, in fact, in the evolutionary leap forward, religion will be swept away. There are humans on this planet however, who want to take overcrowding into their own hands, and kill many of us off. This will be done, if they succeed, through war, famine, and the purposeful destruction of world economies. This has nothing to do with religion, it is simply fact. If you don't know about this, you haven't been paying a lot of attention to what is going on in the world.

Gene

[gene]

Um, yes, the chimps. A good point in hand. It is a scientifically proven fact that the human species only has three per cent of its dna turned on. This means, technically, that fruit flies are more evolved than we are. This also means, conclusively, that someone somewhere, has tinkered with our dna and purposely switched much of it off. The difference between animals and humans is that humans can consciously manipulate their own behavior, and change it. They can also, amazingly, it is now being found out, change their own dna up to a point. In time we will be able to do it consciously, and have much greater power. But think about this people, the only real difference is we have a conscious mind that can calculate ways to manipulae the world. The animals go off the subconscious mind, and simply do what is in their nature to do. However, in terms of doing what is in their nature to do, they are very, very good and it and very smart. In many ways, animals are much more capable and much more capable than we are. Isn't it amazing how all animals have dna that fixes them right into their environment? They are naturals at finding food and homes right within nature itself. And pound for pound, most animals are far stronger than human beings. We need weapons to fight them. They need no weapons. Chimps are in many ways smarter, and far stronger than human beings, while being significantly smaller.

Think about this. We are using three percent of our dna. The rest is switched off. Animals use more. This is scientific fact my friends. Someone has tampered with our dna.


Gene

[rosada]

Gene,
You talk about being "spiritual" but you are so divisive in the way you present your ideas. For example you say, "I have been preaching for a long time that we are all one. No one wants to hear it." NO ONE? So what does that make me? What does that make all the folks here who have encouraged you to post? Talk about bullies trying to enslave humanity!

Anyway, be of good cheer. I just read over on the projectcamelot.com site that the time travelers have fixed the 2012 glitch and rather than the poles shifting and Mars flooding we're all going to be teleported to safe zone in the 70's. Disco Lives!

rosada

[gene]

Oh, okay, Rosada. Good point. But those that want to hear it never say anything. All I hear is argument. And granted, in many ways I have brought in on myself. Years ago, when I taled about conspiracy stuff, which is now technically illegal to talk about, since HR 1955, I believe it was, passed in January of this year, making it illegal to try to convince anyone of anything that is not the government's official position, (check it out folks, I am not joking. It is the anti homegrown terrorist bill which passed the house in January) I did become somewhat divisive. I know exactly what I am talking about. And it seems that people just do not want to hear the truth. Some do, however, and some know these things better than I do. But it is often an appearance to me that I am just talking in the wind, and it is useless.

Gene

[trojan]

We can manipulate our environment I guess because of our particular kind of self consciousness(among other things, like thumbs), we're not completely trapped by our animal nature - but my point was and this may sound fanciful, that who is to say animals may not evolve to develop their own consciousness, growing beyond their instinctive natures. We were apes once, maybe we will evolve to a more sophisticted type of animal - even dare I say it in a good way, heightened awareness

Gene I don't know why you hold so firmly to your belief that no one understands you. I'm beginning to think you have a messiah complex. I think everyone understands what you talk about they just don't always agree with you and why should they ? I'm just wondering what kind of response you actually want ?

[martin]

Wow, those chimps :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqlS3r388ZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQqefwtpuEc

[willowfox]

You were the one who mentioned some nonsense about "gods" or did you mean aliens tampering with our DNA? So, if you didn't mean aliens then who are these "supposed gods" or have you been reading too many Alexander Sitchen books? So called "alien gods" from a planet in our Solar System which nobody can see or find, with an orbit that takes it out past Pluto, wow, what rubbish!

[willowfox]

Think about this. We are using three percent of our dna. The rest is switched off. Animals use more. This is scientific fact my friends. Someone has tampered with our dna.


Gene

Where did you read this nonsense about our DNA supposedly being switched off? In a UFO/ World leaders conspiracy magazine perhaps? Or in a another totally nonsense Sitchen book? Our DNA has not been tampered with by anyone, and neither by any so called "gods" either, most of our woes come from mutating genes which cause themselves to change and /or switch off. But the percentage of malfunctioning genes in a human is very small.

You are opening yourself up to attack and ridicule by the nonsense you are claiming is the only truth and claiming to know exactly what gibberish you are talking about. I thought this rubbish stopped back in the 70's and 80' when it was quite popular to believe in World Order and aliens tampering with our DNA and giving each of us an "implant" up our noses.

Correct me if I am wrong but both the Egyptians and the Mayans never ever made any prophecies about the end of anything in 2012, it is all just pure fantasy for the simple minded.

[sergio]

The Mayans did say that the end of this world we are living right now(the fifth world)would come to an end on what is broadly(and arguably,too)agreed to be 2012.They said that the four previous worlds were destroyed by catastrophes (fire-water-etc..)and so will this.Among other things they predicted accurately the arrival of the spaniards to the New World and also their own demise.They also had a calendar different than the one we use today by only three seconds so I think we should be a little more respectful of their history ,achievements and beliefs.Just because what they said does not fit into our belief system does not allow for anybody to discredit,ridicule or critizise.People say the very same things about the Yi when they are told that by fipping a few coins or dividing stalks a book can answer questions and give advise.But if we suspend our beliek and approach these things(the Yi,the Mayan Calendar)with an open mind sometimes we can be surprised.I am not saying to take the Mayan Prophecies as the Gospel truth but to be broad minded about it and be constructively critical .I think that religion is the absolute lack of criticism that precipitates all these interesting issues into nonsence and doomsday scenarios and then is nearly impossible to extract meaningful information for anybody to discuss. I personally think that the end is not an end but a beginning on this particular subject but we shall never know untill 2013-in the meantime I would like to examine,investigate and gather clues if they show up along the way.Maybe we can arrive to the truth .
Sergio

[martin]

I wonder why so many people are fascinated by disasters that might happen. It's nearly as if they WANT them to happen.
Recently there was a lot of upheaval on the web about asteroid TU24 that came close to earth on jan. 29. Astronomers knew already for some time that there was no reason for concern as it was clear that the thing would pass earth at a safe distance. But rumours started to spread. Nasa was in fact 'very worried', they were 'hiding' something because they wanted to avoid panic, "Discussion about Asteroid 2007 TU24 has NASA concerned. Numerous solutions indicate an Earth impact". Lol.

Why? Is it a death wish? Do people secretly or not so secretly hope that some disaster will put an end to their misery? Or is it just that they are bored?

[sparhawk]

Just in case, let's be prepared with the proper uniforms... (http://cgi.ebay.com/DECEMBER-21-2012-END-OF-DAYS-WORLD-ENDING-12-21-T-SHIRT_W0QQitemZ270207114899QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1568 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :D

[bradford]

Just in case, let's be prepared with the proper uniforms... (http://cgi.ebay.com/DECEMBER-21-2012-END-OF-DAYS-WORLD-ENDING-12-21-T-SHIRT_W0QQitemZ270207114899QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1568 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :D

Please. I'm dressing up in proper attire with my homies,
with due respect for the gravity of that honored day.

http://www.hermetica.info/Ceremony.jpg

[listener]

Gene I don't know why you hold so firmly to your belief that no one understands you. I'm beginning to think you have a messiah complex. I think everyone understands what you talk about they just don't always agree with you and why should they ? I'm just wondering what kind of response you actually want ?

messiah complex? what ever gives you that idea?:rofl:

I am still waiting for Gene, the teacher, to give some small bit of practical advice...beyond "get spiritual!" "WE ARE ALL ONE!" gee, what novel ideas. how come I never heard those before?

[sergio]

Hey Listener!You wanted practical advise?Take this one:The uniform of the Mayan Apocalpytus Club has been officially introduced by GrandMaster Brad .
.Please note the broom hat for easy brushing off of the eventual debris produce by the cataclysm and don't forget your undershirt courtesy of Sparhawk Enterprises.This Valentine's show them you care!-Free membership if purchased before January 2013-
Sergio

[gene]

Hello everyone

No messiah complex here. I don't really care. And I don't mind discussion. What I do have a problem with is people talking about things that they are not qualified to discuss. And do not have any real knowledge about. If you don't have the knowledge, get it. At least listen to what people are saying who are much more knowledgeable, whether you agree or not. That just makes sense. Find out what is going on in the world. Then we can discuss. Not only do I not get honest discussion, people tell me I can't know what I know, which is ridiculous.

Gene

[jesed]

Not only do I not get honest discussion, people tell me I can't know what I know, which is ridiculous.

Well; if some people around here can made a psicological evaluation of your personality without even 1 hour of therapy (ey, you earned a lot of money here), that should include they know you don't know what you know. Right?

:confused:

[topal]

Not only do I not get honest discussion, people tell me I can't know what I know, which is ridiculous.


It doesn't matter how much knowledge you have Gene, if your approach is all wrong, which is indicative of lack of knowledge of oneself, then the inevitable result is that you might as well know nothing.

I agree with some of what you say but you're too dogmatic and preachy. And that can happen when you're passionate about a subject and you genuinely want to share. (I have that problem sometimes)

For example, No one KNOWS if our DNA has been tampered with. I personally think it is highly likely that this is the case. But if you state it as a certainty when most people still have problems getting to grips with government collusion on 9/11 let alone subjects such as DNA manipulation then you're going to get reactions like WF's. And I can't blame her. If you are going to talk about such things you need to lead up to it and give proper citations IF there is interest.

I wouldn't base so much of your belief on New Age channelling either - it 's highly suspect for a number of reasons. But then, I guess you already know that right?

Well, anyway, you didn't answer any of the other points I made before so I won't expect anything here either. :D

Topal

[stewlsa]

According to Nostradamus its not until the year 7000 so I dont think it will bother me too much

[listener]

HUBBARD: ...You see, many people are afraid of the technological power because of its obvious destructiveness. But I was saying we wouldn't have had all this power if there wasn't a purpose. It's somewhat arrogant to sit here and say all these hundreds of years of effort have all been a mistake, and that we should only go back, because we can't, anyway. What is biotechnology, nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, artificial life? Does this have a meaning? Well, I have many other ideas on this, but the first meaning, I think, is to knit the planet together into a conscious organism. Each person has the potential to self-actualize within that organism, and to actually feel themselves as linked up to the whole.

... Saint Paul said -- "Behold, I show you a mystery. We shall not all sleep. We shall all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye."

Peter Russell, in his latest book, The White Hole in Time, has spoken of the acceleration of consciousness, and he makes it like -- a black hole suddenly becomes so dense that all light is absorbed in it and never escapes. Peter says there's a time on the planet where all light connects and you have an explosion of consciousness, of actually white light, which radically transforms our consciousness collectively.

MISHLOVE: I know Jean Houston uses the term whole systems transition, as if something suddenly happens and everything is different. And yet there seems to be a frightening aspect of this. We have many myths in the culture of human beings becoming like robots, and we're afraid of powerful social orders to which everybody must conform, and the idea of a group mind that we're part of. It seems to be robbing people of their individuality. How do you reconcile that with the idea of self-actualization?

HUBBARD: Well, you see, if it works right, if you take the image of a birth, birth is dangerous, and there's nothing guaranteed. You can have a very sick baby, you can have a dead baby, you can have a baby that kills the mother to be born, or you can have a normal baby. Now, a planetary birth, in my understanding, is a time when the planet's technology links it up, when it realizes its limits to growth, when it can't go on growing in the womb, when it has to stop its population growth, when it has to handle its own waste, stop using non-renewable resources -- all the stuff of the environment is natural, if you're being born. And let's say that we have the capacity to do that, and that each member of the body is like a cell who's awakening to new functions. We can't go on reproducing up to maximum; women can't go on having five to ten children each -- that we are literally being released from the old functions -- the men can't go on fighting these wars -- that we're being released from these old functions. And if we have, let's say, a fascistic idea take hold, in some horrible neofascism, or whatever, you could have a horrible birth, and you could have Armageddon. On the other hand, if the people whose consciousness is shifting naturally, like probably most of your listeners, to, let's say, a whole-centered consciousness, a more loving consciousness, more ecologically sensitive -- if that were ever aligned on a planetary scale, in my prophetic vision there would be a planetary birth experience, in which the collective mass of people would feel themselves as one, freely and spontaneously.
MISHLOVE: Well, you seem to be saying, though, that there's a limit to the sort of rugged, individualistic, self-centered consciousness that needs to take place for the survival of the planet.
HUBBARD: I'm a great believer in the evolution of consciousness itself. There's a book by E.M. Buck called Cosmic Consciousness.
MISHLOVE: An excellent book, yes.
HUBBARD: He points out that in single-cell life you had sentient consciousness; in animal life you had animal consciousness; then in human life you have self-consciousness. He points out that maybe starting 5000 years ago in Egypt, India, Greece, Israel, you began to get a new type of consciousness called cosmic consciousness, and that subsequently more and more people, like Whitman, and Pascal, and Emerson, and Gandhi, and so forth and so on -- you and me, and probably a million other people out there, millions -- began to pop into what you might call the next phase of consciousness. But the problem is, there's no church for it, there's no school for it, there's no name for it, and sometimes you think you're crazy. But what if we're popping all over the place into an awareness that we're all linked, into an awareness that we are members of one body, into an awareness that we may be universal beings, such that if there were the right catalytic situations -- this is my intuition -- an amazing number of people would be ready to be aware of who we are?
MISHLOVE: And to take responsibility, therefore, for building a new planetary culture that can live out that higher awareness.


excerpted from a conversation by Barbara Marx Hubbard and Jeffrey Mishlove.

[martin]

Nice dreams. But if we, as humans, can have a bit more common sense and depth of feeling, I think that's all we need.
We don't need a sudden global 'awakening', an 'explosion' of consciousness and anyway, there are no signs that anything like that is going to happen, as far as I can see.

Okay, there is a 'new' spirituality in some of the richer countries but it's not very widespread and apart from that, how deep does it go really? People opt for some kind of 'positive' thinking, such as 'I create my own reality' and, well, it seems it usually remains pretty shallow. It doesn't go any deeper than the older self made man/woman idea but now it's suddenly called 'spiritual' ?! Or 'cosmic' ??! Lol.
Is there any real awakening there? Rarely. Unless .. somebody goes really deep with it. But if you go really deep everything becomes cosmic, even smoking a cigarette. Cough! (sound of the universe trying to exhale :eek:)

So, can we not dispense with all the big words, all the elephant sh*t, and ... just have a bit more common sense and depth of feeling? :)

[listener]

I don't see the thoughts/work of B Marx Hubbard as elephant sh*it,
I am sorry that you do:)

[listener]

Hmmmm, as soon as I posted that, I remembered that last night, I had a dream about you! cant remember too much about it, only that i felt very fond of you in a friendly sort of way:) also you were rather cute, thin, tall and brown hair

[martin]

Hmm, that's quite accurate, well, okay, maybe cute too. :D

[martin]

Btw, the term 'elephant sh*t', in the way I use it (I learned it from Fritz Perls), means something like 'philosophy'. If we talk about the big questions, the meaning of life, all and everything, and so on, that is 'elephant sh*t'.
It's not a negative term. :)

[listener]

thnk you for clarifying martin.

I feel inclined to say that the very reason I respect hubbard's work is that it IS in my eyes very common sense, practical if well, if I must say, visionary. ( she is in her eighties now I think) The word "cosmic" sometimes evokes that knee-jerk anti-new-age reaction, but it is only a word, albeit an over-used one. and of course, I agree, everything is cosmic. even cigarette smoke, esp when it is forming rings

I identify with hubbard because she was very interested in ( among other things) the dynamics of the workplace (which I am ) and she had ideas about how it COULD be, versus the way it is

fullinterview is here if anyone interested
http://www.intuition.org/txt/hubbard1.htm

If you can get beyond the phrases which sound new agey, I think the idea are exciting...esp at a time when human beings seem to be in a pressure cooker . at least in US, I am not so sure about the whole of the world! :o whaddo I know?

On the whole, I think there is a whole lot more to the human race than we've known thus far. cosmically speaking.
even comically speaking:)

BTW, in the dream about you that I had, I remmber thinking.."but that's Martin from online Clarity! I didnt know he was here in person.." but in the dream, I then realized that all the people from Clarity were actually there somehow, and we all knew each other, like in "real life" and I thought ..Oh yeah, they are all here.

So maybe we are all a COSMIC community and we dont even know it:rofl:

[meng]

I was inspired by Listener’s Hubbard interview post. I tripped a little on the word “cosmic”, too, but it’s just a word (as Listener has said), like “spiritual” and “wisdom” or even “God”. Big and ambiguous words. But it would be wasteful to just toss them out, I think.

I am constantly astounded at the degree to which this organism, I generally refer to as me, is largely a result of the elements and time, and that my open and free will can only really operate within the conditions which time and space dictate. I profess to being an individual, but sometimes I seem like something which just happens, and even my mind is no more than a universal function, a tooth on a gearwheel, a spring, a pin, or maybe sometimes a speaker, or a wire to the speaker.

Given the flimsiness of this individual identity, and the ambiguous influence of the “cosmos”, it isn’t at all unthinkable that a small shift in the earth's relative position, or the position of any number of other physical objects whirling through… uh.. the cosmos, that life on earth – possibly especially human consciousness – could go through a revolutionary change of some kind. We only know what little we know based on our relatively short time on this planet.

[trojan]

Given the flimsiness of this individual identity, and the ambiguous influence of the “cosmos”, it isn’t at all unthinkable that a small shift in the earth's relative position, or the position of any number of other physical objects whirling through… uh.. the cosmos, that life on earth – possibly especially human consciousness – could go through a revolutionary change of some kind. We only know what little we know based on our relatively short time on this planet.

Exactly. I've been trying to articulate the same thought with less success.

I can see absolutely no reason why human consciousness should not go through a great shift - which is not to say i think it will for sure (in our lifetimes) but we certainly have no reason to think we as a species will stay in this same form for ever.

[martin]

BTW, in the dream about you that I had, I remmber thinking.."but that's Martin from online Clarity! I didnt know he was here in person.." but in the dream, I then realized that all the people from Clarity were actually there somehow, and we all knew each other, like in "real life" and I thought ..Oh yeah, they are all here.

So maybe we are all a COSMIC community and we dont even know it:rofl:

Makes me wonder .. In recent nights (not last night as far as I remember but the nights before) I had dreams in which I met women that I don't know in daily life. Except for one, an ex-girlfriend that kicked me, grmp! :eek:

I often dream about people that I don't know in daily life but there was something unusual about these dreams, don't know what exactly, maybe they were exceptionally clear. And now that you write this .. was it Clarity?
If so, there are a few questions :cool::

- Why only women? Why no men? And especially, why no Luis? I mean, if there are women present Luis can't be far away I think? :D
- One woman had short hair, blonde or grey or a mix (not clear, in any case her hair was not dark and her skin was light, not tanned) and somewhat pronounced cheekbones, I think. We had a lovely encounter.
Listener? :)
- To my ex-gf: if you are on Clarity and prefer to hide your identity, okay, but would you please stop kicking me?

:rofl:

[martin]

I can see absolutely no reason why human consciousness should not go through a great shift - which is not to say i think it will for sure (in our lifetimes) but we certainly have no reason to think we as a species will stay in this same form for ever.

I don't know of course, but I think that if this planet, or this physical system, would suddenly jump to a higher frequency - that wouldn't be desirable because it would spoil the game for many us.
It's improbable because it would go against the purpose of many souls that are playing here.

I mean, if you are playing a computer game, let's say, and you are completely engrossed in the game then the last thing that you want to happen is that the computer crashes and the screen goes blank. Or in another analogy, if you watch a movie and identify with the main character you don't want to remember that you are in fact not that character but the witness, the one who is watching the movie. Or the director of the movie or the one who writes and rewrites the script.
In other words, 'awakening' during the game, the movie, the dream, and so on, is not necessarily desirable.

To me it seems that that is true for most souls that are on earth. They want to finish their dream/game/movie, that is their purpose. And I'm talking about their deeper purpose, the purpose of their 'real self' if you like. Their 'real self' has not planned anything 'mystical' for this life. It has planned an adventure of some kind and 'awakening', becoming aware of the 'virtualness' of it all is not planned. It shouldn't happen while the adventure develops, because it would spoil the adventure.

Of course there are exceptions. For some a 'premature' awakening (during the game/movie) IS their purpose. Their screen will sooner or later go blank in the middle of the game or in some cases even earlier. But people who become aware that that might be their purpose tend to believe that it is everybodies purpose in this game/movie/dream. So they start to shout "YOU should awaken!".
I believe that that is a mistake and that the proper response is "Mind your own business!" :)

[trojan]

But Martin as it is probably beyond our current understanding or imagination how could we predict the effects of this shift. I can't see why the screen would 'go blank' or what you mean by that :confused: or why it should mean the end of anyones game ? Is the 'game' that important to anyone any way - well its not to me - spoil the adventure ? What adventure, lol

Rather than sudden 'waking up' it may be more subtle beginning with i think (perhaps) perception shifts that enable us to understand and really perceive that we are embodied spirits and that the split between us and the so called 'dead' is nothing more than dimensional and rather than just know it intellectually it will be part of our reality - and noone will think you are weird when you say an angel spoke with you last night :D If people really knew that with their senses the surely that would inevitably give rise to a value shift - amassing alot of possession might just begin to look a little pointless for example.


I read somewhere, i may be repeating self here, think i am but still - that a some kind of frequency/vibrational shift may cause material law to fall into line with spiritual law - well maybe law is not the right word but something like that. IOW what is really valuable becomes outwardly valuable as opposed to how it is now where often what is most worthless is rewarded the most. That might mean the collapse of a few systems but you know...its pretty ugly as it is so who cares.

BTW i think these shifts if they happen are pretty organic - they're going to happen because its time not because anyone is shouting at us to wake up.

Anyhow of course I have no idea whats going to happen, I'm just playing with ideas and there isn't really any reason like i said that consciousness change shouldn't happen


As for the Clarity astral plane meetings, yes they have been going on for some time (its the beginning of the consciousness shift didn't you know :rofl: ) and its strange how easy it is to get on with people over there. A few months back I dreamed I had a very pleasant autumn walk with Chris Lofting and a mystery man - could have been Luis though he was rather quiet.

[sparhawk]

- Why only women? Why no men? And especially, why no Luis? I mean, if there are women present Luis can't be far away I think? :D
- One woman had short hair, blonde or grey or a mix (not clear, in any case her hair was not dark and her skin was light, not tanned) and somewhat pronounced cheekbones, I think. We had a lovely encounter.
Listener? :)

Martin, I'm your wingman, brother. You tell me when and we'll dream together of those ladies... (that's pretty much what we have left...) :rofl:

[sparhawk]

As for the Clarity astral plane meetings, yes they have been going on for some time (its the beginning of the consciousness shift didn't you know :rofl: ) and its strange how easy it is to get on with people over there. A few months back I dreamed I had a very pleasant autumn walk with Chris Lofting and a mystery man - could have been Luis though he was rather quiet.

Yup, that's me, the shy one... LOL :rofl:

[martin]

Rather than sudden 'waking up' it may be more subtle beginning with i think (perhaps) perception shifts that enable us to understand and really perceive that we are embodied spirits and that the split between us and the so called 'dead' is nothing more than dimensional and rather than just know it intellectually it will be part of our reality - and noone will think you are weird when you say an angel spoke with you last night :D

That would be nice! :D
Yes, I agree, subtle shifts of perception are possible. I think such shifts already happened many times, in fact. Or maybe they are happening all the time. At least, I suspect that we don't perceive reality exactly in the same way as it was perceived a few centuries or even a few decades ago.

Barbara Hubbard and others are talking about something much more drastic, though, a sudden rather violent change that could even be disastrous for many people.
The exact scenario depends on the prophet. Hubbard, if I understand her correctly, seems to believe that people who are not sufficiently evolved will be removed from the earth and transported to another reality where they can learn the necessary lessons. Something like that.
Doesn't make sense to me. Too Old Testamentic.


Btw, there is a strange quote in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Marx_Hubbard) about her:
"We come to bring death to those who are unable to know God. We do this for the sake of the world. The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you. Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff. We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are incapable of evolving... The selection process will be quick."

Pretty strong language! :eek: I wonder if this is perhaps a misquote or out of context?

[martin]

Martin, I'm your wingman, brother. You tell me when and we'll dream together of those ladies... (that's pretty much what we have left...) :rofl:

Luis! I knew that I could count on you! :rofl:

[listener]

I have blonde hair just a tad past my shoulders, maybe a few inches, so I wouldnt call it "short".....altho I do have high cheekbones and fair skin, but light brown eyes. irish, but I have been taken for swedish or german.

oh boy now this is fun, I am gonna start searching you guys out in dreamworld

[martin]

Ah, so you went to an astral barber first. :D

[sparhawk]

oh boy now this is fun, I am gonna start searching you guys out in dreamworld


Great! There is no legal liability for naughty guys in the dreamworld... (unless you are a character in a P.K.Dick novel, that is...) :rofl:

[topal]

Btw, there is a strange quote in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Marx_Hubbard) about her:
"We come to bring death to those who are unable to know God. We do this for the sake of the world. The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you. Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff. We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are incapable of evolving... The selection process will be quick."

Pretty strong language! :eek: I wonder if this is perhaps a misquote or out of context?


Nope.

Hubbard is a trans-humanist and believer in survival of the fittest. Slap on top of that a mix of eastern mysticism; theosophy (which the Nazis got all excited about) and neo-darwinism. The basic idea is that Hubbard is the chosen one - part of the Elite - and we are all doomed, unless of course you are part of the in-crowd of creation ;)

An extended version of that quote follows to give you the full picture:

"Humanity will not be able to make the transition from Earthy-only to universal life `until' the chaff has been separated from the what. The great reaper must reap before we can take the quantum-leap to the next phase of evolution.

" No worldly peace can prevail until the self-centered members of the planetary body either change, or die'. That is the choice.... `They must surely die, or change.' [Yes, die! Kill them all! ]

"It is a free choice. Evolution is good but it is not nice. Only the good can evolve. Only the God-centered will survive to inherit the power of the universal species.
Evolution empowers the horseman upon the red horse to kill that which cannot love God above all else and his neighbours as himself and himself as the son of God.

" This act is as horrible as killing a `cancel cell.' It `must' be done for the sake of the future of the whole. So be it; be prepared for the selection process which is now beginning....

" The second seal revealed a red horse ridden by one with the power to take peace from the Earth. It stands for the necessity of the selection process which shall rip apart the old order and destroy those who choose to remain self-centered, womb-centered remnants of the past... [what a contradiction! talk about double-speak!]

" There have always been `defective seeds'. In the past they were permitted to die a "natural death" their (sic) bodies were recycled to a new life and their souls reincarnated in bodies capable of receiving signals from the higher self...We, the elders, have been patiently waiting until the very last moment before the quantum transformation, to take action to cut out this corrupted and corrupting element in the body of humanity. It is like watching a cancer grow; something must be done before the whole body is destroyed....'" (168).

"Now, as we approach the quantum shift from creature-human to co-creative human ... the human who is an inheritor of godlike powers...the destructive `one fourth must be eliminated' from the social body. We have no choice, dearly beloveds. It is a case of the destruction of the whole planet, or the elimination of the ego-driven godless one-fourth who, at this time of planetary birth, can, if allowed to live on to reproduce their defective disconnection, destroy forever the opportunity of Homo sapiens to become Homo universalis, heirs of God." (169)

"We come to bring death to those who are unable to know God. We do this for the sake of the world ... The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you. Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff. This is the most painful period in the history of humanity...We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are capable of evolving. To the degree that those of you with the eyes to see and ears to hear use that capacity, the selection process will be quick." (170)

"Fortunately, you are not responsible for this act. We are. We are in charge of God's selection process for planet Earth. He selects, we destroy. We are the riders of the pale horse, Death." (171)

_______________________

This is basically a wonderful example of New Age Fascism in full Technicolor. Of course, it's Hubbard and the rest of her clan who will be dispensing their wand of death on everyone else because of course they are: "...in charge of God's selection process for plan[B]et Earth." We are all "defective seeds" after all…

Whatever happened to "the meek shall inherit the earth"?! I guess she prefers to be a Rider of the Apocalypse...

It's very popular stuff with the intelligensia. And of course, it's an ideology as old as the hills.

:eek:

Topal

[trojan]

Good grief, she sounds like she actually intends to do the killing herself. I wonder what on earth she means when she says "We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are capable of evolving" (Hang on a minute shouldn't that be 'incapable of evolving' ? ) Who does she mean by 'we' I wonder.

[martin]

This is basically a wonderful example of New Age Fascism in full Technicolor.
Topal

Yes, horrible. She is barking mad if you ask me. Well, hmm, that's a harsh thing to say. But anyway, it doesn't sound kosher.
Thank you for the info. :)

[listener]

Oh for heaven's sakes, I think you are reading her all wrong, misinterpreting her message/. Eckart Tolle says pretty much the same thing. The human race must evolve or it is going to destroy itself/ doesnt seem too far-fetched to me.

I am going to read that quote in greater depth, but bear in mind that Jesus said the same thing in colorful language. symbolic language. I guess it sounds pretty radical the way hubbard says it,

BUt Topal, you overlook the fact that the human race as engineered by the arrogant ego mind is exactly what is evidenced in all your posts about the corruption of politics and the sick drive for power and money. Don't you see that inevitably such a soul-less compulsion, on a grand scale, leads to disaster and finally, self-destruction? You wring your hands and "preach" ( nicely:)) about the need for change in mankind, the need to wake up, and Be the change that is called for, yet you dismiss someone who says pretty much the same thing except with the more imminent and not-pretty implications.

Regardless of how hubbard expresses it, the truth is that humans do need to wake up or vanish as a race along with the failed earth project

anyway, I like Bucky Fuller too.

FWIW, I had a significant dream once where a huge white (pale) horse came up and I got on him to ride. it was freedom and pure delight. BUt then I thought, "oh, no, I can't leave, I need to get back in my car". My car was a black sedan completely trapped in a long line of stopped traffic going nowhere. To me , it meant that the choice to go back and be with the darkness is always there, but so is the opportunity to be free.

[meng]

This reminds me of an inheritence settlement, when someone’s end becomes someone’s gain. But who will inherit the earth and/or God’s kingdom? Will it be the fundamental Christians, the fundamental Islamists, fundamental new agers, or the militant survivalists? It seems each believes they will be the only ones to be spared God’s judgment and inherent some super cool kingdom. And each would shake their righteously indignant finger in the face of the rest of us of sinners, saying “I told you so!”

Revelations 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Question is, which “beast” does it refer to? There’s so many organized beasts.

1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

[sergio]

Hello everybody;
Topal hit the target very accurately.These neo prophets are ideologically very dangerous.Some of them are at the core of extreme reactionary movements like Nazism,Fascists,white supremacist,you name it.They provide ideological support and intelectual justification to all their barbaric activities.And on top of that now we also have to deal with religious fundamentalists.Although I do not compare one to the other the end result is the same:death and devastation.Maybe that is what the Mayans were trying to tell us.
Sergio

[listener]

Hello everybody;
Topal hit the target very accurately.These neo prophets are ideologically very dangerous.Some of them are at the core of extreme reactionary movements like Nazism,Fascists,white supremacist,you name it.They provide ideological support and intelectual justification to all their barbaric activities.And on top of that now we also have to deal with religious fundamentalists.Although I do not compare one to the other the end result is the same:death and devastation.Maybe that is what the Mayans were trying to tell us.
Sergio

how you get fascism from abraham maslow, jonas salk and their ilk is beyond me. hubbard did not supprt barbaric activities! you think the mayans warn against visionaries like bucky fuller, maslow and salk, hubbard? what about the current political powers? this thread has become ludicrous, because of distortion.

[trojan]

Only the good can evolve. Only the God-centered will survive to inherit the power of the universal species. [/B]

" This act is as horrible as killing a `cancer cell.' It `must' be done for the sake of the future of the whole. So be it; be prepared for the selection process which is now beginning....


" There have always been `defective seeds'. In the past they were permitted to die a "natural death" their (sic) bodies were recycled to a new life and their souls reincarnated in bodies capable of receiving signals from the higher self...We, the elders, have been patiently waiting until the very last moment before the quantum transformation, to take action to cut out this corrupted and corrupting element in the body of humanity. It is like watching a cancer grow; something must be done before the whole body is destroyed....'" (168).



"We come to bring death to those who are unable to know God. We do this for the sake of the world ... The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you. Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff. This is the most painful period in the history of humanity...We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are capable of evolving. To the degree that those of you with the eyes to see and ears to hear use that capacity, the selection process will be quick." (170)

"Fortunately, you are not responsible for this act. We are. We are in charge of God's selection process for planet Earth. He selects, we destroy. We are the riders of the pale horse, Death." (171)

_______________________


Topal

Who needs distortion Listener ? Anyone who says "we are in charge of Gods selection process for planet earth" makes me shiver. Who is the 'you' and the 'we' she speaks of I wonder. You have to admit from the above she sounds like a complete lunatic and quite a nasty one at that.

Do you still see what is quoted above as just poetic license ? I've read it a few times and which ever way i look at it it sounds far more like Hitler than Jesus.

And having googled her I found there is concern over her anti semitism.

Can you tell me what you think she means when she says " We will use whatever means we must to make this act of destruction as quick and painless as possible to the one half of the world who are (in)capable of evolving". To me I can't see how that can be taken other than literally ? You say Hubbard doesn't support barbaric activities but she seems to be mounting a campaign to carry them out

I guess you weren't aware of this side of her work ? From your first quote I wouldn't have suspected she could also come up with stuff like this. But then fascist propaganda always works that way -it lures people in with ideas that sound good and reasonable only to put the poison in a little bit later when you're already half on their side so to speak. This is the second time this week I've been shocked to realise how there is a kind of growing 'new age' fundamentalism as brutal and blinkered as any other fundamentalism and those involved don't even see it coming it looks so harmless at first.

[martin]

I read a bit more about Hubbard and it seems that she channeled most of this stuff. She thought she got it from her 'Christ'. So the 'we' is probably supposed to refer to disembodied beings. Riding equally disembodied horses ... what a mess.

But I suspect that she didn't get it from any 'spirit' out there in the in here, but from one of her own split-off subconscious subpersonalities. The archaic language is typical. Nice case for Jungian analysis.

[topal]

Oh for heaven's sakes, I think you are reading her all wrong, misinterpreting her message/. Eckart Tolle says pretty much the same thing. The human race must evolve or it is going to destroy itself/ doesnt seem too far-fetched to me.

I have a lot of time for Buck. Fuller, and Tolle's common sense advice. Indeed, a host of others - including folks here. Many wonderful people can still act as an inspiration to all kinds of loonies. And some loonies have an enormous following.

Personally, Listener, I think you have a big heart and are a thoroughly kind and decent soul from what I can see. But imo, this issue is causing some cognitive dissonance i.e. you're not seeing this issue objectively due to the considerable amount of energy you have invested in it. And these people rely on that and they have certain techniques to induce it.

It is not a question of whether humanity will destroy itself if it goes on in the same way. No one is going to argue with that. It is a question of those setting themselves up as judge and jury as to who IS and who is NOT evolved. Yes, look again very carefully at that passage and you will see she is not just saying that "gee, humanity's gonna destroy itself if it goes on like it is" Well, gosh, we all know that right? She is saying that she is going to have a hand in speeding such a destruction of those not as evolved as her and others in her stable for she believes, the sake of everyone. That is fascism plain and simple.

I am going to read that quote in greater depth, but bear in mind that Jesus said the same thing in colorful language. symbolic language. I guess it sounds pretty radical the way hubbard says it,

For one thing, Jesus and the words attributed to him are very often corrupted and over two thousand years old and translated through several versions from the original aramaic. Which means they were often twisted out of all recognition by Greek orthodox clerics and later various other vested interests. Hubbard however, and others like her are voicing their beliefs in the 21st century with no corruption of authorship or symbolic terms other than biblical references to Revelation. This is not radical - it is a very familiar ideology. It not difficult to recognise the patterns, unless that is, one is choosing to ignore it.

But Topal, you overlook the fact that the human race as engineered by the arrogant ego mind is exactly what is evidenced in all your posts about the corruption of politics and the sick drive for power and money. Don't you see that inevitably such a soul-less compulsion, on a grand scale, leads to disaster and finally, self-destruction? You wring your hands and "preach" ( nicely:)) about the need for change in mankind, the need to wake up, and Be the change that is called for, yet you dismiss someone who says pretty much the same thing except with the more imminent and not-pretty implications.

Well, geeze I hope I'm not preaching or wringing my hands although it's always possible. I do however, try not to overlook anything in this area precisely because it can be so subtle. (though this example is actually quite blatent) As I said above, of course, there are those bent on greed and power. Or course their are those following that path. And yes, humanity is going to go through some form of self-destruction. That may be the case. And yes, sharing information and discussing these things is vital. But you seem to be oblivious of the idea of FREE WILL.

Hubbard is in NO WAY saying the same thing I am saying or have said. I am not setting myself up as one who knows the plan for Creation. I wouldn't dream of setting myself up to be judge and jury of who is evolved and who isn't. I am not considering any means necessary to "speed up" evolution by dispensing with 1/4 of humanity! This is classic fascism. Why are you excusing it?

I suggest you read up on the history of Eugenics and the present resurgence in depopulation advocates and their link to trans-humanists. There are some very interesting parallels. Both of these fields Hubbard is very excited about.

Like in The Wizard of Oz - you gotta look behind the Curtain where the Grand Wizard is twiddling all the levers to create all kinds of effects...The devil is in the details!

Regardless of how hubbard expresses it, the truth is that humans do need to wake up or vanish as a race along with the failed earth project

So, it matters little how one expresses truth? So in fact, truth matters little to you?
Don't you see how truth can be distorted by such a lack of attention?

This kind of exclusive belief does not allow the full expression of each of our paths no matter who we are. Each of us will wake up when we are ready. We can offer information and we can share knowledge to those who are asking and have reached the point where they are ready, but the Cosmos/Creation cannot be made to fit inside such simplistic models such as a preordained survival of a self-elected Elite!

I would suggest you REALLY read that passage again with a different set of eyes and contemplate the idea that there are many within a multitude of New Age / spiritual groups who are consciously or unconsciously NOT doing "God's Will."

Topal

[trojan]

I read a bit more about Hubbard and it seems that she channeled most of this stuff. She thought she got it from her 'Christ'. So the 'we' is probably supposed to refer to disembodied beings. Riding equally disembodied horses ... what a mess.

.

Thanks that cleared it up - it did sound bizzare. I was wondering how she was going to dispense with half of the world who didn't meet her standards - but i see its up to the disembodied horses and their riders....

[listener]

well, I am not that educated in fascism, I must admit. And I really do not agree with any philosophy that doesn't have compassion at it's core.

sometimes these people who initially have some sound visionary leanings start to "channel" and then god help us as to what comes through. I had not read a great deal of Hubbard, but had several of her writings from a time when I suppose she wasnt as radical.

any way, I was afraid to sign on to Clarity tonight because I thought I was gonna be tarred and feathered. So before I did, I asked the Ol Yi "what can I expect on the forum? " and it told me 61.2. I knew it didnt mean "agreement", just that you guys were kind enough to give me the benefit of the doubt ( for not being a fascist) , so thank you.

[topal]

well, I am not that educated in fascism, I must admit. And I really do not agree with any philosophy that doesn't have compassion at it's core.

sometimes these people who initially have some sound visionary leanings start to "channel" and then god help us as to what comes through. I had not read a great deal of Hubbard, but had several of her writings from a time when I suppose she wasnt as radical.

any way, I was afraid to sign on to Clarity tonight because I thought I was gonna be tarred and feathered. So before I did, I asked the Ol Yi "what can I expect on the forum? " and it told me 61.2. I knew it didnt mean "agreement", just that you guys were kind enough to give me the benefit of the doubt ( for not being a fascist) , so thank you.


I never for one moment thought you were a fascist Listener! And I don't think anyone wanted to tar or feather you. It's just exploring an issue that can be very tricky indeed.

:hug:

Topal

[trojan]

I never for one moment thought you were a fascist Listener! And I don't think anyone wanted to tar or feather you. It's just exploring an issue that can be very tricky indeed.

:hug:

Topal

Agreed. I for one am finding new age beliefs/ideas/philosophy a real mine field at the moment and am spending a fair bit of time trying to figure out the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

[martin]

any way, I was afraid to sign on to Clarity tonight because I thought I was gonna be tarred and feathered.

No way, your feathers are fine as they are! :hug:

[sparhawk]

Group hug?? :hug: Martin, no groping the ladies! :D

[sergio]

Brothers & Sisters:
Let's stop this thread.This is going nowhere and we are only polarizing our positions more and more.Let's concentrate in what is really important to us:the Yi and everything else connected to it.I'm pretty sure there are more interesting things to discuss.This is it.
Sergio

[martin]

Group hug?? :hug: Martin, no groping the ladies! :D

Hey, come on, you can't have them all for yourself! :rofl:

[martin]

Brothers & Sisters:
Let's stop this thread.This is going nowhere and we are only polarizing our positions more and more.Let's concentrate in what is really important to us:the Yi and everything else connected to it.I'm pretty sure there are more interesting things to discuss.This is it. Sergio

Well, this is Open Space, "An almost completely unmoderated area for everything 'off-topic'".
It might be more interesting to talk about the riders of the pink elephant though instead of this pale stuff. :D

[sergio]

Martin;
that's a wonderful tittle for a Pink Floyd song:The Riders of the Pink Elephants.
Sergio

[topal]

Brothers & Sisters:
Let's stop this thread.This is going nowhere and we are only polarizing our positions more and more.Let's concentrate in what is really important to us:the Yi and everything else connected to it.I'm pretty sure there are more interesting things to discuss.This is it.

Huh? :confused:

As Martin says, this is "open space." These issues are also fundamentally related to the Yi which is about self-knowledge after all.

Contrary to it "not going anywhere" I thought this was a good example of networking where folks can share thoughts and opinions about certain issues.

Relax...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/sizkar/elephant5.gif

Topal

[lightangel]

As for the Clarity astral plane meetings, yes they have been going on for some time (its the beginning of the consciousness shift didn't you know :rofl: ) and its strange how easy it is to get on with people over there. A few months back I dreamed I had a very pleasant autumn walk with Chris Lofting and a mystery man - could have been Luis though he was rather quiet.

I once saw Trojan in a dream, a long time ago, when she was "Void" and she had asian features but I imagine that was the i ching element in my dream :rolleyes:.

I also once dreamed of Val and she had a French Horn in her house. It was understandable as we were mailing a bit at that time and I mentioned it to her but she didn't confirm or deny her relationship with a French Horn. :o

Errr... this is the thread about Clarity Members dreams, right??? :bag:

[sergio]

As Martin and Topal) said this is open space indeed.I was just suggesting a diferent course of action,I would not be so arrogant to order an end to discussion.I still stand by my opinion mainly because when I started the thread it was firstly an interesting piece of news unrelated to the Yi(yes,totally unrelated) to discuss and secondly an opportunitty to see what others have to say about the Mayan calendar,their skill at prophesizing,the value of them to our modern society,the applicability of their astronomy and cosmology to our world today in lieu of our different approaches to measuring time and record astronomical events but we seldom talk about any of that.In that respect it got way out of course but It certainly is beyond my control or ,even better, I was not expecting to control the forum or any body's opinion, to what they are rightfully entittled,or dictate a course to the discussion.I certainly accept and respect everybody's opinion and their right to express it without restraint so please forgive my unvoluntary arrogance.
Sergio

[martin]

Errr... this is the thread about Clarity Members dreams, right??? :bag:

Nope. It's about pink elephants! :rofl:

[lightangel]

Well, I also dream of pink elephants from time to time, so it's all connected:D

[topal]

As Martin and Topal) said this is open space indeed.I was just suggesting a diferent course of action,I would not be so arrogant to order an end to discussion.I still stand by my opinion mainly because when I started the thread it was firstly an interesting piece of news unrelated to the Yi(yes,totally unrelated) to discuss and secondly an opportunitty to see what others have to say about the Mayan calendar,their skill at prophesizing,the value of them to our modern society,the applicability of their astronomy and cosmology to our world today in lieu of our different approaches to measuring time and record astronomical events but we seldom talk about any of that.In that respect it got way out of course but It certainly is beyond my control or ,even better, I was not expecting to control the forum or any body's opinion, to what they are rightfully entittled,or dictate a course to the discussion.I certainly accept and respect everybody's opinion and their right to express it without restraint so please forgive my unvoluntary arrogance.
Sergio

You are a gentleman Sergio :bows:

And yes, you are quite right - in terms of the original thread title it certainly was a bit off course.

Topal

[listener]

thank you guys:hug:

[martin]

Some people go very far with this 2012 thing. Yesterday I found a site (http://www.howtosurvive2012.com/htm/home.htm) of a man (Patrick Geryl) who believes that 'solar storms will torment the earth'. He bought land in the mountains of Southern Africa and hopes that he can survive there.
You can join him if you like, there is room for about 5000 people, if I understand him correctly. :)

I must say that I like his site, although I don't share his beliefs. Patrick is thorough and obviously not dumb, like so many others who parrot others that parrot others that ...
But it reminds me of Leon Festinger's 'When prophesy fails', about a sect in the fifties that retreated to a mountain because they expected a flood. The flood didn't come though.
How will Patrick deal with his 'cognitive dissonance' when his prophesy also fails?

But now I hear Patrick saying 'How will you deal with yours, when your prophesy of nothing-will-happen fails?'
Hmm, good question ... (I said he isn't dumb)

After reading Patrick's site I decided to ask the Yi, 'what do you think will happen in december 2012?'
And the Yi said hexagram 49, no changing lines.
I must admit that that answer surprised this nonbeliever a bit. Of course it doesn't mean that anything bad will happen like the things that Patrick has in mind (huge tsunamis etcetera) but still, something that is not believed until it happens?!
Hmm.
I will bookmark a few astronomy sites and keep an eye on them sunspots and sunflares the coming years. :cool:
You never know ...

[listener]

Interesting site. Hmmmm, for about 8000 US dollars, one can buy one of his Hobbit houses. for someone with the time and extra cash, it could be worth the trip to go look and buy. and it looks like NYC will be one of the worst places to be. eeek.
not saying yay or nay to these ideas, I just speculate as to exactly how beneficial it would be to survive such a cataclysmic turn of events...? It seems as though one ought to be young and hearty and up for the challenge. And if Geryl is really thinking ahead, it would also seem he might want to base his admttance criteria on those who would be survival-worthy, don't you think? not to be fascist or anythng:blush:, but imagine a bunch of rich , privileged americans trying to survive in his community!? It would be like the rich man and his wife - or Ginger- on Gilligan's island. I wonder if, over time, one would have to apply ( and possibly be rejected) to be part of his community and if he would base it on more than just having enough money?
It sounds like the people who would be interested at this point, though, are probably intellignt and ecologically aware, etc, and certainly wealthy enough to play with the idea. vey interesting.

[martin]

It looks like the project is open to everybody at the moment. I don't know how Patrick is going to deal with it if too many people get interested (and that might happen if the sun indeed starts to behave odd :eek:).

But now that I read more I'm beginning to see that he IS in fact already planning for a 'failed prophesy' too.
About the farmland that they want to buy:

'Once improved, we expect that some will want to live permanently on the land, others to regard the farm as a great holiday or retirement place, and some as a place of refuge for troubled times. Others may consider our plan as simply a great investment.'

Aha, and elsewhere:

'Should you wish to sell your share at any stage, this is possible, however for budgeting purposes, we will allow the sale of said share at purchase price less a 10% administrative cost if sold before 2014, thereafter[!!], the share can be sold at a market related price, subject to the terms contained in the ‘Shareholders Agreement” document.'

This guy is really smart. If nothing serious happens in 2012, so what? Then he will have built a nice community in those mountains, with a farm, hobbit houses and so on! :D

[martin]

On second thought, perhaps he is not really planning for a failed prophesy and only hopes to attract people that doubt if anything serious will happen (if not it's still a good investment, etcetera).
Anyway, if the prophesy does fail is will not be a too big disaster for him and his companions. :)

[rosada]

The bachflower essence Clemetis is for having and remembering significant dreams.

[gene]

Hello everyone

I don't have time to read all the articles here. And these are good ones. In fact, I am very impressed, even with the "somewhat" criticisms of me. It gives me new hope for the future of this community. The last one I read was the one where it said, "I guess we shoo'ed Gene off. Well, not exactly. In fact, I like the criticisms of me, it shows a good understanding of what I am really trying to say and do. I really expected much worse, ha, ha. But I did need to take a break, and I have been very busy, working six days a week lately, and a lot of overtime, and a need to just get out and do a few things in my spare moments.

Somebody asked me what my take on 2012 is and I am in the process of writing about that on my blog genesiching@blogspot.com. Not much there yet, but the gist of it is that "the end times aren't really the end times." And yet they are, because everything that happens without, first happens within, and you can't have a global conspiracy without, in external governments, unless you first have a conspiracy within, against yourself. And furthermore, you cannot have a global endtimes, unless you first have a personal endtimes. And all the scriptures, all the sacred texts, that speak of an endtime, are really a symbology, an allegory, if you will, of something that happens within an individual as the "christchild,"the Buddha, is developed within the individual. The term apocalypse carries nowdays the concept of death, destruction, and mayhem, when originally it meant an unveiling, or a revealing. Hence, the last book of the Bible, the "REVELATION" of Jesus Christ, the revealing of the Christchild, within our hearts. But in order to get there, there must be a "destruction" of the old ways.

We are living an illusion, we are living a lie. Some of you may remember, before I left before, I said "you people are living a lie, you are living an illusion, and you will not let anyone reveal it to you." And some of you responded, "We will live that lie." And that is exactly what you are doing. You refuse to wake up to the truth of what is going on on planet earth. If you refuse to listen, if you refuse the truth, you can ONLY go through an "apocalypse" of sorts, to tear away, (hexagram 23) the illusion so that you are capable of seeing the christchild, the Buddha, within. The more you resist, the more you struggle, the more you insist on having it the old way, the more you allow change to be "Forced on you."

That's it in a nutshell, more will be said on this later. And some of you will at least consider my arguments, others will insist on believing the fruitcakes are taking over the world. So be it. We, as Brad says, will all see in 2013.

Love and peace
Gene

[topal]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/sizkar/funny_animal_pics_5.jpg

[trojan]

Does that dog have something to say about 2012 ? :D Is that a dog that "refuses to listen to the truth " ?
Or is it - I get it, a dog that refuses to 'wake up' like the rest of us ? He will be the first to be cut away in the apocalypse - but i don't think he gives a ****

[listener]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/sizkar/funny_animal_pics_5.jpg

let sleeping dogs lie:)

[trojan]

:rofl: how clever ! I didn't even get it, was puzzling over Topals cryptic picture message.

Wonder where that saying came from ? Why better to let a dog sleep than say a cat or anything...dogs aren't that bad awake

[gene]

I like that dog. That dog is my kind of dog.

Gene

[topal]

I like that dog. That dog is my kind of dog.



Maybe you're from the same gene-pool! Hahahah

Just kidding. :D

Actually, one reason why my doggy friend was getting some shut-eye is that his owner might've whispered in his ear that there wasn't much point in worrying if this is what is in store (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s2q5KkO10E)
:eek:

VERY interesting article here (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148819-Tunguska-the-Horns-of-the-Moon-and-Evolution)

Just carry on living this day as if it's our last.

'cause it might be! :D

Topal

[listener]

Wonder where that saying came from ? Why better to let a dog sleep than say a cat or anything...dogs aren't that bad awake

I'm guessing you dont have a dog, trojan! they are like kids and they like to play and eat and be let out or walked .......or in my case, they demand carrot sticks in exchange for quiet time on the computer, are always dropping the red plastic bone at my feet to play go-fetch, want to be scratched on the ears, need baths.........let them sleep. cats are so blessedly independent.

[gene]

For an excellent discussion of the 2012 scenario, listen to William Henry on coasttocoastam.com a night or two ago. It is great. His site is williamhenry.net

Gene

[trojan]

I'm guessing you dont have a dog, trojan! they are like kids and they like to play and eat and be let out or walked .......or in my case, they demand carrot sticks in exchange for quiet time on the computer, are always dropping the red plastic bone at my feet to play go-fetch, want to be scratched on the ears, need baths.........let them sleep. cats are so blessedly independent.

I had a dog for many years but she died some time back. I guess I remember the good bits of her being awake :D - in my dreams shes always awake and jumping up enthusiastically to see me.

[listener]

awwwwww. I really am a dog lover, dont get me wrong. and I hope your dreams are evidence that doggie heaven exists. I hope when I die, my ol pal, Jessie, the irish setter, comes to run Home with me. at least that'll be something to look forward to in 2013:)

[hollis]

yeha i'm hoping my gray cat comes along with me into the next whatever. but he's a cat, and they will do as they like. sss. always in control, that's a cat.

[gene]

Maybe you're from the same gene-pool! Hahahah

Just kidding. :D

Actually, one reason why my doggy friend was getting some shut-eye is that his owner might've whispered in his ear that there wasn't much point in worrying if this is what is in store (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s2q5KkO10E)
:eek:

VERY interesting article here (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148819-Tunguska-the-Horns-of-the-Moon-and-Evolution)

Just carry on living this day as if it's our last.

'cause it might be! :D

Topal


This really is a possibility. It happened to Jupiter a few years ago. However....

Might I add here that those who complain that those who speak of 2012 scenarios are installintg fear. If I saw someone behind you with a knife would you say I am trying to create fear? No. I don't think so. And think about this for a while, if I tell you about a possible future scenario that may not be pleasant, and I creating fear? Or am I revealing the fear you already have? Either you have fear or you don't. If you fear the future, you will create that fearful future, at least to a certain extent The key here, and I am not responding to you particularly Topal, just