Finding the reason

[zeldiac]

I am unfortunately a crime victim. The police identified I have a stalker but not his reasons for stalking me. He currently remains at large but under police investigation. He continues to harass me. The police believes the stalker is working on behalf of somebody else. But they don't yet know who or why. In other words, I have 2 stalkers. This double crime has stunned me, and I've no idea why it's happening to me. Nor has the police got any idea - yet.

I enquired of the oracle as to the reason I am being stalked.

26 with changing lines 1&3, with relating 4 came up.

I'm having difficulty getting my head around both changing lines. Any ideas from any of you experienced people would be most gratefully considered.

[kevin]

Dear Zeldiac

How horrible and scary this must be.

I work in psychiatry? One of the first things one learns is that people's motivations are not what one might consider as normal, or rationally purposeful.

In other words this, most probably, is not to do with who you are. There are many people wandering our streets who have different mental states? but for chance they can fix on someone, encompass them in a delusional system and then behave as if there was some great purpose to their actions? when there is none.

Do not let this disempower you. Do not accept this as the result of the who you are. It most likely is the result of their pathology alone. In my profession I have been subject to this and more many times.

So to your reading?

Another post follows...

--Warmly

--Kevin

[kevin]

Continued?

Your reading is both poignant and very sensible indeed.

It does not answer your question at all.

It answers the key issue of how to move through this time well ? or how to be effective here. The Yi is prone to these sorts of non sequeters I am afraid.

However the response is not at all obvious unless one turns it until, like a crystal, it catches the light, just so.

Relating Hexagram: 4, Enveloping? You feel very vulnerable? like a child in a world you do not comprehend and over which you feel have little control.

Primary Hexagram?Great being? OK, it is the last thing you feel right now. It is an instruction. Be strong, be empowered? this is the way to deal with this time.

Nuclear Hexagram: The energy driving this situation. 54 Marrying Maiden? You are like a maiden going to an arranged marriage? you feel you have little control over the situation? however it also carries the promise that the time will turn and things will come out to put you in a strong and advantageous position.

Inner Change Operator: 36 Brightness hiding? You feel threatened and in danger? keep yourself together and focussed here? Don?t rage within yourself emotionally, nor drive yourself crazy with questions? be tight and small? focussed and still.

Outer Change Operator: 56 Sung / Arguing. Actively contend against this. You involved the Police. Good. Now keep on the phone to them and keep driving them by questions of what they have achieved. I would suggest, also, that you ask them to review your safety and the risks involved and ask them to give you , in writing, what measures they have put in place. ?Safety? and ?risk? are two key words in their model, use them, and do get it in writing!. I work with the police a lot? having it in writing pushes your case to a very high level and ensures maximum response? Believe me.

So to those changing lines:

They make most sense when viewed as voices talking of the change at the different levels of events. Eg forget Steps of Change etc? Does not work here.

Line 1 ? New events pushing into your time/life. ?Hungry Souls and Angry Ghosts? end this Situation?. These are the people involved. They are hungry souls and angry ghosts? eg They are not responding to the ?who you are? they are merely predators. End the situation? take the action advised above. Do not be inactive.

Line 3 ? This is about the the things you bring into play. The place where you bring about change. ?Great Accumulates. Fine Horses in pursuit? Hardship is advantageous. Advantageous to have a direction in which to go.?

This indicates that you must use your allies... the fine horses, the Police and any others to hand? perhaps friends who can accompany you?. The hardship of setting all of this in place is ?advantageous.? Having a direction I which to go means? ?Do it!?

Embedded in all of this is the message that you will come out of this stronger and clearer. As someone more able to bring about action against those who would harm you. Is that a lesson you need to learn in life?

I do hope this helps and I will answer any questions you have about what I have said.

Warmly

To one who will learn greater strength from adversity.

Be safe.

--Kevin

[zeldiac]

Dear Kevin

You've given me much to think about in your response. As well as a clearer picture of my situation. I can confirm that I am already wisely using my allies. It is inappropriate here to specify exactly the nature of my allies - suffice it to say I'm moving in very high circles on this one. Because my safety has been seriously jeopardised and placed at risk. Not only by the nature of the crime, but also by the disinterest (originally) of the police.

Being a stalking victim has been devastating for me, and my friends and family. I live in fear every day, but yet I am strong enough to live my life as enjoyably as possible. I have taken much comfort from your interpretation of Line 1. Predators and angry ghosts makes plenty of sense to me. Some vile stalking tactics have affected me, and my reputation could have been maligned more seriously than it has already been by the stalker. I say (with modesty) that I am a well liked person, with long standing friendships and a happy disposition. I cannot easily contemplate having serious enemies, although life has thrown up some particularly nasty surprises in recent years.

Again, I thank you most sincerely for your kind interpretation and help with my reading. I am very much a novice on this subject, and am trying to learn gradually rather than running at the subject head first.

Best regards
Zelda

[kevin]

Dear Zelda

Your welcome.

I missed something from the reading.

Inner change opperator. 'Hide you light' eg - Don't expose yourself to them. This is additional to what I said above.

I guess you knew that... but it completes the picture that the yi gave you.

Getting to know the Yi takes a little time. You are wise to go slowly.

I can only begin to imagine how ugly and scary this must be. So glad you have friends family and allies.

All the best.

--Kevin

[stuart]

Line 1 of 26 looks like a warning to be careful to avoid harm.Line 3 caution must be exercised at all times as the threat is somewhat diminshed, but is still there in the background.Ever thought about self defence classes.Teach you the basics to give you some confidence.Or can you enlist the help of a friend.Have you a vehicle-can you use taxis-sometimes cars are refered to as horses.Are the police puting a watch on your property.I think if you are cautious you will be safe;but perhaps you will now allways be watchful even when the trouble diminishes -line 3 .

[rosada]

You might want to consider if your headboard faces in a poitive direction for you feng shui wise.

[waveringdragon]

Each line and hexagram has different meanings which are applicable within the context of each other. Hexagram 4, immaturity/inexperience, very often says to us that we are taking the wrong approach, going too far, asking the wrong question or asking too many questions.
26 speaks to us of restraint but also of holding, holding together, with something or someone.
26.1 speaks of making too vigorous an advance of attempting too much. 26.1 alone leads us to 18.
18 speaks of something that has been neglected. It also speaks of care, in taking our time and giving careful consideration to our course of action.
26.3 speaks of holding with someone. I would venture to suggest that this someone is our inner sage, our wise self who is careful and conscientious. 26.3 also speaks of being on guard, I likewise would think in terms of our lesser self who is inclined to be careless and over aggressive. Our lesser self is inclined to jump to conclusions, to attempt too much. 26.3 alone would lead us to 41.
41, decrease, speaks to us of simplicity and sincerity.
Overall what I see the yi as saying to us in this reading is that we need to take a new approach to the situation or if we are to follow this particular approach to the situation then we need to do it in a simpler fashion. The question you asked was a big question, maybe there are simpler questions, maybe by taking a step by step approach to the situation you will learn more and understand better. Likewise in accord with the sincerity implied in 41 and the wise self evoked in 26.3 it is important that we understand each respose before we progress to the next question.
I have had stalkers myself. No words can describe how upsetting and disturbing it feels. What I found was that it did'nt help me any to understand the motivations of these people. What did help was an understanding of what I was doing to provoke such a reaction in others. You may feel that you will have to make sacrifices. With hindsight all the things I had to give up were hindrances to my inner development. The stalkers were actually a blessing in disguise.

[zeldiac]

Dear Kevin, Rosada, Stuart and Waveringdragon

Thank you all for your valuable comments and input. Your combined opinions are very helpful to me. Feng Shui: yes my headboard is in the best position: Self Defence: yes, I practice Tai Chi which as you probably know teaches some defence tactics: Watchful: you bet I am. But being watchful has not helped me or the police to nail the guy(s) that have been watching me... yet.

Your joint input has thrown up some other valid points for me to also consider. Especially referring to horses / cars, reactions possibly provoked in another person(s), and having to make sacrifices. All of those things mean something to me in the context of the crime affecting me. One nasty sacrifice that affected me was the stalker(s) managing to infiltrate my finances in a small way. But small or not, it had a big affect on my life because the financial implications involved a large organisation as well as me. I then had to diversify to get an important ally to help me sort out the mess. The mess that I had not made in the first place... This has been the nature of the crime. Lots of inconvenience, unexpected happenings and cruel tactics.

My sincere thanks to everyone who has or who might reply to my original posting. You are giving me lots of confidence to press on with getting a full resolution. My goals are to keep safe, to get my allies to help me uncover the motive of my stalker(s), to get him or them to stop harassing me, and to take legal redress where appropriate. I simply want to get my 'normal' life back :-)

Zelda

[waveringdragon]

People react to us, behave towards us, according to the way that we are. The yi informs us of this time and again. From experience, over time, I have found it to be very true. It's not exactly an eternal law but it is close to one.

Whenever we receive a negative or extreme reaction from others it is always worthwhile examining our own behaviour and the inner attitudes that drive that behaviour. Again something the yi suggests repetitively.

Long term we will always end up in a better place by correcting our own defects that are the root cause of these reactions from others than we will by attempting to gain insight into the inner motivations of others. To a certain extent that last statement is axiomatic. By correcting ourselves we better ourselves thus evoking both a better response from others and a better enviroment about ourselves. By attempting to gain non consensual insight into others we at best delude or confuse ourselves, at worst we feed our inner insecurities.

There is a reason for this.

The yi is created in such a way so as to confuse and prevent such non consensual invasiveness into the inner motions of others.

How?

The yi is created in such a way that it cannot be properly understood from within the viewpoint of ego/self interest. In this way it never, in even the smallest possible way, empowers evil which is rooted in ego/self interest.
Again these are things the yi points out to us on a number of occassions.

[void]

No one truly knows why anything happens, only God knows (if you believe in God) For you to sit there and inform Zelda that she is infact responsible for being stalked gets my goat to say the least. Lets see now who else can you advise to change their attitude ? Abused children, rape victims ?? All down to how they reacted to their assailant huh !! C'mon your point holds sometimes in some circumstances, in maybe most normal everyday circumstances - othertimes as they say '****' happens' and no amount of self righteous sermonising will change that.

It seems just crazy to me that someone posts regarding a stalker and someone thinks fit to tell them to 'correct' their attitude. Reading too much Carol Anthony I'd say.

[bruce]

Hi Zeldiac,

I've withheld weighing in on this until now.

Have to agree with Void here, Wavering. Seems like a peculiar position to take toward someone being stalked or threatened by an outside force.

I see the reading a bit differently than what's been voiced here thus far. I see the answer as applicable directly to the question asked: What is the reason that I am being stalked? This is one where Wilhelm speaks directly to the question. "A man wishes to make vigorous advance, but circumstances present an obstacle. He sees himself held back firmly. If he should attempt to force an advance, it would lead him into misfortune." So then, the reason is that this stalker wants to know you, but his circumstances holds him back. So rather than approach you in the open, he feels he can only approach in secret, or through someone else - typical stalker profile. This leads to misfortune. Line 3 is sage advise for the one being stalked - defend yourself with whatever means possible. The best defense is awareness of your surroundings and circumstances. Not to say live in paranoia, but to be well prepared, armed, as it were. No question to me what being armed means, but how is a matter of personal choice. That seems pretty simple and directly related to the question.

As for 4, again relating directly to the question, (he stalks you because) the stalker is a fool. Plain and simple. Relating then to you, the victim, 4 is not knowing, which until he is identified and caught, you won't.

This is one big bull that needs a good taming. I hope for your sake he is apprehended soon, and punished appropriately.

[void]

Yes I think Bruce is on the right track in assuming the Yi has answered the question Zelda asked.

Line 3 clearly echos what the police have said that one person is working on behalf of another, maybe one egging the other on. From Zeldas perspective line one may be seen as favourable in that it seems pretty unfavourable for the stalkers - who of course must be fools (4)and invite danger if they continue, ie prosecution. I hope these people are soon stopped as it must be a horrible situation to be in.

[rosada]

Thought the advice Angelika Hoefler offers in "I Ching - New Systems, Meathods and Revelations" was applicable:

Hexagram 26:
You observe and analyse calmly, keep secrets to yourself and walk a straight path. But precisely this is what makes the people around you nervous and lets them react suspiciously towards you...
You have the knowledge and the means of realizing a project that will be beneficial to the community. However, things are not moving ahead at the time because third parties are trying to see their personal interests realized. You will recognize these people and their intentions, however and react sovereignly...
You hold all of the reins in your hands when you appear calm and serene. People expect you to explode and are in no way prepared for a totallly opposite reaction.
---

Thoughts on Wavering's suggestion that the I Ching is giving insight into how Zelda may change her own perspective...Actually, this is not such a bad idea. To say that Zelda needs to "correct' her attitude, to imply that she is somehow at fault for having a stalker, is of course not helpful, but perhaps the IC is telling her how she can look at the situation differently and from this new viewpoint find the peace of mind she's wanting. If that is the case, then I would say the IChing is reassuring her that while the situation is dangerous, the police know how to handle these things and if she follows their guidance she will be safe. Hexagram 4 could be saying that perhaps she has been nieve in the past - thinking if she were a decent human being the world would be decent back - and now these harsh experiences are causing her to feel she is hurt and a victim. As she learns more about The Stalking Game, perhaps she will come to be able torecognize how it is played and be able to cooly cope without being knocked off center.

The good news is that 26 - 4 does seem to reasure that this is an unusual "Learning Experience", and not something leading to The Abysmal or Darkening of the Light.

[micheline]

Void, I think if you look at Dragon's words in another perspective, it might not be so offensive.

TO my way of thinking, to say that one is responsible for what happens in one's life (everything) is not to imply that there is something "bad" or evil about the person, just that they are harboring a mind-set, belief, or inner attiude which is not yet whole.

FOr instance, a person who may be repeatedly rejected in love COULD reasonably assume that they are responsible for that..... NOT because they are bad or unlovable, but because they secretly harbor the idea that they are not lovable or worthy of being loved.(feeling unworthy of being loved can also make you act obnoxiously, but that isnt the point here!) Correct the inner belief and Life tends to follow suit...although it is not always an easy job.

Many times I have tried to get the yi to say someything about people whom i consider fools, or evil, or those to be avoided and unfailingly the Yi will never ever validate my claims about others! It is amazing and a friend recently said the same thing to me! One time I asked about a particularly horrid individual i had encountered and the yi said she was 14.6!! I was so furious!

but now I realize that any time we encounter bumps and obstacles OUT there, in the form of other people, it is an opportunity for us to grow, overcome,and transform our own inner workings. in that way those "bad guys" can be a 14.6 indeed

NOne of this to minimize the fear and difficulty of being stalked!! my deepest sympathy and good wishes to Zelda.

[rosada]

It used to be that when I was walking downtown I would inevitably be the one panhandlers spoke to. When I took airplane trips I was always pulled aside for a more through search. I asked a policeman friend of mine what I was doing that that caused beggers to think I was rich and flight attendants to think I might be a terrorist risk. He laughed and said it was quite the contrary, my whole demeaner is such that I'm spotted as an easy mark, one who would most likely fall for a panhandler's pitch or who wouldn't give an airline attendant any trouble and thus help them meet their pat down quota. He advised me to appearless friendly, to be more aware of looking purposeful when out in public, or as 26.3 says, "to have a goal to which to strive." Thus while the IC maybe giving clues how to take more responcibility for the results, the necessary adjustment may not be to be nicer, but on the opposite, to more focused on self and thus be less vulnerable.

Thinking more about 26 - 4 being strickly an answer to the question, "What is the reason I am being stalked?' 26 talks about acquainting oneself "with many sayings of antiquity." This suggests to me that this stalker probably fits the standard profile of a stalker, that is, that the reason Zelda has been chosen for his victim probably has a lot less to do with Zelda personally and more that she fits a certain sterio type. Perhaps 4 means that he has done this sort of thing before and may even have a record.

Some schools of feng shui suggest you put a statue of a guardian inside your house by the frount door. Like Fu dogs. Can't hurt.

I am visualizing you surrounded with love and light, Zelda.

[bruce]

Most every self defense school agrees with what you've said, Rosada, including firearms defense schools. The latter typically teaches three color codes, yellow, orange and red, each reflecting a condition of awareness. White isn't even mentioned because it is a state of complete oblivion to your environment. The way you walk back to your car in a dimly lit parking lot, for example, tells a perp everything he needs to know about whether you're an easy mark or not. Predictors almost always seek the weak and defenseless, the way a lion stalks the wounded gazelle. It's a law of predatory nature. Looking like a sucker for a handout or a more violent encounter is like painting a bull's eye on your back. Self defense begins with awareness, and the ability to think clearly under stress.

I think that's a pretty good image of line 3.

[waveringdragon]

The yi always confuses, misguides or redirects those who use the yi to attempt the non consensual penetration of the psyche of another.

[kevin]

Wavering D

Does it really?

Not my experience at all...

My experience, of thirty years, is that if the querrant has a need to know they are told.

As for the Yi confusing and misguiding:
Respectfully - I have never heard anyone with substancial experience who would hold with such a perspective.
--K

[kevin]

Wav. Dragon

Oh, BTW:

I am not jumping on to a bandwagon here.

I saw some of your truth in your earlier post... food for thought for me.

Dangerous ground though... Every victim will consider that they are the cause of their harm... Problem is that it invites the victim to consider themselves as the perpetrator to their own misery when they have been dreadfully asaulted by a perpetrator. Perhaps this is not the time to open up such possibilitiies?

Other posts here have had me considering many things too...
Bruce, nice one.

I might post again...

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif

--Kevin

[stuart]

I think the situation wavering dragon is refering to would be hex 5 line 3 which would be much more of a concerne to have as a line for stalking.hex 25 line 3 i would not want to go there.hex 62- 3 or 6 also look bad.HEX 26 -3 much more positive as it has more positive defence mentioned than those other lines,and it does not predict a dire outcome.

[peace]

Hi Void:

You mentioned Carol Anthony with a negative implication.
What has been your experience with her interpretations?
Do you believe they are inaccurate?
I use her alot because I like the psychological approach - although I do find they start to all sound the same - maybe because the message is...watch out for your ego and projections.

Thanks,
Rosalie

[waveringdragon]

I have yet to experience an example of anyone benefiting from the type of questioning Zeldiac employed. The bottom line is no one has been able to interpret the reading she received in a way that answers her question. The only way that we can determine if what we are doing is right is by examining the consequences of our actions. Take the last contribution that I made to this thread. The arrogance of it's tone produced no good response. There are laws of life that govern these matters.

It would be interesting if people were to approach the yi and query it in relation to that type of question.

[bruce]

Wavering,

Afraid I have no idea what you're talking about. Zeldia asked nothing about "non-consensual insight into others". She asked "why is this happening to me?"

Further, your comment: "no one has been able to interpret the reading she received in a way that answers her question" falls short of fact.

Thirdly, a term such as "always" has precious few applications to the Yi, unless the interpretations of Yi's meanings are rigid and small. Of course I agree, it better to seek the error in yourself first, but this, when stated as an immovable fact, often does not answer the question objectively. Often the blame or credit does not lie at all within ourselves, any more than a crime is necessarily instigated by the victim of the crime.

Now if you are speaking strictly in universal terms, as regard to karma and such, then it is safe to say that we draw circumstances into our lives based on fear, worry, doubt, hope, belief, etc. But pointing this out to someone who is already in dire distress of victimization is rarely helpful to that person. It will usually only add to their misguided self-doubt and guilt over the matter. The best study I know of on this is the Book of Job.

[zeldiac]

I posted about my reading because I couldn't work it out. I have been surprised and touched by the amount of responses so far generated. My continued thanks to you for your input - even those harsh opinions implying I deserve to be a crime victim! Which I plainly do not deserve. Nobody in my position deserves it.

Bruce, your posting has got me thinking. You interpret that the stalker cannot approach me in the open. This has reminded me of an instance I had forgotten. To do with a business contract I took on a couple of years ago. The client took a peculiar interest in me soon after I started on his contract. Nothing boy-meets-girl but a bit of an obsession when I look back. Obviously I terminated the contract quite soon after taking it on because of his behaviour.

The police (and other relevant parties) hold lists of all the people I know including my business contacts. It might be worth my while pointing him out again? Maybe.

I think the hexagrams and changing lines are not dire warnings, but rather, have answered my question. I don't think the question I asked of finding a reason was too large to ask. It is a clear and straight forward question.

My disposition is to be calm in difficult situations, I am a good facilitator. I keep a cool head in stressful situations. This stalking crime has knocked me off balance and is very scary on a daily basis. But I will get to the bottom of it - and hopefully not too long before I do.

Once again, thanks to you all this far. The prospect of being sent warm thoughts of protection from some of you is also very helpful.

Best wishes
Zelda

[bruce]

Zelda, if your intuition leads you to bring his name up again to the authorities, I'd definitely follow it.

Best wishes to you in this.

[rosada]

Hexagram 4 discribes a Fool who hasn't learned and who repeats past actions. Certainly that could be indicating someone who was bothering you in the past. Even if it turns out this particular person is not the stalker, it might be useful to review what the circumstances were then in the first incident and see if there is some theme repeating itself now.

The homeopathic Bachflower Remedies are usually promoted for balancing emotional states. However, many who take them swear they cause problems to disappear entirely. Perhaps because then we are no longer vibrating on the same emotional wavelength as the one where the problem manefested. Kinda like changing your inner radio dial to tune in a different signal. Anyway, you may find that taking these drops can be useful.

[rosada]

Hexagram 4 discribes a Fool who hasn't learned and who repeats past actions. Certainly that could be indicating someone who was bothering you in the past. Even if it turns out this particular person is not the stalker, it might be useful to review what the circumstances were then in the first incident and see if there is some theme repeating itself now.

The homeopathic Bachflower Remedies are usually promoted for balancing emotional states. However, many who take them swear they cause problems to disappear entirely. Perhaps because then we are no longer vibrating on the same emotional wavelength as the one where the problem manefested. Kinda like changing your inner radio dial to tune in a different signal. Anyway, you may find that taking these drops can be useful.

[rosada]

Uh-oh, sorry for the double posting.

[zeldiac]

Bach flower remedies are great - I believe in the rescue remedy as a good standby :-)
Zelda

[jesed]

HI Zeldiac

Just in case the comment could be useful

When I had been in situations like yours, I didn't ask "why" but "how".

How should I face this situation?

Hopefuly, you could find more inlightment with this kind of aproach.

Best wishes

[zeldiac]

A small amount of progress has been made on my stalking problem in the past week. The various legally involved parties have stepped up their activity.

I've been thinking quite a lot about my own input in trying to get this crime solved. And about my continuing joint efforts with those trying to help me. It prompted me to ask another question of the oracle.

I asked how I could best resolve the harassment problem.

I got 20 and relating 18. I understand the implications of 20, and the changing lines of 2,3,5. But... of 18. How would any of you interpret 18? I'm unsure. If you are all getting fed up of this, feel free to ignore me! :-)

Zelda

[bruce]

Hi Zelda,

Glad to hear you?re making progress with your case.

18 seems like what you and law enforcement are already doing to resolve the matter. 20 is seeing and being seen, and also how you see and are seen, as reflected in your change lines. It appears to me that your lines are offering you choices: to live in a small, limited way, to be visible or invisible or somewhere in-between. Only you can determine this, just as each of us do. Perhaps there is a clue here in examining where and when you may have exposed yourself (been seen) by the one who is stalking you, and even possible ways to avoid that in the future. I don?t know, but it?s a thought. A 20 kind of thought?

[zeldiac]

Thanks Bruce. You seem to have really tuned into my situation. From the case that is building, I'm beginning to think my stalker(s) probably had one of only two ways of selecting me.

Although I predominatly work in isolation, I do get called on periodically to present at seminars and events. People at such events are all middle to high income, with a common business interest. That's one possible way although I haven't been harassed at any events. The second way is maybe somebody who's seen or met me socially? All food for thought anyway. Contemplation is the key I'm sure.

Best wishes
Zelda

[zeldiac]

And a p.s. here.

That one very odd client I've thought about since posting, got me to his premises on 2 occasions beyond normal terms and conditions. Also, on one occasion a really bad thing happened. His receptionist locked me in - she said it was accidentally - but now I look back I'm beginning to read it differently. The client took obvious glee in unlocking the place and letting me out. Maybe this sounds a bit over the top, but it's all come back to me clearly. And I was working towards a seminar presentation for him. Too spooky.

Zelda

[bruce]

Precisely the type of lead that's worth following up on, though I wouldn't draw firm conclusions, yet.

Stay safe and good luck.

[zeldiac]

I think so too, thanks :-)
Zelda

[zeldiac]

Here I am again asking for your help, please :-)

Some additional information turned up on the stalking crime in the past two days. It looks fairly promising in that it might help to uncover the person 'pulling the strings' of the known stalker. Hope that makes sense.

I asked how likely is it that the person will soon be uncovered. I got a primary of 30 with changing 3 & 6. (I also got 51 as relating, and this is what I kind of expected. That I am prepared to be shocked).

I've read up about 30 and think I interpret it positively and being likely I will get the information. But what do the changes signify? I think they conflict with one another and I don't know how to quantify them.

As ever - thanks in advance to anyone who wants to reply to this continued posting.

Best wishes
Zelda

[void]

Hi Zelda, line 6 of 30 seems to me to indicate these people will indeed soon be caught. This line also counsels 'it is best to kill the leaders and take captive the followers' (Wilhelm) Again this confirms there is more than one person involved and when the one who is instigating it all is caught the other is less harmful and warrants a milder punishment. I confess I'm at a loss with line 3 here ? Sometimes the Yi is so literal - an older man, a man who hates getting older, a moaning old man ? Maybe just the movement from 30 to 51 is all we need look at - the perpetrators are suddenly bought to light ?

Heres hoping they are soon out of your life !

[bruce]

I do Yi readings for $1000 each, but am having a 99.9% off sale this week, Zelda. (joke) http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Just a hunch, but I think Yi is saying to go on living. Hold on to what you can trust. Regarding the stalker, give a strong priority to it, but don't let it run your life. Living in perpetual shock won't help.

[bruce]

Void's interpretation makes sense to me too.

[bruce]

Void, line 3 has come up a few times on this board. From what I gather, it can be interpreted as old guys who are desperate to preserve their youth; with the council being to foster dignity. The other is just the opposite. It says not to stop living just because old age is arriving. I can see how both meanings could apply equally well, depending.

[bruce]

With 30, there is always the chance to increase understanding (illuminating your world), and always the chance to miss it.

Just what that increased understanding is, in this case, is hard to tell. 30 includes the image of a net, which could certainly mean capturing something or someone.

[zeldiac]

Hi Bruce and Void

Both of you are of great help. Thanks for the 99.9% discount... how many UK sterling pounds I'll have to calculate... :-)

Today I've had even more positive news from my legal people. Looks like a net really is closing in - and quite fast.

Help has also come in from other sources, and unexpectedly too. This makes me see that the image of a net is very accurate. Without a doubt there are more people involved in this stalking crime than either I or my legal associates would have believed.

So the reading I got is actually more positive than I had anticipated.

You're quite right too - I don't let this thing put my life on hold. I worry a lot, but I keep a smile on my face and a quiet confidence that I will come out stronger from it all.

Best wishes
Zelda

[bruce]

Zelda, if it turns out you're some famous celebrity, I'll accept your autograph in place of the .. let's see, pounds conversion... well, whatever it comes to.

Good news on the closing net front. Keep us informed. When he's captured, we'll all forward our spam mail to his addy!

[zeldiac]

Celebrity... now there's a thing...

Great idea about the spam - I'm up for that, and anything else to bother the guy(s) who've been upsetting my life.

I'll keep you informed of further developments.

Here's my autograph to be going on with!
Zelda http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/talker.gif

[void]

Thanx Bruce for elucidating on that line. I guess it refers to old women too ? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif
beating on our cooking pots and complaining about the pains in our joints. Should we stay by the fire with our bowl of broth or shall we set the town alight ? (I think I prefer to stay by the fire)

Zelda glad to hear things are looking up, keep us posted.

[zeldiac]

It's me again!

Another development today. I've got an opportunity, (I think) of getting some solid information about the stalker the police identified. Not getting the information via the police, but legally elsewhere. Although it could be rather complicated getting what I want. Does that make sense? The issue for me is that the main stalker has been identified, but he remains free and continues harassing me. The law has to work within certain boundaries etc...

Based on my instinct to go ahead, I asked the question: What is the general diagnosis on getting the information if I use this means?

I got 55 with changing line 1, relating 62. Apart from being unsure about the flying bird (a plane?) I took the reading as telling me to proceed.

I asked a subsequent question: how wise am I to proceed right away?

The reading has confused me a little bit.

Primary 49 (Revolution) with changing line 1, relating 31 (Influence).

Help on changing line 1 would be welcome from you experienced people please. What is signified by the hide of a yellow cow?

best wishes to you all
Zelda

[jesed]

Hi Zelda

Just in case the comment could be useful

Among others meanings: Yellow is wisdom; the cow is docility.

Line 1 advice: if you need to take a revolutionary task, you should wait until the right moment (circunstances). To achieve that, you need to restrain yourself (get tied; get hidden) by a perseverant wisdom (or by a wise perseverance).

The point is: proceding this way is an extraordinary path; only under extraordinary circunstances and in propper time should be done. (general sense of hex 49). One shouldn't use this revolutionary ways unless there is no other way to achieve the same goal. And even if there is no other way, before act you should reflex if is the right moment to act, because an unwise action would have bad consecuences (line 1)

Best wishes

[bruce]

Hi Zelda,

It appears highly favorable to continue working together with these contacts who are uncovering the details of your case.

However, your second reading stresses the importance of not getting ahead of yourself. Molting happens only when the time is ready, and not before. Meanwhile, you?ll have to bear the discomfort of the situation; hopefully with patience and endurance. On your own appointed day you shall have your fresh, new beginning.

Sounds very hopeful from here. Just be patient and stay in your skin until the time is right.

[zeldiac]

It's been good to read your responses to my latest enquiry. I am learning so much from your opinions and interpretations. They are clear and make sense.

The past few days have been stressful for me. I've been coordinating a very public event a long way from home. It put me directly before hundreds of people. I was thinking all the time 'which stalker(s) are watching me?'.

I've had more information come through from my recent legal contact. I'm hopeful to get more soon. In the meantime I'm as watchful as ever.

Best wishes to all
Zelda

[zeldiac]

On 9th January I posted in this thread about my reading of primary 30 & relating 51. My enquiry was that I'd wanted to know if the perpetrators of the crimes against me would soon be uncovered.

The general feedback was that I would soon get what I wanted. And would probably be quite shocked by the details.

Yesterday, I received a huge part of the information I was looking for. I am completely shocked by it. But very relieved to have it. There is more information due to come to me imminently.

The very frightening discovery is that the main stalker is known to me. But by a false name to that known by the police. I met him very briefly at just two social occasions. He made no impression on me, and was someone I've never thought about since the second time I met him. The guy is obviously very sick. My only vague thought at the second time of meeting him was that he seemed to be persistent in getting me to talk to him. But he was very boring to me, so I politely moved on to other social attendees.

This is not the end of the crime, but a good move ahead. Many other facets of the crime are still outstanding. But what a revelation.

As a newcomer to the value of IChing, this has been one amazing route of discovery. And to have such generous support from my fellow community members is truly heart warming.

A huge thanks to you all as ever - Bruce especially!

Zelda

[bruce]

Zelda, you are being too generous. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Very happy to hear you are making progress. Let's hope it is resolved quickly.

[peace]

Hi Zelda;

This certainly seems like a step in the right direction for you.

I went back to your original casting:
20.2.3.5 to 18.

20 is about contemplation and the lines distinguish between looking outward and inward.

20.2 - Limited outlook, looking too much within.
Clearly, you looked within and from what you're saying - you racked your brains for something you may have contributed and it turned out it was something external with no contribution from you.

20.3 - A transition line - transition from naive thinking, accompanied by not knowing which way to go.
It sounds like this experience, as unfortunate and horrible as it is, has made you less naive.

20.6 - The importance of watching people's responses.
From what you said, I don't know if there was anything you could have done when this guy started talking to you - but what you did do, which was walk away. This reinforces that you trusted your instincts.

As for 30 changing to 51.....
Light and clarity (simplification) got you answers from yourself and others - leading to shock! You certainly seemed shocked that this strange guy who you don't even know and hardly interracted with is the stalker.

Quite creepy. I know you're on the right track and hopefully this creep will be apprehended soon.

Keep us informed.
Rosalie

[zeldiac]

Things are looking up. It appears I'm on the right track to finding out who the real stalker is.

A name has come up repeatedly during past days within the various legal circles helping me. The worst thing of all is that the person named is a former client whom I held in the very highest regard. He was one of my favourite business people of all time and I really respected him.

This is not yet fully confirmed by the legal people, but strongly favourable to be the outcome.

I asked of the Yi what is the general diagnosis on him having done this terrible thing to me?

I got primary 26 changing line 5, with relating 9. What does a gelded boar (line 5) represent?

best wishes to you all
Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

To me it looks like a ?gelded boar? is someone taken in control... It could be that the stalker (the gelded boar) is caught or at least put down so much that he (she?) can?t do much harm... I realy hope for you that I?m right, but I do not know for shure ofcourse, and I will kill myself if this is only false hope... But it seems like there is someone put down...

Hang in there!

Hug,
Frank

[void]

Agreeing with Frank. You had 26, 1 and 3 a while ago with regard to this didn't you ? Seems the hexagrams progressing as you get nearer your solution. A potentially dagerous force is rendered harmless, its 'tusks are removed'. I hope that is the case for sure.

(ps Frank I hope you do not kill yourself if you are wrong. Why not just spank yourself instead like you usually do http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif)

[bruce]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/lol.gif

[jesed]

Hi Zeldiac

First, sorry for my poor English; maybe I understood wrong your question.

If I understood well, your questions was something like: "Is x the stalker?"

If this is correct, for me 26.5 is like: he is inofensive even if he seems to be dangerous.

Application for your question: even if he looks to be the stalker, he is doing nothing bad to you (he is not). This is how I would read your answer, if the questions was to know if X is or not the stalker

Best wishes

[zeldiac]

Thanks for your input everyone. Frank, I agree with Void, don't kill yourself on my account!

The gelded boar theories sounds about right. Watch this space as the saying goes for anything more that transpires. I feel the end is in sight for this bad situation. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/shades.gif

Best wishes
Zelda

[frank]

Hello,

It was all just expression... I will spank myself now... Let us know, Zelda, what happend...

Huggie,
Frank

[zeldiac]

I'm back again with the stalker issue. If you're all fed up of it by now, feel free to completely ignore me! But if you're still vaguely interested, perhaps you might want to give me your opinion on this latest reading.

Things have progressed legally in the past two weeks. Some helpful information has reached me from a key legal contact, but only through word of mouth. Rather than bore you with the fine detail, it's enough to say that I need to get the information in writing and fairly quickly. But what if I don't get it in writing? It's vital I get it.

I asked the Yi what the general diagnosis is on this important information being handed over in writing to me.

The answer was 1, Creative with moving lines 4 & 6. Am I right thinking this is a positive reading, that I will get the information in writing? Are the arrogant dragons repenting the folks behind the stalking problem? Or have I lost the plot completely by now? Hope you can help me clipart{happy}

[jesed]

Hi Zeldiac

Just in case the comment could be useful

"General Diagnosis" is, like the prhase said: a) A description of the presente situation; and b) A general situation

Try to know if the information will be in your hand in paper is not a present situation neither a general situation; but a doubt about future concrete facts.

What I'm traying to said is: even if I had suggest the "general diagnosis" kind of question, it doesn't mean that every question should beging with "general diagnosis....".

Even more, some times mixing "general diagnosis" with concrete doubts in one prhase could lead you to confusion on understanding the readings.

best wishes

[zeldiac]

Thanks Jesed - point taken. I'm perhaps being over zealous in asking too open a question. Trying to avoid the 'will I or won't I?' scenario.

best wishes
Zelda

[bruce]

Hi Zelda,

Still following your story with interest. I just haven't had anything to contribute as of late.

If I understand this last reading correctly, 5 would be your relating hex. I generally pay close attention to the relating gua, especially for more open type questions.

There seems a correlation between 1.4 and 5, in that there is no creative action taken at the moment. There is wavering, or "chillin out" in both. And to press forward too strongly for resolution is shown in 1.6. Hex 1, in general, I?d see as the forward Yang push, which in this case is tempered through relaxation and enjoying the small things in life, while waiting.

[zeldiac]

Hi Bruce

I understand your comments, and I think you're right. Lately I feel more calm about this stalking situation; more able to get back to enjoying my 'ordinary' life. The waiting game seems to have gone on for ever, but I'm developing patience while I wait.

Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

I hope everything is going OK with you and that this situation will be over in no time. In the meanwhile I think that by getting hexagram 1 as answer to your question what the diagnosis would be of the writting you would receive (and did you already?), the Yi is trying to calm you down a little bit. Hexagram 1 is all Yang, so a lot of energy. The trigram below stays heaven, as lines 4 & 6 change, so there still be a a strong person inside you. You are getting stronger and stronger in this. So... go girl!. BUT...

Line 4 is changing hex. 1 into 9, the clouds are there, but the rain has not come yet, as the writting you received or are receiving is about actions to be taken, information to be stored, and trying to get emotions straigth. Hex. 9 is about details, and things not comming out immidiatly and impatience could be in store (very well understood tough!). The Yi is asking you to watch the details as something has to be done with that. In the meanwhile when things again are changed in detail you do not try to be overconfidend (arrogant dragon in line 6), and wait (hexagram 5), for the outcome...

Does this make some sense?

Hang in there!

Hug,
Frank

[zeldiac]

Frank what a kind person you are to explain your interpretation so clearly. What you say is equally valid and thought provoking.

I'm definitely playing a waiting game just now and find it frustrating. Have you heard the expression 'the devil's in the detail'? That's the way I see the request for information in writing.

The person who will make the final decision on giving me the written confirmation is very notable. A high ranking official. The difficulty I face is this.

I already know the information because one of the official's personnel has told me. But - by getting it in writing strengthens my forthcoming legal case. Strongly. It will definitely ensure the stalkers get what they legally deserve. Without the written information - my situation becomes more negative. It will negatively impact on my taking full legal redress when the time is right. Which is what my advisors have universally told me is my appropriate action.

So as I said ' the devil's in the detail' - nothing in writing, further negates the situation.

I'm thinking about asking another question of Yi because there is total silence in relation to my request for the information to be given to me in writing. But working out the question structure is taking me some time. No doubt I will come up with something suitable.

I appreciate your kind interest in my ongoing case. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm boring all you people into a coma-like state!

Best wishes
Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

Thank you for the compliment. I?m almost permantly blushing on this site these last two months :-D. Now you said something about a high official? Ha, that could be hexagram 1 as well, as the trigram ?heaven? is about the father in the family, the chief of the board, the high official. Probably he has to do get some more details, perhaps PROVE, before he hands it over. The heaven above changes into wind, so... idea?s, an attribute of heaven, as heaven symbolises our thoughts, will be deepend (wind > study)...I am not, by the way, busy in trying to get you false hope or anything, so I could be wrong here, but I think not...

In the meanwhile, be like hex. 5, if that?s possible, and try to relax and ?wait with wine and speices?, as line 5 is saying... and trust yourself that the solution to all of this is near.

Hang in there!

And at least I?m not in a coma (yet)...

Hug,
Frank

[rosada]

Hi Zelda,
Just wanting to add to Frank's comment that we are most certainly NOT in a coma re your true life adventure. With newspapers mostly printing stories about how evil prevails it means alot to read of a situation where the well intentioned soul not only survives but triumphs. Please know your stoey is REAl to us and we so appreciate your sharing and we are visualizing you arriving home safe and sound.
Best!
rosada

[zeldiac]

I appreciate your latest input Frank and Rosada. My spirits are lifted by your words. I'm waiting and I'm hoping.

Yesterday I received a short letter from the official I mentioned. He is presently considering my request. He tells me that he will decide whether I should have the details I want in writing by 2nd March. So it looks as if he really is the father figure as indicated in Hex 1. I'm working hard on visualising him giving me what I need in writing. It's too awful to think he will not give me what I need. I sometimes feel within this situation that the criminals have a pretty easy life in comparision to crime victims, but I'm never bitter. I just hope I keep strong. And that the end of this thing is in sight.

regards
Zelda

[zeldiac]

I'm back again with a miniature update. I'm still awaiting the written information I so badly need to help my case. There have been some added obstructions in the past week. I've begun to feel very stressed with the delay but I'm trying to remain calm.

The 2nd March is the cut off date for the written information to reach me or to be refused. I'm worrying. I asked of the Yi 'can I expect to receive the full information by 2nd March?'. I think my reading is positive: Primary 19 Approach, but with changing line 2, and relating 24 Fu. I read this quite positively, and am hoping your generous opinions might tell me my interpretation is heading in the right direction.

Hope all of you are ok and having peaceful days.
Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

Thanks for the update, and I keep my fingers crossed for you, as I have no idea what it brings to you in waiting, frustration, getting stressed with the delay, etc. At least there is a 'deadline' in the form of the 2nd of March, and that is still some weeks away, but at least it is something. Hang in there!

Hexagram 19 as answer to your question, acording to Yi-author Wu Jingnuan asks about simplicity. I think the Yi is still trying to calm you down, although I find that a harsh answer, as it is a very normal way of behaviour getting angry, frustrated, stressed out, etc... But as line 2 is saying: "All arrive. Good Fortune. Without doubt advantageous", the Yi is demanding simplicity in emotions. By getting 24 as the 'end hexagram' the Yi asks you to get back to your own sources, your own base, your inner strengh. Perhaps you are busy trying to lose yourself a little bit here, and as you are continuing to do that the oracle warns you 'misfortune in the 8th month'... That phrase only tells me that the misfortune is NOT laid down in August, or September (aprox the 8th month for the Chinese), and not even 8 months from now (which would then be October), but it could warn you not to be that stressfull, because although very understandable, you have your energylimits as well... and within 8 months from now you could feel overtired. 24 then as a hexagram is trying to get you down, back at your feet..... By telling that things will arrive in time, and by reading line 2 I think you could get info on the 2nd of March, although I'm very carefull in giving false hopes, and that starts also a new return towards yourself...

I hope it makes some sense, and again: hang in there!

Hug.
Frank

[jesed]

Hi Z

Just in case the comment could be useful:

According with mathematical method

Date (??; clarify the day when the question was made is needed)

Month Tiger (wood)

Subject: Zeldiac

Key element: aspect R (letter, written information)

Void element (??; clarify the day when the question was made is needed)

Interpretation:
Subject Line is in line 2 Rabbit (wood); is strong and healthy.. means good luck
Key element is in line 1 Snake (fire); fire is produced by wood of the month.. means good luck

Active line is line 2 (subject), Wood produces fire... means the activity of the consultant produces the letter. But the resultant element is Tiger (wood); is a retreatment movement; this means hinderence, obstacles

The tendential hex (24) is a "total combination"; when asking yes/no means YES


Conclusion:
It seems that the letter will arrive, after several obstacles.
Most probably it will arrive in day/month tiger or snake.

Important Note: the accuracy of this conclusion is conditional.. the exactly day when the consult was made is needed to give an accuracy prediction.

Best wishes

[jesed]

ps

Assuming that the question was made on February 18, 2006:

A) According with traditional teachings, the paper would be arrive; no later than March 17, 2006

B) According with mathematical method, the paper would be arrive; most probably in one of the next days: February 18, 19 or 21; March 2, 3, 5, 14, 15, 17, 26 or 27

[lightofdarkness]

Jesed asked me to review this thread from an ICPlus perspective.

Some basic points:

(1) 18 & 19 Feb, 5 & 26 March, r on a weekend where most postal services dont deliver so it better be by courier! (I also note that Jesed makes no distinctions of time zones etc but I must assume that his method 'magically' does)

(2) the thread is riddled with the use of the traditional IC using 'random' methods and as such applying the WHOLE of the IC as a filter with no differentiation beyond that. Thus since the WHOLE of the IC applies to the moment/question/situation so ANY hexagram derived will be 'meaningful' - the variations in meaning etc will be due to the method used - IOW coin toss will give different results to yarrow stick etc due to the differences in biases in each (yarrow is biased to yin, coin is 50/50. Therefore local context culture can determine the best method to use - a more 'yin' oriented culture uses yarrow. A more yang oriented culture should use reverse_yarrow. A 'middle of the road' culture should use coins etc etc etc)

What is in fact happening when using 'random' methods is you get the full set of hexagrams as an answer but with one particular determined to be the 'best fit'. Using coin tossing there is a 1 in 64 chance of the hexagram truely being the 'best fit' and all hexagrams can be found to be 'meaningful' to varying degrees (with our consciousness 'filling in the dots' to ensure we get the meaning we want!)

The reality is that all hexagrams make-up a set of universals where local context, and so the 'question' etc will sort that set of universals into a best-fit/worst-fit ordering. Random methods etc cannot ensure the 'best fit' they claim to derive IS "THE" best fit.... but then we can always claim it is a miracle or synchronicity ;-) (the latter easily possible when any of the first, say, 10 hexagrams of the true 'best fit' order are derived and our consciousness deems that best fit to be close enough! (it will FEEL that way but then the 10 will fall into a pool of feeling of being the 'best fit' ) - IOW a 6th of the hexagrams will be close enough to the 'best fit' for any one of those to be declared the true 'best fit' and it must be due to synchronicity etc - Jung actually applies the term in a more 'objective' way emphasising a 'proximity' factor - as in a couple of days etc rather than 100% 'sync' all of the time)

What ICPlus shows we CAN do that elicits 'best fits' in a more consistant manner, is use generic questions to identify what 'buttons' are being pressed in an individual by the context and so identify that context and so the 'best fit' hexagram. Once identified all of the remaining hexagrams fall into their 'correct' positions in the 64-hexagram sequence (or 8 trigram sequence or 4096 dodecagram sequence etc etc depending on the depth of analysis) - at that point the questioner has the choice of (a) adopting the best fit or (b) trying to assert their own context or (c) moving on.

The question method is at:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusProact.html

Unlike Jesed's methods, ICPlus lays no claim to being able to predict the fall of particular lotto balls at a certain date/time ;-) - ICPlus is more interested in the facts *behind* the IC general methodology and the exploitation of those facts for the consistant benefit of individual/collective.

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

BTW - the use of random/miraculous methods allows for the derivation of some aspect of a situation not considered without going through all of the hexagrams - IOW it has its uses ;-)

The more we unravel the neuroscience data so the more we can see how it is that such metaphors developed and continue to find success in their use. At the same time, we also discover aspects of the methodology not covered (or marginalised) in the traditional material.

Chris.

[jesed]

so

ICPlus cann't do something traditional I Ching can.. is interesting to know that

Thanks Cris

[lightofdarkness]

The methodology you use Jesed is based in a specialist perspective and can elicit delusions/illusions (and so paradox issues). IOW the traditional IC can elicit delusions/illusions which you then try to live by in your particular 'small world network' (have you won lotto yet? repeatedly? I ask since you methodology implies you can do it whenever you wish.... or are you now going to give some ethics-based excuse why you dont do it? (ethics being the Science of Freedom)

I guarantee you that serious, empirical, research into your methodology would raise BIG issues that would threaten your faith. But then you would not want to do that would you. Better to maintain the illusions/delusions eh? ;-) - and thats fine - you keep doing what you are doing and I am sure you will be content. ;-)

The ICPlus material is derived from IDM analysis of how our neurology works and interacts with reality. The question method used in ICPlus works EXTREMELY WELL since it works off the basic premises of:

(0) The universal dynamics of differentiating/integrating elicits patterns of behaviour that serve as general context.

(1) General Context pushes particular instincts. (and demonstrated in the instincts/habits encoding in or close to input areas of the neurology - it also refines/creates instincts/habits through feedback loops; negative allows for integration with context (equilibrium), positive allows for 'extremes' in dealing with context - highs, lows)

(2) Instincts elicit feelings that allow for meaning derivation and its communication.

(3) Consciousness can 'interrogate' those feelings in a precise, structured way to bring out their response nature to the stimulus.

(4) Given the nature of the responses we can identify the nature of the general context working as stimulus (IOW we can map out the FULL spectrum of what is going on - the 'big picture' so to speak as it pushes one's buttons.)

(5) Given the nature of the context in the form of a hexagram we can use XOR methods to extract the properties and methods of that hexagram and so (a) go with the flow or (b) fight it, or (c) move on.

Simple. Repeatable. Sourced in empirical studies. Proven. Available for all with no need for 'specialist' understanding.

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

BTW - note in the ICPlus questions the focus is on questions regarding the context - and so does not address the particular question but more so what buttons are being pushed in you to ask such a question.

IOW "does he love me?" is not addressed. What is addressed are the GENERAL feelings associated with the question (values, possibles etc). The answers then give an indication of what is forcing you to ask the question and so aid in dealing with the context and so allows for long term planning/analysis etc etc.

With just two questions we can identify the four core contexts of human behaviours, here identified through Kersey's et al:

identity seeking
security seeking
solutions seeking
sensation seeking

Add a third and we move to the realm of trigrams. Add three more and we move to hexagrams. Simple stuff. The focus is not on the particular but on the harmonics etc surrounding it and so 'forcing' the question.

Note carefully that given a hexagram for a context, using XOR we can extract details including the probable path of development of that context and from there CHOOSE if we want to stay with it or not. - and we can do this repeatedly, simply.

Jung tried to show the dynamics with his concept of sychronicity but he did not have access to current reasearch data showing we have a model of reality 'in here' in the form of differentiating/integrating patterns that we use to relate to the image 'out there'. Using the ICPlus questions there is always 'synchronicity' since the model reflects, in general, the context (unless you get the questions 'wrong' ;-))

(this also touches on the traditional perspective of the importance of the question. ICPlus indicates that the question should be about feelings in response to the context to then identify the hexagram that 'fits' that context. - and not to use 'random' methods etc to benefit from this nore ask such questions as "does he/she love me?")

Chris.

[zeldiac]

Frank, Jesed, Chris I appreciate all of your latest input. Some of the messages will take me more time to fully understand, but thanks for having posted. Also, I confirm that the 18th February (UK) was date I asked the latest question.

Zelda

[zeldiac]

I'm back again and I'm devastated. Today I received two letters from two 'top' men. They have both consulted together, so I'm informed. And they have jointly refused to put in writing the information I requested. Without this information, I am further obstructed in getting my stalker stopped. In reality, the decision allows the stalker(s) free rein to continue harassing me indefinitely. I don't understand it.

I have been told 'off the record' the details I need, but I've been refused the information in writing.

I'm stunned. I had begun to believe I would get it. I must have misinterpreted my recent consultations of the Yi.

When I feel better I will think of how to proceed. Thanks for your interest in my case. I just wonder why it seems the criminals have a greater chance of success than victims of crime?

Best wishes
Zelda

[jesed]

Hi Zelda

"It seems that the letter will arrive, after several obstacles"

Let's wait until the end of March

Best wishes

[zeldiac]

Thanks Jesed - I note what you wrote on 18th February, and you're probably right. You ended with: 'Conclusion: It seems that the letter will arrive, after several obstacles.
Most probably it will arrive in day/month tiger or snake'. Sorry if I seem agitated but I'm so sad today.

Best wishes
Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

Please, hang in there. I still have an idea that by getting hex. 9 or 1 earlier that it all has to do with details and it takes time ?before the rain comes out of the clouds...? I?m again very carefull in giving false hope, and it is abselutly very understandable that you respond and are nervous in responding the way you do, and the Yi does understand that too. I have realy no idea what it feels like to be in a situation you are in, but I realy wish you all the strengh in this. Again: Hang in there, and know there is someone thinking about you in a more positive way....

Hug,
Frank

[zeldiac]

Thanks for your message Frank. It helped me to get things a bit more in perspective.

I've been busy in the past few days. Gathered my thoughts and decided to issue a formal appeal to the top guys who have rejected my request for written confirmation. The appeal was as clear and well founded as I could possibly make it.

I've just asked Yi another question: Have I done enough within my appeal to get the information I want?

I think the result looks favourable. And it fits in with the previous reading which suggested I would have to overcome obstacles before getting what I want.

I got primary 2 with changing lines 3 & 4, and the relating 62. My interpretation is that after consideration the top guys will release details in writing. I see line 3 and its referral of being in service to the king as equating to the top guy who has makes major decisions. Also, I think (I hope) I've interpreted line 4 correctly as meaning the situation should be resolved, 'tied up'. What do you think?

Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

To me hex. 2 is a hexagram that deal for a part with acceptance and being led, and on another part about interaction between people... so I think the Yi is telling you that you have to accept the things as they are going these days first and interact with the ?top guys? so to speak. I have trouble in getting this clear, so perhaps you could explain me something... What is this actual writting all about? Is it a permission to get the stalkers or something, a thing from court that they have to be at least in a mile distance? I have trouble in understanding this and if I see this more clear the answer of the Yi could be better ?translated?... But as I see the answers sofar at least hex. 2 is about being led, acceptance and interaction. Be like a mare... Find friends in the Southwest (where the earth, acceptance and interaction is, acording to the trigramcircle of the later Heaven), and not in the Northeast (where mountains are... standing still, looking back to much...).

When you look at the 3rd line the hexagram changes into hex.15 Modesty... The judgement sais you get ?result?. But in a modest way... In the same view as acceptance first, this means that you win a lot by not having to high expectations first, how ever hard that is at this point. The way people look at a ?stalker problem? is almost all the time in favour of the one who is being stalked, and there is no doubt in my mind that these guys are helping you every way they can, so there must be something else why the Yi is saying to you, almost constantly, to calm down, to accept the things as they are going these days, and stay in interaction and being led by others. This is a test for your patience... Also the outcome when changing line 3 to hex. 15... Be modest first... Han Boering, a dutch I Ching author is saying about hex. 15 that it needs craftmanship to do this...! So be proud about what you do anyway you can, how ever small!

Changing line 4 ONLY you get 16 Enthousiasm... As the ?end?hexagram is 62 and again about staying low (in the nest), Han Boering is saying about 62 that this a situation that will look like a ?transition?. By going to hex. 15 before going to hex. 16... you have to get less expectations, so the enthousiasm (16) can be more down to earth.
I do not know for shure if this transition is within you, and the lower expectations and therefor the better way of dealing with the whole situation, or that the whole deal is in transition...

Is this babbling of me making some sense what so ever :-D?

Hang in there!

Hug,
Frank

[zeldiac]

Frank, your interpretation is very helpful. You have spent a lot of time on this, which I appreciate. And you are definitely not babbling!

The information I need in writing is related to Court. Well done for working that out - I try not to put too much detail in because this case has dragged on for such a long time. Maybe I should end this thread and start off another one?!

I've been told 'confidentially' what has led to the stalker harassing me. That information is very valuable to me and my lawyer. Because it gives my lawyer the chance to get the stalker restrained and, hopefully, stopped for good.

But - because the stalker has also been established as harassing some other people, I've been refused the information being given in writing.

This sounds crazy, but it's true. Apparently to put the information in writing means it is accessible to 'the general public'. And because of the stalker being associated to a number of cases (!) the legal people deem it as being unsafe to give me the information in writing.

I've argued that without the information in writing, justice cannot prevail. And more importantly for me, I remain stalked and remain unsafe.

Hope all this makes sense and gives some clear background to my being determined to get the written evidence. All I want is to be free of being harassed - which at present, is impossible. I live in hope. Thanks again for your interpretation.

Best wishes
Zelda

[peace]

Please stay safe - whatever you have to do Zelda.

My prayers are with you,
Rosalie

[peace]

Please stay safe - whatever you have to do Zelda.

My prayers are with you,
Rosalie

[lightofdarkness]

Frank, an aside:

The 15/16 reflects more a summing of the individual qualities to give the consequence in their summing in 62 rather than a temporal element of one first, then the other. This is the 'wave' form of interpretation where hexagrams with multiple yang lines are superpositions of those hexagrams with one basic yang line meanings. This is covered in:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveInterpret.html

Hexagram 62 covers issues of unconditional loyalty (56 being conditional). It covers the recognition of possible 'collapse' of a collective, gone past its use-by date or is going through a recession/depression etc, and attempts to delay/deal-with such an event by appeals to the loyalty of the members of the collective.

The methodology is through keeping words close to the facts, no 'false' highs or lows (and so the 15 element with a focus on developing trust in another/others out of a context of being 'blocked', blocking, stopped, stopping etc - this block focus on mountain contains the seed for developing quality control - discernment).


Given 15 we add the use of foresight to see what is coming (and so a focus on the future) and to plan for dealing with that event enthusiastically (16 focuses on a base of devotion to 'something' with awareness in the top position)

62 utilises the overplaying of traditions that are the foundations of the collective in the past bring out a sense of loyalty, of enthusiasm in devotion to the collective for the future. We stick to the well-known traditions, no extremes, but 'enthuse' them, act them out, exaggerate their core meanings, to make them obvious and so bring out the dependencies on social structure etc (the trick here is balance where 16 wants enthusiasm and 15 wants to level things out and so your comment covering a sense of being enthusiastically 'down to earth') - thus 'staying low in the nest' reflects the using of existing protection ('traditions' etc) - being loyal to that tradition ('nest') ensures one is protected from the real or imagined.

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

Just to cover the 'bit' representation rather than the 'wave' representation of lines, we need to focus on the inclusive OR operator of logic. What this does is show the result of 'summing' two or more hexagrams by analogy with some other hexagram.

Using the focus on hexagrams 15 and 16, the 'sum' is 62. This is NOT an "AND" operation since AND-ing 15 and 16 gives:

001000
000100
------ AND
000000

The focus of AND is on sameness in BOTH.

We could use XOR (one or the other but not both) to give:

001000
000100
------ XOR
001100 - that works

We can use IOR (one or the other or both):

001000
000100
------
001100 - and so does that

We not there is no apparent difference here between XOR and IOR. However we know that for some relationship to be consistent so the relationship of two WHOLES must also be manifest in the relationship of their PARTS. In previous work I have identified getting the spectrum of a hexagram using the XOR operation. Lets use 27-ness as an example. The 27-ness of 15 is 101001. The 27-ness of 16 is 100101. The 27-ness of 62 is 101101. So we need to derive the 27-ness of 62 from the sum of the 27-ness of 15 and 16, so lets apply the operators:

101001 (27-ness of 15)
100101 (27-ness of 16)
------ (XOR)
001100 (wrong, we want the 27-ness of this)

101001
100101
------ (AND)
100001 (wrong)

101001
100101
------ (IOR)
101101 (RIGHT - this is the 27-ness of 62))


SO ... the correct methodology in 'summing' hexagrams is the use of the IOR operator where we sum all of the yang lines across the hexagrams ( and so the notion of one or the other or both)

The overall idea is to express in I Ching terms the summing of hexagrams in that the sum is in the form of another hexagram serving as a source of analogy (e.g. if we sum all of the hexagrams the result will be 01 - reflecting the 'total actualisation' of all hexagrams as the characteristics of 01.)

If we focus on the personality properties of hexagrams so there is scope for generic relational analysis (limited to a language of 64 categories - and so a possible need to move to dodecagram levels to elicit hexagrams with moving lines)

I will put the above in a different thread so it can be dicussed further there without continued distraction away from this thread.

Chris

[frank]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the aside. I have to read it over, but I have an idea that you actually in your own words are telling the same thing :-D! I did not see the depression in 62, but yes that can be something to... Stay in the nest as you are starting to get out of it... Transition out of a depression... Don?t go to fast as the change is big that the you scip steps in the proces... Han Boering, a Dutch I Ching author tells that 62 is also about mourning, and as we know thhe mourningprocess needs time, otherwise it will break you up later... It?s a time Zelda probably has to go trough all the way...

Thanks again Chris for your point of view.

Hug,
Frank.

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

Now I get it... Ofcourse there is acceptance needed in a way things are going but especialy when other, harmless people, are involved. They need as much protection as you do... You do not want them to read about you, right? So why read about them... Hex. 2 is definitly acceptance here.

I could dig deeper in to this by explaining other ?helpfull? hexagrams (there are many...), but that could distract you... And before I start to sound like Chris, I appologize in advance, but there could be some new insights in these, so here I go anyway... :-D

1. The ?idea? hexagram of 2 would be 57... Subbtle Penetration... The idea behind all the waiting and acceptance is to get deeper into the solution.

2. The ?Form? hexagram, the way things looks in a more structural way is hexagram 29... Waiting while you have the idea that you walk very small and slippery paths along a mountainway... And 29 is indeed the concrete manifestion of a depression... The lines are telling ?depression on depression, although they are NOT your fault?...

3. The ?heaven? hexagram, symbolising our thoughts is Hex. 2... so although in depression you stay open to whatever comes into your path...

4. The ?human? hexagram, symbolising our emotions is hex. 12. You have the feeling that things are standing still, and it will not move any further...

5. The ?earth? hexagram, symbolising our steps we want to take is again hex.2. You know already that acceptance is the way to handle things...

and there is so much more...

6. Within the procesmodel of the I Ching, something I found after inspiration reading words about the Enneagram, 2 is about ?Forming Interaction?... But interaction as a waiting member and not someone who takes the innitiative.

7. The ?Yuan? of 2 is in 11... You had a peacefull time before all this...

8. The ?Heng? of 2 is 2... You have to be led now.... (as you already know :-D)

9. The ?Li? of 2 is 12... There will still be some standstill in the near future. (but that is more in to the emotions then in other things, as we have seen above)

10. The ?Zhen? of 2 is 1... By accepting things you handle already...

I apologize again for taking Zelda?s space here, and her tread, for letting people know that I ?know? things as well, but I do also respect the questions people ask before throwing all the knowledge on someones lap... I know I?m not babbling... But I have respect as well...

?He who babbles does not know...
He who know does not babble?
LAO ZI...

There is the star of Tian Liang in my Chinese Horoscope with the Destinyhouse... People with that star within there Destiny house know more then they will ever tell...

And NOW am babbling, because I do not know anything...

Hang in there Zelda!

Hug,
Frank

[lightofdarkness]

Frank -

(1) mourning is involved with ritual and so traditions - so ANY ritual/tradition is covered in 62 where one exploits the knowledge of those rituals to maintain/extend loyalty past the use-by/best-before date of a collective.

(2) I dont see any 'idea' element associating 57 with 02. From the self-referencing perspective, getting the IC to describe itself, the 57-ness of 02 is 57 in that the pool of potentials (02) will always reflect a particular actual. IOW all hexagrams XOR-ed with 02 will generate themselves as the analogy covering the X-ness of a hexagram. - thus 57 covers issues of cultivation, to bring to fruition - a general element of Wind (and so such hexagrams as 18 that covers issues of corruption (rotting, neglect) that are part of the cultivation element.) - IOW there is scope for the *cultivation* of an idea (the transforming from raw to refined as covered in the wind-based 50)

29 covers more issues of containment/control from a sociological position and so 02, as a pool of potentials, will 'reflect' 29-ness as 29.

Is there an element of 'form' there? sort of in that social constrainted focus on 'guiding' the individual (e.g. the socialisation of the young as expressed in the water-based hexagram of 04) - but this is expressed emotionally through issues with rejection. (In five phase this area (WATER) of consumption (internal distribution) is 'controlled' by filtration and so rules about what goes 'in' vs what we reject such that the 'form' is focused on what is allowed in etc.

Then you have:

"The ?human? hexagram, symbolising our emotions is hex. 12. You have the feeling that things are standing still, and it will not move any further..."

Hmmmm - IMHO your missing a LOT here - too biased to exploiting the limited 'traditional', Wilhelm, translation. What is feeling limited is the "book of changes" in that IT considers this hexagram a representation of a limitation - the focus in 12 is on neutralising and so sticking to one's faith/belief/relationship despite the attacks of others focused on changing that faith etc.

Our emotions are covered by ALL hexagrams of the IC, not just this one. This one emotionally represents anger operating in a context of fear where fear makes us seek protection in numbers and so devotion to another/other that we will then fight for to retain that 'stability' over 'change'. Issues then come when we insist on keeping the position after it obviously has become 'unstable'. (and so the encoding of both positive and negative in the one hexagram where CONTEXT will decide on the 'colour')

etc etc

Chris.

[jesed]

Hi Zelda

Your question was:
"Have I done enough within my appeal to get the information I want?"

In the way I see it, the answer is somethinh?g like: hex 2: "it is not in your hands; is beyond your action"; hex 62: do not have high expectatives on your own action.

Not necessarly that you won't get the information; just that you have little or non power at all to act.

Best wishes

[frank]

Hi Chris,

Jippie, glad I can say for once... YOU don?t get the signal, Chris :-D!

And ofcourse 12 is a lot more then I wrote here...

Huggie,
Frank

[zeldiac]

Frank, Roaslie, Jesed, Chris - you're amazing people. So much information and opinion expressed from you all. I remain very much the amateur when I read all you write on this subject. But as always, I thank you for your insight. I'm 'hanging in there' - best wishes to all.

Zelda

[zeldiac]

A brief update on this long running stalking issue.

Today I heard from my advisors. The written information I requested has once more been refused. I find this frustrating. Especially as the stalking continues unabated whilst the information is withheld.

The best I can hope for - according to my advisors - is to try one more appeal... I am told that it could have an 80% success chance. But how this calculation has been reached beats me! When I get my head around all of this, I will formulate an appropriate enquiry of the Yi.

Best wishes to you all - I hope you are all having peaceful lives
Z

[zeldiac]

Hello again everyone who looks at this posting.

Great news! The written information I needed so much has finally come through. I'm delighted and relieved. This means that using proper legal channels my stalker can now be stopped. Action is being taken from today.

This has been a long (and unexpected) road for me to have travelled. It has also been a long friends area thread! Thank you for having supported and helped me through this journey.

Having re-read some of the thread postings again, I note the accuracy of your interpretations. Typically the most recent postings gave me the will to continue 'hanging in there'. They also made me realise that a major problem for me to handle throughout was that my destiny was being formatted by others. Against my will. The stalker had affected everything I did every day. The officials to whom I continued appealing for help affected whether the stalker would be stopped. Now I have this great feeling of liberation.

Kind wishes
Zelda

[frank]

Hi Zelda,

Great news! I hope things are going into the right direction now. I?m glad I could be of some help in the suport.

Hug,
Frank

[jesed]

Dear Zelda

1.- Congratulations. I hope your life improve more and more from here


2.- With self-examination, I had re-read my opinions about this issue of getting the paper information:

a) "The paper would arrive, after several obstacles" (Feb 18, 2006) THE PAPER DID ARRIVE AFTER SEVERAL OBSTACLES)

b) "According with traditional teachings, the paper would arrive, no later than March 17, 2006" (Feb 18, 2006) THE PAPER DID ARRIVE, BUT LATER THAN MARCH 17

c) "The paper would arrive, mos probably in day tiger or snake" (Feb 18, 2006) MAY I ASK YOU THE DAY WHEN YOU GOT THE PAPER?

d) "ICPLUS can't do something traditional I Ching can": "to predict the fall of particular lotto balls at a certain date/time" in Chris' words (Feb 20, 2006) EACH ONE CAN DERIVATE IT'S OWNS CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS PRACTICAL EXPERIMENT

e) Reminding "It seems that the letter will arrive, after several obstacles" (March 01, 2006) THE LATTER DID ARRIVE AFTER SEVERAL OBSTACLES

f) "Not necessarly that you won't get the information; just that you have little or non power at all to act" (March 9, 2006) SEEMS THAT YOUR CONCLUSION IS EXACTLY THIS.

This outcome, reinforce my idea about I Ching: a) seems it is useful to "predict" future outcomes; b) in questions more like "predictions," mathematical method seems more accurate

And of course, this outcome didn't "raise BIG issues that would threaten your faith" (Chris' words)

Best wishes

[lightofdarkness]

your struggling Jesed ;-)

Chris.

[white_dog]

Zelda, good news. Thanks for reporting back. Was curious how it was developing.

Patience and preparedness make a great team. I wouldn't lose either.

Bruce

[zeldiac]

Thanks for your responses to my update. I can't stop smiling because I'm happy!

Jesed to clarify dates as you asked. I received phone confirmation on 26th April that the letter had been typed on that date. It was posted to me on that date. It reached me the following day 27th April. Hope that helps regarding the 'tiger / snake' scenario.

Best wishes
Zelda

[femke]

Zelda, congratulations!!!

[peace]

I'm so happy for you.
What a trial this has been!

Rosalie