Taoist I Ching 101

[gene]

Hi everyone

Tried to do this under divination discussion but the new conversation button didn't come up.

Just a few general thoughts about the holographic image of the first two hexagrams of the I Ching. I say that because the third hexagram is where it really starts, and the first two hexagrams are the rest of the book in condensed form. The last two hexagrams are the changes of the book in condensed form.

Much of our problems as humans comes about first of all, because we are indeed human, and then, how our minds naturally and understandably perceive all form and reality in the context of duality. First there was the Wu Chi, or the supreme oneness. This is where all religion in its purest form counsels us to return to. Not so the fundamentalist aspects of religion because fundamentalism too is caught in the illusion of duality, especially as it relates to good and evil. But the universal consciousness, in its oneness, in some indefinable way, for some indefinable reason, divided itself. It didn't really divide itself, it is still one. And yet, in consciousness, it divided itself into two parts. The earth is unique in that it has both one sun and one moon to reflect that duality. Man is not necessarily unique, but he, as possibly other creatures, have a left and right side of the brain, which with proper synapsis, and neuron networking works together, but each doing its own function in its own way. As long as there is duality, there is an inside and an outside, and the mind naturally and understandably divides itself between inside and outside. The natural result of this is that even our science (at least until quantum theory, and even then for some time) sees objects as inner or outer, and sees them as pure objects, not a construct of the mind. one other way in which pure consciousness divides itself is between space and time. If we understood properly the relationship between space and time we would I believe, understand the nature of light, and why no matter how fast an object is moving from which the speed of light is recorded, the speed of light still reflects the same measurement. (counting the speed of movement of the platform). In the I Ching we find a portion of this concept in the first two hexagrams, and hexagram one reflects time, being yang, and hexagram two reflects space. The yin is receptive, and so, space receives the light that is always, and eternally present within it. The nature of the light in relationship to the nature of space gives us the permutations as they are found in the changing lines. Yin therefore becomes passive and receptive, and yang becomes pure force, as time cannot at least in our perception, be stopped.

Therefore, in one sense, yang represents the left hemisphere of the brain, and yin the right. Both have their place and purpose, and both must work together.

But to keep this from becoming a book, just a note to say, that in its pure form, there is no yang, and no yin, except in relationship to each other. And in that relationship, is the unified whole, which the mystics, Christian, Buddhist, or Taoists, have been telling us we must and will eventually return to. When we do though, guess what, the universe disappears, for how can there be a universe without duality?

And hexagram 30 speaks of a net, as it relates to light, since the trigram li means light. A light that reflects everywhere, and becomes a web, or a net, in which matter is created as a holographic image. Hexagram 31 brings us to the second portion of the book of changes, and reflects relationships.

More on this later,
Gene

[megabbobby]

hex 30---

i know that's i ching 101,but i never really got all that 'net imagery'stuff before

much obliged

[gene]

The following is a paraphrase of the first five verses of genesis in terms relative to quantum physics. In no way is it a translation of any original language.

In the beginning the higher powers separated themselves into creative and receptive energy.

And the receptive power was without form and thereby created a vacuum. And darkness was the abode of the receptive power. And the Spirit of the higher powers created a frequency change in the matrix of the energy field, which led to a filling of the vacuum with light.

And the frequency was light, and it filled the receptive darkness.

And creative awareness recognized that light was a powerful mode of expression. And the concept of light was separated from the concept of darkness.

And awareness recognized the light as creative, and the darkness was recognized as receptive. Thus did duality become a reality.


When the creative and the receptive force are together, without separation, there is a constant orgasmic release among the two powers. The same can be said about the two powers after separation, however, after separation, there is also the potential for conflict. One way of looking at the creative and receptive powers, is that of a position of high pressure and low pressure. Low pressure becomes like a vacuum, and the high pressure comes rushing in. Nature abhors a vacuum because within a vacuum, there is no potential except the potential to attract a counterbalancing force. In other words, without the integration of the two complementary forces, there is no possibility for orgasm, and therefore, no power, other than the power of attraction. Since the concept of oneness includes the concept of the uniting of the two elementary powers as one power, enveloped in orgasm, there is the ultimate unavoidable act of creation. Creation that is, of a child of the creator?

Which brings us to hexagram three.

Gene

[bradford_h]

Hi Gene-
Not to compete with what you've written, but for future reference, here's a piece of Chapetr 3 of the Huainanzi, translated by A. C. Graham in a monologue entitled Yin-Yang and the Nature of Correlative Thinking.

When Heaven and Earth were not yet shaped, it was amorphous, vague,
a blank, a blur; call it, therefore, The Primal Beginning. The Way
began in the tenuous and transparent, the tenuous and transparent
generated Space and Time, Space and Time generated the Ch'i. There
was a shoreline in the Ch'i; the clear and soaring dissipated to
become Heaven, the heavy and muddy congealed to become Earth. The
concentration of the clear and subtle is easy, the concretion of the
heavy and muddy is difficult; therefore Heaven was completed first
and Earth afterwards.
The superimposed quintessences of Heaven and Earth became the Yang
and the YIn, the concentrating quintessences of Yin and Yang became
the Four Seasons, the scattering quintessences of the Four Seasons
became the myriad creatures. The hot Ch'i of the accumulating Yang
generated fire, the quintessence of the Ch'i of fire became the sun;
the cold Ch'i of the accumulating Yin became water, the quintessence
of the Ch'i of water became the moon; the overflow of quintessences
of sun and moon became the stars. Heaven received the sun, moom and
stars, Earth received the showers of water and the dust and dirt.

[candid]

Pretty cool, Gene. Sounds quite alike to the text that Brad offered. I too like your net image.

[gene]

Thanks Candid and Brad

I appreciate all the comments on here. Usually no one comments on this kind of work. I'll try to get to more of this as soon as possible.

Oh, and the Tao Teh Ching also has some passages that sound a lot like this too. I'll try to incorporate that as I go along.

Gene

[gene]

In terms of the net?

The first book of the book of changes ends with the pairing of the 29th and 30th hexagrams. Just as hexagram one is yang and hexagram two is yin, so in 29 we have yang and in 30 we have yin. However, the roles seem to be reversed somewhat. For hexagram 29 is dark and mysterious, while 30 is bright and joyful. This can be in one sense a reminder to us that within any yang, lies a touch of yin, and within any yin, lies a touch of yang. Here too, we have the story of duality. The mysterious 29th hexagram, and the bright 30th. In 29 one must remain faithful to pass through the danger. Often this is something that must be done alone. It is often part of a lesson we learn, and indeed the universe teaches us how to deal with things. Here the ?Superior man carries on the business of teaching." Often it is only in our deepest and darkest moments that we can really come face to face with ourselves, and see ourselves for who we truly are. Hexagram 30 however, is no longer a time of aloneness but a time of congregating with others. We go through our deep moments. We go through our ?dark night of the soul.? We come out the other end, and we congregate. Another way of saying it is, we NETwork.

This duality is also expressed in the makeup of our brains. We have a left side and a right side, literally two brains that function in many ways as one but have their own uniquenesses. The left brain tends to separate and analyze, while the right brain tends to associate, and find relationships. In the old Startrek tv series we had the character of Spock, who was basically also emotionless, and we had the character bones, who always seemed to be emotionally embroiled in some way. The synthesizer of these two polar opposites was the Captain, James T Kirk, who integrated both sides to come up with something that was a greater than the sum of the two parts. There are positive yang traits, and negative yang traits. There are positive yin traits, and negative yin traits. The same thing is true in terms of masculine and feminine traits.

We see the concept of duality in yet another way. It is described to us in terms of the separation of the book of changes into two mini books. There first ends with Chapter 30, which tells us about relationships, and the first hexagram of the second book, hexagram 31 brings relationships down to a more human level, and goes from there.

This aspect of duality is also portrayed in the western sacred scriptures in the same way in that we have an old and a new testament. The old testament generally, and this is only a very general rule, not to be overly applied, describes the more masculine concept of a godhead, with a primary emphasis on justice, judgment, and penalties for violating the law, while the new testament, as a rule, on the surface at least, describes man?s relationship to a loving, caring, nurturing type of godhead that answers our prayers, and loves his children regardless, for the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

But the net has another meaning as well. Not only in terms of relationships, but in terms of the crisscrossing (see line 1, Wilhelm/Baynes) of the matrix or energy field that the universe is composed of . The Chinese have a saying that ?the wave of a hand changes particles throughout the universe, and it does so immediately.? In other words, there is no action without a counteraction. Or, we might say, everything is related to everything else. And as soon as you change one thing, it automatically changes everything connected to it (which is everything). This is an evening out process, partially described in hexagram 15 where, if the mountain is too high, it is brought down. If the earth is too low, it is raised. It is like a high potential area, rushing to a low potential. The tendency of the universe is to make things even, just as water seeks its own level.


Gene

[candid]

Is this 'net' image expressed in any one particular Chinese word/ideogram?

[candid]

I guess that's 30: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/hex30.gif

Gene, does the bird flying into the net fit into your imagery? If so, what represents the bird, or, what does the bird represent in your analogy?

[sunpuerh]

Dear Gene, Megabobby and Candid and all,

Hexagram 30 by its imagery is a mytical net that when thrown across the Invisible World reveals the future. it is the hexagram of divination and diviners, hence the name Clarity as the hexagram signifies clarity of mind, intellect and reasoning abilities. In ancient times, the hexagram stood for war and weapons (as in military strategy through divination), high spiritual and intellectual attainment). (taken mostly from Wilhelm Baynes, Book III, the commentaries.

[prynne]

Nets are made of knots...knots are only possible in a physics of three dimensions...3-0...our reality. Light caught in the net of time? Hex 30?

[sunpuerh]

Knots are also associated with Li. Historically knots have mystical implications: at every chakra there are knots of chi on both sides. Untying these knots through spiritual practice is the way to immortality.

Knots may be good or bad (see the interesting book The Shipping News) and also Quipus and Withches Knots.

for Prynne: The idea is interesting but the "net of Li" catches what is hidden and by clinging to it, covers it with light and reveals it (the future). As a Confucian idea, Li also clings to what is right and reveals it.

See:http://fortunecity.com/business/influence/1805/the_page_of_li__the_middle_daughter.htm

[prynne]

Yes.

[gene]

Hexagram one and two are the only two pure hexagrams. It is when the yin and the yang unite that we have the intermingling of the energies, and the ten thousand things are created. But since the ten thousand things are only yin and yang energy then they don?t really exist in physical form, except in the sense of illusion.

Forgive me for speaking blasphemy, but it is necessary to do so to make the point. Ultimately there is no God up in the heavens who looks down on us and sends us blessings. Ultimately is there neither a Satan who is constantly trying to harm mankind. Therefore there is no conspiracy and no evil in the world. As long as we as humans however, are in the world, we exist in the realm of duality. Instead of a pure force that consists of yin and yang as one complementary whole, we have a division, a separation of yin and yang which manifests itself as polarity. With polarity, there is up and down, there is forward and back. There is future and there is past. And there is good and evil. But, you might contend. You just said there is no god and no evil. Yes, but when the one pure neutral force of the universe is divided, it divides itself in every way. Good becomes unity and evil becomes separation. Since there is in reality no separation, there is no evil, only good. But the neutral force of God is in itself divided into halves and becomes a positive and a negative. In separation there is darkness as well as light. In separation we judge in our individual minds that which is good and that which is evil.

?But of the tree of the knowledge of duality thou shalt not partake, for in the day that ye partake, thou shalt surely attain the illusion of separation?? Notice that in these verses of Genesis, the woman has not been created yet, only the man. For it was not until the partaking of the illusion of separation could there be any male and female. (However, the fruit wasn?t actually eaten until after the separation of male and female, but the story is told in this way to give further hint of the secret, esoteric science here.)

So Adam and Eve partake of the illusion, and felt themselves separate from God. The first step after separation was to hide from God. Enter the devil. Was he really a devil? No. Upon separation there comes a little situation called the Ego. The universal Ego. For in separation or division, there must be a double, and in fact, a polar opposite. (I capitalize Ego, because I am talking about the universal Ego. The ego that sees itself as separate, and therefore tries to hide from God, and therefore takes many different forms, but ultimately is all the same ego, because separation itself is an illusion. This is the real devil, not some unique personality in the heavens opposed to God?s will, but the natural expression of the Ego of mankind, who has fallen into the illusion of separation, and feels wrongly that he has sinned by separating, therefore hiding from God.

After hexagram one and two, all of the following hexagrams have an element of imbalance, except hexagram 63 and 64, and even in 64, all the lines are in their improper places. Hence, as in Stephen Karcher?s mode, we have pairs, because ultimately all things, physical and/or nonphysical must balance. The even numbered hexagrams give balance to the odd, and vice versa, and the book as a whole balances out the changes, and indeed, the entire universe, physical and nonphysical manifestation.

[sunpuerh]

Gene: I like your thoughtful writings but I would add we must see hexagrams 1 and 2 as a process of interaction not separate entities:

This article written by the Sabian Master and member of some I Ching lists, Gene Johnson:

Western civilization is based on the Four
While the Chinese is on the Five.


The Western Number Four logic system:
The number four is the key number of geometry and mathematics, sciences which are the foundation of western civilization. The four is the progression from a dichotomy
(perception of simple contrasts, 'this' and 'that' ) to the double dichotomy ( 2 X 2 ) which produces the grid, the matrix for pattern awareness, cognition. Marc Jones in his Fundamentals of Number Significance, says:
"Multiplied by itself the TWO produces the grid that is perhaps the most common basis for diagramming and understanding all structuring, either by nature or by man in an imitation of natural development of any solid or tangible sort...The symbolization of pure number presents the FOUR as the case of the service to each other of two systems of coordinates such as time and position. "
Jones goes on to say " The FOUR always identifies a relationship in variation of occasion in connection with function, and this in practical everyday fact is what always can be seen to be the building operations or the simple maintenance responsibility through the whole spread of nature at large....the development and perfection of the cooperation between purpose and potential leading to the ends thus sought is the never deviating concern of any TWO emphasis . Thus in numerology it is the FOUR that is the fundamental fabricator in every sense of the term"

The Eastern Logic system of the number 5:
Jones says "the FIVE reveals the basic establishment of selfhood in its utterly ecstatic maintenance of an innate poise in the total context of all the swirling convergence's of reality of each special moment ...He adapts the sheer liquidity of the universe of flux to the ends in view of his own." Anyone who has ever attempted to discover the interface between the western "four elements" and the Chinese "five elements" will have an immediate appreciation of the nuances of the FOUR and FIVE and the ramification these have had on shaping the two cultures.
As has been noted oriental science/philosophy, particularly the Chinese, attends primarily to an "energy process' perspective while in the west the emphasis is on the manipulation of matter. Consequently the western "four elements" describe a fundamentally functional/structural reality. The Chinese "five elements", on the other hand, have nothing "substantial" about them at all, but are instead essentially "moving agents".

{This is how I would see hexagrams 1 and 2 - always moving, interacting, not static entities except in one's Western imagination}

Jones goes on to say: Another characteristic of the attitude of the FIVE is in its perception of CAUSE. Because the FOUR can plot everything, i.e., everything in its limited universe, it does not give reality to anything it can't connect with a cause. The FIVE, however, is at home in the swirling convergence's of reality and therefore does not waste a lot of energy attempting to sharply delineate chains of cause and effect. This is expressed by Buddha's doctrine of "interdependent origination" - any effect is the product of such a vast multitude of interdependent causes it is impossible to identify a given chain of causes with any certainty. (so hexagram 1 cannot exist without hexagram 2) they are totally interdependent energies.

[sunpuerh]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I disagreed with you but was just adding to what you said.


My mistake below:
"Gene: I like your thoughtful writings BUT I would add we must see hexagrams 1 and 2 as a process of interaction not separate entities:"

I mean, I meant to omit the 'BUT' to 'AND'

You have such a good hold on Taoist thought, I think. Best, Mary

[sunpuerh]

Dear Candid: the bird meant to snare or catch. As an analogy from WB when hunting with nets for game, it was the custom to allow part of the net to remain open, giving the game a chance and perhaps an early sense of respect for our ecosystem. I have seen a very early discussion of the wisdom of keeping the mesh large enough to allow the young to escape.
Also the size of the mesh in spiritual terms meant that a person's spiritual destiny was decided by whether or not one was 'caught' in the net, especially the net of hexagram 30, meaning by destiny a diviner of the Yi.

Heard you were leaving, you're always welcome around my way.
Mary

[gene]

Hi Mary

I appreciate the input. And on the subject, yes, a process of integration. The entire book of changes is about how that process became separated in effect, and how it unites all back together again. In the process of the interaction of yin and yang, all things are created. In perfect union, balance, and harmony, there is naught but one neutral force with yin and yang perfectly balanced so that there is no separation, not even the recognition of a polar opposite. As long as we have the recognition, we have a phenomenal world that imbalances itself in relationship to the parts but not to the whole, and in so doing so is constantly attempting to rebalance itself, hence we have the changes.

Just a nutshell view.

Thanks,
Gene

[gene]

In any given hexagram the ruling line is usually #5. There are exceptions to this as we look at the nature of a hexagram. Hexagram one is no exception to this. When the fifth line changes we have hexagram #14. Hexagram one is a hexagram of pure potential. The various lines tell us when and how to access and/or utilize that potential. Line five tells us the time is now. As Stephen Karcher said, This begins a fertile time. When yin and yang integrate there is the manifestation of all that exists in the phenomenal universe. This gives us, ?possession in great measure.? Since hexagram 14 is imbalanced, it shows us that the universe can only be balanced against the backdrop of a non material consciousness. The integration of the two forces leads us to an abundance of wealth and a universe full of material possessions. Just one drop of yin in a field of yang creates manifestation. First, ?One becomes two, then two becomes three, and three becomes the 10,000 things.?

In order for hexagram fourteen to be balanced, it needs to associate with hexagram 13. Hexagram 14 is about material, and other possessions, hexagram 13 is about our interaction with and relationship to the world of phenomenon. Since in the world of phenomenon we see material objects, as appearing to be, by the illusion of separation , separate from ourselves, therefore there becomes a natural tendency to compete for the goods and services. As long as we have this illusion, in one sense or another, we can compare ourselves with line 3 of hexagram 13. ?He hides weapons in the thicket.? For just as we desire goods and services in the same way that others desire them, we perceive in others the same competitive desire that we ourselves have. We project out onto others our own fears and strivings. As hexagram 38 line 6 says, ?First he bends the bow, then he loosens the bow. We see our companions as having the cravings and misgivings that we ourselves have and project them out into the universe. It is only when we come to understand the basis of our misgivings and misunderstandings, that we can loosen the bow, and as in hexagram 13 line 4, you cannot control or attack. It is through our understanding of the proper basis for relationships that we create a perfect world in which harmony is the norm.

Gene

[sunpuerh]

Dear Gene: Another layer of meaning for Hexagrams 1:5 = 14 is the exact process of obtaining immortality. The two dragons (one of heaven swirling counterclockwise and earth, spinning clockwise) there interact and the earth dragon must change its spin(through inner alchemy to heavenward (counterclockwise). they ascend heavenwards together (both the earth and heavenly souls of the person - it can be done voluntarily in one's life thereby leaving only an earthly shell) The resulting Hexagram 14, is that fire going to heaven (immortality), also representing at the top line a great teacher or immortal.

sun

[gene]

Hi Mary

I agree with you. I haven't got to this aspect of it yet, and I'll have to admit, I didn't understand these lines exactly the way you describe them, but they do fit in with the overall view of my cosmology. I have talked about this types of things just a little bit in the past, but it takes a lot of behind the scenes knowledge to understand the I Ching in this way, and I have never found a book that describes these things in any depth. Hopefully, I will be able to touch on this subject more later.

Thanks for this input. This is really helpful.
Gene

[candid]

Mary,

Sort of like fishing with a barb-less hook. 30 as sportsmanship. Interesting thought. You know the rabbits out here either willingly offer themselves as food or they are suicidal. Haven't figured them out yet. Probably nature's bounty. The coyotes don't seem to mind.

Thank you kindly for your invitation. I'm monogamous to a fault. LOL ..silly, I know. We'll see how it goes. Thank you.

[jte]

Mary, above you wrote:

"The two dragons ... interact and ... they ascend heavenwards together ... The resulting Hexagram 14, is that fire going to heaven ... a great teacher or immortal. "

Out of curiosity, how would one know if such a dragon is around and interacting with a person? Are there indicators? And how would one go about communicating/interacting with the dragon from above and/or "doing" the internal alchemy?

This might require a longish answer, but I'm interested. Perhaps you could point me to a reference or something?

- Jeff

[rinda]

Sounds a lot like kundalini... ??

Rinda

[sparhawk]

Rinda, now that you mentioned kundalini, ahem, did you notice you have an androgynous tree in your backyard? Of course, you've mustn't known about that... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Geeze, I'm telling this to a therapist...

Luis

[rinda]

Luis, you sweet man! you noticed! Many leaves have fallen - compost for new life, but the tree is strong and beautiful.

Rinda

[gene]

Jeff

Since there hasn't yet been any answer to your question...

This is not a matter of dragon's flying around. The dragon is a symbol for life force, or energy, or, as yoda would put it, the force. It is always around. The trick is to augment it and this is done through certain spiritual practices, developing within one's self a force, or energy, that the Chinese call chi, or qi.

Every line, or verse, in the I Ching can be understood on many different levels. In one sense, the flying dragon can refer to one's life force becoming increasingly activated, til it rises from the lower tan tien, an area that can be ruffly translated as the second chakra,and activates the upper tan tien, which is the combined pineal and pituitary gland unitary system. This roughly translates into, as Rinda said, Kundalini energy.

More on this later,
Gene

[jte]

Thanks, Gene, I'd be interested to at least have a look. And no, I don't take dragon literally, at least not in terms of a physical entity.

- Jeff

[sunpuerh]

Oh lordy Jeff, sorry for not answering your question-this has been a cooking and family week-american Thanksgiving. I will probably give a short answer and then answer with more detail. I always ask about spiritual teachers: 14:6 is the best reading, then you know that person is an authentic dragon (read WB) Ni always says that one should engage in selfless giving and the immortals will come to one who is ready (but as you can see above, there are few dragons around)Its an open-up-your-eyes sort of thing. Often this 'dragon' will touch you clairvoyantly but also beware that other less worthy types may have this ability. In this you can depend on the Yi to tell you if the teacher is worthy. Use the soft left hand, keep open, kind and compassionate-then you will 'sense' immediately when a dragon is around. Actually I think the immortals often are pounding on the door. saying "wake up! there are great ideas awaiting your recognition of them!"

If you want to hear more, let me know. Mary

[jte]

Sure, Mary, I'd be interested in hearing more. If you like, send an email - up to you. Thanks and hope you had a great T-day!

- Jeff

[sunpuerh]

Ancient Taoist adepts often had roadside
inns, especially along the Silk Road waiting for the worthy seeker to join and learn with them

Thomas Cleary says also that the ancient women adepts of sexual alchemy (my theory is that they were descended from the many Fu-the ancient woman diviner clan described by Eva Wong in her book Taoism since the Silk Road goes for a time along the Wei River in that area of the ancient I Ching). These woman, probably in very ordinary jobs were also looking for worthy men to teach the arts of bliss (tantra or kundalini). Cleary says that these women became deified as the consorts of the Buddhas, the consorts of Manjushri (who is connected with northwestern China, for example) and Quan Yin also finds herself as a consort of Avaloketeshavara, I never can spell the name, the Buddha of compassion.
Yet just as tourists today don't really tune into a place and they fail to see the magic around them. The Taoists had a formal school called something like "wandering around in search of lofty teachers" It makes you think there are additional layers of meaning to hexagram 56.

Any seeker of these deeper meanings or in search of a worthy teacher would do well to learn deep meditation techniques. When you are able to enter the Timeless Realm you are making a grand entrance into the area where immortals dwell.

Someone asked me did I think there were immortals actually actively involved with the I Ching today. Well, of course!

[sunpuerh]

I didn't quite get it across that the roadside inns did not openly let any traveler know they were great teachers there waiting, in a sense, for the student that was ready - it was up to the wanderer to know this, see the subtle signs, understand and appreciate the great gift of having a truly great teacher and understand the significance it has.

Of course, then the second part begins-demonstrating humility and willingness to learn and serve the teacher and the teacher accepting the student. A good book discussing this relationship is Seven Taoist Masters by Eva Wong.

In meditation class I sometimes see a newbie complaining that they have to drive too far for the class and I think of those that braved hostile tribes, dangerous mountain passes, far lands and other such sacrifice to come to the teacher.

Part of Tibetan chant deals with this event by saying "now my life has great meaning, my human life has borne great fruit..."

Sun

[jte]

Thanks for the input, I'll take a look at Eva Wong's book. :-)

- Jeff

[gene]

Last time I had a chance to talk about anything we were talking about the energy of the immortals in a sense, and I hope to touch on that some. However, since I am not at this time an immortal, the bulk of my discussion will have to be somewhat more mundane.

Normally in divination we look at the judgment on the changing line, or if none, on the hexagram as a whole, to receive our answer. In Taoist I Ching, this is not so prevalent. In Taoist I Ching, we tend to look more at the energy, at the meaning of the energy described in the trigrams. To find the type of energy of the 8 trigrams you might want to look at Mary?s website. Last time I looked she had listed the energies of the eight trigrams, and how each trigram is related to the five elements. There is a destruction, and an augmenting cycle for each of the five elements. In Tai Chi Chuan, the 8 trigrams, corresponding with the 8 directions, and the 5 elements combine to make up the 13 basic postures. If I get a chance I will deal with this later. For now however, we will just talk about energy flowing from high pressure areas to low pressure. In order to augment the naturally flowing energy field in the body, it is necessary to create a high pressure area of chi, and a low pressure. We do this to promote energy, or chi from the lower dan tien, near the naval, to the pineal/pituitary gland. This is tantric yoga. However, in Chinese Chi Kung, the energy doesn?t just flow up, like kundalini has been described, but flows in a circular pattern from the lower dan tien to the upper dan tien, and then back down again. In time a spiritual embryo is formed, and then that spiritual baby is nourished, and eventually the energy flows not only within our body, but up into the fourth/fifth dimensional higher self? And this gets a little too involved to go on with it right now. But this is a spiraling energy that ascends, and creates what might be called the second birth.

Since it is almost Christmas time, (and I did talk about this some last year too). This is the real meaning of the second birth that the Christians fundamentalists describe as a matter of being saved and believing in Jesus. The allegory is about the real second birth, making one an immortal, it has little or nothing to do with being saved from our sins.

As things now stand, I am getting off track of going onto hexagram 3 which I originally planned. This is a little diversion. And there is one more diversion, as I am going to talk about hexagram 15 and 16 momentarily. In hexagram 15, both trigrams are of the element of earth. Earth has a tendency to be stable. Therefore, hexagrams that have significant earth element in them, tend to favor a standing still of sorts. The earth trigram tends to be more receptive, the mountain trigram more arresting. But neither one is a big mover and shaker. The mountain however, usually rises above the earth, where earth tends to sink down. In 23 the earth beneath collapses and the mountain tumbles. In 15 the mountain has already tumbled. And here we have a picture of sorts of the tendency of energy to flow from high pressure to low. In so doing, the energy evens out. The mountain becoming one with the earth loses some of its height, and the earth is raised somewhat. As such we see an example of polarity running through even this hexagram, but here the sine wave is evened out though only temporarily. This is the tendency of the universe to always even itself out. Water seeks its own level. So does supply and demand. Energy always flows from excess to deficiency. Much could be said of this and more will be said later. This is getting too long however, suffice it to say right now, that it is probably not by accident that this hexagram with hexagram 16 is right in the middle of the first book of the book of changes, because in the middle we see the evening out. I believe it is hexagram 47 and 48 that are in the middle of the second book.

Later, hopefully, we can get into the phenomenon of the sine wave, and how a sine wave dominates all material existence, with its high point and its low point being the energy flowing from excess to deficiency, and polarity expressing itself in positive and negative throughout the book of changes, being discreetly pointed to in many, many ways, including the pairing of the hexagrams.

More later,
Gene

[jte]

"This is the real meaning of the second birth ... making one an immortal, it has little or nothing to do with being saved from our sins. '

Gene: Not that I know anything about this stuff, because really I don't - but if it's your higher self that gets nourished/developed, doesn't that entail ridding yourself of evil and other things that aren't, well, "higher"? Just wondering...

- Jeff

[rinda]

hmmm... if I may?

Darkness is real in that we think we see it and experience it. When we turn on a light, or start a fire it melts away because it is not real in itself, rather it is the absence of perception of light.

Rinda

[martin]

There is this story about the darkness complaining to God because the sun was always chasing it away.
God invited the sun and asked, why are you so mean to the darkness, why are you chasing it away?

And the sun said, but Lord, how could I have been mean to the darkness?
I didn't even know that it exists. I have never SEEN the darkness.

[gene]

Jeff

There is a natural expursion of, shall we call it the darkness? as one follows the pathway. The true meaning of Christianity does the same thing. Jesus and the Buddha weren't so far apart in their message. The key here is that until one has done a certain amount of work on him/herself, there is no attainment to the true path anyway, one will never find it. In hexagram 36 the superior man hides his true light yet still shines, but just like an aura, it is not truly noticed until the student is ready to perceive it.

More on this later,
Gene

[gene]

Nothing works in a vacuum. The very nature of the vacuum is to suck something into it to fill it. Energy cannot withstand imbalance in the long term. The very nature of the cosmos shows us this with the constellation of Libra. This constellation balances everything out in the end. Although in human terms it often takes a great deal of time to do this, and thus does not always seem apparent because balancing does not necessarily happen in one lifetime, nevertheless the nature of all aspects of the cosmos is to balance itself. One does not see this if one believes in dead materialism. However, the days of scientific materialism are quickly coming to an end, and mankind will soon be forced to see the truth, whether he/she wants to or not. This is the basis for karma. Karma is a balancing act pure and simple. We do reap what we sow, as a matter of rule, although karma in some instances can be transcended, and does not necessarily mean an eye for an eye, nevertheless it does operate. And operate it must since the universe in all aspects, is a living organism. Hexagram 15 gives us a hint of this principle.

The humble one considers no one beneath him/her, nor does he/she consider anyone better. That does not mean talents and abilities are not recognized. It simply means that each person, each individual, indeed each entity within the cosmos has its own place and purpose in life. This is true because all comes from the one source. The wise person understands that there is a power higher than him/herself, and this power is not to be toyed with. There are certain principles that govern the regulation of the universe. It is only by being connected to that one source that we have an inner power that gives us access to life?s riches. The ego may rule in all of us to a certain degree, and with our ego we may at times gain power and glory, but the power and the glory is fleeting, as the ego does not recognize a higher power than itself. The ego will either make us feel superior to others, in which case it is easy to justify tyranny against our fellow man, or it will make us feel inferior, in which case we may develop victim complexes. But the universal spirit does not judge. It does not say to the other that it has a greater purpose, or it is better or higher than any other aspect of life.

When one is drawing upon the higher power by the use of modesty, he/she gains an infinite power described in hexagram 16 depicted by the child riding the elephant in joyousness. The elephant can trample on the child at any time, but does not do so, because it has chosen to accept the child?s joy, and do the bidding of the child. The child can be described as our innocence, our child like simplicity and joy, and the conscious mind. The elephant can be described as that universal power that is so willing to come to our aid when we call upon it with the right attitude, the proper respect, and the willingness to let the subconscious do the work.

Gene

[gene]

In hexagram 20 we review our lives. When we are young, we do not think of such things. We tend to live for the moment and seek the pleasures of the moment. As we grow older we gain a more sober outlook on life, and as such the older we grow, the more we are inclined to look back over our lives and see our mistakes.

When I mention that the second birth has little or nothing to do with believing in Jesus and being saved from our sins I really only mean that in the context of an easy believism that is prevalent nowdays in the fundamentalist churches. There is nothing wrong with having a conversion per se. There is danger in thinking that it stops there, and there is nothing more to do except live a good life.

When I speak of nourishing the higher self, I am only suggesting that in the sense of energy flowing, rising into the heavens. The higher self is already there, but the spiritual embryo is formed in the lower Dan Tien, and as it is nourished, it takes on a life of its own, and its energy rises up to the higher self. I recommend some of the books by Mantak Chia for a more exalted review of how energy, chi, works.

In hexagram 44 we have a description of contact. On a more mundane level, this has to do with being careful who we might pick for a partner, among other things. In Taoist I Ching, I believe this has far more to do with yin and yang energy meeting, and becoming one. This is a positive thing, not a negative. Taoist theories on Chi describe it as an energy that flows through what is called the microcosmic orbit, up the yang vessel in the spine, and down the yin vessel in the front of the body. However, for some purposes, I suspect that both yang and yin energy rises and meets in the pineal and/or pituitary gland, when this energy has been raised to a high level, it creates an aura like a halo that is often depicted around saints heads in pictures of the Jesus and/or the disciples. This can happen when we are very deeply in a meditation, and focusing very strongly on one thing. This has happened to me in the past before I had any idea what it was. I don't know if there were a glow that anyone else could see, but I know my whole brain just flooded with light, and it was very astonishing. This has not occurred again for me in several years. But first hand experience convinces one of the reality of it.

Gene

[megabbobby]

that's pretty interesting...
what do you think is the difference in consciousness in a person with a spiritual embryo?

[megabbobby]

wait..you said it was hex 16
anyways...

[gene]

Megabobby

All the hexagrams have indirectly to do with the spiritual embryo, I wasn't referring to hexagram 16 in that way, necessarily. The main reason for bringing up the spiritual embryo is in relationship to what Mary had posted.

Any hexagram can relate to this in a way, but I only have limited knowledge on it as I have never found any books that discuss this in any depth. Thomas Cleary wrote a book on Taoist I Ching, but it only goes so far. I have to really delve into this stuff, and find information from other sources to really document this. I am not spiritually reborn myself in this sense, therefore I can only speak in theory. My original purpose in starting this thread was on a different track, but as I go on, and I discover new things, I write down notes on it, mull it over, find the common thread, and create a story about it.

More later,
Gene

[gene]

I just started another discussion on this, and just as I was about to finish up, we had a power failure, so maybe it isn't meant for right now. I will try to add to this later.

Gene

[gene]

Now the birth of Jesus was on this wise?

All mystical saviors in mythology were born in caves or mangers because the story is a symbol of the second birth, or the birth of the spiritual embryo. The cave is the lower dan tien, which in Chinese means, among other things, field of elixer. This is in many ways, the central point of the body. It is the point where we take the hot red fire energy of the heart, (love and compassion), combine it with the cold, blue water energy of the kidneys, (sexual power) then add the warm moist energy of the liver, wood, green, and the cool dry energy of the lungs, metal, white, and finally combine the energy of the spleen, earth, yellow, and fuse them together in the lower dan tien. This practice is called the fusion of the five elements.

Moving along, we find in hexagram 15 our proper attitude and relationship to the universe as a whole. You may call it God if you wish, because to some people they are one and the same thing. In order to draw the energy of the universe into ourselves, we must, just as one would court a lady, show our love and affection for the universe. It may seem silly until you understand that the universe is a living, breathing, consciousness. So book two starts out with a hexagram that teaches us the proper means in which to bring about that relationship. When we bring about that relationship we have what is called ?The Mystical Marriage,? which is described somewhat in 31 and 32, and more specifically in 53 and 54. With that marriage, man and the universe become one, conscious and subconscious are also one. And one attains the power of the elephant, the largest of all beasts.
When the second and fifth lines of hexagram 54 change, which is the marriage of the yin with the yang, we have 17, following, or vice versa, the second and fifth line change to 54. In 17 we are counseled to yield to a strong attraction. And that is exactly what the universe does for us when we woo it. Then we know the answer to Einstein?s question, is the universe benign, or malignant?

Gene

[megabbobby]

why do you call the 2 and 5 line change the 'marriage of the yin and yang' ?
in 54.

when performing the fusion of the five elements....thats when people do the tai chi stretches and such for different ways of blending the physical and mental

you seem to be a big advocate of that...
can you really tell the difference in consciousness compared with and without the planned physical regime?

[gene]

Megabobby

In any hexagram, the second and fifth lines are both central to their respective trigrams. They follow the law of correspondence. When the fifth line is yang and the second yin you have a proper match. This happens in hexagram 17. In hexagram 54 line 5 is yin and line 2 is yang. That is why it is said she marries beneath her station. Hexagram 11 has a very similar connotation. Hexagram 54 is the 11th from the last, 11 is the eleventh. Hexagram 54 is about the maiden's marriage. That is where I get the concept of the marriage of yin and yang. When one line is yang and its corresponding line yin, there is a match of sorts, in any hexagram. The purest hexagram is 63, yet because of the nature of change, and the vibration of the building blocks of the universe, 63 cannot maintain its perfection, and therefore 63 ultimately loses its balance. 63 is water above fire. The proper amount of water, from the kidneys, the sexual essence, is balanced with the proper amount of fire, from the heart, the love and compassion essence. Together they produce steam, or chi, energy. Too much water will spill over and put the fire out. Too much fire will evaporate all the water. It takes the human element, hexagram 18 to maintain the balance (hexagram 15) so that the spoiling of hexagram 18 does not take place. A similar concept is discussed in hexagram 50, where the fire depends on wood for fuel, and the fire keeps burning. This burning of the fuel cooks the food, the spiritual essence, and transforms it into something new and beneficial.

Tai Chi exercises can help with this process.

I am not quite sure what you mean by the planned physical regime.

Gene

[gene]

In the Bible the mystical marriage is described as the marriage at Cana, where Jesus turns the water into wine. Historically, this may have been a record of Jesus's own marriage to Mary Magdalene. However, regardless of any historical foundation or lack thereof, the story describes the mystical marriage of the subconscious mind with the conscious. When this marriage takes place, the water is turned to wine. In other words, the water (which is an allegory for chi, or, in this case more likely blood, is transformed into a higher essence of chi. (Remember the ancient commandment, "But the blood of any animal ye shall not eat, for the life is in the blood." Sperm is produced from blood, and sperm is transformed into chi.) Wine is often a biblical symbol for a spiritual experience. The drunkenness of Noah, for example is an example of being in a higher spiritual state of awareness, that might seem like foolishness to unenlightened people.

Gene

[megabbobby]

now...about the 'law of correspondences'

you know, rules were made to be broken

haha..anyways
you said a good yin line in second blends with a yang in fifth---now in 11 it is yang in 2 and yin in 5...that is supposed to be good intercourse--
what you're saying sounds backwards to that


34 19 etc--they seem like they got flow
(Coming up)

[gene]

I have some things written up on my home computer about this, but right now I can't use it. I just moved and my mouse is missing, and I don't have a land line. Hopefully these problems will be corrected soon. In the meantime, hopefully I can do a little bit here and there.

Gene

[gene]

I think what I have written on my home computer relates to yin in fifth and yang in second, but when I can get going, I will check.

Anyway...I have no I Ching books with me right now, but in a reading just the other day, I received hexagram 3 with lines two and five changing...Well, everyone knows this hexagram is about birth, not about marriage, right? Well, yeah, and nope...After all a marriage is in itself a birth right? A birth of a union, etc. In the gospels we have the story of the birth of Jesus, which in one sense can be an allegory of the second birth, or the spiritual birth, in another sense, can be an allegory of the first birth, and the wedding at Cana the second birth. Since hexagram three has to do with difficulties in the beginning, so too can the getting together of the second and the fifth line find themselves in difficulties. The wedding is delayed because of difficulties, (and so can a birth be delayed due to difficulties) Sometimes in a reading like this there can be a situation where, since there is distance between the second and fifth line, there is a problem getting together with the right person. The first line being yang, is close to the second, and has a secondary relationship to the second line. Therefore, the second line may think of a relationship with the first because the first line is close by, and there are fewer difficulties. However, I think it is the fourth line, says something about waiting for the right time? I need my books right now. This is similar to the fourth line in hexagram 54. Once the difficulties have been overcome, one finds the right partner, and the distance is overcome. Here line five is yang and line 2 is yin.

If you look at Chris Lofting's work, he describes the second and fifth line as being the mediating lines to bring about the relating hexagram. In hexagram three, when the second and fifth lines change, we change to hexagram 19. The second and fifth lines mediate the change to an approach to and/or with one another.

Hopefully soon I can get into hexagram 4 which is paired with three, and is the inverse of 3. Here we have a yang second line and a yin fifth. Note that the second line of hexagram 4 relates to marriage to a certain extent also. Then note, when the second and fifth line change, we have hexagram 20, which is paired with 19. When a marriage occurs, further watching, (for the right partner) stops. (trigram ken, mountain - hex 20 is the mountain with lines doubled) Well, anyway, hopefully it stops. It may not so much in modern society.

Note the relationship between hexagram 4 and twenty. Both are about teaching.

More later
Gene

[gene]

One more thing. It is said that the wise person takes the central path. That is why the second and fifth line are on the whole more propitious than the others. In hexagram one we have excess. In hexagram two we have deficiency. And in the first line of a trigram, (includes the fourth of a hexagram) we have deficiency. The line has not stabilized as yet. Actions taken are often premature. In the third line we have excess. the line has gone too far. We can see this especially in the sixth line of hexagrams where the action has gone "outside the affairs of humanity." The second and fifth lines mediate between these extremes. That's why marriages, or any action works best with the second and fifth line, rather than first and fourth, or third and sixth.

Gene

[gene]

And also, as hexagram 23 is the nuclear of hexagram 3, the second and fifth line must strip away the interfering lines, for example, line two must strip away line one who is not the best partner for her, and line 5 must strip away the fourth and sixth line who are not the right partners for him.

Gene

[megabbobby]

yeah, i wrote a post trying to correct myself on the line 2/5 issue but it didnt print for some reason

[gene]

Back to hexagram 15 for just a moment. One of the esoteric meanings of mountain, (k'en trigram) is door, or gateway. In hexagram 15 we have the inner door, (lower trigram) leading to the outer trigram of receptiveness, or acceptance. This acceptance acquiesces whether there is high or low, good or bad, or any of the polarities. In the same way must we learn to let go of our judgments and accept good or bad just as it is. Just a thought to add before I forget my thought.

Gene

[martin]

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Just a thought to add before I forget my thought<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[gene]

Next on the list is hexagram 61 and hexagram 50 because, (another diversion) hexagram 61 is where we find the law of attraction in the sense that like attracts like. Here is the hexagram that shows that what we find in the outside world is a reflection of that which is within us. The law of equal vibrations.

In hexagram 50 we have the harmony or lack thereof of fate and how we live our life.

More on this after the holidays.
Gene

[gene]

And what Mary is talking about above regarding the inns along the sacred road corresponds with the Greek idea of sacred prostitution in the temples. Historians believe that Mary Magdalene was one of these sacred prostitutes. This relates to sacred sexual alchemy and the combining of yin and yang in its proper forms to create a greater whole.

The story of the wise men who came to give the baby Jesus gifts is also a story of those souls who have become adequately prepared mentally, emotionally and spiritually, to find the "inn" along the scarlet road. They are the ones who are ready for the teacher.

"When the student is ready, the master will appear." And, vice versa, "when the master is ready, the student will appear."

Gene

[gene]

Oh, and yes, Mary, you know very well, there are additional layers of meaning to hexagram 56, as with all the hexagrams.

In another way, there are always those who are wondering around from teacher to teacher, taking a little bit here, a little bit there, but never waiting around long enough to get the essence of the teaching, only the outer shell. When they do this, their nest, (level of comprehension) burns down. In the Star Wars series, we see Anakim Skywalker, who becomes Darth Vader, often rushing in where angels fear to tread, and not willing to totally submit himself to a true master. Like hexagram 4, he places himself above his master, thinks that he has greater understanding than he truly does, and as a result he is enticed by the dark side. There is an old saying, "a rolling stone gathers no moss."

On the other hand, it may be necessary to keep travelling until one finds a true teacher that is right for the student. When he does this, "then he attains property, (teachings that have true value) and an ax. (The ability to protect himself). The anologies can go on forever.

Yes, my friends, there is a Santa Claus
Gene

[gene]

In all the hexagrams and line of the I Ching there are inner meanings as well as outer. For example, the bed that we rest upon in hexagram 23 can be the underlying philosophy that we unconsciously rely on as a road map of reality. When that roadmap is incorrect, or is not the real territory, then somewhere along our pathway we are faced with something that forces us to "strip away" our illusions. Like the Tower card in the Tarot, we can suddenly become enlightened, shall we say, in the sense that we are suddenly struck with the unreality of our dream. This is often disconcerting, but in a way, it should be a cause for rejoicing. The same principle was taught by Jesus when he told us not to build our house upon the sand. (The illusion of cold dead materialism), but on the solid ground, (of truth regarding the aliveness and consciousness of the universe, which in understanding, one attains the kingdom of heaven.)

When we "wait in the mud" (hex 5)it can be an allegory of being mired down (hex 51 line 4) in cloudy, and confused thinking. It is like a dark cloud that covers everything, and we cannot see through to the sunshine. (hexagram 55)

We can be "oppressed in a golden carriage." Even when we think we have it all, we find it is not satisfactory, it does not bring us true peace. Material comforts and goods still do not satisfy the needs of the soul.

Enough for now.
Gene

[sunpuerh]

Dear Gene, Megabobby and all: I think in the Yi we are experiencing the layer of meaning in Hexagram 56 that seemed to occur in Han - Buddhist times: In WB there is quite a bit of Buddhist commentary dating to this time - when you see comments relating to following the Middle Way (hexagram 63), the white horse (the symbol of ideas that have come from far away) see the commentary to hexagram 22. This symbol of hexagram 22 probably relates to the white horse that itself carried the first Buddhist scrolls to China. The white horse appeared to the king in a dream and after the monks arrived with the white horse carrying the scrolls arrived the king named a temple in honor of this horse and his vision.

We don't know if the incomparable Buddhist teacher of India, Nagarjuna, actually traveled to China but his ideas electrified China and most of the ancient world. So many hundreds of years after Buddah Shakyamuni, he had visions of the nagas of the Kunlun Mountains in northwest China (their holy place). He wrote of what he had learned and established the Great or Northern Vehicle of Buddhism today practiced in Tibet and historically in China (one branch being Kunlun Shan Taoism). Nagarjuna's disciple, Atisha, took these teachings to Tibet where the nation eventually disarmed and devoted themselves to perserving these teachings.

What is most interesting is that essentially this Northern Vehicle is a new world religion yet Nagarjuna, himself a humble monk, declined to give himself the credit and said that Buddah had predicted this transmission of wisdom would happen after his (Buddha's) death.

During these times in China, about 1 BC, the pilgrimage along the Silk Road to the Kunlun Shan began to be practiced by seekers and early Taoists had inns along the road looking for the worthy seeker to join their group. Just like the Middle Way and the white horse, I think Hexagram 56 commentary does have a layer of meaning relating to these times of pilgrimage.

I think the practices of Internal ALchemy predate the practices of this form of Buddhism by many thousands of years. I base this on Master Ni's remarks that alchemy and the I Ching first existed in oral form among the Zhou and that the I Ching was first a guide to this practice. This is a startling idea to many, me included. He said that the Zhou after they came to the yellow river area\ (they are said to have originally come from near the headwaters of the Yellow River near the mongolian border) they clan lived in a hollow mountain near Xian, especially when things on the outside were unstable.

After hearing this, I was honored by a vision of the early I Ching inside this mountain in a small room that contained the 'altar from the beginning of time.' On the altar were 3 things - something round, something square and a shaman's belt with articles that explained how the world was made and how alchemy was performed. I later had the idea that when reciting the oral history of the Yi as it existed then the sequence was not numerical as the hexagrams are today but were read clockwise to progressively discuss such things as yin-yang and the 4 elements and counterclockwise to discuss how a human can become an immortal through the steps outlined in the shaman's belt.
Happy New Year to all!

As Ever,

Sun

[gene]

Hi Sun

Any chance you can email me? Seems like your website is gone, or maybe it is back now, and I would like to contact you.

Gene

[gene]

I have recently moved, I don't have a land line, and once again I am using only the library's computer. Also, something has gone wrong with my knee, temporarily I believe, and I am limping, can't get around very easily. So right now I don't have my books with me. Hope to get back in the saddle soon. In the case of hexagram 56 I really could use a good knowledge of the original language. In English, we tend to think one dimensionally. A word is a word, it has a specific meaning. In ancient languages this was not so, and a word or a picture could have a multitude of meanings, each conveying a very important point.

In modern times we have been so seduced by the lure of modern universities, and supposed higher learning, that we have little time for supposed alchemical training. Our scientists tell us it is all superstition anyway. When one talks of inns where one can go and get higher learning to the modern this sounds like utter nonsense. Only the universities have higher learning. So someone who practices Tai Chi, chi kung, some minor forms of alchemy, as I do, would be considered a nut wasting his time on superstitious nonsense, rather than contributing to society by being out there trying to earn a good living, pay a fair share of taxes, etc. As a result we have ended up with a society full of hollow men and women, who can only see the surface level, and truly believe there is no other level. As a general rule they do not see maturity levels, and are revulsed at the idea that one person can be more mature, spiritually or otherwise, than another. I think it was T.S. Elliot, in the Wasteland, who said, "I think we live in rats alley, where dead men dry their bones." Like they ancient Hebrews, we spend forty years in the wilderness of superficiality and barrenness, never even realizing our state. Who in their right mind in todays world would spend time looking for a roadside inn where spiritual masters might teach us of the meaning of life? And yet that is precisely what we need. Reminds me of that chicken commercial, where the statue of a great philosopher is asking passersby if they would give him chicken in exchange for the meaning of life.

Gene

[gene]

One language still spoken, though not too much anymore, that has multiple meanings within words is the language of Hawaii. There was a man, Max Freedom Long," that spent a good deal of time in Hawaii. We became enamoured of the ways of the Kahunas. This may be the only place on earth where real magic is still practiced and actually happens. Hawaii is a spiritual vortex. On the big island of Hawaii about once a month, there is actually a ghostly procession of ancient Hawaiians, probably Kahunas, that play musical instruments, and walk down from the mountain to the sea. You can hear the music, you can't necessarily see them, but cars travelling on the roads which they cross, are actually knocked off the road. Hawaii makes believers out of a lot of skeptics. At any rate. Max Freedom Long noted that as the missionaries had the Hawaiians translate the Bible, they were actually using words that had coded meanings. And by studying the different meanings of the words, a part of the ancient kahuna magic processes were being brought to light. Much of this relates to the belief that man has three parts, he has a conscious mind, a subconscious, and a higher self, or superconscious. Much of this has found to have been true of the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians also. Through the accumulating of mana, or what the Chinese would call Chi, they would make a prayer, using the conscious mind, send the prayer to the subconscious mind, and the subconscious mind would send the accumulated chi to the superconscious mind. The superconscious in turn would use the accumulated chi to create the new conditions requested in the prayer. This required super high levels of chi though, and it also required that the subconscious did not feel any pangs of guilt or wrongness, or it would not feel safe in contacting the higher self. Here too, it was required that people show a high degree of manners, receptivity, and humility before they would ever be accepted by a teacher, and many searched for a teacher with or without success. The white man of course, believed the magic to be witchcraft of the devil and arrested many of the kahunas. Of course, with the power the kahunas had that could be dangerous sometimes too, but by and large, the kahunas were reduced, and now many do not believe in the ancient ways. Ironically, Christianity and science often do not get along together, but they have worked very closely in getting rid of the ancient teachings.

Gene

[alterbukintervw]

hello all,

my latest hit on the judeo-islamic-christic tradition is that it assumes 'redemption', of something that has been screwed up, as its highest ideal. Holdovers from Manichaeanism? I also associate the ethical mores of these traditions with the characteristics of the river-cultures from which they amalgamated; Nile, Tigris, Euphrates; the cyclical, benevolent Nile, versus the unpredictable Tigris and Euphrates which required the engineering of canals and city-states, and beureaucracy to boot.

I've wondered about the effects of the YangTze and the Ganges on the development of Hindu/Buddhist and Ur-Yi cultural paradigms, as a result. Taoism strikes me as almost a rebuttal to Confucianism, as Lao-Tzu post-dates both Congfuxi and the Yi, as a codification of ancient yoga, at least developed in-parallel with the teaching of the Yi if not directly derived from the Yi itself. Alchemy developed the Taoist yoga, incorporating the Yi, often, as a metaphorical device.

Alchemy, east and west, to me, seems to be a form of yoga that is discussed in external, highly metaphorical terms. And yoga seems to me to be the closest thing to technology that religion has to offer. The Yi too can be considered to be a Yogic path, yantra, etc.

I don't know if I am in the neighborhood on this particular meander. At home on the river though.

[alterbukintervw]

SunPuerh said:
'I think the practices of Internal ALchemy predate the practices of this form of Buddhism by many thousands of years. I base this on Master Ni's remarks that alchemy and the I Ching first existed in oral form among the Zhou and that the I Ching was first a guide to this practice. This is a startling idea to many, me included. He said that the Zhou after they came to the yellow river area\ (they are said to have originally come from near the headwaters of the Yellow River near the mongolian border) they clan lived in a hollow mountain near Xian, especially when things on the outside were unstable.'

This goes some ways to the incorporation of the river, the yoga/alchemy/practice, and the Yi. How the Yi was ever transmitted orally... must have been a vivid thing then, a living thing - at least moreso.

[gene]

In hexagram 56 in one sense as Sun says, the wanderer is following the silk road looking for the teacher. There are some types of teaching, such as martial arts, that can only be transmitted from one physical entity to another. Yet, the basis for those teachings, and the metaphysical teachings that they are founded on, can be found in the sacred texts, such as the I Ching. In every hexagram, in every line, the I Ching is talking about itself. Hence, in the I Ching, for certain types of teaching, we have found the inn on the silk road. As we practice the lessons though, we are and become the wanderer. (Strangers and pilgrims, of whom the world is not worthy - Hebrews) Each of us is a heavenly being, (a soul with a body) our soul being from a higher dimension, trapped in a sense in this physical body, and wanders upon the earth. It is necessary for us to travel in this physical body in order to gain soul experiences which teach us inevitable cosmic lessons. The I Ching, and possibly other sacred texts, are our guidebooks. We ignore them at our own peril. When we do not follow the teachings properly, "our house burns down." Sometimes we get the milk of the word, and not the meat, and as such, we attain property and an ax, but our heart is not glad, because we have only found the more superficial meaning. Furthermore, we must have the proper attitude. If we don't recognize our status, and begin to act as if we are the host and not the guest, we bring down trouble upon ourselves, for the host will not accept it. If we take our teaching too lightly, and laugh and play, rather than recognizing the seriousness of it, once again, our house burns down.

Hopefully, soon, depending on time, I can start a thread on how in each line, the yi talks about itself.

Gene

[gene]

There are many underlying messages in the I Ching which we miss when we are looking for a specific answer to a specific question. One underlying and recurring message is that it is often through breakdown and loss that gain comes. Another way of saying it is that it is through entropy and devolution that evolution comes. The principle is there throughout so much of the book and yet it is often missed. We can see it rather easily in hexagrams 23, especially line 6, and hexagram 59, where dissolution must occur so that that reintegration can happen at a higher order. We can see it too, in hexagram 28, though perhaps not so readily, that when the existing order becomes too excessive, and it inevitably does, that a transition is made to a new form with greater potential. We even see this in hexagram 25 line three. The wanderer's gain is the citizen's loss. Here, one receiving this oracle can choose to be the citizen or the wanderer. It is often only when we lose something that we see what is of true value. It is through loss that we gain. It is a matter of the perspective that we maintain regarding the situation. In hexagram 49 and 50 we see how the "snake must shed his skin" before the new skin is useful. There is loss before gain. It is so much in human nature to resist this. As such we break the principle of nonresistance. In Tai Chi sensing hands practice, we are constantly reminded that we must "invest in loss," It seems so inappropriate, and opposite of what we want. No one ever learns sensing hands correctly unless they "allow" themselves to be pushed. Pushed and pushed and pushed. It is hard on the old ego, too. But that is what it is all about, breaking holes in the ego. Thus it has a value beyond fighting skills because it teaches us how to be better persons in daily life. Acting in accordance with the principle of nonresistance, rather than the crude and incorrect attitude of, "no one is going to do that to me, by G**" In hexagram 56 the wanderer loses the cow due to carelessness, which is a whole different situation. In 25 line 3 one loses the cow through no fault of his own. But the thief who thought he/she would gain by illicit means, finds that their actions lead to the loss of that which they thought they were gaining. In loss comes opportunity. Hopefully much more can be said about this soon, and I haven't forgot about the writeup of hexagram 61 either. It is coming.

Gene

[gene]

I am discontinuing this temporarily. I do not think there is enough interest in it to continue. I will continue to drop in on this site, but probably will not be that active on the board. I feel there is a lack of understanding from a lot of people on what my message is all about. There are those who wish to listen, but others who just want to debate and disagree, and I am just not into that. I know the way. I really truly know it. Those that wish to learn and understand the way can contact me. But I don't care to communicate too much with those who do not want to listen to my message. Nevertheless, I am open to all people as much as I can be.

Gene

[candid]

Gene,

I'm not sure exactly what response you're looking for. When you (or Chris, or anyone) presents ideas as a teacher/preacher in front of a class, it feels as though a response isn't appropriate. If there is a response from the audience, it is considered an argument. I guess I am to sit at my desk with hands folded or taking notes, offer no thoughts to the contrary; or if I do rebut, to expect to be "told" how it is. When you (or anyone) speaks of 'the way' as though it is above debate, opinion or other personal experience, I move on to something more open.

I'm fairly sure that if you wish to write a paper or thesis, that Hilary might be willing to archive it here for you. If not, web-space is relatively inexpensive, or even free in some cases. Have you considered teaching a course at a local community college?

Personally, I wish there was more actual human exchange here rather than pontification from a few experts. While I'm not especially drawn to romantic distress threads, at least they exchange thoughts and feelings like living, breathing humans.

Just my own thoughts and feelings on the matter.

You're a good guy and a gentleman with unique ways of integrating various sources of history and information to express your thoughts. I think you are more appreciated than you may realize.

Candid

[gene]

Thanks Candid,

And you may be right. I have received some info to that effect before. I may be just a bit overloaded right now too. As I said, probably will be temporary. Responses aren't necessarily what I consider arguments, unless they question the validity of the material. In some cases that is appropriate, but there are other places, not on this thread so much, where things that are unquestionably true are disregarded as nonsense. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, I don't have a problem with that. I do have just a little bit of a problem, and it is my problem, I will own up to it, when I give guidance that is based on solid spiritual principles, and it is not respected.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Gene

[hilary]

Candid is absolutely right (what else is new?). I would be delighted to have the chance to archive papers from Gene here. That 'Yi talking about itself, line by line' one, for instance. Anything sent to me as Word docs I can turn into 'pretty' pdf files with clickable contents lists.

One of the meanings I find in 56 is that when you take yourself, your ideas and your ideals out into the world, you can't expect everyone you encounter to speak your language. It happens every time someone publishes ideas: they step out of the citadel of Hexagram 55, where they were prince and cornerstone, and find themselves small again.

[rinda]

...what Candid said.

You add a lot to this community. I'm sorry if what you receive in return does not meet your needs.

Rinda

[candid]

Leaving the citadel of 55 to the smallness of 56. Never saw it that way before. Love it.

[martin]

There is a story, told by V. Ganesan, about a French woman, Edith Deri, who visited Nisargadatta.

Ganesan:
We were in Bombay together and I somehow convinced her to accompany me on a visit to Maharaj. She came very reluctantly and seemed determined not to enjoy the visit.
When we arrived Maharaj asked her if she had any questions. She said that she hadn't.
"So why have you come to see me?" he asked.
"I have nothing to say," she replied. "I don't want to talk while I am here."
"But you must say something," said Maharaj. "Talk about anything you want to. Just say something."
"If I say something, you will then give some reply, and everyone will then applaud because you have given such a wonderful answer. I don't want to give you the opportunity to show off."
It was a very rude answer, but Maharaj didn't show any sign of annoyance. Instead, he replied, "Water doesn't care whether it is quenching thirst or not".
And then he repeated the sentence, very slowly and with emphasis. He often repeated himself like this when he had something important to say. Edith told me later that this one sentence completely destroyed her skepticism and her negativity. The words stopped her mind, blew away her determination to be a spoilsport, and put her into a state of peace and silence that lasted for long after her visit.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[gene]

Thank you all so much, and actually Rinda, and others, it does meet my needs. I was being a bit arrogant but also a bit down because I just can't get to everything I want to do, and I have started taking very seriously getting down to the business of writing my book. I have set a timetable of three to six months to finish it, which may be totally unrealistic, but things are falling by the wayside as I try to get busy. It was just a mood I was in. There is no reason at all for me to expect anyone to hang on to the words I say, but there is definitely support for what I do. And believe me, I get a lot here too. I also have the prospect of going back to work full time here soon which has me in a tailspin. I can't get half the stuff done I need to now. And just running around trying to tie all the loose ends together, references, etc. etc. By the way, as best I can tell the I Ching is not real positive on the job, but more positive on another one a little further down the road by the same department.

Gene

[candid]

Gene, I can relate on each of those levels.

I have an interview first thing in the morning. Second time around with this company. When it's right it's right, and not until then.

Best to you in all things.

[megabbobby]

nah gene..you write good stuff
i'm just now starting to get the 'mystical marriage' alchemy you were talking about way earlier in the thread
i love checking in here every couple of days and reading what's up

thanks to you i know more about where the coolness is in hex 54 amongst other things

[gene]

Hi Megabobby

Anything I write only scratches the surface. I try and try and try to get really valuable taoist perspectives on the I Ching, and just can't find it. My Tai Chi teacher said the other day, "you are going to have to find it in yourself." As much as I try to write on a Taoist perspective, it still comes out being largely Confucianist model. But I believe this aspect is very important and powerful too.

When I write, if no one responds, I have no way of knowing if anyone is reading or not. In a way, its a good thing, in a way, it is not. There have been some responses though, I just want to be sure I am not wasting everyone's time, including my own. Hilary's suggestion I will take into account, however, at present, I do not have access to my own computer, and I do not have word available to me, only lower level word processing. I have wanted to start an I Ching newsletter, I just don't know how to do it. There is a line in hexagram forty one that says, one must know how much he can enrich others without decreasing himself excessively. I love to give of my time, but I only have so much to give. Nevertheless, I will try to stay on the board and contribute when I can.

There are times however, when I have to retreat. Having nothing to do with this particular thread, when I answer someone's post, giving principle's that are clear, and unquestionable, and they are not accepted, then by the necessities of protocol, I can no longer post any answers to that person unless they begin to see the truth of what I am saying. This principle is discussed in hexagram 4 line 4 I believe. Sometimes this leaves me not able to say a lot. While I believe that discussion is good, it has to be discussion that is based on truth and true understanding.

Overall, though, I appreciate everyone, and everything they have to post, regardless.

Thanks for your support.
Gene

[omshante]

hi gene

truth and true understanding.

one recognises the tao when it becomes a feeling just below the navel and it draws you hither and thither, seeking knowledge with the enthusiasm of a young child wanting to learn. confucius, however was stern in his outlook wanting to curb the taoists' waywardism.
your tai chi teacher is right, gene.

wry smile
omshante