In relation to 'whats effect of forum on business'

[trojan]

Ben "Toes" was Dobros signature when he was just quoting Hilary one time. Anyone can put anything in their signature. To say what one member puts in their signature affects Hilarys revenue is utterely ridiculous - and even if it were so then I would think it would be up to Hilary to tell Dobro she did not find it acceptable. Anyone who had followed that thread would know why he wrote that and if anyone missed that thread they wouldn't - so its not an 'in joke' its Dobros signature, his choice, and if you had been reading you would have seen Hilary never signs herself off "Toes" :rolleyes: One could say Luis dragon with cow carcasses was an 'in joke' does that mean his dragon detracts from Hilarys revenue ??

[trojan]

Rosada you made some fairly damning allegations in that other thread. You can't accuse the forum in general of 'hazing' or 'humiliation' unless you are prepared to say who you are talking about as as far as I'm concerned you then create the unpleasantness you say you are trying to avoid.

If you don't like joking why not say so next time someone makes a joke ? Why hide under the blanket of what Meng thinks. And quite frankly I have to say he himself is no great peacemaker - only recently telling someone they were talking 'bullshit'. I've no problem with that but I'm wondering why you are holding him up in front of you as a great example of 'good behaviour' - sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't.

As for those who left well let them - they do tend to come back :rolleyes: However all this is completely irrelevant as numbers for participation do not, as far as I know, directly affect Hilarys income. In other words her income did not decrease because someone joked or someone left. If i'm wrong correct me.


I very much resent you and Ben using Hilarys thread as an excuse to make disaparaging remarks to noone in particular but the forum in general. In effect its is like you are blaming members here for the fact that Hilary does not make enough money - you are scapegoating and blaming regular posters - and its not even logical. I'm not seeing why you can't take on board the fact that a few people leaving and a few jokes do not decrease Hilarys income and to say so in such a general way is pretty out of order as far as I'm concerned.

Ultimately if Hilary really thinks something is bad for business she would surely put a stop to it - no one can do it for her. But I do resent you and Bens implication that is I and others who regularly use the forum who are responsible for her lack of funds.

Generally Rosada you know I have much respect for you but what you said on the other thread did not seem fair even after giving myself a good 'cooling off' period.

[lightangel]

Since you opened this thread to not derail the other one, Trojan, I will post here what I'm thinking, I hope you don't mind...

Rosada, I do think you have been good at taking any comments thrown at you and making the best of them. I commend you for that. I do try, also, to take negative feedback and try to find the grain (or rock) of truth in them, although I don't always succeed.

That being said, I think it's a huge misrepresentation to say that Hilary is losing money because of any bickering going on here. As Trojan says, bickering only increases traffic in certain threads. That's human nature.

Besides, I have yet to see somebody walk in here with their wallet in their hands, trying to find something to buy. I have no idea what links are out there that lead to Clarity but the forum area is just an area, people that show up here are just stumbling upon this ongoing conversation and they either like it or not, they either stay and participate or leave. If they want something to buy they will go to 'Products and Services'. I really fail to see what is being 'sold' in these threads, that people are declining to buy because of anything that has been said.

[sparhawk]

One could say Luis dragon with cow carcasses was an 'in joke' does that mean his dragon detracts from Hilarys revenue ??


Good thing I had lunch already. That mention of cow carcases made think of charcoal fires... :D BTW, I must clarify that my flying fellow is flying on my own bandwidth. The little thing is hosted in my own website and is only a link in my signature. So, not only is the cutest thing around, it doesn't cost Hilary anything extra (although, I heard he's thinking of charging her for the privilege of keeping things toasty... I'll keep him in check, don't worry. :rofl:)

[trojan]

I haven't even seen much/any bickering around lately except a little between Meng and Frank Keegan- and Getojack and Frank.

[trojan]

Good thing I had lunch already. That mention of cow carcases made think of charcoal fires... :D BTW, I must clarify that my flying fellow is flying on my own bandwidth. The little thing is hosted in my own website and is only a link in my signature. So, not only is the cutest thing around, it doesn't cost Hilary anything extra (although, I heard he's thinking of charging her for the privilege of keeping things toasty... I'll keep him in check, don't worry. :rofl:)

Listen the dragon is an asset. Sometimes I visit the site just to see him, and the last dragon was so poor he was homeless. I'm certainly not going to feel the way about a donations button - not half as cute

[hilary]

Oh wow... someone who really, voluntarily, takes personal stuff to 'Open Space' and out of the original thread. Trojan, you're amazing.

Luis' dragon, it's very kind of you to pay for your own upkeep. When Clarity's rich, it'll send you a steak allowance.

[trojan]

Later after more cooling off period.... Rosada if your're reading, I can see perhaps i took your comments on the other thread perhaps too personally, where you were only stating your opinion. I don't agree with your opinions there at all, but i do apologise if my tone to you above seems rather hostile. I don't feel hostile to you at all, just felt strongly over what you said.

[rosada]

Whew! Thanks. I didn't intend to be saying our frank talk was costing Hilary money and that someone was somehow to blame - but I guess that is what it added up to. I apologize. BTW, I wasn't basing my comments on the bantering that's been going on about here lately. I was actually thinking back to a couple of years ago when a sweet poster named Peace suddenly disappeared saying we were all too much.
And I'm definitely not holding Bruce up as a paragon of virtue - I know he wouldn't stand for that...
Anyway, again thank you for letting me off the hook.

[meng]

And I'm definitely not holding Bruce up as a paragon of virtue - I know he wouldn't stand for that...


Thank you! :hug:

I had no one(s) in particular in mind when I mentioned this forum as being not representative of what a customer receives from Hilary and her services. No one person, comment or thread impacts Hilary's business, but the general ambiance of this forum doesn't represent one-on-one interaction with Hilary, which is her bread and butter.

[meng]

As far as Frank and I, phht, just the rattling antlers of a couple old bucks. He can surgically remove your liver and hand it to you, in under one sentence. I thought he might appreciate a candid spar, and I think he did.

[rosada]

Wow! Didn't that feel great? I FELT the air clearing! WE really cleared the air. I think we just did a performance artists interpretation of 37. - 40: A Family Clears the Air by Honoring and Listening to Each Other's Viewpoints, thus Allowing for Release of all Mistakes and Misdeeds. YEA TEAM!

New ideas coming to me. What do you think of Hilary creating a College of I Ching Studies that would hire the graduates to teach their own courses? Thus, if I complete Hilary's classes to her satisfaction I am then certified to advertise my own courses and the students I would attrack would pay a fee which onlineclarity would get a part of. It would be a school we could all teach at and Hilary would make an administrative fee.

[fkegan]

Hi All,
this forum as being not representative of what a customer receives from Hilary and her services. No one person, comment or thread impacts Hilary's business, but the general ambiance of this forum doesn't represent one-on-one interaction with Hilary, which is her bread and butter.

I would see this as a structural issue with a structural solution. Perhaps a banner with link on every screen of Shared Readings....For a thoughtful, reasoned, personal response to your question, issues and Yi needs click her for Hillary's counsel.

In general there is a completely different perspective involved in generating customers, leads or even relationships than there is to an open discussion of whatever is brought up to discuss by anyone.

Organization and management requires a clear goal and intent which is then given the appearance and available space to make the intake of customers the prime purpose of the output of available and attractive items displayed for sale.

A range of perspectives, comments and even bickering can be useful diversity especially if combined with the clear offer of safe haven for those seeking Hillary's personal attention and paid services.

Frank (Kegan [not Keegan])

[ben_s]

Trojan, thanks for starting this new thread to clear the air. I think it was very considerate of Hilary's thread for you to move your concerns to this new topic, and then give the heads-up in her thread.

I had thought I'd seen Hilary sign several posts with just the one word, 'Toes.' If I'm confusing her posts with someone else's, then I apologize for that confusion.

I didn't see the other thread, so I don't know what the original context was.

If I thought Luis's dragon was used by Hilary in her posts, I'd wonder about that too from a marketing point of view. But I've not been confused about whether the dragon signature was hers.

I hope this clears the air. I'm apologizing for any confusion or distraction that came from my misunderstanding who uses what signatures.

If Hilary absolutely never used 'Toes' as her sign-off, that would still have nothing to do with my original point.

My original point is: a consistent forum signature is a highly valuable tool for online marketing; and I recommend Hilary explore all the tools that might help her business - especially ones that are free and easy to try out.

I have seen very respectable marketing experts discuss the business value of a consistent forum signature. From a business point of view, I don't think my concern was "utterly ridiculous." I was already planning to post links to some people who I consider admirable because of their online business success. I think Hilary might find some useful ideas that could help her business.

This really is an area where I've extensively done my homework. If you'd like to provide more credible sources of information about how to succeed at online business, that would be a help to both Hilary and to me. But I suspect the ridicule isn't because you've studied and know that signatures don't matter online, but just because you were feeling annoyed. If that's the case, I'd appreciate a calmer response when you're done with the annoyance.

[fkegan]

Hi ben_s,

I remember the thread developing that brought up the [Toes--Hilary] sign off. It was a discussion of counting with body parts (I don't remember more than that) where the question was asked what would tribal folks use to count upon after their 10 fingers, and Hilary responded in her post....Toes. Which Dobro found delightful and took as his signature...having nothing to do with Hilary actually. Then there was a bit of back and forth about how many body parts to count with do naked males and females each have.

I remember my next post was that anthropologist types found folks without a formal number system still could keep track of up to 120 animals in their flocks counting in complex ways with detailed anatomical details.

It wasn't the most significant or sophisticated of discussions, certainly not anything that should be tied to Hilary or her business plan or marketing signatures in general. Just a bit of thread lint that got tangled up....

In general, Hilary does not appear to use any signature at all... just her grey rat moniker.

My original point is: a consistent forum signature is a highly valuable tool for online marketing; and I recommend Hilary explore all the tools that might help her business - especially ones that are free and easy to try out.

Moving on to your basic point...putting any sort of a consistent forum signature requires several organizational steps before establishing the wording or type of online mechanism to use.

I do agree such a suggestion is not ridiculous, or at least I made a somewhat similar post on the original thread...

Frank (Kegan)

[hilary]

You might notice I've started making greater use of my signature file here. It certainly is a good resource; on other forums, I always use it, though probably not as well as I should (with a direct link to squeeze page, specific offer etc...).

I am painfully familiar with all things to do with internet marketing - but the basis for selling things online, like anywhere else since the first bear pelt was bartered for the first sharpened flint, is having something to offer that people want.

[trojan]

This really is an area where I've extensively done my homework. If you'd like to provide more credible sources of information about how to succeed at online business, that would be a help to both Hilary and to me. But I suspect the ridicule isn't because you've studied and know that signatures don't matter online, but just because you were feeling annoyed. If that's the case, I'd appreciate a calmer response when you're done with the annoyance.



Theres quite a few threads on this topic now and theres a difference to my mind of discussing "how to succeed in online business" and discussing Yis answers around that. In that thread I thought we were discussing an answer of 14 to 12 not providing business counselling. Seems to me the Yi does not always support business values whether we like it or not . Your expertise in the area of online marketing is something I've no cause to doubt. Connecting the Yis counsel to always supporting onward and upward business expansion is something i doubt very much indeed - especially when answers to my mind at least do not support this. Then I think one may as well just give straight forward business counselling rather than try to link it into the Yis answers - and to my mind some interpretations have gone hopelessly astray in that area - but what do i know.

But that has nothing to do with the original 'toes' contention, lol. Hmm my annoyance stemmed from the fact that it seemed to me you exuded a disaproval of the human element in this forum, part of which are signatures and a degree sometimes of silliness. And frankly it was rather funny you counselled Hilary not to use "Toes" as her signature when she never had. But you seemed to take it all seriously and rather than just laugh it off you made what i thought a snide comment about 'in jokes' and overall i got the impression you saw yourself as the marketing wizard who thought it a good idea to do away with anything not linked to the goal of 'online marketing' such as human beings who may have played a part in this forum for some time.

However I'm aware impressions from message communication like this are often way off as we don't have the benefit of seeing one another, body language intonation etc.

So I apologise if i have reacted upon a wrong impression of you.

[ben_s]

Thanks Frank and Trojan.

Frank, the original thread sounds like fun. Thanks for telling me about it.

Trojan, I really appreciate your response. The human element is exactly what I love about this forum! I really like the way there's the exploration of the ancient wisdom, of course. There's common sense, experience, and everyday life shared. Sometimes seriously, sometimes with fun. There's respect for the people, while disagreeing with the points they made. It's all good!

All of this inspires me. I enjoy it. I don't want to change it. I want to participate in it as it is. Selfishly, I want to see the fewest possible changes to the forum, that are consistent with Hilary's business goals!

Some people I encounter in everyday life bring along negativity and despair. They turn away from anything about wisdom or introspection. (I don't just mean they don't take my advice! :rofl:) In addition, I'm going through a whole lot of heavy-duty things in my own life these days. I guess I'm a really pondering type right now. This forum helps me see a bigger picture.

It does me good to join in a discussion around a spiritual concept that was here long before we came along and that will far outlast us. I have people in my everyday life that are into mainstream Christianity, or New Age thought, or hard-core evangelistic atheism (!)... but not the I Ching.

I guess I do bring a pretty serious attitude here. Just because I don't always join in a joke doesn't mean I look down on it. Just because I sometimes get so worried or serious I don't talk from the heart, doesn't mean I don't want to be open hearted. Thanks, Trojan, for your patience as you followed up on your annoyance.

Hilary's business concerns did seem pretty serious to me. I'm in the middle of those same types of business questions for a couple of clients now, so I really wanted to see if there's something I could offer to help Hilary. And I really do, sincerely, believe my point of view about her business does respect her readings. If my own opinion contradicted the Yi, I'd say so. I'd say something like, "I think the Yi is telling you that... and I don't understand that, because my own business experience says that instead..."

[trojan]

:bows: