Real connection or just holiday fling?

[nicky_p]

Hi all,

I've just got back from a really good 4 or 5 days away with my best mate. And I met a guy! (Which was not an intention!) Spent a couple of days with him and think that we had a connection of some sort. We shared the same sence of humour and talked about everything and nothing. Now that I'm back I don't really know what to do http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif

I really do like him but don't know whether to leap and do anything about it as we don't live near each other. But I just can't stop thinking about him. We have each other's numbers and i've had a text message asking if I got home OK which I did reply to. I'm nervous! Not really like me! I was fine in his presence but .... well now I don't know what to do. Part of me thinks that I should go for it because even if he decides that I'm not for him then it's not like I'll have to bump into him all the time is it?

Anyhow enough of my babbling. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/crazy.gif

I asked the Yi for a general diagnosis of the relationship and recieved hex 5.2.3>3

I also asked how I should act and recieved hex 28 unchanging.

I think this means that I should just wait and see. Have faith because if something is coming to me then it's already written.

I think hex 28 is saying to be myself and live my life - whether that be alone or not. I just don't know if it's being myself waiting! I'm normally a go get em type but I'm becoming aware that that is not always the best way! Feeling coy http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Love
Nicky
xx

[jesed]

Hi Nicky

Just in case the comment could be useful

1.- 5>3

Calendaric calculations points that hex 5 is completely in the past, while hex 3 is in the present (started between september 17 and November 1, 2005; and would end until August 1, 2006).

So, this relationship at this moment is like be facing the dificulties of any begining, after a time of waiting that is already end.

I mean: after a short time when you wouldn't even think in any relationship, now the Time had change, but it is still a little bit chaotic at this moment.

2.- hex 28...

there is too much emotional tension in you about this issue. Calm down and move yourself from that uncalm position. Seek for a renewal (ruling line 2) and keep self-control (ruling line 5)

Best wishes

[void]

I can't see 28 as 'wait and see what happens' lol, infact the opposite isn't it, more like if you tarry much longer the roof will collapse. Here I might take 'standing alone' as you taking courage and 'going for it' like you say.

And 5,3 also seems to indicate waiting around is not a great option for you, you get bogged down. Whats more 5, 2 and 3 change to 3 new beginnings http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif Far be it from me to raise hopes but...

Yes I think Yi is saying go for it, don't delay and give yourself a nervous breakdown (28) I think anyway the fact that he texted you means you're in his thoughts too.

(BTW, totally irrelevant but its perplexing me that many here spell 'sense' as 'sence' ? Is that an American spelling ? )

[lightofdarkness]

The full meaning of 28 covers all aspects of excess and included going beyond what is required - doing the extra yards, going the extra distance. IOW void's comments above are, IMHO, 'limited' in perspective - Unnecessarily negative ;-)

the infrastructure of 28 is described by analogy to the under-exaggerated characteristics of 43 and so a focus on spreading the word/seed ,all of which favours a 'robust' manner - an excessive manner that can also be generous in being prepared to go beyond the norm.

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

oops - MORE extreme - infrastructure is to 01 not 43

011110
100001
------
111111

and so an even more 'intensity' in expression of yang, of perseverence and singlemindedness - and so a willingness to 'go beyond' the norm.

43 is infact the infrastructure of 44,

011111
100001
------
111110

the other element in the pair of 28,44

[void]

Look Chris I'll speak plainly. I've really had enough of your nasty condescending comments to others and to myself. I have had enough of your endless self promotion, the yards and yards of links, your crazy insistence that if others see things a different way they are 'limited'. My friend if anyone is limited it is you ! Can you really not see that ?

If you wish to tirelessly advertise here, well thats no concern of mine I suppose, but please don't tail my comments and posts with jibes and sneers.

Some of the most intelligent people here, who 'get' your work and wish to discuss it with you - all they get is insults back. Furthermore you just can't answer their points. For example you never answered the point about why you so closely stick to 'traditional views in hexagram meaning and naming.

You think people don't understand your're wrong. Many 'get it' but aren't just that impressed by it.

Anyway I do take issue with you coming in and being so derogatory about my comment in my post. Thats so unecessary, all you had to do was give your own you without sneering at me.

Awhile ago on another thread you insulted me and I ignored it - you said words to the effect 'get out more, wake up to 21st century' But now I've had enough. If you think you're such a goddamn genius how come you spend your days spewing forth your religion on this site ?

In short will you please go away and leave me alone. I am not at all interested in your work, it bores me, so never trouble to explain your theory or post link for my benefit again.

I'm tired of scrolling down past acres of self promotion and links patiently - but I have to ! Now if you are going to start getting nasty and personal my patience is out !

[nicky_p]

Dear Jesed, Void & Chris,

Thank you very much for your responses.

Dear Jesed, I'm wondering if hex 5 is based in the past because I asked my general diagnosis in relation to a global diagnosis that I recieved a while ago. I was meaning to get in touch and ask you if that was the best way to go about it or whether I should ask for a whole new global diagnosis every time I have a question - even if it is related? Does that make my reading skewed?

Dear Void, I was going round and round a bit in my head (nervous breakdown style but not quite that extreme! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif )I took 28 to mean just be myself - even if that meant that I had to stand alone. Being a Gemini I am a little mutli-facetted (hopefully not in a bad way!) I wasn't sure which of my impulses to follow! Part of me said to leave it and see what happened - almost to let him do the chasing. But it's not quite me. I'm not a game player - I've just been reading too many girly mags! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif BTW 'sence' was a typo. I always get a tad confused as to which one it is. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/howmuch.gif

Dear Chris, Thank you for such a positive responce! I get a little worried because I wonder whether I put too much emphesis on the good parts of a reading and gloss over the negative. I guess I wanted to throw this out there so if there was anything negative someone would pull me up!

I also read 28 as to choose a direction and go with it - although not forcibly. But that I really had to sort out my own thoughts and feelings first before I 'did' anything.

Thanks again for your insight - I really do appreciate it.

Love
Nicky
xx

[nicky_p]

Dear Void,

I know there's a bit of friction here (I have seen the recent posts in open space and such). Don't know if it's my place but on this occasion I think maybe Chris was being a bit tounge in cheek. I took him to be saying that you were saying my 28 was a positive responce saying go for it and that he was saying not just to go for it REALLY go for it if you know what I mean.
I may be wrong, that was just how I read it
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/hug.gif
Love
Nicky
xx

[void]

Nicky I can feel your're bubbling over with barely contained excitement, it kind of comes through your words. I think you gotta let it out as in Cat Stevens 'Ooooh I can't keep it in, can't keep it in I gotta let it out..' Ooops showing my age here.. I feel 28 here is you letting it out, well you got to, otherwise I fear you may implode..http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif I think that so far there is an almost general consensus you should 'go for it'. I do hope it works out.


(Yes your right, there was an over reaction here because I've kept quiet on so many previous occasions when Chris has said 'grow up' 'your're limited' blah blah blah http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/tongue.gif but sorry to bring it into this thread)

[nicky_p]

No worries sweety xx

Like you said someimes you just 'gotta let it out' http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

I think it is quite difficult sometimes to convey what way you want things to come across when all you have is text to work on. Sometimes I wish I could just take my heart out of my chest and plonk in on the page for people to disect! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/heart.gif
I guess that's why I like the Yi. It kind of allows me to do that with myself if that makes sense? (These emoticons help a little as well http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif )

I really like Cat Stevens. A lot of people don't realise he's being covered half the time.

Love
Nicky
xx

[lightofdarkness]

>
> Posted by Void (Void) on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 9:55 am:
>
> Look Chris I'll speak plainly. I've really had enough of your nasty
> condescending comments to others and to myself. I have had enough of
> your endless self promotion, the yards and yards of links, your crazy
> insistence that if others see things a different way they are
> 'limited'. My friend if anyone is limited it is you ! Can you really
> not see that ?
>

All I 'see' here is someone who is upset because they got caught-out being sloppy and giving a one-sided interpretation of a hexagram. There is nothing in your prose that indicates proper understanding of 28 - your prose shows a limited understanding of the hexagram, and in general all of the hexagrams. All you need to do is recognise that and attempt to refine your knowledge and skills - rather than get upset because you got cocky and stuffed-up and got caught out! ;-)

> If you wish to tirelessly advertise here, well thats no concern of
> mine I suppose, but please don't tail my comments and posts with jibes
> and sneers.
>

If you are not precise in your prose then expect such comments; if you wish to be an 'experienced interpreter' then expect to be 'corrected' when you get sloppy - otherwise you let down the IC and that is a no-no ;-)

> Some of the most intelligent people here, who 'get' your work and wish
> to discuss it with you - all they get is insults back. Furthermore you
> just can't answer their points. For example you never answered the
> point about why you so closely stick to 'traditional views in hexagram
> meaning and naming.
>

The traditional views are LOCAL expressions and it is those expression most are exposed to. If I write 28 as "a context of contractive binding within which is operating expansive bonding" you would have no idea what I am talking about without in-depth understanding of IDM/ICPlus.

The local expressions are valid to a point in that they capture a PART of the full expressions of hexagrams; they TRY to describe what is being delt with through LOCAL analogies/metaphors - as covered in Marshall's book. They did not know where the feelings that made them make the analogies came from - now we know and with the ICPlus material we can go beyond that, give more understanding of what we are dealing with.

To make the point about the traditional IC being a sub-set of a universal IC it is necessary to juxtaposition the traditional with the universal and so bring out the universal meanings BEHIND the local labels.

If, for example, you review the Wilhelm texts of 28 there is a lot it misses due to the 'small world network' that is the traditional IC; IOW LOCAL conditions forced an adaptation of the universals within the IC such that some qualities were excluded or marginalised.

With IDM and its application to analysis of the IC, of how it generates 'meaning' we find more depth then Wilhelm et all imagined (or else only intuited)

Thus you wont find in Wilhelm or Legge or even the 'alternative' interpretations/translations such material as the XOR material since no one understood the properties of the methodology involved in generating the IC - their analysis was at best 'superficial'.

BTW - your reaction to my prose was I think a touch 'extreme' when all my prose did was focus on an error you made and have failed to acknowledge - in stead you abuse to an extreme I have not shown.... so you response was an example of YOUR interpretation of 28 - excessive. Mine comments on the OTOH was to go beyond the norm and add some more depth to the interpretation - so my prose was in tune with my interpretation ;-)

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

Nicky - glad that it all helped.

Chris.

[nicky_p]

Dear Chris,

I'm sorry you feel slighted - Void has already expressed that there was an over reaction. I understand that you need to put you're point across. Sometimes your language can seem a little agressive - as I've said we only have text to work with and that is a very small part of comminication. I don't have the benefit of reading tone of voice or body language to gauge the full meaning of what you are trying to impart. I do like to give the benefit of the doubt though http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

I really do appreciate all expressions of the hexagrams that people share. Being quite new to this it is a little overwhelming sometimes when the whole thing is opened up at once. I suppose that would be how people would feel if I really did 'plonk my heart on the page'!

Love
Nicky
xx

[void]

Dear Chris you are not in a position to 'catch me out' as you are not my teacher.

As I explained if your comment above had been a one off I would hardly have thought anything of it, but it is just another insult to add to the many that you seem to sprinkle around the place.

Matt more or less nailed it yesterday when he pointed out your unintelligible verbosity (my words) is nothing more than a smoke screen. You could communicate your ideas in a much more simple way, your ideas are no way as complex as you like to think they are.

Often people seem to think 'wow Chris must be a really clever guy because I have no idea what he's talking about'. I kinda think thats the way you want to keep it - in which case I don't think your purpose here is communication. So I began to wonder what it was ?

Could it be its yourself you are trying to convince, not any one else ? See theres a huge amount of effort you're putting in, yet even when some folks are open to you and try to engage with you intellectually you won't play ball. Its like sharing and exchange of ideas with others isn't really what this is all about.

Thats all I want to say to you I think. No further dialogue is necessary because none is actually possible. Still at least you now know you have one less person to post links for.

[lightofdarkness]

void - I am not interested in being your teacher - I AM interested in getting the IC 'up to date' and so will continue to point out sloppy interpretations such as yours.

your wrote: "I can't see 28 as 'wait and see what happens' lol, infact the opposite isn't it, more like if you tarry much longer the roof will collapse."

and "don't delay and give yourself a nervous breakdown (28)"

these are both negatives presenting 28 as if pure negative. This is an error - a mistake by some novice trying to show off.

Nicky was sincerly asking about properties of 28 and in doing so should receive the full spectrum of what it represents, not some flippant comment like yours.

My original remarks were simple, short, to the point and covers a 'slap on the wrist' for your sloppyness when I wrote:

"IOW void's comments above are, IMHO, 'limited' in perspective - Unnecessarily negative ;-) "

I even included a smiley. Your later response was totally and utterly incorrect, extreme, in that you had been sprung being sloppy and did not appreciate it. Tough. Make sloppy interpretations and so mislead the questioner warrents 'correction'.

As for Matt. I have replied to his comments. And I have even replied to your issues re:

"For example you never answered the point about why you so closely stick to 'traditional views in hexagram meaning and naming."

Do you acknowledge that reply? no. You cant since to do so validated my position of being open to discuss such points where you have tried to use it as some issue of mine.

Snap out of it void. Do some serious study - you obviously need to. That all you have to do. Go back to the books and go through it all again. Simple. No aggro, no ego, just get on with it and in so doing become a better, thoughtful, interpreter.

Chris.

[heylise]

I got a simple solution - I never read anything from Chris. That way I miss all the insults.

LiSe

[lightofdarkness]

LiSe - then you also miss all of the insights. - the consequence of the 'head in the sand' approach.

[jesed]

Hi Nicky

Just in case...

5 is in the past, because inner trigram is Heaven and outer trigram is Water

Heaven goes from May 1 to June 16
Water goes from June 17 to July 31

Because your question was made on february (under the sign of Earth), that time is completely in the past. From May 1 to July 31 of 2005

Now, hex 3 goes from Thunder to Water. Thunder goes from September 16 to October 30 and Water, again, from June 17 to July 31

In this case, February is in the middle bettwen Thunder and Water (in post heaven order, clockwise). So, is a present Time.


About global dignosis, it doesn't change in few days; so you can keep that answer during the Time that covers that Sign. So, you don't need to do a new Global Diagnosis, just keep it in mind when you understand more concrete questions.

Best wishes

[jesed]

ps.

I don't see 28 as "positive" or "go for it", neither as "negative" or "don't go for it".

Just describing an inner state of mind (emotional tension) and the consecuence: "you should calm down", "don't put so many wage on this topic"

The way I would apply in one prhase:

"Dear Nicky, you wander if this is a real conection or just a holidy fling. The fact is this is just begining, so you couldn't know yet (5>3), but you are puting to much emotional wage on this (28) If you ask me what is the best thing to do: calm down, let the situation evolve naturally, remaining centerness (image and ruling lines of 28)"

[nicky_p]

Hi Jesed,

Thank you.

Love
Nicky
xx

[nicky_p]

Hi Jesed,

I also meant to ask you where you find the post heaven order please. I've looked for it in Wilhelm but couldn't find it.

Thank you
Nicky
xx

[jesed]

Hi Nicky

The "post heaven order" is the one that have Li in the South, Water in the North; Thunder in the East and lake in the West. Some people called "King Wen secuence", or "Kin Wen arregement"

See http://www.geocities.com/theologontos/section7.html

For use in calendaric calculations; localize the sign of the date when you made the question (example: february is under Earth). Draw a line clockwise from the sign of the lower trigram to the sign in outer trigram. If the signf of the date is inside the line, is a present situation; if not, ALWAYS is past situation ( because acording with traditonal teachings, Yi Jing never talks about the future before touch the present.. so if the line doesn't touh the trigram of your present, all the hex is inthe past)

Best wishes

[nicky_p]

Dear Jesed,

Thank you. I've found it in Wilhelm as well - under 'Sequence of Later Heaven' or 'Inner-World Arrangement'. I'm not sure where the dates of the signs are from though. Wilhelm mentions them but I can't find any reference. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place again?

xx

[jesed]

Hi Nicky

Well, there is a way to adscribe some hexagrams to some chinese months. Whilem mention this in those cases (see hex 20). For more details, you can see LiSe's page. http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/origins/index.html (select "from gui to gua")


Now, the dates adscribed to the Post heaven order is a little bit diferent (is another tool; not by seasons like the previous, but cosmologically)

In this tool, Fire goes from December 17 to January 31... from that, count 45 days aprox for each trigram, clockwise... Earth (February 1 to March 16).. Lake (March 17 to April 30) and so on

[nicky_p]

Dear Jesed,

Thank you very much. It really does help to see whether I'm looking at my Time now. I'm a great believer in living in the present - although I am prone to daydreaming and maybe over planning a little for the future! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

Love
Nicky
xx