Origins of chinese folk medicine

[sergio]

Very interesting article about the concepts that originated Traditional Chinese Medicine.
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a289.pdf
Sergio

[charly]

Very interesting article about the concepts that originated Traditional Chinese Medicine.
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a289.pdf
Sergio
Sergio:

Thanks a lot. Very interesting study and a mine of resources the site:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/afs_cumulative_list.htm#latestissue

from the same site:

Chao Wei-Pang: The Chinese Science of Fate-Calculation.
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a40.pdf

Yours,

Charly

[sergio]

Hola Charly;
GRACIAS!This is really a very interesting article indeed.Thanks for posting and also for showing me the"forest"of articles I missed....I hereby consider myself "illegally blind".
Sergio

[sparhawk]

Amen!! :bows:

There's two of us. Glad Charly is paying attention. I certainly wasn't...

CUMULATIVE LISTING OF ESSAYS & BOOK REVIEWS FROM THE
JAPANESE JOURNAL OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES (http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/jjrs/jjrs_cumulative_list.htm)
(http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/jjrs/jjrs_cumulative_list.htm)

CUMULATIVE LISTING OF ESSAYS & BOOK REVIEWS FROM
ASIAN ETHNOLOGY [ formerly ASIAN FOLKLORE STUDIES ] (http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/afs_cumulative_list.htm)

Chasgracias!

[charly]

... the"forest"of articles ...
Sergio
Sergio & Luis:

One of the documents from the «forest» is about marriage songs:
Serruys, Paul: Les Cérémonies du Mariage. Usages populaires et textes dialectaux du Sud de la préfecture de Ta-t'oung (Chansi) (suite). [77-129]


Roughly translated from the french:
.. a verse fron the Shi Jing (book of Odes), that maybe even who recites it does not know the sense. Here the text of the Shi Jing:
旄丘之葛兮, 伯兮
何誕之節兮, 叔兮。何多日也。

See Couvreur, p.43:
«On this mound where the slope is soft, how the dolichos' stems had extended so far! Why our uncles (ministers of Wei), delay so long time in helping us?»
But the sounds of this ode, read in dialectal pronunciation are enough for exciting the imagination of the hearers: mao-kien (mot shu = hair + viril member), ho tan (xe-tae = black + testicle), ko-ye (koje = to cut), po-ye (paje = to peel)...
from: http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a27.pdf


The chinese characters matched with current meaning, Legge and alternative:

旄 mao2: ancient flag , old // , staff (1) , sloping // hair - hairy
丘 qiu1: mound // mound// dick, cock
之 zhi1: 's // ... // 's
葛 ge2: vine, hyacint, bean, soybean // dolichos (2) // bean (3)
兮 xi1: oh! // ... // ...!

伯 bo2: senior, uncle // ye uncles // Sir (4)
兮 xi1: oh! // ... // ...!

何 he2: carry, what, why // how // black
誕 dan4: increase // wide apart // testicle
之 zhi1: 's // ... // 's
節 jie2: part // joints // piece
兮 xi1: oh! // ... // ...!

叔 shie: uncle // uncle // uncle
兮 xi1: oh! // ... // ...!

何 he2: carry, what, why // why // why
多 duo1: many // many // so many
日 ri4: day // days // days
也 ye: [stop] // ... // eh?

Alternative version:

Bean of a damned damn, Sir!
Piece of a damned damn, Uncle!
WHY SO MANY DAYS, EH? (5)

... or maybe:
F***ing bean, Sir!
Piece of sh**, Uncle!
Why delaying so much, eh?

I don't understand too much, but the alternative version could, in my opinion, be less respectful than Legge's version, but of course, both last having the same sense: too much time passed waiting for help not yet arrived. (6)

Time enough for luxuriant growing of plants and hairs. Time enough for falling the nuts or harvesting the beans.

Don't you think so?

Un abrazo,

Charly




_______________
(1) «banners, with ox-tails displayed,» Legge in another Ode.

(2) Legge's «dolichos»: hyacinth?, arrowroot?, soybean?, a plant that grows like a vine. «Dolichos creeper, Kudzu vine (Pueraria thunbergiana), used for making fibers». from: http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\china\bigchina&first=3181

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/baike/abpic/item/c71d0e3879f7d8e1b311c76c.jpg

Image from: http://baike.baidu.com/view/8845.htm?func=retitle


(3) Bean: O.E. bean "bean, pea, legume," from P.Gmc. *bauno (cf. O.N. baun, Ger. bohne), of unknown origin. As a metaphor for "Something of small value" it is attested from 1297. Meaning "head" is U.S. baseball slang c.1905 (in bean-ball "a pitch thrown at the head"). From: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bean

(4) this UNCLE is maybe more respectful than the first. Calling UNCLES to the courtiers may depict some remnant of matriarchad customs, respect for the mother's brother, or also lack of paternal presence in the mind of the speakers, say soldiers were bastards, low people or peasants.

In my country all the «gaucho» literature depicts lack of paternal presence, as some cultural customs do: «10 centavos pa'la birra, tío!» → «Ten cents for the beer, uncle!», maybe remnants of the spanish conquest (see A.Salas: Crónica del mestizaje de las Indias).

(5) I know, I know, YE must not be translated, but... !

(6) Here the Legge's version in comparison with that of Couvrier (there are also some differences between the respective chinese texts):
《國風 - Lessons from the states》《邶風 - Odes Of Bei》
《旄丘 - Mao Qiu》
旄丘: 旄丘之葛兮、何誕之節兮。
叔兮伯兮、何多日也。
Mao Qiu: The dolichos on that high and sloping mound; -
How wide apart are [now] its joints!
O ye uncles,
Why have ye delayed these many days?
Legge version, from Sturgeon at: http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=47093&if=en&searchu=%E8%AA%95

Sur cette colline dont le revers est en pente douce, comment les tiges du dolic se sont-elles etendues si loin? Pour quoi nos oncles (les ministres de Wei) tardent-ils si long temps a nous securir?
Couvrier at the quoted source

(6)

[sergio]

Hola Charly;
I like the two versions-kind of the yin and yang of translation-one for El Ateneo y the other one for Minguito...Chau!
Sergio
P.S.:'menazame,Charly!...

[charly]

Hola Charly;
I like the two versions-kind of the yin and yang of translation-one for El Ateneo y the other one for Minguito...Chau!
Sergio
P.S.:'menazame,Charly!...

Sergio:

I celebrate that you can accept both versions, one for the academy and the other for low people.

I wonder if something close could be made for the YI, might we have a YI for academicians and another for plain people? In english of course, because in chinese it will not vary, except among commentaries or interpretations.

The Ode's speaker wondered the same thing that now wonders my government: how could the soyben extend so long in the country in so little time. Did ancient chinese also have transgenic soy and glyphosate?

This ode's soy is the same that appears at H.47 in the YI among othe vegetables. In the Ode, soy extended more quickly than government's help. In the YI, people are separated from wine and food but sourrounded by crops and grapevines. Maybe like Midas, sourrounded by richess but unable for enyoing it?

Yours,

Charly

[ravenstar]

Wow these sites are a wealth of information!!! Thank you!!!!!

ravenstar