Are you free at the weekend?

[hilary]

Update to clarify...

When - up to you; please vote in the poll. If we don't get a dozen or so people showing interest for either Saturday or Sunday, we can postpone until the New year
What - exploring a shared reading. The subject of the reading's also up to you - suggestions?
How/ Where - probably via Skype, unless there are too many people for that, in which case I'll find a solution that works for everyone.

Please note that Skype is free and very easy to use - but you do need a computer microphone - a headset, to be safe. If you can't get set up with one of those in time, you can still join the call - email me your phone number, and I'll call you from Skype to connect you in. So unless you have neither a computer nor a telephone (cellphones OK in the US/Canada, landline required elsewhere), you can join this one.

~~~

Kevin is available now to fit in one more trigram journey before Christmas - it'd be next weekend, Saturday 20th or Sun 21st. This one'll be on Skype/phone, so it's just as available to Mac people as Windows, and if your microphone blows up/ dies/ is eaten by the dog, just send your phone # and we'll call you to add you to the conference. So in theory there will be no technical problems (and how jinxed is that?), and this is just a question about timing.

Last weekend before Xmas? Sat or Sun? Or leave it until Jan?

Hence the poll.

[bamboo]

I have a few questions....what time would this be ? and what trigram?

personally, I am not sure the trigram safaris attract that many would- be journeyers.........what of the idea of doing some kind of magical guided journey of another sort? I like the idea of a gathering during this season when miracles seem so close to the surface.....and I love the prospect of Kevin's leadership...but what if we did a group reading or asked some kind of question before hand that everyone could divine about and then take a guided journey to the place of meaning for each of our responses.......we could be very creative about this.......and what about opening it to all forum members, not just change circle, since then there might be a bigger showing.

my feeling is that it could be a clarity open house"holiday gathering" with a guided journey and a reading for perhaps the close of a year would be something that everyone would want to drop in for, and have a chance to say hello to each other at ths time of year....that sort of thing...sort of like the traditional office party.but this would be a fellowship party.....whaddya think?

just throwing ideas around.

[hilary]

I have a few questions....what time would this be ? and what trigram?
Thunder, and 6 or 7pm UK time, which is late morning to mid afternoon across the US.
personally, I am not sure the trigram safaris attract that many would- be journeyers......... It's true that the numbers have dropped off, but I think this is at least partly because people had bad experiences with the webinar room technology, and gave up on it. what of the idea of doing some kind of magical guided journey of another sort? I like the idea of a gathering during this season when miracles seem so close to the surface.....and I love the prospect of Kevin's leadership...but what if we did a group reading or asked some kind of question before hand that everyone could divine about and then take a guided journey to the place of meaning for each of our responses.......we could be very creative about this.... Mm, interesting thought. I'm not sure about one journey for many individual readings, but casting and somehow travelling through a reading for the group is an enticing thought. I've always been drawn to the idea of making a group journey through a reading landscape. But this is Kevin's department - not just because he's the one who's so very good at leading these journeys, but also because I won't have time to prepare anything worth mentioning between now and Christmas. (Grmph.) Kevin? How would you feel about a walk through a reading? ...and what about opening it to all forum members, not just change circle, since then there might be a bigger showing.

my feeling is that it could be a clarity open house"holiday gathering" with a guided journey and a reading for perhaps the close of a year would be something that everyone would want to drop in for, and have a chance to say hello to each other at ths time of year....that sort of thing...sort of like the traditional office party.but this would be a fellowship party.....whaddya think?

just throwing ideas around. I like the idea! Though if the numbers increased much, I'd need to find different technology, something remotely-hosted: I've an idea that Skype conferences all depend on the internet connection of the person who initiates the call and adds people to it. I don't know what a sensible upper limit would be for that. Any geeks here who could help? (I do actually have another option in mind - Gotomeeting has the same sorts of functions as the room we've been using, is Mac-compatible, and I've only read good things about it. People even have a choice of phone or VOIP.) We're a bit pushed for time to arrange something like this, with contents (any suggestions for a question?) and technology and making sure everyone knows about it. It could be done, though...

[kevin]

Hi Bamboo

Yes – I like the idea of a holiday Gathering – Open and with lots of creativity (and magic) and yes I could try to do a Guided Imagery based on what comes up.

I am not sure whether many readings to a question would be feasible for a guided imagery. How about us all throwing possible questions into a pot, us all choosing one and then one person doing the casting – all before the gathering? Would that be too restrictive?

We could all join in with interpreting it and then I could try to get a theme out of folks responses to do a guided imagery?

Time is short – we will all have to move quickly to do this.

Any good?

Perhaps folk could wade in with their views – I will follow what folk want.

[hilary]

Thank you, Kevin. :hug:

Since we're making this a Clarity-wide party, why don't we have this conversation in the public forum? I think I can simplify that by just moving the whole thread to 'Clarity news'... hold on...

[hilary]

...and here we are.

No motion sickness, I hope? Good.

[maurey]

I like the idea very much but I don't have Skype-- can I still take part with just my computer and/or a phone line???

[kevin]

Hi Maurey

If its helpful...

Skype is free to download and use. Costs only come in if you use its advanced features such as answer phone or telephoning landlines or mobile telephones.

In addition to the download a headset is required (headphone and mic) these can be bought fairly cheaply - about $10.00 U.S. or about £15.00 in the UK (last time I looked) - But I would recommend spending a little more as the cheap ones tend to be fragile.

Skype for Mac is here:
http://www.skype.com/download/skype/macosx/

Skype for Linux is here:
http://www.skype.com/download/skype/linux/

Oh, and Skype for Windows is here:
http://www.skype.com/intl/en-gb/download/skype/windows/

All the best - hope you can make it.

[hilary]

I like the idea very much but I don't have Skype-- can I still take part with just my computer and/or a phone line???

I completely agree with Kevin's recommendation that you download Skype - it's very useful. But yes, on this occasion you can take part with just your phone. I have a subscription with Skype that lets me call people's phones, so if you send me your phone number I can call you and add you to the conference that way. Or if we have too many people for Skype, I should be able to sign us up for a service that supports phone as well as 'voice over internet' conversation. Thanks for asking!

[bamboo]

Kevin, it doesnt sound restrictive.......sounds good.....but no response is forthcoming..hmmmm, maybe too busy a weekend to get commitments, or else people dont read clarity news on a regular basis.....; )

[kevin]

It is very quiet...
It’s a great idea – I guess it will happen in its own time.
.

[hilary]

Patience... I'll put a link to this thread at the top of the newsletter, and see what happens then...

[dean]

Kevin is available now to fit in one more trigram journey before Christmas - it'd be next weekend, Saturday 20th or Sun 21st. This one'll be on Skype/phone, so it's just as available to Mac people as Windows, and if your microphone blows up/ dies/ is eaten by the dog, just send your phone # and we'll call you to add you to the conference. So in theory there will be no technical problems (and how jinxed is that?), and this is just a question about timing.

Last weekend before Xmas? Sat or Sun? Or leave it until Jan?

Hence the poll.
Hi Hilary,

I'm new here and I don't have Skype so I don't know if I'll be able to participate.

[mary f]

Thanks for the invitation.
I can come either on Sat or Sun.
Please just let me know at what time.
Kind regards.

[corax]

Hilary,

Sorry - can't make it this weekend.

Good luck with it, though,

David

[hilary]

Hi Dean - you could always get Skype, it's free. But if you don't have time to get set up, just email me your phone number and I'll add you to the conference that way. If we have enough people interested to make it worth doing, that is. Hi Mary - if you haven't already done so, could you vote in the poll for one day or the other, just to help me keep track of numbers?

[rodaki]

hi everyone!
I'd love to join you for this pre-xmas Clarity gathering, I love the idea!
I've already voted for Sunday, but not really good at proposing a question that would apply nicely to all . .:o but I'll be happy to go along with your choice :)
hope more people join, this sounds great!
Umm, and, should I send you Hilary my skype address,or how do you organize these things, never done it before . .

Dora

[buzzurro]

If I could I'd slow the whole world down,
I'd bring it to its knees, I'd stop it spinning round,
but as it is I'm climbing up an endless wall... :rolleyes:

I'm so sorry I just can't catch up with these online meetings... and even worse, I didn't even manage to read or listen to the recordings! :bag:
Maybe one day I'll come too... but not this time, sorry... :o

[heymau]

Sorry Hilary,

I'll be out of town this weekend :( But I'm looking forward to the next meeting.

Kind regards,
M.

[arableparable]

yES ,either day so i vote sat just to help the underdogz.Surely I will know a miracle has happened When I get The headphones and try understanding skype.Well put regarding describing it as eazy.

[d10tryfan]

Hi Hillary,

I would gladly take part in this shared reading, but I would prefer to ask you a few questions personally beforehand, if that's okay with you. I have had some interesting readings regarding my future. I would prefer to talk over the phone with you, if a convenient time could be arranged. I receive free land line calls anytime, so I can call you, if that's more agreeable for you. Thank you for any enlightenment you can offer.

Jeff:)

[hilary]

Jeff - I'll be in touch by email.

Hm - 8 'votes' for Sunday... experience suggests that might mean 4 people who come on the day... so maybe if some more people sign up tomorrow we could do this? Let's make a threshold of 15 votes.

What to ask? (whether on Sunday or in January)
Utterly random ideas...

What's 'New Year' for?
What do we need to know about creating real change?
What do we need to understand about creating harmonious relationships?

This would be a thoroughly general reading, on the assumption that there are, in fact, things we all need to understand about the chosen topic, and Yi will be kind enough to tell us one of them.

[tuckchang]

Hi ! HIlary,

Just for your information, Skype conference is for max. 24 persons + the host.

Best regards
Tuck

[gabistutz]

No - will be participating in the Christmas excitement (rush) - :rolleyes: Gabi

[stef]

Dear Hillary,

I would like to join on Sunday. I have no Skype nor time to arrange it, though.

Warm greetings from Amsterdam,



Stef

:bows:

[maremaria]

Probably I can make it on Sunday.

maria

[hilary]

OK, I think we're on for Sunday, don't you?

Please send me your Skype ID or phone number!

[kevin]

Great - looks like were on.

Any suggestions for a question to put to the Yi?

Perhaps something not every day?

I will throw one into the pot to start us off - 'Of Re-incarnation?'

We can choose one of the suggestions and take it from there?

[hilary]

...mm, I asked one years ago about the significance of the Incarnation. Maybe this comes next ;)

I'm sort of keen on asking something we can interact with personally - I mean, something with the potential to change us somehow. A 'what do we need to know about...' or 'how can we...' kind of thing.

Sending out an email now to ask for Skype IDs/ phone numbers and suggestions.

[rodaki]

hi everyone!

Love the idea of re-incarnation!
. . but in the meantime I've had some communication problems with the Yi and it occurred to me that perhaps another one could be about the process of asking the Yi, what approach the Yi advises . . I don't know, would that seem too obvious (probably 20 as answer? but one never knows with the Yi). People have often talked about it here and everyone has their own way, meditating or very straightforwardly

so . . really not sure if that's a good idea, what do the rest of you think?

rodaki

[hilary]

I'd love to ask that. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, what with the project with Eliana and related survey (http://www.onlineClarity.co.uk/survey.php). I need to find common elements - beyond individual preference for ritual or not - to everyone's experience of 'opening'. So this is ultra-relevant for me.

[hilary]

A couple of suggestions via my Facebook profile:
"Dear Honorble Spirits of the Yi,

Please advise us as to what our goal should be this year in order to obtain a greater understanding of the oracle the I Ching...."
(Osunyoyin Alake)

"Could ask 'whats the best question a group of us could ask?' ;)"
(Jon Wilson)

:)

[rodaki]

lol!

love this last one!!;)

[triple3]

Hey everyone,

Sorry I won't be able to join in this gathering, 6pm UK time is 2am Singapore time, and I'll definately be having a date with the ZzZ monster.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a great time exploring divinations and sharing tips, tricks and ideas, I hope that a recording can be made and archive somewhere in the forum so that those who can't make it can check it out.

Cheers!

David

[arableparable]

how about we each ask that question regarding inner hopes that won't go away and involves something almost impossible to achieve?. You refered to these questiones as "off the ground", needing to coome down to earth one way or another.each will have their individual secret question that won't go away.You could break them down to common denominators so that all the information is pertinent. like..........questiones to do with a)romance/all human relationships b)vocation/important plans involving doing any activity.I reckon along these lines so that you could explicate going about answering these seemingly unrealistic desires or plans.I downloaded skype easily and discovered to my delight that with a small adaptor for an external mike to plug its phone 1/4 inch (i think)in to a 1/8 plug for the desktop,works with my headphones.I think my contact name is karmayeshe or the full version, karmayeshedorje.my phone # for home/work is a cell #

[hilary]

Just remembered to close the poll, since Sunday won. Now...

Yes, there should be a recording, unless I have technical problems with the recording program. Which has been known to happen. If anyone else attending has the means of recording, please go right ahead.

Ralph... got your Skype contact details by the way, thanks... do you mean asking something like 'How to achieve the impossible?' :) I imagine that would be more of an individual thing - that the answer for one person would be 'you don't' and for another would be 'like this...'.

If you need to test your mic, btw, you can do so by calling echo123 in Skype. Very useful.

[hilary]

I think we should decide on a question tomorrow, to allow time for someone to cast the reading and us to mull over the response a bit.

I'm equally interested in

'How best to approach Yi' - basic principles to work by as we form an intention for a reading, put the question into words, and cast

and

Something fitting for the turning of the year - like 'how to bring about real change'. That's something we could apply personally to 'New Year resolutions' and individual habits, or as broadly and globally as we like. I have a feeling there's a single principle that would apply on all levels and scales of change, and Yi seems a good entity to ask...

[bamboo]

I like that question about real change....i would love to discuss something like that which we could all take away with us into the new year and then maybe even report back about changes or progress.....sort of like a mastermindgroup support....we could be spiritually and psychically supporting each other in the months to come, connected by the shared reading..... i could sure use it this year!
I hate to be the incessant nudge about details I could probably look up if i wasnt so lazy...but what time does 6pm UK mean for eastern usa....???:bows:

[hilary]

Bamboo, you really need to subscribe to Friends' notes! - or Change Circle updates, or both. That's where the details are!

Here's a copy of the email. The main thing is I need your Skype ID or phone # asap, as there's a maximum of 24 places and I've had about 21 replies already.

To celebrate the holidays, we're having an online gathering
this Sunday for *all* Clarity members.

If you'd like to come, there are two things you really need to
do now, and one you might like to do as well...

Thing one: email me back with your Skype ID or your phone
number, so I can call you on Sunday and add you to the
conference. (Note: the person hosting a Skype conference - which
would be me - has to call everyone. It doesn't work for you to
call me, so please don't!)

The phone number would need to be a landline, unless you're in
the US, Canada, China or Singapore. I can call most countries -
the full list is here
http://www.skype.com/intl/en/allfeatures/subscriptions/europeworld/
If you want to join the call from a country that's not on that list,
you'll need to get a Skype account (which is free) and send me
your Skype ID.

The maximum number of people on a Skype conference is 24, so
what I'll do on the day is call the first 24 people who've sent
me their details. Hopefully that'll be enough room for everyone
who wants to join... I'll also (try to) record the call, in case
people can't get on.

Thing two: mark your calendar for Sunday 21st, 6pm UK time.
That's...
9am Alaska
10am Pacific
11am Mountain
12 noon Central
1pm Eastern
7pm in Amsterdam
8pm in Athens
...and you can find other timezones at
http://timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc

And finally - what we'll be talking about. The idea is to cast
and explore a single reading for the group - on a subject of
shared interest, or asking for some advice we can all use - but
we haven't decided yet on a question. So that's thing three:
please visit the thread about this,
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7109
and share your suggestions.

As I was saying, I'd like to settle on a question today. Since Kevin's doing a lot of the 'leading' on this one, though, I'm waiting for his input.

[rodaki]

sorry I couldn't get back earlier . . all day at work :(
How to bring real change sounds wonderful! Actually I'll be happy to tag along with what ever you feel best :)

[georgia]

I'd like to weigh in on the real change idea, how to surf the currents of change in the coming year. However, it may be that a surprise family visit will keep me from participating in the call, unless I can talk my daughter into taking the dogs for a lo-o-o-ng walk in the woods on Sunday afternoon.

[kevin]

OK – I read the thread and pulled these questions out. I missed a couple off as we need a question that is a general principle which applies to everyone (Sorry). Even so some of these questions might bring very generalised answers. E.G. ‘How best to approach Yi?’ – Well there are so many ways and we are all different. Some people enjoy the mathematical beauty of Yi, others the clear moral guidance of the Confucian layers. Still others the numen of the connection and the spiritual growth and guidance that comes from that... and more and more...

One thing I am sure... Yi will most likely surprises us.

Please will those who are comming state a preference from the list below?

How to surf the currents of change in the coming year?
What approach the Yi advises (to using the Yi)?
What's 'New Year' for?
What do we need to know about creating real change?
What do we need to understand about creating harmonious relationships?
Please advise us as to what our goal should be this year in order to obtain a greater understanding of the oracle the I Ching....?
'How best to approach Yi' - basic principles to work by as we form an intention for a reading, put the question into words, and cast?
How to bring about real change?

[hilary]

One vote for 'what do we need to know about creating real change?'

Kevin - what would you prefer?

[kevin]

One vote for 'what do we need to know about creating real change?'

Kevin - what would you prefer?

I am with you - but would clarify the question a little... Real Change at the personal level? Personal/Spiritual? Relationships level? or World? etc...

Any views anyone?

[hilary]

My feeling was we could leave it at that and intend to encompass change at all levels. It seems to me the obstacles are broadly similar: the power of the groove, or the rut, and the inertia that keeps us moving along it.

Like I want to lose weight but my habits involve sitting at a computer all day. Or like the debate I heard on the radio last night about adding another runway at Heathrow: several people arguing that yes, this has to be done, it isn't possible for any government not to do so, because of the demand. And I'm pretty sure the same pattern exists at higher/deeper levels of thought patterns where few or none of us are even capable of seeing the world beyond the rut.

Of course all these preconceptions of mine get cheerfully thrown into the reading-vessel for proper cooking. But doesn't it seem likely to you that there is something that all levels and degrees of creating change have in common, and this is something Yi could talk about?

[rodaki]

ditto on Hilary's words, I think Real change has the same principles on all levels . .
. .and another one for the question on that to find out! perhaps Yi will disagree . . ;)

rodaki

[hilary]

Hmm... on second thoughts (or whatever passes for thought at this time of year) - maybe Hilary's untestable metaphysical assumption about the single nature of all levels of change is not such a great basis for a shared question.

I've just been chatting with Kevin, who's still volunteering to lead some impromptu guided imagery through the reading, and we thought that
'What do we need to know about creating real personal change?'
might be a more reasonably-sized question. Each of us could apply the answer where it needed applying.

Any comments/objections/suggestions?

Once we're sure of the question, Kevin will do the casting and post the answer here some time early tomorrow.

[rodaki]

Any comments/objections/suggestions?



nope!

[kevin]

Maybe a few words on why I think that how to bring about 'real' change is not a singular process.

Clearly we can bring about change by many means, injury and illness, spiritual practice leading to growth, therapy healing old wounds and developmental issues in the persona as well as personal growth. Practical change of outer dimensions such as housing, finance, or other circumstances. Change by skill building. Change by political action and through changes in our own and others perceptions and through information sharing, discussion and education. We can bring about change in ourselves and others through compassion and love or by challenging or quietly listening. We can bring change by making demands or by simply waiting for change to come. We can bring about change through introducing feedback loops in organisations (governance) or by building new infrastructures to distribute and exchange goods, services and information.

OK – Non of this is new or surprising... this is what the Book of Changes is all about – Managing inner and outer world change.
Perhaps Hilary is not so metaphysically off beam as she generously offers. (and it would be a major first that I have seen if she is).

So real change is many things... but what is being affected for the change to be 'real'?

For me there is one very basic change that is important above almost all else:

At the personal level what is the most crucial change we need to pay attention to?

Why personal level? Well take a look at Ken Wilber’s website for one explanation. We could address issues of change in Culture (norms, law, values beliefs and art etc.), or technological determinants, but the thing I most bring to this world is myself and how I use that self to help or hinder myself and others on our long journey of survival and growth.

I am not suggesting this as the question as the question Hilary put will elicit this if appropriate... just thoughts...

[hilary]

Good thoughts.

I'll admit it often seems fairly easy to me to see what change to pay attention to and attempt to make; it's how to have all those oh-so-splendid insights translate into anything real. All too often I've dazzled myself with my own brilliance, only to find I wrote all the same things years earlier.

Hm. I seem to be getting into omen-fixing territory.

Anyway, I was just dropping by to mention that we have a maximum of 25 spaces, and 24 people signed up. Impressive! I'll keep collecting all the names that come in and adding them to my Skype account, though, just in case some of the first 25 can't make it.

[kevin]

For the Gathering today:

The question I put to Yi in the end was:
‘What do we need to know about making personal change real?’

Late last night I sat with the question 'What do we need to know about creating real personal change?’ for a long time and when deep within it did not notice that it had metamorphosed into ‘What do we need to know about making personal change real?’ Bother.

Whilst asking the question I had in my heart-mind the idea of how to make changes precipitate into a reality in both our inner and the outer world. After fixing the omen making it take enduring form.

However the answer seems so perfect that I stayed with it. Hope that will not get me lynched.

Yi’s response was simply – 58 (no changing lines)

Though I expect in our discussion it would be worth looking at all of the lines as potentials within the moment.

Looking forward to meeting folk at 1800 UTC

[hilary]

I could start a poll - should we lynch Kevin? Any takers?

About the unchanging hexagram... well, round about the 21st for the past 3 months, I've published a podcast. (Not this month - way too hectic - the recording of today's call will stand in its stead.)
'What do we need to know about holding a living connection to source and meaning?' 29, unchanging
'What do we need to understand about money?' 51, unchanging
'How can we nurture creativity?' 27, unchanging

So an unchanging hexagram here is not a great big surprise. Perhaps it's a natural response to a question for a group, each of whom has their own way of 'relating' and drawing out parts of the answer.

[hilary]

Excellent reading on 58:
http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/serendipity/archives/51-The-salient.html

[bamboo]

I have the skype acount open and i do not know how to access the conference ..will it ring or something? how does this work? anybody know?

[kevin]

Hilary brings us all on board - we just sit and wait for a message asking us to join

[bamboo]

thanks!

[hilary]

Thanks Kevin :)

It's all in the email I sent a few hours ago - but yes, that sums it up.

[hilary]

Thank you, everyone, for coming. And thanks too to people who tried to join in but found the technology wouldn't work for you. It seems to have been a mixed blessing - good clear connections for some (from Athens to Australia), completely unusable for others. Unfortunately Kevin was one of those - and he had a lot more to share, and it's very disappointing and frustrating to have missed that.
:rant:

Oh, and my recording didn't work at all - it said it was recording, but nothing was saved. Sorry. Did anyone get a recording?

But despite all that, connecting with the people for whom the technology worked was great. Really enjoyed it. Come New Year we must definitely put our heads together and form a Yijing 'mastermind'-type group - or two, or three. The 'social groups' function available inside Change Circle will help with that.

(By the way - technology needn't get in the way. Small Skype groups work beautifully, in my experience. Then there's webinar technology (new, better, genuinely Mac-compatible) for groups of up to 15, and there are phone conference lines for bigger groups. It'll work.)

[kevin]

Well I have to see the humour in a Hx.58 gathering and such problematic sound.

I could hear some folk, but Hilary was breaking up badly for me.

The bits could hear were great.

I was going to try to explore other ways of looking at Hx.58, but the connection was impossible and eventually it cut.

I have talked to Hilary and I will do a brief recording which she will post and which I hope will be of interest. I would have liked better if we could have knocked those ideas around a bit together. Perhaps another time.

Meanwhile I wish folk a good holiday.

Warmly

Kevin

[maremaria]

- good clear connections for some (from Athens to Australia), completely unusable for others. .)

If you talk about me, I was in the "not-blessed-ones" list. ;)

Could the people that take part, post here what was discussed in that meeting ?

Maria

[bamboo]

Kevin, while you were there, you came in loud and strong, and I loved what you were saying. It was all quite interesting. I am quite excited about the possibility of mastermind groups, and the time seems right for it. Very interesting to me that recently I have been feeling like I need to deepen my understanding after so many years of personal shorthand, as I have expressed to others. The dimensions of understanding expand as there is personal input and sharing of thoughts, and as always, or maybe not as always, so interesting to sense that personal connectedness is so apparent and synchronistic. To me it feels like I was taking a graduate course today....and having light bulbs go off around ideas that I'd known, but which felt new to me again.

I was looking at the ritsema karcher concordance as we talked....they termed Dui as Open......and it seemed an occasion of openhearted harmony and joy........with sincerity in all the speakers.

after wards I was in my car listening to a CD by MOna Lisa Shulz, medical intuitive, and synchronistically, she was talking about communication, and how real sincere communication has to come from a place of "uncool" because when we are real, the heart opens, and what comes out is of a kind of vulnerable nature....not "cool" but uncool... when the heart opens, there is the possibilty of communicating deeply and more authentically than one might otherwise have done....it is not always comfortable to feel uncool, ie awkward, but it makes for the most enriching interchange. So I am thinking that the 58 reading encourages making personal change real by opening the heart to others. regrets vanish when your words are sincere/from the heart.

I learned that a long time ago, that when your words match what is in your heart, no matter what it is, then there is release for you, and a sense of connection in others who sense your sincerity, which in turn opens their own heart. So many of the lines emphasize this truth...3 says something to the effect that if you speak only to be pleasing to others, as we may be tempted to, the sincerity is lost.

dont know how much sense I am making to others;)but to me, the Yi's mandate in 58, seems a very apropos foundation to the kind and nature of the groups we can work in from her. the emphasis on OPen

my heart was open today, but i guess i was afeard of sounding uncool, lol. i felt like the young fool in hex 4

[bamboo]

had we decided to dispense with the guided imagery?? I thought Kevinwas going to lead one...bt then his pc shut down:confused:I waould have loved a guided imagery exercise to take us into the open heart individually and call forth the expression from there

[trojan]

Kevin, while you were there, you came in loud and strong, and I loved what you were saying. It was all quite interesting. I am quite excited about the possibility of mastermind groups, and the time seems right for it. Very interesting to me that recently I have been feeling like I need to deepen my understanding after so many years of personal shorthand, as I have expressed to others.





I'm curious as to what a 'mastermind group' is ? I could google it but I'm wondering what you think it is ? To me 'mastermind' was a 70s board game and a TV quiz show ?

[trojan]

So I am thinking that the 58 reading encourages making personal change real by opening the heart to others. regrets vanish when your words are sincere/from the heart.

4

I wasn't in the meeting so....not sure what kind of change you mean when you say real change comes from opening the heart. When I stopped smoking I just did it without talking of it to anyone...there were plenty willing to take my money to tell me how to stop smoking...as if there were any other way than me stopping putting them in my mouth and lighting them. Similarly book shops groan under the weight of unsold remainders of books entitled 'How to Change' Its a vast and rather uselesss industry that sells people the idea that there is actually any other way to lose weight than eat less and exersize more, that theres another sort of back door easier way to give up smoking than er stopping smoking....they're selling thin air, something seductive in that they tap into peoples idea that there really is some magic psychological trick that will let them bypass the sheer grit and determination needed to actually make real personal change...but by change here I'm talking of habits, eating, smoking, drinking etc etc...perhaps its another kind of change that was discussed in the meeting ..?

Just ranting but thinking of Hilarys question about how to lose weight....well of all the people who ever lost weight including myself inner resolution and motivation is all thats needed. That might for some people involve gathering in a group and talking about weight (58 ?) though for others that wouldn't be helpful at all.

So I'm interested to hear how 58 was applied to the question ? 'Personal change comes through sharing with others' Is that the consensus so far ? Can it be that when the most profound changes come from periods of solitude, inner resolve and reflection ? What would you, anyone, those who attended, say the core of the message of 58 was in relation to the question ?

[jilt]

Trojan,

neither I did attend the meeting unfortunately.
But 58 I can well imagine. Any kind of knowledge is developed by reflection, any kind of thought is developed by communication and reflection, and when we smile to eachother in the process because of recognition that proces of reflections is becoming more durable and from the heart. heart-mind are connected, and when that happens we smile.
So, thinking and imagination is develped by an internalization-process. When we grow up we not only learn to reflect with others, but also learn to do it in our own mind by imagening what the others are saying or thinking about it. That is thinking, a process learned by projection and correcting projections.
And when we are so fortunate to meet others that truely reflect, a synergethic process develops.

By the way, you also needed a lot of thinking and a whole process of internalization to find out that quitting an addiction is some thing you have to do yourself, in the end it is a moral descision (does it hurt or does it further or heal?). I'm sure you know about the psychology behind it because of books, in other words: reflection. Because of the thoughts in the books you knew where to reflect on, where to get feedback from your "self". By the way, a self only develops because there are others, because we reflect and smile.

Solitude, inner resolve and reflection can olly contribute to development because of others. What's the use of a mountain-retreat when there are no others to teach the experience afterwerd? Thinking and reflection develop in time. A process of transformation and feedback develops in time. We develop in time, you develop in time, what I think about you develops in time, what you think about me develops in time. A gua develops in time (perhaps except hex 2).
lake surface reflects, like metal, a mirror.

[bamboo]

Jilt says it beauifully, Trojan!

and NO, the consensus was NOT that opening the heart makes for real change, but I was expressing my own feelings about it. I have always been a real do it yourselfer, as it sounds that you are, but I have begun to see that sometimes that dead-ends, for reasons that seem to be implied by Jilt. Somehow, connection with others allows for a FLOW that one doesnt achieve all on one's own. There's a big difference between using a group to go and commiserate about weight , for instance, and the kind of heart opening I was talking about.
Personal commitment is key to change of course.
Group/ social contact has the power to lift us out of a mindset almost by magic.

A mastermind group notion was made popular by Napoleon Hill in his book Think and Grow Rich. In short, a mastermind group _dedicated only to positive principles and mutual support -multiplies many times your personal power.

[trojan]

A mastermind group notion was made popular by Napoleon Hill in his book Think and Grow Rich. In short, a mastermind group _dedicated only to positive principles and mutual support -multiplies many times your personal power.

I see thanks (sounds dreadful :mischief:)

[bamboo]

I see thanks (sounds dreadful :mischief:)


do you mean..."BAH, HUMBUG!" ?

[sparhawk]

I see thanks (sounds dreadful :mischief:)

LOL!! :rofl:

[trojan]

do you mean..."BAH, HUMBUG!" ?


Yes ! You're Psychic :eek: I was just about to log in precisely to post 'Bah Humbug' here as i do each xmas...really :rofl:


BAH HUMBUG Unbridled positivity with no shadowy places for a valuable doubt or two to hide sounds like a ghastly landscape of group denial to me :rant:

Just kidding...sorta ;)

[bamboo]

there is always plenty of room for doubt in anyone's conciousness. I dont need naysayers from the outside chiming in on that, I can generate my own own! something like the same principle is found in the concept of group brainstorming....no criticism of ideas is permitted, because it wetblankets the process
a group which supports you doesnt increase your capacity for denial, in fact it rather holds you accountable for making change when change is due.
but it is not for everyone, I agree. there have been times in my life when i had to stay away from people, even well-meaning ones, in order to generate my own power for change. at other times, such as in group meditations, I benefit greatly from the power of the group.

btw, I love walking around the mall to be inspired by the clothing worn.....I get great ideas for my own wardrobe. just like I do when i read magazines. I could never come up with the same ideas sitting alone in my room.

[gp505]

hi there,

i'd be interested in calling in. i have skype, and am open on times, but went with sunday since most people seem keen on that.

thanks, hilary, and all who make this forum happen.

wishing you all joy and peace in the coming year,

gillian

[hilary]

Hi Gillian,

Sorry to say you missed this one - we met up before Christmas. And even sorrier to say that the planned recording didn't happen. (It turns out that the recording software identifies the call with the first connection it makes - so when that person ends the connection, the whole recording stops. Grmph...)

I imagine you've arrived here now because you just saw the link in the emailed blog update? Those are just sent automatically every couple of posts, whenever the posts are; for more timely notification of live events, you need to sign up for Friends' Notes (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/members/subscriptions.php).