What if he moves-in 1st of May?

[millie]

answer was 3.2.4.5 turning into 54.

i'm freaked about the 54.

anything else i've asked about with this man is 31s and 53s and lots of 2s.

please help.

[millie]

anyone?

[jesed]

Hi Millie

Jus in case the comment could be useful

When one starts something (in this case, what starts by moving), one needs to do the right thing on the right time.

In this answer, seems moving in is the right thing, but in that date is not the right time.

Note that 54 is pair of 53 (gradual development). 53 is better than 54 for mates (not only romantic mates, but economical etc.)

Best wishes

[rosada]

Can you give us a clearer understanding of your question, Millie? .Are you asking what the effect will be on your relationship if he moves in May 1st, or are you wondering if May 1st is a good date for actually getting stuff moved or if another date might be better, or just what is it you're trying to clarify?
Whatever the intention in your question, the hexagrams, Difficulty in the Beginning, and The Marrying Maiden sound like there isn't a real clear understanding of what this moving in signifies. Perhaps one of you would like to be married and is accepting "living together" as a consolation prize. Or perhaps the division of expenses and labor hasn't been fully addressed and the IChing is indicating this needs to be more specifically spelled out. Bottom line, it sounds like the plan to have him move in May 1st is still kinda half baked and there's a need to have a clearer idea of what we're doing and why(3) or someone will be left feeling they had to just go along with the choices and that they had no power (54).

[millie]

I asked about moving in June 1- which was our original plan. I got 26 changing to 4. now what?

[rosada]

Hmmm...this even sounds like June 1st is too soon. Perhaps you should ask the I Ching, "What do we need to consider for this move to go well?" and perhaps Jesed could give you a date.
Venus squares Saturn on Sunday June 4th (depressing for love and money). How about having him move in Monday June 5th?

[dobro]

"anything else i've asked about with this man is 31s and 53s and lots of 2s"

Geez Millie, just do it lol.

"What if he moves-in 1st of May? answer was 3.2.4.5 turning into 54."

The Yi's talking about that particular date, cuz that's the condition you put on the question. So in regard to him moving in on that date, the Yi's saying something like: "It'll be a difficult beginning that you'll be powerless to deal with."

But I think your question wasn't clear enough. "What if" isn't very precise.

Just the beginning, in other words. Now ask the Yi a question about how to deal with the situation when he moves in. I bet you get an answer that's easier to understand, cuz the question's less vague.

[millie]

hi rosada, i didn't see your message until after i posted. you are all right: my question wasn't very clear, and that in fact does make interpretation difficult. this man and i have already decided to move in together. i don't think anyone is feeling it is less-than marriage. we have talked openly and asked good and hard questions of each other and ourselves. we talk about our future as though we will marry, and yet both also want transition time between here and there. we had planned to move-in June 1. what i mean when i say this is not the date exactly. it's more "by June 1" because that the end of the current apartment lease. the actual move day could be before. but now there is an opportunity for the lease to end a month sooner. so again- May 1 isn't necessarily the exact move date. it would however be a move that happens sometime between now and then. as much as i want to live together, it will be a transition to welcome someone else ito my home full-time. am i ready to do this in the next two weeks? or do I need the next 6 weeks to make my own internal transitions and organize space for him? that was where my initial questions were coming from. does this change anyone's inerpretation? thanks alot.

[millie]

so i just asked - what's the best approach for me to take regarding us moving in together? i got 46 becomes 40. an emty city isn't good, but mount chi sounds great. just warnings when two lines are so different?

[lightofdarkness]

54 covers the notion of an immature/premature action or person. The original 3 indicates sprouting, the new and so possible difficulties.

From an ICPlus perspective your question suggests:

(a) a focus on issues of values
(b) about what could be ("what if"?)
(c) undefined (are you instigating or reacting?) and so gives us two generic states to deal with but BOTH cover issues resolving around security seeking, lack of trust in another/others etc.

The water focus covers issues of protection/conservation - issues of supply of protection or necessities of life.

The wind focus covers issues of a need for supervision/umpiring/auditing etc and so a focus on time to cultivate due to possible anticipation of 'wrong doing' that needs to be smoothed-out.

The overall concern seems to be on issues of security seeking - a common issue when moving in (water covers the emotion of rejection/rejecting. Wind covers the emotion of anticipation of wrong doing (later refined into positive issues of cultivation etc)

The indication is these issues need to be discussed and clearly defined for both, otherwise each assumes things that are not assumed by the other.

[dobro]

Geez Millie, just do it (grin).

"so i just asked - what's the best approach for me to take regarding us moving in together? i got 46 becomes 40"

Regarding you moving in together, the Yi's imaging things moving up to a higher level in a way that releases tension and moves beyond difficulty. It's a time of real attainment for you, and the Yi counsels getting in touch with whatever source of spiritual guidance you use, whether it's a person (preferred) or something else )(a book, perhaps). Don't worry - it's a good time to put the situation in order.

So - approach the situation in the knowledge you're moving to a higher level, and contact higher wisdom and don't worry.

[millie]

hi. i'm on board with both LOD and DOBRO. we do have a few more things to discuss to make sure we aren't making assumptions about what this living arrangement will look like. and - we need to just go for it and do this. there is great love between us. we are also different in some important ways. we both want to be sure we are going about this in the right way. we want the best possible setup for our lives together and don't want to make any super big mistakes. it sounds like taking things step-by-step leads to reward.

[lightofdarkness]

You will need to follow the path of wind with its focus on cultivation. Review the hexagrams:

46, 18, 48, 57, 32, 56, 28, 44

46,18 pair cover issues of getting more entangled with 18 being particular about neglect issues in communications, to start off the smallest 'difference' needs to be addressed such that confidence is built - but not then left alone, there is always some maintenance required.

48 and 57 cover foundation setting for future development, 32, 56 cover issues of commitement and the need to 'cook' the 'raw' to make it palatable. 28,44 cover issues of 'excess' both negative and positive in that excess includes going the extra distance for someone/something etc. (and 44 adds 'fun' in the seductive emphasis)

The transition then is to water and so 'us' vs 'them'. That then leads into mountain, refining quality control, and on into earth with its focus on unconditional devotion and trust (working backwards form earth, mountain covers 'little' betrayals, cross back into water and that is a path of major betrayal and on into wind where there is no trust as all - all is in need of 'cultivation' ;-)

Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

.... there is some trust - in time and issues of change (raw to refined, increased entanglement, commitments, going beyond the norm etc etc)

All yin based hexagrams cover these issues of trust in another/others whereas the yang-based hexagrams cover more issues of trust in oneself (and so the hubris that can come with too much yang! ;-))

[millie]

hi lightofdarkness - i'm not sure i follow you. i know where you get the 46 starting point above, but where do all those other hexs come from you, and why do you end up at 44 when my reading ended up at 40? i know you are trying to be helpful with these interesting ideas or qualities of emotion, it's just that i'm not seeing how they specifically relate to my reading or my question.

[jesed]

Hi Millie

I assume that you had made the decision on living together (so this is not part of the question)

I assume that your question is not about "to do/no-to-do", but "when is better to do"

I i'm right, i suggest you one question:

"general diagnosis of the Time of our plan to moving together" This aproach allows to derivate a time-frame advice

Best wishes

[millie]

good way to frame the question. thanks. i'll try that.

[lightofdarkness]

Millie, the list I gave you is the binary ordering of hexagrams with wind as base. The list represents all of the structures associated with issues of lack of 'immediate' trust in another/others and so a need for cultivation.

Given my analysis of your original question, not what was divined by whatever method you use, your focus seems to be on issues of security seeking, issues of current lack of trust and so need to make things well understood to start with and develop ('cook') over time.

In this mapping I commented above that it leads us to water and wind trigrams and your comments indicated favouring wind since things are to develop. I therefore gave you the list of wind hexagrams to consider in this moment.

The binary sequence is superior to the traditional in that it is the 'natural' sequence from self-referencing of yin/yang. The traditional sequence is DERIVED from the natural, as are MANY other possible sequences and as such are 'specialist' perspectives.

With the binary we can map out structural and proecedural dynamics of the IC - see such pages as http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/IChingPlus or the essay listing page http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/newindex2.html

or try out the page on mapping your emotional states to current context:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

Chris.

[exnihilo]

"answer was 3.2.4.5 turning into 54.
i'm freaked about the 54.
anything else i've asked about with this man is 31s and 53s and lots of 2s."

I don't like it. I think 54 is about the fact that you'll be putting yourself in an inferior position by living with this man without the benefit of marriage. Been there. Don't that. Will never do it again.

[millie]

chris - thanks. you are right-on.

"Given my analysis of your original question, not what was divined by whatever method you use, your focus seems to be on issues of security seeking, issues of current lack of trust and so need to make things well understood to start with and develop ('cook') over time. "

exnohilo - i hear your concern. i hold that one also. but i'm thinking it may be ME that's putting myself into this secondary role, not him. i'm the one who thinks i need to start doing his laundry and the dishes, because i may not like the way he does them and because i may want to be in some control. but he's not asking me to be in these roles. i need to take a close look here. i don't believe the reading was an automatic -- the situation or this man will put you in a secondary role.

[peace]

Millie:

Didn't you write less than a couple of months ago about another guy you were very much wanting to have a relationship with?

Perhaps he is on your mind and think he is a possible option.

Rosalie

[millie]

why do you think this is a different guy?

given whathe and i have talked over the last few days, i asked yi again about the topic of us moving in. got 42 unchanging. looks good.

[peace]

I thought it was a different guy since the one you had been referring to hadn't answered a few of your e-mails and you were upset - at least that's what I recall - could be wrong.

[femke]

Hi Millie

Just a quick reaction. My thoughts on the "empty city" and "Mount Chi" in 46 are to make room for him and honour the relationship, maybe introduce him to your "house-gods".

Love, Femke

[void]

46,3 I always found usually means theres no obstruction to your plan as such but theres nothing there to be found either. Its an empty city, no one guards it, no need to, theres nothing there.

54 I think isn't just about an actual kind of exploitation - can be more subtle. Like when someone is just with you, or you with them because you fill a certain role in their life, yet they don't really see or know you for who you really are.

I'm with Rosadas initial take on this question on her 21/4/06 post.

Then again if its what you want go for it, if it doesn't work hopefully release will be easy 46 - 40 ?

[millie]

well i'm having second thoughts about the whole relationship. i know that may come across sounding like i'm unstable. i do have loving and caring feelings for him and see a future for us. and i'm scared. i guess it's just some things we discussed this week that bother me. he's noted some habits of mine that bother him. and although i do have some room for improvement in these area, it's also mostly just who I am. he needs to decide if he can accept these parts of me without having to bring it up again. there are habits of his that are not my favorite, but i know that's part of the package. so what bothers me - a little arrogance that he's 'right' about my issues. it's the first time i'm feeling bad about myself in this relationship. or maybe, it's just that i am uncomfortable with the vulnerability of imtimacy. being seen in this way is hard. he feels what happens next is all up to me. he just wants me to tell him what i want. about the empty city and Femke's post: he told me yesterday that he doesn't feel his spirit is at my house because the room where he stuff would mostly go is filled with my stuff. he feels there isn't a place for him at my house. he's right. i haven't yet made space. why? mostly i think i'm just scared about the next step. it might be because it's too soon, and it might be because i've never lived with someone and so unknowns abound. i did another reading today about what's best approach for me with this relationship and got 58.6 becomes 10. i think my fears and tendancy to worry is making me take apart every little thing he's said that might be negative and blow it up. i think. but i do this with everything and not just him. maybe i should intro him to my house-gods as Femke says. he thinks our relationship is a gift and if we mess this up there may not be another gift waiting for us. i think this tells me how strongly he feels, or is it manipulative? he's never done anything manipulative before.

[rosada]

Hi Millie,
What's the best approach?
58.6 "Seductive joyousness. He has given up direction of his own life." Wilhelm.

Hmm, so I guess the I Ching is warning you NOT to let the pleasantness of the friendship distract you, and especially warning you about putting yourself in a position where you are no longer in charge. (Shades of 54?) Boy, that sure doesn't seem to validate having him move in just now.

I encourage you to move forward with clearing out the room and making space for him. You may find that by doing that you start to feel clearer about the relationship too. Or not. But it might be a good focus and certainly represents the original 3 and the need to sort out actual confusion.

Best wishes!

[jesed]

I suggest you one question:

"general diagnosis of the Time of our plan to moving together"

[millie]

rasada, isn't giving up direction of my own life something that happens in coming together with someone else? i mean this in a good way. if it's so bad a line reading, then why is it seductive JOYOUSNESS? isn't joy good? maybe i should find more interpretations for this line. also, he's worried about moving into the home that i own because he believes it won't be equal. so that's going on too.

[millie]

well jesed, i took your advice. i asked for an assessment of the plan that he moves in sometime in May. i received 38.6 becomes 54. the hexs dont look good but the line was amazing. it couldn't be more clear that the only problem in this situation is me. if i put down my defensive stance, i'll open to the union i've prayed for. thank you.

[lightofdarkness]

Beware of wishful thinking. This:

"he's worried about moving into the home that i own because he believes it won't be equal"

is not good and needs to be delt with through discussion not through tossing coins (or whatever method you use) The issues mentioned before re "trust of another" are very much present here and so lots of communications a la hex 18 where no stone be unturned in getting the foundations well established, no misunderstandings - if that is not done then the consequences of neglect will emerge.

[millie]

i'm with you. got the message clearly about talking through things. he wants to be sure (and me too) that we are setting a good foundation for success longterm. he wants the space to be equal. i do also in theory. i guess i'm just a little scared because i worked so hard for this house and because i've lived alone for so long. i guess the question comes down to trust of myself and opening my heart. i read this back to myself and it sounds petty. i do not intend it like that. this is just all new for me. i do love him. i think i just need to relax and let life happen. i have wanted this and now it's here.

[millie]

p.s. why do you call it "wishful thinking?" do you mean if we worry about it then we'll create it?

[lightofdarkness]

no - the issue is "i'll open to the union i've prayed for" which can allow you to gloss over issues that in fact do need some 'work'. The positive, idealist, thinking can blind one to 'business' issues that if not delt with can undermine the foundations later.

[millie]

ok, you're saying the problem isn't that i'm not open/trusting enough. the problem (maybe poor choice of word) is that there are foundational issues to be discussed. if this is what you mean then i understand.

it is interesting to me that i'm the one who has received 54 twice in connection with questions about moving in. but he is the one worried about being second fiddle. maybe i should ask about what his concerns are - maybe yi will have some insight about something he either hasn't told me or isn't even aware of himself?

[white_dog]

Millie, fwiw, I'm in agreement with Chris here. Our wishes can bias answers to fulfilling them.

I've found that when there's a series of readings regarding a particular matter, it's always wise and helpful to return to the first reading of the series, which in this case is: 3. 2,4,5 - 54. Hasty action here isn't recommended, but over time it may work out. Perseverance in small matters (such as taking time to know each other) furthers.

[void]

If its not the 'union i've prayed for' now I can't see that moving in will make any difference.

Normally people spend so much time staying over at each others places they have some idea of how living together might be. They spend so much time at each others places eventually they just think it would make more sense to live together.

Seems unusual to me to sit there thinking 'if he moves in will it be the union I prayed for' ? I mean why should it be ? It will be the same as it is now except he won't go home at night and you'll irritate each other more, probably. On the other hand its nice to have someone to come home to on a cold night.

Its like you have a preconceived idea of what it should be like, a slot or a role for him to fit into. I reckon thats the 54, you don't see him as him, just as someone who might be a candidate to play the role of live in partner.

Also of course theres financial stuff to take care of if its your house. I feel when someone moves in with you if its your house theres always a power imbalance cos you see it as your space and them as a 'guest' despite your good intentions. I know from experience of being the house owner, oh and from living with different partners over the years.

I agree with Chris, put the **** coins away and just get on with it, like talking, moving or not moving or whatever. I've never agreed with Chris in my entire life so this is a very special occasion.

[millie]

did chris say to put away the coins? i missed that. still, it's a good idea. i know when i start asking a string of questions it's because something is going on i'm having trouble listening to. i need to listen closely to me.

i hope the "union i've been praying for" isn't being misunderstood. i wrote that in response to my 38.6 line which seemed a very clear ansawer to my question about timing. jesed proposed that question and i think it was a good one. i'm not thinking moving in will make the relationship better. there is nothing wrong with the relationship anyway. it's good. mostly all this is me being anxious. that's all.

yeah, the possible power imbalance. that seems to be what we need to discuss. even as white-dog says, go back to the early toss. 3 to 54. that seems to be about difficulty surrounded by power issues.

[peace]

Millie:

This all sounds more than a little scary to me.
What is your rush?
Why not get to know him better???

You wrote:

well i'm having second thoughts about the whole relationship. i know that may come across sounding like i'm unstable.

.... he's noted some habits of mine that bother him. and although i do have some room for improvement in these area, it's also mostly just who I am. he needs to decide if he can accept these parts of me without having to bring it up again. there are habits of his that are not my favorite.....

it's the first time i'm feeling bad about myself in this relationship.
------------------------
Yikes!

[millie]

hi rosalie, i know you like little of what i say on this board and oh well, that's just the way it is. some people, like me, use the yi and this place to process their feelings. often that means that once something is expressed it's also released. exploring reactions and self discovery are a process. to take as stone anything i write longer than in the following brief amount of time would be to be behind. yes, i wrote what you quoted above and it was real and true for me at the time. but it isn't the definitive statement about me in this relationship. and once again - you offer me nothing that moves forward an interpretation of the readings or hexagrams i received, and instead insist on commenting only psychologically from your personal opinion. if that's what i was looking for i wouldn't be on this forum.

[rosada]

Oh come on, Millie! What are you saying, that something you wrote on April 28 is no longer valid on May 1st and therefore it's rude of people to quote you? We're not here just to read your random rants. We assume when you post something it's not just you thinking out loud, but that you are asking for feedback. I tried to give you feedback when I gave you a textbook interpretation of the hexagram you refered to in that April 28 post (58.6 -10) and you blew it off because it didn't suit your purpose. (Did you ever bother to research what Seductive Joyousness is all about? It is not pretty.) When you wouldn't acknowledge your own hexagram, Rosalie was gracious enough to give you a responce that didn't quote the I Ching but simply quoted you in hopes your own words might reach you - and that really curdled your cream. LOL! Look, everybody here - I think - hopes your relationship goes well but the hexagrams you've come up with are what they are and we can't twist their meaning to be something different. Further, what you yourself have written - that you haven't been motivated to clear out space for him in your house and that your wondering if this project is all a little premature - doesn't inspire anyone to feel encouraged. But even so, when it became obvious you were still intent to go forward with this move you were encouraged to go ahead, follow your own instincts and "Just do it!" But that didn't suit you either. Bottom line is, more and more it's looking like you don't want to take any responciblity for this decision. You want to say, "Oh it's LOVE" and be wafted away by a dream. Fine, happy trails. But the I Ching is a Guide, and not The Decider. If you're not willing to take responcibility for your own words and decisions you will find yourself more and more like 54, The Marrying Maiden, in situations where there are fewer and fewer meaningful decisions for you to make.

[jesed]

Hi Millie:

"general diagnosis of the Time of our plan to moving together" is no the same than "assessment of the plan that he moves in sometime in May"

Because... what if the best time for move is not in May but August? (just an example). The result of the second way would be negative, but the result of the first way would point succes in August (just an example)

The interpretation I did for your initial answer (3.2.4.5 turning into 54) was "In this answer, seems moving in is the right thing, but in that date is not the right time". I keep this interpretation nowadays: moving is the right thing, the issue is to do it in the right moment.

I sorry later in this post this aspect ("seems moving in is the right thing") was un-seen because overlook the tendential 54 (the future is not written down, one can avoid ending in the tendential if acts propperly in the propper time; and 54 is not only subordination, is also a non-legally-bounded relationship, as Millie's seems would be).

That's why I wrote "I assume that your question is not about to do/no-to-do, but when is better to do".

Best wishes

[millie]

thanks to everyone for your contributions to my reading.

[listener]

The "stuff" in the room where your friend would come has a voice.

It reminds me of a friend who is sorely discontent and wants to sell her house. She will, "as soon as I clear the clutter," she says. But the clutter never clears, and it is a LOT of clutter. The voice of that clutter speaks of much unfinished business. It isn't even enough to say she is afraid of moving and hiding behind the clutter. She is afraid of what moving the clutter will bring, because then the voices will get really loud.

Millie, your "stuff" in your room is perhaps speaking about the fact that you are not feeling ready to commit to this, but the way I see it, you have an opportunity here. Don't sit on the fence and ask the yi to confirm or discourage your hesitancy. Make a space for this man. Move your stuff. Your feelings will tell you if you are moving in the right direction. Then speak your own truth to yourself. Maybe your new voice will surprise you

The worst thing to do would be to do nothing because then you are letting other voices tell you your truth. I think right now the voices of your "stuff," the Yi, and the voices of the people here are not saying very different things. But you need a voice to come from you. Have courage to embody the question, and then embody the answer. Don't think too much.

[millie]

hi listener, thanks for the good feedback. the "stuff' is already 1/3 resolved. the fact that i've had resistence to making space for him isn't about him. the stuff was in that room long before i knew him. the resistence to taking care of it also isn't about him. the resistence existed long before i knew him, too. what is about him: the fact that i've now actually moved through the resistence to dealing with the stuff. i want him more than i want the unfinished business of the stuff.

i'm sad that rosada and maybe others think it's not possible for my feelings or behaviors could change in such a short time. strange since yi teaches us that life is all about change. what i wrote on this board is a very simpified version of what's living in my head. sure, i've been displaying some resistence to this move-in. but do not assume that the resistence is my authentic voice of truth. perhaps it's just the maladaptive protector that is holding me back from living a life? I consult the yi, i write, i discuss, i run, and hopefully, in the process, i become clear internally what is garbage and what is truth. when we read this board we only get to see glimpses of people's process and it is a gift. so much more of what happens with people between the time they throw the coins and live their lives is never revealed to us here. and perhaps that's as it should be.

jesed, thanks for clarifying the difference between your proposed time question and the one i answered. at this point i'm not throwing any more coins on this issue. i'm just going to live my life and see where i end up. i believe there are few true mistakes in life, and i do not fear making one of them.

[millie]

p.s. listener, yes, thanks for the reminder to embody the situation for myself. that is the process i am working with now. i'm moving forward with clearing the room and i'll see how that goes for me. (so far, so good.) and i've also reminded myself that moving in doesn't mean i'm making a forever committment, it is a transition. i'll know as i'm living it how it works or doesn't work for me. i will always have options.

[void]

I'm cross at how you spoke to Rosalie and

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/tongue.gif is how I feel to you

I had to get that off my chest.

Enjoy your day

Goodbye

[void]

I can't resist quoting this its a gem

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

when we read this board we only get to see glimpses of peoples process and it is a gift<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/rofl.gif Ah so what you've just given us is a gift is it ? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/rofl.gif Well thanks very much I'll treasure it forever.

Funny I thought you were the recipient of many gifts here, of which most you used up, acted on then trashed the giver.

Ah but it was YOU who bequethed the great gift of your problem to us ? Aaaah .

[white_dog]

Ruff! Ruff! rrrrrrURURURURURUR!!!!

[rosada]

You misunderstand me, Millie. I don't doubt your feelings can change. The point is that you never posted that your feelings had changed and then you blasted Rosalie for simply quoting you back to yourself. How was she supposed to know you no longer felt that way? Well, no need to keep discussing this. I just didn't want you to feel "sad'. I'd really like you to feel apologetic!
Whatever....