Hex 1 unchanging - What is X's biggest fear with regard to pursuing me? [Archive]

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 12:06 AM

Mmm, 2 completely different readings! How does one really determine what the IC is telling :)

Willowfox wow that's quite a reading. Thanks for your insight. As great as it is on one hand to consider that's how he might see me (which I believe he likely does from our history) it's also a catch 22 because I think the very same about him! And I wouldn't want any one to be afraid of me or me to be afraid of them - not a great foundation for love...But I understand it could be more afraid in an "exciting" sense rather than a terror sense.....I hope so!

Mike and Enmedio thank you for your insight too. At least I know what Hex 1 can also be about. I agree that my question assumption may be wrong i.e. he may not fear pursuing me like you suggested - but Mike not that he hasn't thought about pursuing me because I know from our past encounters how much fire and mutual admiration there was between us.....and even with regard to the fear question, I got a very strong sense that there was some fear in him pursuing me further, for various reasons - one in particular that he actually told me he felt "uncomfortable" with me and that he's never felt that way with other women!! Which could be a great thing or a terrible thing, but I'm pretty sure it's the first :) There were other clear signs too i.e. he got totally stumped with communication (basically couldn't communicate) as soon as we seemed to make a real deep connection, as well as there being clearly amazing chemistry between us and loads of compatibility.

Enmedio (and at times Mike) while I appreciate your alternative insight into my problem, I have noticed that you tend to jump in and criticise a lot about people's questions - what they ask and how, before simply attempting to answer the question in an obvious way. I understand this is part of learning how to use the IC, but in your own words the IC is "easy" and we should ask simple straight forward questions for a clear answer.....which I very much did. Your first reaction is to think negative! i.e. that the question or assumptions are wrong, but I know the history of my situation (as do most people on this site who post about themselves). Furthermore, when I ask my questions it's usually because the IC has pointed out something that has led me to ask that next question. Therefore we naturally ask a question on the basis of assumptions and we don't necessarily give the entire history of the situation otherwise we could be here forever! There is also the issue of wanting to get a clear objective reading i.e. if you give too much of the situation away in your own words and thoughts, the intepreter might be influenced by that. Willowfox seems to have the right approach in that she offers an immediate response to a very clear question - while she doesn't/hasn't got it right every single time (how could anyone unless they know the entire situation - the IC has several different interpretations for the one reading), she at least offers one very clear and obvious interpretation of the situation.

The assumptions that we make form part of a basic trust that responders such as yourself, should respect and appreciate rather than patronise and suggest that we have it all wrong! otherwise there's no point really in prying into people's problems.... Sorry but I see a lot of that going on on this forum.

It's an assumption on both your parts to assume that people who post questions about their own situations don't actually have a grasp on those situations!!

You should perhaps consider this and attempt to answer the question in a clear straight forward way before jumping in to say that it's wrongly phrased or it's an incorrect assumption. Maybe both views would be helpful in learning about how to interpret the IC better :) i.e. respond in a trusting straight forward manner (like Willowfox did) and then offer alternatives about possible misconceptions and assumptions.

And Enmedio with all due respect (as I am unsure of how long you have been learning the IC) you are listed as a junior member so perhaps it would be wise to approach other people's problems with a little more sensitivity and humility, as it is quite a privilege to be invited in to respond......

Blessings to all of you. I hope we have all learnt something from this reading :)

Jazzy

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 12:49 AM

This is all in your thoughts at the moment. Your question assumes that he first wants to pursue you and then secondly that he is frightened to do this for some reason.

Mike and Enmedio, regarding assumptions and question phrasing.....

My question was "What is Xs biggest fear with regard to pursuing me?"

i.e. the focus was on "biggest" with a (rightful) assumption that there's at least one fear, if not more, that he would have. I wanted to know what the "biggest" fear was so I could get an idea of its magnitude i.e. was it something petty/minor? something about himself? something to do with money or my professional status? etc. In other words, was he deeply fearful or was he not really fearful but maybe just nervous in an excitable way?

To suggest that a human being would have absolutely no fears with regard to pursuing someone in love would be a total misconception on your part i.e. there will always be some fear even if it's tiny or just based on excitable nerves! I just wanted to know what that was and the magnitude of it.

So in this sense, my question was phrased absolutely correctly. It also wasn't at all assuming that he was seriously thinking of pursuing me at this moment in time (even though I believe he has at least definitely considered this). Based on our past experiences it was asking about what his "biggest" fear would be "with regard to pursuing me" i.e. in thinking/considering about pursuing me what is his biggest fear?

Again, it would be great if members would approach other member's problems with some sensitivity, not to mention not making assumptions of their own AND reading the questions clearly...

thank you once again

J :)

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 01:01 AM

In order to shed final clarity on whether I was on track with this question and situation.....

I just asked the IC

"At any time in the past has X considered pursuing me?

and I got 29 unchanging

Karcher says:

"Repeating the Pit. the Ghost River.
There is a connection to the spirits that will carry you through.
Hold your heart fast! An offering brings you success.
Making a move in the face of danger brings honour."

He goes on to interpret this as.....

"...describes your situation in terms of repeatedy confronting something dangerous and difficult. The way to deal with it is to take the risk without holding back."

and ".....a danger confronted and used is both an accomplishment and a defence. Now is the time to concentrate your forces and take risks."

And LiSe says this about 29

"To get out of dangers or misery is not by solving problems. It is by leaving the fear. In the arts of fighting one learns to get used to danger, so it does not call up fear anymore, and defense can come entirely out of one's skill. No fear interfering.

They both seem to be saying a lot about holding our heart fast, overcoming our fears and taking risks.......

namaste
J :)

enmedio de la tierra

April 26th, 2009, 03:28 AM

I didn't say you asked a wrong question
I didn't say you actually have wrong assumptions

I only said what years of real experience (not based on how many post you made) teaches... most of times... and there are exceptions

I mean.. I didn't say anything about your life; I only talk about the way to make an interpretation of the text, based on years of studies and experiences.

Search for Hex 1 unchanging in this site. Look at those cases when people return to share the outcome.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=5340
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7236
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4204
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4067
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=60

and it goes and goes and goes....

Blessings

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 04:04 AM

I didn't say you asked a wrong question
I didn't say you actually have wrong assumptions

Huh? Enmedio this is what you said the first time......

Most of time, there are exceptions of course, when someone gets hex 1 unchanging it is a sign that the assumptions behind the question are wrong.

.....so yes you did suggest that "the assumptions behind the question are wrong" :)

Also, I checked out those other links (thank you) and they mostly refer to Hex 1 as the inner creative energy that Willowfox inferred, NOT about assumptions behind a question or that as Mike inferred, it was all in my head.

In this link.....

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4067

.....Bruce even distinguishes between asking about another's thoughts for personal gain or to understand more clearly so as to help i.e. that if we're asking to understand more clearly then we may very well receive a straightforward response.....as does Chris (lightofreason) when she talks about symmetric and asymmetric motives. Obviously I clarified that my question was not at all about personal gain but more to understand what X might be feeling and where he might be coming from.

Then in that same post Listener says this....

Even though I think the Yi can be "abused" by too many futile questions about relationships in the form of "(s)he loves me , (s)he loves me not"...well maybe not abused, but misused.... I ALSO feel that it will very effectively give you a glimpse of what you are dealing with in terms of another person's stance. Many, Many times it has given me an accurate "heads up" on the way another person is thinking/feeling/behaving.

And while Dobro and a couple of others express their frustration and annoyance about people asking the IC what other people's thoughts are, I agree with Listener in that there are times when you do need to ask the IC what another person is thinking, so you can get more of a grasp of the situation and how to better deal with things etc. Isn't that all part of the IC helping us??

SO, I'm confused as to your latest response Enmedio. If anything these links confirm my original point about your first response i.e. that my assumptions when asking the question weren't incorrect, which is the ONLY interpretation you offered.

If you read the links yourself you will see that Hex 1 unchanging refers to an underlying powerful creative energy......and even if you were to point that back at me as the querent (as some suggest Hex 1 is about), it still makes sense that this underlying powerful creative energy refers to me, which is what Willowfox was saying.

I asked the IC yet again a third different version of the question....

"Is X very confident with regard to pursuing me?" and I got 44 unchanging.

I think if you go back and follow from my first 2 questions above where I received Hex 1 unchanging and Hex 29 unchanging, you would agree that there is a pattern of fear there i.e. that X is likely fearful of pursuing me because he sees me as too strong a force..............

Persisting with this discussion will only perpetuate this in me! So I am going to retire gracefully and work on not being such a strong force all the time.......

namaste
J :)

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 04:22 AM

The assumptions that we make form part of a basic trust that responders such as yourself, should respect and appreciate rather than patronize and suggest that we have it all wrong! otherwise there's no point really in prying into people's problems.... Sorry but I see a lot of that going on on this forum.

Some readers can be straight out, plain rude on this site, with a holier than you attitude, but if you want to continue, either ignore their answers or find and press the ignore their posts button.:p

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 04:28 AM

Willowfox wow that's quite a reading. Thanks for your insight. As great as it is on one hand to consider that's how he might see me (which I believe he likely does from our history) it's also a catch 22 because I think the very same about him! And I wouldn't want any one to be afraid of me or me to be afraid of them - not a great foundation for love...But I understand it could be more afraid in an "exciting" sense rather than a terror sense.....I hope so!

You think he is hot but you are not afraid to play(wicked) and he thinks that you are hot but he appears to be afraid to play. Don't forget some men feel intimidated by powerful women, that is why he may feel "uncomfortable" around you. You are just too hot for him to handle, if he doesn't reach your standards his male pride will be severely hurt.

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 04:41 AM

"At any time in the past has X considered pursuing me? got 29 unchanging

Yes he has, it shows that the desire/passion is in his heart but he considers you to be "dangerous", not in a bad way but that you may well chew him up and spit him out when you are done with him. Like I said before, I think your very presence intimidates him.

Edited to say that Karcher is not on my list of reliable I Ching authors, some of his interpretations are really strange. Personally I never consult any of his writings, some things are just plain incorrect.

enmedio de la tierra

April 26th, 2009, 04:42 AM

For those willing to learn

In the first link, bricogirl understood hex 1 unchanging like "yi being enthusiastic" about her project. The real outcome: At this time I'm planning on reframing my project a bit and thinking more of who is my audience

In the second link, simona understood hex 1 unchanging as a confirmation of his belief (no matter if her friend denied it). The real outcome: Trojan, thank you. I know it was not the good question, but I was to shocked and confused to think straight...I am still confused, so I decided to stop thinking about this for a while, and then I'll ask the questions trojan suggested

In the third one " [I] realize in hindsight that it's a silly question, and maybe, that's why I don't understand the answer."

In the fourth one, Jesed said Now, in the tradition I had learn (and my experience), hex 1 unchanging doesn't answer your question, but reflects that you are attached to some kind of stubborness about the issue. Is like a gentle human adviser that tells you: "ok, I understand why you are doing this, but asking me that won't help you". The real outcome...James wasn't the good match, real love etc for august moon, despite what Willowfox predicted.

In the fifth one, pagan said I don't know how many times I have received hexagram one, unchanging, or with line five and I think WOW! a dynamic new beginning, creative juices flowing! And I then expect that something really exceptional is coming to the situation. But what experience shows me is that hexagram 1, though not negative, is far more neutral than it is exciting and dynamic and creative

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 04:58 AM

Just noticed this new question.

"Is X very confident with regard to pursuing me?" and I got 44 unchanging.

Read the Judgement for this hex;

"Coming to me. The maiden is powerful. One should not marry such a maiden."

Here there is a domination theme, you, soft and squidgy, enter into a relationship with him, then you morph into a brazen woman who literally takes over his life. So, back to the question and its answer, which is no he is not confident, he is minding is own business and you seduce him, you make the first move in order to ensnare him.

I hope that makes sense?

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 05:06 AM

For those willing to learn

And perhaps willing to read and understand the question posed, as I seem to remember the question was about the man's biggest fear and not the outcome of some action that a person wishes to take. Perhaps I need to go to "spec savers" and get some new glasses?

:confused: :p

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 05:41 AM

Here there is a domination theme, you, soft and squidgy, enter into a relationship with him, then you morph into a brazen woman who literally takes over his life. So, back to the question and its answer, which is no he is not confident, he is minding is own business and you seduce him, you make the first move in order to ensnare him.

thanks once again Willowfox :) this is all spot on with how thing went in the past and how I imagine (based on our history and limited communication) he might still feel now. But it would be great to clarify whether this reading reflects the 'now" or how things played out in the past (probably both if he hasn't moved on in his mind).

What you're saying here about 44 is essentially what already happened (sounds worse than what my intentions really were!!). But yes he was minding his own business and I caught his eye (which was totally out of character for me - not judging myself because I wish I were more forward in snaring a man :) but just saying it how it really is). So yes in essence I made the first move and while things did start off soft and squidgy, there was a really bad turn due to the fact I discovered he was actually still entangled with someone else - a liaison that he told me was on its way out, but nevertheless he was still entangled with at the time we met. And because of this liaison he pulled away from me i.e. to do the right thing. I reacted with full force (the brazen woman you refer to) angry and somewhat bitter in my words because I was in a bad state at the time and wasn't very centred (getting over a past relationship and a family suicide) plus I was genuinely hurt, plus he was trying to relieve himself of all responsibility when I was actually the innocent one :mad: and it takes two to tango. At least my intentions were genuine and pure at the time. I really liked him a lot and felt a great connection and assumed he was available because he made himself so for several weeks. But with all that said I can see how he might think what you've interpreted above....

How terrible if he still feels that now because it's more so the exact opposite i.e. I feel HE is a very controlling person but even with that said I don't mind so much because I felt such a connection with him and that it was such a right match that I was quite happy to soften and follow this one because i really felt love.........I'm not getting any younger and I've evolved enough to know myself really well and not lose sight of "me", to be able to "follow" the man I love comfortably...

OR is this 44 response saying that he's not confident so I should make the first move??

.....which ain't ever gonna happen :) because i tried to make peace many times and he didn't take up the opportunity. I would only ever make a move in the way of giving him a sign if we actually bumped into each other again or if he ever got in contact again.

SO.....I asked the IC about the "now"......

"Does X believe now that I will try to take over his life if we were to get together?" and I got 51 unchanging

(This is the first time I've asked a trail of questions and received all unchanging hexes by the way - which is why I felt the IC was giving me a clear response on each one)

I'm confused about 51 unchanging too :confused: which I understand to be a wake-up call. Is the IC saying that he needs to wake up to the fact that I'm not like that.....or is the IC telling me to wake-up? If so, about what??

Thanks as always Willowfox. Even though we can never be 100% sure about a situation through the IC, I believe following what we do know at least sheds light on how people might see us, which in turn helps us to behave better hopefully :o

J :)

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 05:59 AM

Edited to say that Karcher is not on my list of reliable I Ching authors, some of his interpretations are really strange. Personally I never consult any of his writings, some things are just plain incorrect.

Yes I'm finding that.....sometimes he's just right off compared to what other sources are saying :confused: I usually also check Wilhelm and LiSe's online book to try to get a general gist of the line, so with all 3 sources I get some idea.....and then for the really important and confusing ones I end up on this forum ;)

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 06:21 AM

I asked one more peace of mind question so I know whether to invest any more energy into this man and these feelings........

"Am I really off track in thinking that X will contact me again one day?"

I got 57.1.5 > 26

57.1 Six at the beginning means:
In advancing and in retreating,
The perseverance of a warrior furthers.

All I can interpret on this one is that I did advance and advance - both at the beginning of the relationship and then in order to make peace down the track. And then definitely retreated when I felt I had done all I could, so he hasn't had any sign of me anywhere for the past 3 to 4 months (i.e. not online anywhere and not through any mutual friends). He has no idea what I'm up to really or what I'm thinking, whereas he has in the past via various sources...

57.5 Nine in the fifth place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse vanishes.
Nothing that does not further.
No beginning, but an end.
Before the change, three days.
After the change, three days.
Good fortune.

Which Wilhelm translates as...."The beginning has not been good, but the moment has been reached when a new direction can be taken. Change and improvement are called for. Such steps must be undertaken with steadfastness, that is, with a firm and correct attitude of mind; then they will succeed, and remorse will disappear......Before a change is made, it must be pondered over again and again. After the change is made, it is necessary to note carefully for some time after how the improvements bear the test of actuality. Such careful work is accompanied by good fortune."

This is obviously an advice line BUT aside from advising to persevere, correct my attitude, carefully consider etc. is the line about the 3 days before and after, telling me anything in particular??

Overall, does this mean I can be on the right track.....

Hex 26 seems to be about self-renewal, leaving the comforts of home where they are and facing the road ahead handling personal power when the time requires it i.e.

Perseverance furthers.
Not eating at home brings good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.

But I'm still confused with that one too...

J :)

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 08:01 AM

"Am I really off track in thinking that X will contact me again one day?" 57.1.5 > 26

Not really off track at all, line 57.1 suggests that the guy cannot make up his mind what to do, oneday he will and the next day he won't again, once he gets his courage fixed then he will. Then line 57.5 says that he knows that he can improve the situation between if he just makes up his mind and tries but he is probably still trying to work out what to say to you, like in offering an apology for a start maybe.

Hex 26 Also, suggests that 'oneday" ( I wonder if that will be around September?) he will have the guts to speak to you again.

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 08:32 AM

I can't thank you enough Willowfox :bows: This has been such a heavy and intense situation in my life and one that has affected me so much that at times it's been devastating and overwhelming and totally beyond me :confused:

Your responses in this whole thread have given me such a clearer understanding of how he most likely sees me and the situation, which in turn has helped me gain some peace in my heart and mind about it. Funny, even though I hope with all my heart he does drum up the courage, by consulting the IC this time around and getting your help, I feel I've healed a great deal i.e. accepting more how the situation played out and the repercussions of that and that life needs to just be.......

Mmm, you say September.....there's a significant link there. Our meeting anniversary date is the 1st September and exactly a year after we met (after we hadn't spoke for several months) I chose that day to call and leave a peace message for him and an invitation to catch up. He didn't respond (of course!) but I always still wonder whether he made the connection and realised the sentimentality of my timing.

Can you explain how you got September from this last reading??

4 months seems such a long time (sigh) but then again I've waited oodles of months already, so what's another 4 :)

bless you greatly for the effort you put into this forum :bows:

Jazzy x

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 08:48 AM

"Does X believe now that I will try to take over his life if we were to get together?" and I got 51 unchanging

This hex is about personal fear, and it suggests that he has still not recovered from the "shock" of seeing you angry, so I think that there is he still has a fear of you deep within him and that is also why he can't make up his mind whether to contact you or not. It further suggests that he has to really sort his feelings out before things can get back on the road between yous, a lot of self examination needs to be done. But he needs to get over this fear problem, and that is the real obstacle here preventing any communications.

Just wave your white flag or send him a single white flower?

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Yes well if I knew where he lived now I would.....and his work place is a university so it would just get lost in the mail bag! Maybe I should call him and play Dido's White Flag song. It says it all! But he's a muso too so he might not appreciate a chick tune :rolleyes:

I like the white flag or flower idea. I'll work on it :) Although I have sent him peace offerings in the past before......

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 11:47 AM

Some readers can be straight out, plain rude on this site, with a holier than you attitude, but if you want to continue, either ignore their answers or find and press the ignore their posts button.:p

Some readers have a conscience. I haven't seen anyone being rude in this thread, just honest.

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 12:24 PM

Mmm, 2 completely different readings! How does one really determine what the IC is telling :)

Enmedio (and at times Mike) while I appreciate your alternative insight into my problem, I have noticed that you tend to jump in and criticise a lot about people's questions - what they ask and how, before simply attempting to answer the question in an obvious way. I understand this is part of learning how to use the IC, but in your own words the IC is "easy" and we should ask simple straight forward questions for a clear answer.....which I very much did. Your first reaction is to think negative! i.e. that the question or assumptions are wrong, but I know the history of my situation (as do most people on this site who post about themselves). Furthermore, when I ask my questions it's usually because the IC has pointed out something that has led me to ask that next question. Therefore we naturally ask a question on the basis of assumptions and we don't necessarily give the entire history of the situation otherwise we could be here forever! There is also the issue of wanting to get a clear objective reading i.e. if you give too much of the situation away in your own words and thoughts, the intepreter might be influenced by that. Willowfox seems to have the right approach in that she offers an immediate response to a very clear question - while she doesn't/hasn't got it right every single time (how could anyone unless they know the entire situation - the IC has several different interpretations for the one reading), she at least offers one very clear and obvious interpretation of the situation.

The assumptions that we make form part of a basic trust that responders such as yourself, should respect and appreciate rather than patronise and suggest that we have it all wrong! otherwise there's no point really in prying into people's problems.... Sorry but I see a lot of that going on on this forum.

It's an assumption on both your parts to assume that people who post questions about their own situations don't actually have a grasp on those situations!!

You should perhaps consider this and attempt to answer the question in a clear straight forward way before jumping in to say that it's wrongly phrased or it's an incorrect assumption. Maybe both views would be helpful in learning about how to interpret the IC better :) i.e. respond in a trusting straight forward manner (like Willowfox did) and then offer alternatives about possible misconceptions and assumptions.

And Enmedio with all due respect (as I am unsure of how long you have been learning the IC) you are listed as a junior member so perhaps it would be wise to approach other people's problems with a little more sensitivity and humility, as it is quite a privilege to be invited in to respond.....

Blessings to all of you. I hope we have all learnt something from this reading :)

Jazzy

LOL wake up Jazzy ! "junior member" only means number of posts on forum, nothing to do with knowledge. The question hasn't been answered in an obvious way..there is no obvious way for such a fuzzy question based on false assumption as yours was. Having some experience i guess Mike and Enmedio were simply pointing that out to you...but you don't to know that...you are quite happy to be spoon fed what you want to hear .

Respect was shown to you by assuming you were intelligent enough to understand that a question based on an assumption was not going to lead you far..but you didn't want that you wanted the quick fix of having your assumption confirmed that this guy is wanting to pursue you. There is nothing in the readings to make a definite statement that he even wants to...if there ever could be.

"it is a privilege to be invited to respond" :eek: :rofl: oh really ? how so ? ..you ignored the people who were being honest and hooked onto the one who fed your dreams..thats all.

All i have learned is once how again how sadly gullible people can be...again..

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 12:44 PM

"you ignored the people who were being honest and hooked onto the one who fed your dreams..thats all.

All i have learned is once how again how sadly gullible people can be...again..

Hello dreamers and escapists,

Dr. Fox is now on call, and ready to give any gullible I Ching enthusiast a quick fix with my patented elixir created by my mother, Shyster Fox. My elixir is guaranteed to make your dreams come true, no one gets turned away, no one is left disappointed, everyone's a winner, baby. Honest indian!

:p

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 12:53 PM

Some readers have a conscience. I haven't seen anyone being rude in this thread, just honest.

Please read the small print. I said site, not thread.

Honesty = sarcasm = rudeness?

:p

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 12:58 PM

you ignored the people who were being honest and hooked onto the one who fed your dreams..thats all.

Please, nobody say that awful name, be warned, anybody mentioning the name (willowfox) will instantly change into a toad.

Ah! Too late, trojan didn't heed the warning in time, hi, sorry I mean, croak, croak trojan.

:eek:

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 01:28 PM

LOL wake up Jazzy ! "junior member" only means number of posts on forum, nothing to do with knowledge.

:duh: Wake up yourself Trojan!! I wasn't referring at all to knowledge which is why I qualified in brackets about that. I was referring to the fact that Enmedio was new to the forum and hence might consider approaching members problems with a little more humility being a newcomer :rolleyes:

The question hasn't been answered in an obvious way..there is no obvious way for such a fuzzy question based on false assumption as yours was.

Yawn (there isn't an emoticon for that one...) Knock Knock Trojan. We've already gone over that ground. You've obviously done some selective reading! No assumption made on my part. The question was based on a past information that I was privvy to. Read the whole post next time :duh:

Having some experience i guess Mike and Enmedio were simply pointing that out to you...but you don't to know that...you are quite happy to be spoon fed what you want to hear.

Is that what Willowfox does? Spoonfeed? Yum, I might come back for more then. Funny she's feeding a whole lot of people on this forum. Actually from what I've read of postings from the past 4 years her and Dobro (and aside from Rosada and Hilary in the Exploring Divination section) seem to be feeding the masses......Does this mean Hilary disapproves too? It is afterall her site so I'm thinking if she had issues with Willowfox's interpretations she'd be acting on it ;)

Respect was shown to you by assuming you were intelligent enough to understand that a question based on an assumption was not going to lead you far..but you didn't want that you wanted the quick fix of having your assumption confirmed that this guy is wanting to pursue you. There is nothing in the readings to make a definite statement that he even wants to...if there ever could be.

Yawn again....wake me up when you've read above

"it is a privilege to be invited to respond" :eek: :rofl: oh really ? how so ? ..you ignored the people who were being honest and hooked onto the one who fed your dreams..thats all. All i have learned is once how again how sadly gullible people can be...again..

Aha! Obviously some personal issues going on in this forum. So Enmedio and Mike are honest and Willowfox isnt? Mmm now there's some food for thought....No dreams being fed here Trojan unless you believe nightmares are dreams :confused:. I can't see how Willowfox interpreting some very blunt truths about the situation (including some unfavourable ones about my contribution and how X might see me) is feeding my dreams!!! That would be more along the lines of someone telling me X was about to call me with a huge apology and declare his undying love for me, which isn't remotely anywhere near what Willowfox offered!!

And isn't it funny that I might actually know MY situation better than Mike and Enmedio and that the IC just happened to give me all those other readings........instead of a 1 again to tell me my assumptions were wrong!!!

How rude you are and have been in the past on other posts. It seems particularly with boy/girl type scenarios. Are you sexist?? Do you have issues with women who might (heaven forbid) be emotional about a relationship situation??? Do you really believe so many women are gullible and dreamy and don't really know their own situations well enough to ask a simple question based on knowledge not assumption?? I'm still stumped as to how you Mike and Enmedio (funnily enough all men) ASSUME that my question is based on an assumption :duh: And even without that information from me,hHow disbelieving and patronising you are!!

There are facts I know about MY situation straight from X's mouth and I'm a Law and Psychology student so there's no gullibility (or dreaminess) at the end of this keyboard. Just some honest emotion and a very practical approach to a personal, intense and sensitive situation.

Did my situation hit a raw nerve with you perhaps?? I'm blown away by your aggressiveness when in fact my post to Enmedio was absolute fair play given he didn't at all qualify or extend on his response except to suggest that Hex 1 meant my question was based on assumption! What an assumption on his part having read my question incorrectly and having assumed I knew nothing of my own situation!!

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 01:40 PM

My response is based on jazzys reaction to to fairly mild suggestion that the assumption beneath the question may be wrong. And indeed i hardly associate hex 1 with fear of any kind..more like the answer was a denial there was fear, that this is a man doing his own thing...with a will of his own. Your answer Wfox could apply and so could others...but Jazzy immediately clung to yours and launched into attack on other approaches under the illusion that people were queuing up to give her readings and that they were 'privileged' to do so :confused: having picked the answer most suited to her she proceeded to ask other questions based on further false assumptions coming away with the idea that this guy is definatley only held back from approaching through fear. I reckon she could well be entirely wrong and hanging on will only make her more deflated a little further down the road....

still countless females seem to go through this very same process here every day of the week...we never know what happens to them, I just don't see that many coming back to say "reader i married him".

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 02:06 PM

still countless females seem to go through this very same process here every day of the week...we never know what happens to them, I just don't see that many coming back to say "reader i married him".

such a narrow view of what females actually go through when they go through this process Trojan. Perhaps it's time to update your manual :o

.....and yet such a convinced strong assumption on your part (based on Hex 1) that this man is doing his own thing and has no fear because there is no thought on his part of pursuing! How would you possibly know that? :confused:

I have facts straight from the horse's mouth and from a mutual friend (a male one) and from my own intuition after being with him.

Why would i get 29 unchanging for my question "At any time in the past has X considered pursuing me? or 44 for my question "Is X very confident with regard to pursuing me?"

Neither of these questions are based on assumptions except possibly the 2nd one and if that were the case I wouldn't have received a clear 44!

Or "Does he believe now that I will try to take over his life if we were to get together?" receiving 51.....if this was an assumption and he's not even thinking about such a scenario then why would I get 51???

Trojan rather than throw all my questions into one bucket and again assume they are based on assumptions, wouldn't it be better to address each one and evaluate them accordingly??

And its hardly empirical evidence that just because females don't report back on this site some months or years later re their outcomes, that they necessarily had contrary outcomes to that which has been offered by Willowfox or anyone. Circumstances change and evolve too, so what stood at one time is not necessarily relevant down the track.

I have asked the IC numerous times in the past what X is thinking about me/us and whether he is thinking about contacting me again. Does this mean the IC is just bullshitting me like Willowfox is supposedly doing when it gives me an 18 or a 53 or any outcome for that matter? This is a real situation Trojan NOT some fantasy in my mind as you seem to be suggesting. I'm under no misapprehension that Willowfox or the iC or anyone for that matter can predict the future or exactly know what someone else is thinking, but if the IC isn't a guide then what are we all doing here on this site??

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 02:11 PM

Jazzy no i don't think I'm sexist, I am a woman, but i have noticed since reading these forums how tiresomely narcissistic women are in their questions to the Yi on relationships. Its usually "what does he think of me" "is he in love with me" etc etc in other words its all about them. And when anyone suggests another interpretation than the one they like they go nuts, like you did...a long diatribe about a simple sentence that your question may be a false assumption...

still it was your suggestion that one person should show 'humility' and that we were 'privileged' to respond to you that really sort of tipped me over the edge into repsonding where normally I have learned its best to stay quiet...

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Okay Trojan, so with no (dreamy subjective) input from me, how would you interpret this one...

"Is X thinking about me?"

I got 3.5 changing to 24

Wilhelm says: Nine in the fifth place means:
Difficulties in blessing.
A little perseverance brings good fortune.
Great perseverance brings misfortune.

"An individual is in a position in which he cannot so express his good intentions that they will actually take shape and be understood. Other people interpose and distort everything he does. He should then be cautious and proceed step by step. He must not try to force the consummation of a great undertaking, because success is possible only when general confidence already prevails. It is only through faithful and conscientious work, unobtrusively carried on, that the situation gradually clears up and the hindrance disappears."

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 02:17 PM

And "Is X thinking about pursuing me?"

I got 46 unchanging

PUSHING UPWARD has supreme success.
One must see the great man.
Fear not.
Departure toward the south
Brings good fortune.

No assumptions on either of these last 2 questions - just straightforward questions...

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 02:18 PM

such a narrow view of what females actually go through when they go through this process Trojan. Perhaps it's time to update your manual :o

Trojan rather than throw all my questions into one bucket and again assume they are based on assumptions, wouldn't it be better to address each one and evaluate them accordingly??

As I said i am a woman so don't need a manual. Your anger only shows how desperate you are to defend your reality. if you want defend your reality fine, but don't get angry when in response to your public posting people see your reading objectively. As a woman I can more clearly see how one great weakness of women is narcissism, hence no real love for men. Its been said men don't have real love for women when they see them as objects but i now see the inverse is also true, men can't be loved when women only see themselves as objects to be admired and pursued.

Jazzy since you said we were 'priviledged' to offer you an interpretation and must show 'humility' I will not ever address any one of your questions ever again..I sincerely do not regard it as a priviledge so will leave you in the capable hands of those who do regard it as such.

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 02:23 PM

still it was your suggestion that one person should show 'humility' and that we were 'privileged' to respond to you that really sort of tipped me over the edge into repsonding where normally I have learned its best to stay quiet...

You focused on 2 words that in the end weren't as strongly placed as you believe :)

With humility I was implying some sensitivity. Perhaps I used the wrong word :mischief: And "privilege" was in the context of the posts being about very personal sensitive issues. Neither word was suggesting a hoity toity-ness on my part about people desiring to read my posts and participate.

I do believe it's a privilege to interpret someone else's reading. Just because the forum is public doesn't mean there shouldn't be some sensitivity in approaches to situations and therefore responses.

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 02:32 PM

Its been said men don't have real love for women when they see them as objects but i now see the inverse is also true, men can't be loved when women only see themselves as objects to be admired and pursued.

Where on earth did that come from??? :brickwall:

Who ever said anything about being an object to be admired and pursued?? I couldn't be further from that philosophy! The reason I asked about being pursued is because X is a very macho and traditional kind of guy when it comes to women i.e. doesn't at all like to be pursued unless he is leading (and by the way that's not an assumption - he actually told me that!). Furthermore, given the history of the relationship I am not at all in a position to pursue SO i do NOT see this as an asymmetric situation where I'm to be admired and chased, but rather the realistic situation that it is.

Stop bashing women Trojan. You seem to have some major issues there about women's behaviour. Speak for yourself or not at all. Even from the postings on this site it would be extremely difficult to make an assumption or evaluate a woman without actually knowing what they're really all on about.

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 02:34 PM

Most of time, there are exceptions of course, when someone gets hex 1 unchanging it is a sign that the assumptions behind the question are wrong.
Blessings

This is all in your thoughts at the moment. Your question assumes that he first wants to pursue you and then secondly that he is frightened to do this for some reason. This is all your creation, maybe he hasn't even created the idea of pursuing you yet for himself.

Mike

I'm at a loss to see how these comments were insensitive.

willowfox

April 26th, 2009, 02:41 PM

still countless females seem to go through this very same process here every day of the week...we never know what happens to them, I just don't see that many coming back to say "reader i married him".

Ah! Perhaps you don't see or wish to see them coming back, but some indeed do, you just ignore those. But if you went over to another site where I read, then you will see quite many replies. Even today I received a reply about a reading I did for a woman 12 months ago, spot on as they say. Okay, i am not always right but I do the best that I can to give a correct answer, and you have seen that some of my answers have been very negative, so your assumption of my feeding peoples dreams to just nasty vindictiveness.

trojan

April 26th, 2009, 02:50 PM

Where on earth did that come from??? :brickwall:

Who ever said anything about being an object to be admired and pursued?? I couldn't be further from that philosophy! The reason I asked about being pursued is because X is a very macho and traditional kind of guy when it comes to women i.e. doesn't at all like to be pursued unless he is leading (and by the way that's not an assumption - he actually told me that!). Furthermore, given the history of the relationship I am not at all in a position to pursue SO i do NOT see this as an asymmetric situation where I'm to be admired and chased, but rather the realistic situation that it is.

Stop bashing women Trojan. You seem to have some major issues there about women's behaviour. Speak for yourself or not at all. Even from the postings on this site it would be extremely difficult to make an assumption or evaluate a woman without actually knowing what they're really all on about.

how many times do i need to say I am a woman :brickwall: a woman making a pretty general observation about male/female relations. In the light of what I've seen on this shared readings forum the narcissism of women is way more than I ever thought as is the capacity for self delusion. Thats not bashing women, theres an equal/opposite kind of dynamic happening in men..and many would say female narcissism is directly due to male objectification of them..but i think it may be more fundamental than that, who knows, if you are a psychology student you should be learning about these ideas not just unthinkingingly calling them 'bashing'

rosada

April 26th, 2009, 05:15 PM

my_key

April 26th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Hi Jazzy

To take the closing line from your original post

thank you once again if anyone can shed some light....

There does appear to be quite a bit of a commotion created by a whole bunch of honest people who were all trying to shed some light.
Reading the thread here it does look like quite a lot of light has been shed on the question you asked.
Funny how the IC works at times:)

Take Care
MIke

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 11:08 PM

What is X's biggest fear in regards to pursuing me?

Hex.1 is about creating and continuing. Perhaps he is comfortable with the way things are between you and doesn't want to initiate any changes. Doesn't want to start anything he wouldn't be sure he'd want to continue.

Thanks Rosada. That makes a lot of sense too as a possible read. He was a self-confessed commitment phobe when I met him, but also claimed to want to be responsible towards women by not just picking up or having flings. Whether the latter is/was true or not I don't know. But the first claim about being a commitment-phobe rang true with his relationship history i.e. a few 1 to 2 year relationships and a lot of travelling.

So in response to my question it would likely be a big "fear". Plus there's the issue of our history and the fact he would definitely be doubting us as a couple given the damage that already took place.

I guess what I've learnt about the IC is that when you aren't 100% sure about a situation it can only give you a range of meanings. Until you really know the exact truth, you'll never really know the exact truth....

cheers
J

jazzy

April 26th, 2009, 11:59 PM

There does appear to be quite a bit of a commotion created by a whole bunch of honest people who were all trying to shed some light.
Reading the thread here it does look like quite a lot of light has been shed on the question you asked. Funny how the IC works at times:)

Yes there has been Mike. To the point that we've come full circle on the situation! A bit like a multiple choice question where the answer is "all of the above".

While I feel the situation is just as hopeless as I when I started asking, I appreciate everyone who has offered any interpretation of the readings - without "spoonfeeding" me I can at least try to piece the story together based on those options and learn how X might be viewing the situation (if he is at all). But I do like Willowfox's approach in staying in there and following the story/trail of readings. It puts the interpretations into better context.

From Rosada's last reading of Hex 1 (to my original question) along with all my other following readings I get a clear sense that X is not comfortable in approaching me and not desiring to, even though the thought may have crossed his mind. But that there is always potential for him to get to that point, but that a lot of inner work needs to be done.

This rings true with his history as I know it....X was abandoned by his mother at age 4 (not a street type abandonment but nevertheless she left him with his grandmother and stopped caring for him). Any Psych book (or common intuition) will tell you this would have caused a great deal of damage and issues with women in general. He admitted this very briefly himself. In addition he fell in love with a high profile actress when they were in their late 20s. It was a mutual love match but things went awry when she to and fro-ed too much about their future together (possibly an immature ego thing on her part) so he did a dramatic thing and just walked - pretty much did what he did with me - just cut her off. But he was just paying her back because he really loved her and believed they'd end up back together. Instead within 2 years of them splitting she found great love with one of our country's most respected veteran musician/actors, a much older guy too so X had not only lost his great love but was publicly humiliated and his own budding acting career went downhill because the doors closed on him. So when I met him at age 37 he had a half-baked Law degree, a failed acting career, a still bruised ego (after 10 yrs) and was doing fringe theatre and working in a cinema. He also had issues about growing up in a "very poor" working class family. Yeah, loads there :eek:

I know he had issues about attracting women who "had it together" i.e. in his eyes success, a profession, money, good looks etc. because he told me so. He told me in a very brief bitter retort how those women haven't gone for him in the past (whereas they went for his lawyer friends etc) and it was in the context of him not really having a profession....He was surrounded by a lot of flitty 20-something actors with not a lot of substance (I act myself so I have nothing against actors - these were just very flitty) and while he seemed somewhat ego-stricken he didn't seem at all interested in pursuing them so there was another sign of where his ambition lay in terms of women........So there I was (a women who had it together in every sense but the emotional I guess) and he was just overwhelmed and because of the sensitivity between us and the mess that ensued (my harsh retaliation), he ran. I think he convinced himself I was a catalyst. He told me I was a catalyst for him finally disentangling himself from this liaison at the time that was all a bit iffy (it hurt being called a catalyst). But I think he saw me as a catalyst for other things too because he promptly went off and completed the last bit of the Law degree then got a job teaching ESL at uni and who knows, possibly also worked on his finances and seemed to be trying to rebuild his acting career. I saw that as good - being a catalyst doesn't mean you don't get first prize too :) but as it turns out he never did return....

But that doesn't mean I can't hope that he will, or that he never will. The compatibility and chemistry we had, not to mention the dramatic peak that many love stories thrive on, all lead to the possibility of an incredible love affair and enduring relationship. While my heart holds out for that, it also stays open for someone new.

So I guess I'm none the wiser on where to go from here and yes the IC works in funny ways. At least thrashing it out has been good therapy and I feel the IC has confirmed what I already knew about how he saw me and that will hopefully allow me to heal more.

If he has such a narrow view of me so as not to even talk to me as a friend then that's his problem. I have made enough attempts to explain my part in the whole debacle (the family suicide, the relationship before him etc) but if he's not open to listening then that's entirely his choice and I have to just respect that. If he's not comfortable with speaking to me then I can't change that. I just wish he would leave my heart after all this time. It really is getting beyond a joke :o

thanks again

J :)