To speak or not to

[unsubscribed_cm]

I had a question a while back about something I was considering sharing with others.

My question was: "Should I mention X to others?"

The response was:

31.1.2.3.4 to 60

At first I interpreted this as a NO

But,
If i'm to interpret any of this Yijing correctly
it's ever giving advice on method rather than black and white yes or no.

Also reading other people's description of 31 describes more than just courtship:

HSIEN : come into contact with, influence; reach, join together; put together; put together as parts of a previously seperated whole; come into conjunction, as the celestial bodies; totally, completely; lit: broken pieces of pottery, the halfs of which join to identify partners." ERANOS p362


Then these four lines: seem to describe much better what i've been going through in deciding to speak of this with others:

Line 1
"Influencing one's big toe. [In humans, the intention to move is betrayed by the movement of one piece of anatomy before anything else - the big toe of one's dominant foot. To begin anything we start with the big toe.]"
Line 2
"Influencing one's calves. Danger. Sit. [Apparent strength hides inner weakness (weak foundations), if you 'stand' now you will fall]."
Line 3
"Influencing one's thighs, Keeping to one's course. A regrettable move. [The power of the thighs pushes us up, ready to 'say our piece'. In this situation though, a certain level of deference is required.]"
Line 4
"Although in testing times, one's problems will be gone. A level of Indecisiveness (hesitation, coming and going) suggests one should consider joining with others. [Hesitation and coming and going can be associated with erratic breathing; influencing the middrift.]"

I think i'm at stage four if one was to take this as a chronological order of events. Which would be a pretty rigid interpretation.

Then I remembered how 60 was translated as articulating.

Well I'm leaning towards that now already as I'm at least getting help on the divination.


Any assistance in interpretation would be most appreciated.
:bows:

[willowfox]

The general advice after considering the lines and then Hex 60 is, no, it is not advisable, look to hex 60 as self imposed limitation.

[unsubscribed_cm]

Do you have any idea why? Or any reason to fear doing so?

As I've already mentioned it to a few people.

[bamboo]

It seems as if the 31 is all about your deliberation as to whether to mention it or not, and that 60 can be the result of that....ie, you're inclined to talk about X, but dont want to talk impulsively about X or rashly talk about X, you think it over and then articulate carefully, choosing when and to whom and how much you say. 60 is about setting your own limits, and sometimes there is a final element of "okay, you've mulled it over and you've carefully considered, now go ahead and talk about it. dont have to limit yourself to the point where you feel mute or paralyzed by indecision."

[willowfox]

It is fine to mention this matter to people. This oracle resolves to 60.5. Both an 'auspicious' prognostication and an indication that going forward is praiseworthy.

I again disagree, the oracle does not resolve to line 60.5, this idea is only hearsay garnered from some dead guy.

Anyway, its your life, your decision, go with what you think is best for you.

[willowfox]

It is fine to mention this matter to people. This oracle resolves to 60.5. Both an 'auspicious' prognostication and an indication that going forward is praiseworthy.

Are you reading line 60.5 or some other line?

As the line indicates that he must place limitations upon himself, by not telling anyone, he needs to set an example to others that he can indeed keep his mouth closed.

[willowfox]

60.5, yes. The meaning you are reading for this line is from the Song dynasty commentarial tradition. If you look at the Chinese of the original Zhouyi you will see that there is nothing about setting an example to others by placing limitation on oneself. On the contrary, it is about earning esteem by setting forth.

As for the words of dead men that you keep going on about, have you considered that your entire view of the I Ching is based on the words of dead men? And not only that, dead men who in certain cases are demonstrably wrong in their interpretations. In what way does placing limitation upon oneself and thereby holding back correlate with the actual oracle text indicating that esteem comes by going forth?


That's right earning esteem by keeping one's mouth closed, limiting what you say and therefore setting guidelines for other's to follow in the future, perhaps there is a lesson for you somewhere in line 60.5.

Oh! I thought the I Ching was invented by Bill Gates.

[willowfox]

Look at the Chinese: 往

This character occurs 58 times in the Yi. It means 'to go'. This means going forward. It doesn't mean keeping one's mouth closed and setting guidelines for others. Esteem comes from 'going'. When 'going' is used in the Yi it means doing the thing asked about. You can disagree if you like, but try backing it up with some solid argument.


So, your basically saying the Lynn, Wlhelm, Balkin et all, are wrong and you are right. Lovely, you should write a book, "The idiots alternative guide to the I Ching".

Remember the original question or have you forgotten it, it was about spilling the beans or not, and this line, as is the Hex itself, about limitations, self imposed or otherwise. Perhaps you should reread it.

[willowfox]

All, well and good but as I mentioned before, this line 60.5 has no place in the reading, so quote who you like, as Bill is the boss and I still believe that he invented the I Ching along with the nuclear bomb.

[willowfox]

Lynn you obviously need to re-read.

Why?

He says much the same as everyone else, except you of course, so here we go again, when setting forth, or thinking of taking some type of action, indeed like blurting out a piece of news, then one needs to control those impulses, and that will bring self esteem. In other words, one should certainly limit what you were going to say, and thus not make a fool of themselves by telling every tom, dick and harry the news.

[willowfox]

You say that 60.5 has no place in the reading, yet you have just been making a case for how it --

Presumably you have a good reason why this is not tripping yourself up.


I am amazed you are still yapping about this silly line. I am not tripping myself up at all as the discussion is purely hypothetical.

[willowfox]

First, it's not about self-esteem, it's about esteem in the eyes of others.

Second, controlling impulses is not the meaning of going forward. If you are so sure, then concentrate on explaining 'going forward' in a way that sounds like 'going forward'.

If others feel good about you, then one feels good about oneself.

Going forward with a desire to tell someone something when one should control(look at Lynn, his word) and keep quiet, this will win praise form others.

[willowfox]

You simply don't grasp this line.

Fair enough, then show your interpretation of this line in the context of the question asked.

Have to go now but look forward to reading your dubious reply later,

[willowfox]

Do you have any idea why? Or any reason to fear doing so?

As I've already mentioned it to a few people.

I think your action of telling people will come back to haunt you later on, there will be repercussions down the road as you have said much more than was wise.