Wei wu wei writings

[pedro]

Ive been reading through this most interesting author who used the pseudonim of Wei Wu Wei on the WWW Archives (http://www.weiwuwei.8k.com/).
I invite you all to share his genuine wisdom, and leave you with a tasteful sample about the meaning of Tao:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

What is the use of talking about the objects of consciousness, whether they be thoughts, sensations or hot-water bottles? Objects must have a subject, subject-object is a pair of opposites, like all others, which are two halves of one whole. That whole is whatever you choose to call it. But as Reality has Unreality as its other half, Being - Non-Being, Absolute - Relative, and so on ad infinitum (even 'non-dual Consciousness' is opposed by 'Dual Consciousness', 'Pure Consciousness' by 'Impure', 'Universal Mind' by 'Particular'), either a term that has no apparent meaning, that is unconditioned, such as 'Tao' must be used and on the understanding that it must necessarily be identical with 'Non-Tao' - whatever that could be, or else both pairs of opposites must be used together. And why not? Does not such a composite term help us to realise what it implies? 'Reality - Unreality', 'Consciousness - Unconsciousness', 'Absolute - Relative', 'Universal - Particular Mind', 'Duality - Non-Duality', 'Dual - Non-dual Consciousness'. In other words - TAO.

There can be no objects of consciousness anyhow: there can only be subject-objects which are Consciousness-Unconsciousness Itself. Everything is just - TAO

* * *

Mind versus Matter is unreal, like all dualism, but Mind-Matter as a suchness is real. To realise the latter is at least as important as it is to realise the former. Usually, however, the former alone is pointed out - and the unfortunate pilgrim is left with the impression that both are unreal, whereas, in fact, each is unreal but both are real.

Each half of every pair of opposites is unreal. Both halves of every pair of opposites, united in their quiddity, are Reality-Unreality, or Tao.

The reunion of every pair of opposites renders them non-dual.

That is approximately as far as words can carry one towards understanding the nature of - TAO. <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

[pedro]

Well I guess I'll have to reply myself, as I think there are some really good lessons to be learnt here. This is not so nice, and perhaps one has to be ready to realize it, but in any case I wouldnt be fair to myself if I didnt bother, and so Im going to pest you one more time. Just ignore it, if you (still) can.

The words of W.W.W. are not new, and thank goodness for that, as he himself puts it. Yet he provides what I find a very clear (although some people I've shown it seem to be clueless as to what he's talking about) explanation of what the real buddhism and real zen is all about. Stripped to the bare essential, and presented in a way that we cant help but to understand.

I have spent my whole life looking for answers, collecting pieces of knowledge, refining my vision of myself and of the world, till there was no piece of evidence left unquestioned, no though left unturned, at least as far as the limits of my own imagination and knowledge would let me. But as soon as I started reading W.W.W.'s I realized the most important thing: there is no point in pursuing this intellectual quest anymore. There is nothing more I can learn, no answer to be sought elsewhere. Not that I know it all, I just realized the futility of looking for any answers. Knowledge can take you so far, but then "the young dragon has to take his dancing leap over the deep" (zhouyi: 1.4).

I realized beyond any doubt that knowledge and reasoning could not take me any further along the way, quite the opposite now. What came as a striking intuition was the simple fact that I only had to put everything down. Everything! I realized that all the chinese texts, all the Buddha's hints for attainment could be summed up into one single chinese character: wu!!! (without). Not even wu wei, as wei is already something and we have to lay down everything. Not even wu itself! we have even to lay down the intention of laying down. That is all that must be done, the only real method, the only real answer and the only real cause for anything.

I realize that Ive been taking crippled strategies to succeed in the so called ego transcendence. We cant fight fire with fire, and we cant reach mind with mind. Trying to be or act so and so is just a waste of time and effort. There is no point in trying to live in a wu wei fashion, either we do it effortlessly, ie naturally, or there can be no result in trying to force it, trying to live like that (or any other way). All doctrines are pointless, all practices are inconsequent. It all just reinforces the ego strength, the attachment to the conceptual, rational though that is indeed the one thing preventing us from realizing the unity. We can shout at our ego that he isnt there, but that will only reinforce its own conviction of existence. Each time we negate it, we re-affirm its existence as a separate entity. The egoless living is consequence, rather than cause of the enlightenment process. What we have is to dismiss the ultimate concept ingrained in our minds, that there is a subject separated from an object, the ultimate dualism.

To transcend dualism we can never work with one half of the pair. For instance, we cant attain enlightenment through love (alone). We can devote ourselves to giving love but that will only be a clinging to love itself. What we have to do is take both (unreal) halfs of the (real) whole, love and hate, in this case, and realize they are ultimately the same thing, mere marks on an arbitrary scale, made by our limited dualistic perception of the whole of reality. The same can be said for all dualisms. The subject (pseudo-I) separated from the objects of perception (we realize there is no subject/object, that is purely conceptual, even that object we call ourselves), the past and future, separated from the present (there is no time, only and eternal present our limited perception is unable to apprehend, because it lies in the interval between thoughts), love and hate (arbitrary marks on a scale of pure feeling), knowledge and ignorance (marks on a scale of pure awareness), etc.

All dualisms are false, when taken separately, one half only, and all are overcome by a change in our perspective, looking at BOTH of them as a whole, integrating them into a real wholeness. In W.W.W.'s example, we can look at a coin and identify with the effigy of one side, or the symbols of the sovereign on the other, or we can look from above and realize its just a piece of gold.

I can only compare it to what a child must experience when looking at life for the first time, before there are any concepts, before there is the initial I-concept of a separated existence. What did we see then?

Regarding free will, some interesting thoughts are provided (it seems once more we've been kidding ourselves). Actually as I came to realize from WWW's explanations, the actions of the body, our conditioned, dualistic body, are predetermined and fatalistic. Period! There is no free will whatsoever to be found in the conditioned world. Actually what most people refers to as free will is just satisfying their egos, imposing their will. Isnt it the ultimate presumption to think that our petty ego desires can shape our future at will? What about everyone else's petty desires? No, Im afraid its crystal clear, we dont have free will as conditioned creatures. We can only go with the flow, or go with the karma, as karma is just the flow, the force of circumstances. Only when we free ourselves from the ego's illusion of separation, we are able to really exert free will. But then it is not our will, as there isnt a we in the first place. Once we've freed ourselves from the erroneous I-notion, we become one with the cosmos, and its will is our (unconditioned) will.

Anyway, I had to free my conscience and stir you all a little more into understanding these basic messages, which are just "a pilgrim's collected fruits shared by the side of the road" as he so nicely puts it. I just loved it, made me realise the final lesson, that there is no lesson, and I just had to share it with you.

I probably wont be contributing much to this forum from now on. There is no point for me, I dont need to discuss anything anymore. Sure I could try and "help" people, but there are many people needing my help in the "real" world, and I realize that the best way I can help anyone anywhere (including myself) is by freeing myself in the first place. I dont feel this urge to search for anything anymore, to discuss it or analyze it any further, cause I realize thats precisely whats been hindering me so far. I may come here once in a while to see how youre all going, to kill "saudades", but I wont be contributing regularly here or elsewhere on this matters. I just want to find my nothingness before anything else. Then, well, who knows...

Thank you all for bearing with me so far. Its been fun!

Love you all (and trying to hate you all as well) http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/heart.gif

[martin]

Hi Pedro,

Quotes:
"All doctrines are pointless, all practices are inconsequent."

".. made me realize the final lesson, that there is no lesson, .."

I love that!
I think one of the problems with us humans is that we have this habit of interfering with ourselves. As long as we do that we are split, 'I' try to change 'me'.
Spiritual practice is just more interference, it creates more trouble and doesn't solve anything.
Somewhere along my 'path' (a path that in fact was nothing else but running in circles) my game of I-try-to-change-me dropped away.
Don't know how that happened. I didn't do it. Grace ...
Later I wrote:

As a child I was one
Later I became two
And as two I talked a lot

Now I am one again
And I don't know what to say

[tashiiij]

Awww Pedro

wasnt ignoring this post, ...just couldnt respond cause i havent read this guy wu wei's work. geez im just gonna speak from the gut here cuz i feel like it. y'know, i am never really that comfortable with posting here cuz i usually hate everything i say later!

if youre going to leave this forum,cuz it's time to practice in a different way, well then go for it. its true there is no point in discussing, if thats how you look at it. but sometimes it's the thing to do. y'know, discuss. and you never know when something is gonna spring to life. in spite of it all.

personally, i feel bad discussing things here cuz i have a rather specific view from a particular buddhist experience, and i dont want to sound preachy or like im trying to convert anyone. YUK!!!!!! YUK!!!!!! YUK!!!!!

im intetested in all the views expressed here and love reading whatever people put up. from love stories to divination discussion. my posts arent really well thought out, but what the hell. mercury was retrograde when i was born.

when you postedx this wu wei thread, i wanted to tell you about this guy ive been reading -- this guy john zerzan --who is called an 'anarcho primitavist'. i find his ideas are very interesting in relation to taoism. he has some essays collected in a book called 'running on emptiness, the pathology of civilzation'. he argues against technology, language, and civiliztion. says farming brought about the end of the gatherer existance, and that language is a way to distribute labor, that language is not related to thought.

(which is my expereince cause otherwise how could clairvaoyant tibetan lama's who speak no english whatsoever know my thoughts, as they do? how is it a native tibetan who spent his whole life practically in a cave and speaks no english suddenly gives me a teaching in perfect english?)

this guy zerzan's stuff about farming, well i can attest to that. i grew up on a farm, nearly 300 years running now, which is as old as you can get in the united states and boy the misery doesnt stop. you know i lost 5 people in one week in a plane crash, immediate family members, and have had to fill in their shoes ever since. the insanity that runs in farming. people think farming is so romantic. well, i invite them to spend a year with my family and see how romantic it all is!!! suicide, insanity, tragedy and numbing amounts of sheer hard labor is the norm in farming families. and a farmer is never free to roam.

anyway all this legacy of family suffering brought me to seek dharma teachings and try to end all this suffering for myself and my family. yes suffering, but also great amounts of deep deep love. they have given me so much, they have given me everywthing, and i wish to give it all back to them, especailly my mother who lost her children and gave everything she could to us, carrying us all on her back.

so what does all this have to do with your post? i dunno you spoke from your heart and it moved me.

this guy john zerzan, --s its interesting if you think about ancient chinese history, the gatherers taken over by the feudal kingdoms. about the tao not being able to be spoken. anyway, im just reading it and thinking about it. cant go live in a tree yet. interesting though cuz when machig labdron became enlightened she took off all her clothes and sat in a tree. after that she went about in dirty places, with the 'low' people, and she was free. you know my sister did that whedn she was alive and they locked her up in a mental institution. there's a fine line between insanity and enlightenment. our society is so hostile. but if the tao blesses you, you can be safe, like bodhidharma was. just be wise when you take your clothes off!!!!

what else did i want to say to you, before you go.

umm yeh good luck.

martin said this thing i loved in a different post. about the end of the master student relationship. to me the master sutdent is a love story, for me the ultimate, but i really hope we can find out how to still do it even though the masters are rare or disguised as a dog.

there was something else i wanted to say but cant remember. mercury retrograde. if i think of it i will post.

[pedro]

Hey Tash, thanks for sharing these thoughts of yours, love you posts as always http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif
Youre right each one has his own path, and I think I just found mine, at least I found that no path will ever satisfy me, as what Im searching for isnt attainable, because we already have it. There is nothing to reach, but the comprehension that we have it all already.
Anyway, I wasnt complaining that no one replyed (or was I? well, it was mildly disapointing, but then I reminded myself that to each its tao). I think one has to feel an urge for this matters to actually pay attention, or even consider it. I just didnt wanna leave without sharing this clue I found which for me constituted an epyphany of great proportions.
Most people dont even wanna consider discarding their ego (yet). There is a sense of loss, of falling into an abyss (1.4), a void, and that falling feeling needs some getting used to.
There is so much I already learned here, and so much still to learn, I think that goes without saying...
What I realize now is the futility of conceptual thinking insofar as transcending my ego is involved. Thinking and reasoning are precisely what prevents the realization. We need to discard all thoughts/concepts if only for one single moment. That is just IT.
The Buddha explains it clearly on the Diamond Sutra, and Huang Po's texts are also conclusive about this. It not WWW's invention, he merely is translating that into words appropriate for the western consumer.
Thanks for the supportive words and sharing your personal experience. Made me understand you better http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif That guy you mention seems interesting. I also believe that most of our civilizations maladies are caused by us attempting to shelter ourselves from nature. Could there be any thing more unnatural?
And there is no need to go live up a tree, although the thought has its charm. The sage savours without savouring (ddj 63), and he can pretty much live in society cause he's free from it. Thats what we have to realise, we wont change in any way, we will only be able to see it all! There is no loss, afterwards, but we are loosing most of it now!
It may be hard to lay down everything, even for instance our loved ones, but we will come back, no doubt, with an infinite strength, and an egoless desire to care and provide for them and everyone else. Wouldnt that allow us to give them much more than we now?

Love,
pedro

[pedro]

Hey Martin,
Loved your little poem http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

You said: "I think one of the problems with us humans is that we have this habit of interfering with ourselves. As long as we do that we are split, 'I' try to change 'me'. "

Yes, I think that is what is meant by living in accordance with the tao, the ever present flow. If we try to resist, we can never win, but if we let ourselves will the same as the flow wills, then we'll be having our way http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[val]

Pedro...

Interesting revelations you're having. You know I relate. I really hope you aren't seriously leaving the forum...she said selfishly. Your wisdom and understanding of the Yi are very valuable to some people... *pointing at selfish self* And geesh...I just love you. I hate to see you go.

I have to say I just knew you were going to get to this point when you went to the place where there's no judgment, no illusions.

And I love this..."to each his own tao" Ain't it the truth, though. That one's a keeper.

One thing I've noticed is that some people try to look outside themselves for this "enlightment," this magical awareness, and there's a few lines in the Book about "trying" to go over your "supervisor's" head and straight to the "CEO." I firmly believe from my own experience that one has to look inside oneself, and when one sees what's there, one sees so much more. I think when we look inside and really see who we are and love who we are, we find the thing we're looking for.

Well I do hope our taos cross again...*grin*

Oh and...I liked the message much better in your words than Wei Wu Wei's words. It was real. Thank you.


Martin...

"Somewhere along my 'path'... my game of I-try-to-change-me dropped away."

Hallelujah Brother Martin!

I love you too.

Tash...

Yeah...what the hell is right...*grin* For what it's worth, I don't hate what you write. I love what you write. This last post was great!

I love you too.


Val

[davidl]

Tash,
I was born when mercury was stationary!

Pedro,
Come back soon!

[pedro]

will too http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[pedro]

Hey, Im not leaving for good, I just wont be so participative from now on. I just have to talk less and do more, thats all
Thank you Val, Tash, Martin, David and all for all your kind words and support
I wish you all the very best http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[tashiiij]

Hey Val, about this inside outside stuff. You know, if I had never sought things outside myself i would have never left the farm!!!! I would be some kind of bundled up introverted closeted religous nut or something. I would never have found things of real value to bring back to my family. You know my family only gave me skills to survive on the farm, not in the world. So one HAS to go outside oneself.

I know this is not your point. I think things outside ourselves offer catalysts. Uhh, the YiJing fer instance. Of course there is a certain chemistry or alchemy which has to ignite the whole process. Pick the right ingrediants and pow!

Maybe some people are such complete units they dont need to do this as much as others. Its possible.

David, ...Mercury stationary. Hmmmm. : )


lov to ya'all.

[val]

Hi Tashi

Yeah you did miss my point. That will teach me to try to be subtle.

Never mind. It wasn't important.

Love,

Val

[tashiiij]

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which is the hexagram for 'so sorry val' : ( ?

(crying) tash.

[tashiiij]

(puddle of tears tash)

[hilary]

Pedro, I hope if you do try tree-dwelling, you find a beautiful one. I'm another one of the people you've given a lot to - thank you!

(Does anyone else find it glorious how completely gratuitous autumn colours are? I've been walking through the most amazing luxury ankle-deep leaf-carpets today...)

[val]

oh no Tash...

Not you too...I'm crying my eyes out right now...but it's about something that happened today.

I literally meant it's not important...just like Pedro said. How I feel about the individual and spiritual seeking is not important to anyone but me! This is a truth that has been slowly been revealing itself to me since I joined the forum.

I just don't have a lot of words to explain myself right now. I'm trying to write a post in the Danger thread...I think you'll understand once you read it.

I do love you very much Tash,

Val

[tashiiij]

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/blush.gif
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yes i love you too val.

[tashiiij]

Hilary --

samesame.

last night walking/driving dark country roads for hours colored wet leaves flying like bugs / plastered to the wet roads dont know why but went into madness seeing themthem.

[val]

Acorns crunching under foot.
Mallard hens calling for their mates (and making me laugh...it sounds like a clown laughing).
Squirrels scurrying past with autumn debris for their nests clasped firmly in the jaws...

[johnro]

Hi Pedro,

I have nearly all his books.

I bought them about 10 years ago from Adyar Bookshop, for a song.

I am not sure why, but I actually bought two copies each of The Tenth Man and Posthumouus Pieces.

Last year I gave away the spare copies to a friend.

I later on, found the website and saved it.

Somewhere I found out that the books(used copies)are worth a small fortune.

Oh well, I still have most of his original copies and I would not sell them because they are true gems.

He was a good friend of Douglas Harding, whom I have had the good fortune of attending of attending a two day workshop-Called head off stress.

Kind Regards,

P.S; I have downloaded all of the website with webcopier which is a brilliant program.

This gives me time to read some of his earlier works like, "Ask The Awakened, Why Lazurus laughed and Unworldly wise"(Offline).

[yellowblue]

Johnro,

Sorry I missed something... went back to see and couldn't find it. All of who's books??? sound interesting....

Maybe this is a case of the scottsman's horse who didn't look so good... : )

Deb

[yellowblue]

BTW, if this is Wei Wu Wei I've overlooked the obvious.. typical to miss what's at the ends of the spectrums for me ; )

Deb

[johnro]

Hi Deb,

glad you found it.

If you find Wei Wu Wei's site(which is easy enough)it is well worth adding it to your fav's.

Kind Regards,

Johnro

[pedro]

<FONT SIZE="+0">Hey everyone http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif I realise now I was being a bit extremist (see below), I hope you dont mind I share a few more thoughts, fragments of my own (sinuous) path .

We pursue knowledge to a point, looking for the answers, only to find there are no answers but not-answers instead. Then one discards everything in search of nothingness, yet nothingness is still somethingness, and one realizes there is no solution on either extreme: the only path that can be treaded is the middle path.

<BLOCKQUOTE>26 Great Image: "(the) noble disciple applies (the) abundant knowledge (of) early words (and) past practices in order to develop his virtue"</BLOCKQUOTE>
But its not enough to know the way, one has to live it!!! Nothing is really understood until it is lived. Each step, in the real and metaphorical sense, must be done with the consciousness that one is treading the path (Zhongdao).
To (dis-)understand emptiness is important, in order to discard the vices brought up by conceptual thinking. The mind has to be taken to the point where its ready to shine in its original beauty, but then the method is no longer effective. Something must trigger the sudden realization, something external. The void itself is still one half of a dipole, nothingness versus everythingness, and so it cannot take us beyond dualistic thinking, any more than reasoning can. Even nothingness is somethingness. In the end one has to drop even dropping itself. Phenomena, what we call the universe, is as much illusory and devoided of reality as it is real and tangible, and the only way to realize both these truths at once is to walk on their border. That is the middle way, realizing both halves of every 10.000 dipoles we built our existences upon, and integrating them as whole, the only way they can be integrated: together.
<BLOCKQUOTE>49.3 "Revolution (when) discussion three (times) around. (Then) be sure"</BLOCKQUOTE>
The path is a fine line, suggested by reason but on the verge of madness. It requires a delicate balance, and the courage to discard all that is superfluous. It only seems painful. We have crude misconceptions ingrained in our subconscious, but eventually it becomes apparent that what is painful is carrying this load all of our lives. No doubt, it can be somewhat of a revolution, yet it is one each and every one of us will have to face, sooner or later. And when the times demand, we cant oppose revolution.

In practice, one has to turn the focus of our attention. Separation shows itself as the ultimate illusion, moral itself just another convention, yet something pulls us along the true road. We flow with the changes, certain that nothing can emprision us any longer. The power is boundless cause there is no need or want that can make us lose balance. Yet we have everything and can do anything.

Its so easy to start along this path, yet also so easy to abandon it. In any case, until we realise this is indeed the path, we are mostly kidding our selves. But once we do, its still not enough to know it, one has to live it.</FONT>

I suspect its actually fun http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[pedro]

Johnr, nice to hear from your perspectives, seems you had a lucky brake with those books (Im sure you deserved it http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif)
Got curious about that Douglas Harding workshop, anything worth noting?

Cheers then
Pedro

(ps: I didnt mean for those big characters in the previous post, not trying to start off a new trend or anything)

[johnro]

Hi Pedro,
thanks for reply.

There is a website for Douglas Harding...http://www.headless.org/english/main.html

Among his published works are:

ON HAVING NO HEAD-Zen and the rediscovery of the obvious.

THE LITTLE BOOK OF LIFE AND DEATH.

HEAD OFF STRESS.

Let me quote him,

"To deal with our stress,we have to make a fresh start and call in question our basic assumptions and beliefs.This is daring to experience our experience,daring to be ourselves and to discover what a huge proportion of our stress is caused by forsaking direct experience for socially acceptable formulae".

Congratulations Friend, it seems you are only a short distance, from "Taking the Mountain Path"

Some of the true giants, of the final understanding are;

JEAN KLEIN....Recently Deceased....Has a website;www.jeanklein.org

BARRY LONG...www.barrylong.org


You need not give up the I Ching, but eventually you will have no need for questions,you will just be informed every moment.(this, of course, does not mean living life unpractically...Questions of course are needed to deal with practical issues of living)

There is only Understanding.


Understandingly,

Johnro

[val]

Pedro...

Thanks for the whole new perspective on the middle way.

Love,

Val