Understanding Western Biases

[sunpuerh]

Eastern thought concentrates on the energy aspect of how things work
while Western thought attempts to break things down into separate
modules. It is wise to remember that one cannot really separate the
medium, question and the diviner each into a separate category. We
call this process "the miracle of the three" Yin and Yang interacting
to cause the 10,000 things.

Many people from ever seriously considering such arcane traditions as
the I Ching, astrology, alternative healings techniques, etc. because
they simply can not explain "how it works".. And even when they see a
stunning demonstration of "it working" they still remain basically
unconvinced and suspicious that they've been duped in some manner they
can't explain.
When we look at this situation we realize just how important
"rational explanations are to us". We somehow feel more comfortable if
we can delineate the mechanism of phenomena and thus can place it in
its proper niche in the scheme of things.
I think our understanding of the world of the I Ching is greatly
enhanced by our recognition of our mental biases and eccentricities
and by attending to the fact that a mental attitude and cultural
environment thoroughly different than our own created and developed
the IC.


" The theory of law and energy is basically the same as the "meta"
theory of the Divine Intelligence: The Universe is an impersonal
energy yet it has intelligence and responds to our thoughts. The idea
of having to explain the mechanism as to how the Yi works is basically
alien to the Chinese mind and there is very little discussion of it in
Chinese philosophy."
from Eight Lectures On the I Ching, by Richard Wilhelm which offers
the above clarification.

Wang Fu-chich is one scholar who undertook to explain the mechanism by
which the Yi works. He wrote that between heaven and earth there
exists nothing but law and energy.
" Between heaven and earth there exists nothing but law
and energy. The energy carries the law and the law regulates the
energy. Law has no form. It is only through the energy that the
image is made manifest. This reveals itself in great things and
small things.

Only a person of highest moral integrity can understand this
interaction of law and energy and basing himself on its manifestation,
he can grasp the symbols, images, and hexagrams. By observing its
small expressions, he can understand the auguries. In this way,
consulting the oracle comes about by itself."

I think that approaching the question from an "energy" aspect is
one way to do it. An illustration of this is found by looking at the
numbers Four and Five.

Western civilization is based on the Four
While the Chinese is on the Five.

The Number Four logic system:

The number four is the key number of geometry and mathematics,
sciences which are the foundation of western civilization. The four is
the progression from a dichotomy
(perception of simple contrasts, 'this' and 'that' ) to the double
dichotomy ( 2 X 2 ) which produces the grid, the matrix for pattern
awareness, cognition. Marc Jones in his Fundamentals of Number
Significance, says:

"Multiplied by itself the TWO produces the grid that is perhaps
the most common basis for diagramming and understanding all
structuring, either by nature or by man in an imitation of natural
development of any solid or tangible sort...The symbolization of pure
number presents the FOUR as the case of the service to each other of
two systems of coordinates such as time and position. "
Jones goes on to say " The FOUR always identifies a relationship
in variation of occasion in connection with function, and this in
practical everyday fact is what always can be seen to be the building
operations or the simple maintenance responsibility through the whole
spread of nature at large....the development and perfection of the
cooperation between purpose and potential leading to the ends thus
sought is the never deviating concern of any TWO emphasis . Thus in
numerology it is the FOUR that is the fundamental fabricator in every
sense of the term"


The Logic system of the number 5:


Jones says "the FIVE reveals the basic establishment of selfhood
in its utterly ecstatic maintenance of an innate poise in the total
context of all the swirling convergence's of reality of each special
moment ...He adapts the sheer liquidity of the universe of flux to the
ends in view of his own." Anyone who has ever attempted to discover
the interface between the western "four elements" and the Chinese
"five elements" will have an immediate appreciation of the nuances of
the FOUR and FIVE and the ramification these have had on shaping the
two cultures.
As has been noted oriental science/philosophy, particularly the
Chinese, attends primarily to an "energy process' perspective while in
the west the emphasis is on the manipulation of matter. Consequently
the western "four elements" describe a fundamentally
functional/structural reality. The Chinese "five elements", on the
other hand, have nothing "substantial" about them at all, but are
instead essentially "moving agents".
Another characteristic of the attitude of the FIVE is in its
perception of CAUSE. Because the FOUR can plot everything, i.e.,
everything in its limited universe, it does not give reality to
anything it can't connect with a cause. The FIVE, however, is at home
in the swirling convergence's of reality and therefore does not waste
a lot of energy attempting to sharply delineate chains of cause and
effect. This is expressed by Buddha's doctrine of "interdependent
origination" - any effect is the product of such a vast multitude of
interdependent causes it is impossible to identify a given chain of
causes with any certainty.


Taken from Midaughter's List

[lightofdarkness]

Both interact at the level of 8s.

Western categorisations of socioeconomic dynamics are four in number but fleshed-out reflects 8s. (the 'chi' is in the form of money)

Eastern categorisations of 'chi' dynamics are five in number but fleshed-out reflect 8s (five-phase categories in brackets - e.g. (EARTH), western terms in capitals, no brackets - e.g. FILTRATION).

Thus we have:

FILTRATION (EARTH)
unconditional
conditional

DISTRIBUTION
(WATER) - internal
(FIRE) - external

PRODUCTION (WOOD)
manufacture, cultivate existing
'new'

EXCHANGE (METAL)
cooperative
competitive

8s reflect the basic nature of the species overall ;-) where recursion will get to a level of 8s where all further developments are of finer distinctions WITHIN the bounds of the core 8 categories.

LOCAL biases will then skew perspectives and we can work out of levels where '64s' rule or '32s' rule etc etc.

For the five-phase I Ching see http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icfive0.html)

NOT from the midaughter's list ;-)

Chris.

[jerryd]

Sunpuerh, Chris; this is a bit of a sticky place for me to be responding as you are both within your rights to approach this from your own perspectives. Sunpuer; western bias and a need for the demonstration of absolute proof is a philosophical problem called pragmatic exestentialism and demands certainty before acceptance. A scientific creature with many flaws but one which we as a society seem to be obcessed to follow, save in some aspects of pure faith based thinking. Your premis of baseing 4 or 5 as a number falls short of the mark but can be applied to most abstract thinking and used in problem solving.
Chris your explaination of the use of the number 8 is much more realistic and if we were to take all this another step in the circle of life we find most things can be fragmented into the degrees found in a circle which is 360 and this may be the actual number all things may be found to be broken into before it meets it self in it's reconstruction and repeat its cycle of understanding. Perhaps each individual may find their answer at any one level or degree approperate for the individual to solve the specific problem as this circular search for answers to a given question is persued?

Just a thought.(:>)

[lightofdarkness]

Hi Jerryd.

Take the binary sequence of the IC, put it into a circular form (most popular diagram of that was done in 1100 AD, with the binary sequence in square form, matrix, in the middle)- link all hexagrams to each other as a form of template (reflecting the XOR/AND 'seeding' discussed elsewhere). The relationships reflect networks - so read-up on small world networks - some 'lite' reading to cover all the points (worth the ride! ;-)):

Marx, K., ([1859]) Dobb,M.(ed)(1970)"A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy" International Publishers
Fidlon David, (trans) - Various(1968)"Historical Materialism : Basic Problems" Progress Publishers, Moscow
Cohen, G.A. (1978)"Karl Marx's Theory of History" PUP
Elster, J., (1985)"Making Sense of Marx [part 2:theory of history]" CUP
Gladwell, M., (2000)"The Tipping Point" Little Brown
Buchanan, M., (2002)"Small World" Phoenix
Wolff, J.,(2002)"Why Read Marx Today?" OUP
Popper, K., (2002)"The Povery of Historicism" Routledge
Barabasi, A-L (2002)"Linked : The New Science of Networks" Perseus
Strogatz, S., (2003)"Sync" Allen Lane
Watts, J.D., (2003)"Six Degrees" Heinemann
Ball, P., (2004)"Critical Mass : How one thing leads to another"Heinemann

In passing note that the mapping of a year onto 360 will introduce distortion into the maps ;-)

I have made some comments on the above in my draft "Language of the Vague" - http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/Vague.pdf


Chris.

[lightofdarkness]

BTW - note in the small world network model, connecting all of the hexagrams to each other introduced an integrated, and so 'undifferentiated' whole. The interesting bits come in exposure to nurture and so the 'random' association/dissociation of links - gets into the 3 to 6 degrees of separation issues etc.

Chris.

[jerryd]

Chris; thank you for all these references I will keep them in close reach for future reflections. I have to say I am impressed with your ability to have read and put to use all these(books)in your search of the Truth. I am uncertain what your final intention is for all this accumulated knowledge (perhaps a compulation of Wisdom?) but I have found you to have an intresting perspective on all thing,and an educated answer for every facet of any question put forth. It(this form)is a gold mine for the students of Yi and an endless source of references for a novice like myself.

[lightofdarkness]

Hi Jerryd,

thanks for the comments - my overall focus is on the development of IDM in the form of a 'species 101' course on how we derive meaning - and so aid in 'speeding-up' comprehension of all of those specialist metaphors! ;-) - there is also a focus on a seed for AI systems to develop a sense of 'meaning'.

Re the small worlds - the best summary is Buchanan, M., (2002)"Small World" Phoenix

The following texts are written by the researchers involved:

Barabasi, A-L (2002)"Linked : The New Science of Networks" Perseus
Strogatz, S., (2003)"Sync" Allen Lane
Watts, J.D., (2003)"Six Degrees" Heinemann

Strogatz and Watt did a paper that got the cover of Nature a few years ago, and things have developed since!

Marx came up with the focus on Historical Materialism and inevitablity of cause-effect over time - a concept at odd with the 'traditional' focus on cause/effect needing to be immediate to validate the cause as THE cause - no gaps for something else to get involved.

Popper's book focuses on this need of Science etc and was considered, together with his "The Open Society and its Enemies", good texts against the Marxist perspective. It is important to read it to 'balance' out the perspectives and then deal with the science.

The small world network material brings all of this into question, where cause-effect over long time periods, and so the inevitablity of X, can occur regardless of what occurs 'inbetween' - thus you can speed up or slow down the processes but the outcome is inevitable! (a bit like birth-death!)

As one can see, this gets into issues of the IC etc., divination and prediction etc (and so the AND patterns found in the line position material) and touches on the ability for notions of divination etc to emerge in our thinking.

Chris.

[jerryd]

Candid, not to be carrying this out too far but if you are independen,stubborn and don't have problems unless you feel wronged, how does this set you apart from any of the rest who feel they fall into the same catagory but for different reasons?

[candid]

Jerry, why the confrontation? You asked me a question. I gave you the courtesy of an honest answer. I made no claims to be separate or different, only cooperative. 'course that always takes two.

[bradford_h]

Hi Luis-
I too am a neo-pagan, all the way.
We are ALWAYS outside the box.

Hi Rinda-
The 3% of Christians who are not shallow, arrogant, intolerant, bigoted hypocrites should really find something else to call themselves.
Bi zhi fei ren (08.3)

[candid]

'Some of my best friends are all of the above.' http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/shades.gif

[candid]

So then, what method might best be used for selection? What discrimination shall we apply in order to achieve this peaceful existence of the superior race? IQ? Superior health? After all, the sick are a huge drain on society?s budget. How about age? Old folks aren?t usually as productive as the young and healthy human stock. Controlled breading seems an inevitable process in such a system, especially with the research and breakthroughs science is scoring in genetics. What might qualify as moral grounds in this selective process? A strong belief in God? Or perhaps no belief in God? What litmus will determine who stays and who goes? With morality follows ideology. What world vision must they embrace? What family values, or commercial ethics? Must they be pacifist, or possess no sense of nationalism? Or rather must they possess only one view, that of one government for one world? And who would lead that world?

While I don?t buy into conspiracies wholesale, I acknowledge the value of prophecy. The fact that some of this prophecy comes from the Bible isn?t something I find a need to deny or defend. Nor does it make it any less relevant that it comes from this source. Similar prophecies exist in cultures around the globe, and for thousands of years.

Brad?s solution may well come to pass. If so, which side of the iron fence will you be on?

Or, is it possible to maintain individuality, protecting the right of every man, woman and child to exist, and to pursue their happiness without infringing upon the rights and freedoms of others?

East meets west. 63 - 15 - 64?

[bradford_h]

I just like raising the questions.
I'm not qualified to answer any of them.

I only know that very soon it will be clear there won't be enough room for everybody, and that we're already way past carrying capacity and doing long-term damage to the ecosystem. And that I'd rilly hate to see selection for road-warrior type cannibals.

[lightofdarkness]

IMHO all of your are talking particular universals - it is context that 'decides' the best fit. Through the IC material one can map out the universals in fine details and then, using consciousness, select the 'best fit' for a unique context.

The current 'unselected' socioeconomic focus is on the realm of YANG - competitive to a degree where cooperation is competitive. The "path" identifiable through the IC is on a focus on learning 'good' habits such that the realm of the mediating is reduced to be only when needed rather than perpetually 'on'. This path requires a focus on mediation to map-out universals, encode the universals as 'habits' and then expose oneself to local context and let it 'push' in that the encoding will ensure you make 'good decisions' etc in the context (or more so decisions that 'best fit' you into that context - your consciousness can decide if one needs to 'move on' or not). IOW the current socioeconomic environment is suitable for developing 'self-sufficency' - which is what 'mindless' evolution favours.

The full development path is thus YANG to YIN where it has been YIN to YANG - IOW we are on a boundary, a point of transition/transcendence/transformation where through learning universals we become more efficient in dealing with local contexts - as such we move to a FILTERING position, earth/mountain take over from the EXCHANGE positions of lake/heaven.

However, we also note that we can can 'cut' the development path into two:

YANG development (thunder to heaven) Leadership is in the form of leadership (from the front)
YIN development (earth to wind) Leadership is in the form of management (from the back)

The YANG path is aristocratic, the YIN path egalitarian. The dynamics across the two is for the YIN to neutralise the excesses of the YANG but also to benefit from the 'pioneering' of the YANG. As such, development is for the exaggeration of a YANG from the YIN, the 'charisma' attracts the rest and we all 'move along' - with that movement so others decide they too can be YANG and so competition develops etc etc etc

Thus in the YIN realm so the leader is not out for themselves, or totally focused on their perspectives, their interests - they SERVE the context that is the society. In YANG so the leaders are more charismatic, more on asserting the context rather than adapting to it, serving it. That said, due to the recursion there are 'charismatic' types in the 'yang' realm of yin development - wind - where hexes 28 and 44 cover this 'intense' realm, 28 more cooperative, 44 more competitive - use of rhetoric to persuade/seduce etc. (the YANG dominating hexagrams WITHIN the YIN set are:

16, 34, 45, 12
62, 56, 31, 33
40, 64, 47, 06
32, 50, 28, 44

With the last two in each row the dominating of the four)

That said, the historical perspective across the universe favours increasing YANG such that stratification can occur where the YANG realm develops laterally to the path of development (see the focus on history given in the daft "Language of the Vague" - http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/Vague.pdf) - and so in the realm of the trigram of earth so 45 as 12 currently dominate - fundamentalism is not only secular ;-)

Issues with the current formats of IC interpretations etc is that this format focuses on a unique context as if it is universal - it isnt. 10th century BC mindset is not 'universal' nore is 21st century AD mindset BUT through the discovery of universals over the recent centuries, and especially in the last decades, the 21st century AD mindset gives us access to depth in understanding the universals that the IC expresses.

The overall need for mediation (exchange, realm of METAL) is to refine our universals (and so everything gets a label!) and THEN to 'sink' back into autopilot where our confidence is in our universals being able to adapt to any context. This dynamic reflects that of evolution - to develop genes, universals, that allow for refined 'best fit' mappings.

The idea as such is to 'habituate' the WHOLE of the IC material as a universal, and then (a) allow context to PUSH but (b) also allow consciousness to PULL. Due to genetics we all have a universal persona that is 'coloured' by context. But we also are in a position, through understanding the dynamics of universals and context, to SELECT contexts to 'push' our buttons and so refine our inner natures. The IC allows us to map that realm as well due to its sharing space (as identified in IDM) with such typology systems as the MBTI (more 'universals' in need of colouring by local context)

A map developed in the EAST (IC) is refined through perspectives developed in the WEST (Science investigations into methods, recursion, logic etc) - The WHOLE is all of that. Get with the whole; the parts/univerals focus is mechanistic not organic.

By refining understanding of the universal IC so we 'think' IC and express that in habits/instincts but consciously so - our mediations re IC are encoded into the instincts/habits and so our thinking may be 'delayed' but will be 'correct' given any context.

BTW - note that in socioeconomic systems that are overly 'YANG' so methods of communications are by stereotyping and focusing on archetypes - IOW universals. The problem is the lack of depth in this form of communications - surface structure is all that is focused upon -- Hollywood rules ;-) - we can do better in that we are starting to understand, have access to, the depths of the universals and from there the organic nature our expressions.

Chris.

[lightangel]

Candid,

I don't think Brad is really serious about eliminating the sick and the stupid. I think that, more than anything, he's ranting against the stupidity of our 'leaders' and of the polarization that exists in the world around religious beliefs. I might be wrong but that's how I see it.
I think the point is tha a) democracy doesn't work since the average citizen doesn't understand the issues / doesn't care about anything other than the fear or the hope he gets fed via sound bites. and b) the world would be better off if there was some natural selection process in place (I'm not so sure that this latter point is viable as none of us can think of what the criteria for this selection would be). Perhaps the solution would be to 'earn' your right to vote by demonstrating some degree of understanding or even capacity to understand.
I'm sure Brad is a very spiritual person, I can't imagine he would send the religious extremists to the gas chambers if he could... as much as we would all be much better off without them.

[candid]

LOL

gotta love this place

[candid]

Lightangel,

I'm sorry but 97% of Christians do not qualify as religious extremists. And just who would YOU appoint as judge of those who do and who do not understand, and thereby is privileged to vote? hmmm? Those you happen to agree with? See the problem with that line of thinking? As Jerry pointed out: "how does this set you [or me] apart from any of the rest who feel they fall into the same category but for different reasons?" The only thing lacking is good ole common sense, and that can?t be determined through any extreme.

[lightofdarkness]

I have no problem with democracy as long as all participate - here in Australia to vote is law ( We also have proportional representation rather than first past the post). - dont vote and you get fined etc etc which I think is good in that the focus is on maintaining a SOCIAL system, not an INDIVIDUAL system (and so a more anarchic perspective).

If the vote was made law in other democracies so the 'extremes' we are getting would be 'rounded-out' due to the participation. Yes - we do get 'extreme' groups emerge, but that reflects the socioeconomic times and so over time they 'die out'.

The 'natural' pattern in the universe is YIN/YANG with yang being the exaggerating, yin the balancing. KNOWING this allows for that knowledge to be included in our decision making etc - NOT knowing this allows for 'random' forces to dominate. EDUCATION about our SPECIES nature, and so UNIVERSALS - free of local colourings - can aid where we recognise local colourings as metaphorcation.

Chris.

[sparhawk]

Candid,

Two words: "Soylent Green"

Then people will also start dying of "mad human disease"... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Chris, oh geeze!, I don't think I can take you in-coursing in social issues (plus I Ching)... Please, somebody pass the butter knife. I want to slit my wrists -slooowly-! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

L

PS: carry on, of course; don't mind my suffering...

[sparhawk]

Oh, wait!! Just remember that "mad human disease" is pervasive already! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

L

[bradford_h]

The Zhouyi was written about the time that David and Solomon ruled Israel and Genesis was written.
At about a fourth of its present age, the Roman Empire really got going. At less than half of its present age, Rome fell. How many nations and empires, cultures and civilizations has the Yi seen come and go? In the face of this context, how can it be possible to hold up a couple of decades of this shallow culture?s politically correct ideas, fads and fashions as eternal truths, or even important in minor ways? Like it did with the Yi, time will tell.
And like the Spanish say: Time and I, against any two.
As a dedicated student of the Changes, I just don?t want to take the little picture as seriously as most of us want to take it.
The Yi will be around long after all of our present nations are gone.

[yly2pg1]

The fate of Yi in the 20th century in her homeland is not quite smooth.
The 1st half of the century saw a harsh condemnation and ridicule from the academic world.
The 2nd half is colored by a notorious cultural revolution in the 60s and 70s
plus the prevalence of shallow and stupid politically correct ideas then ... a period of Hex36.

Thanks to the new findings in Science (esp. from the West), things change now.

[candid]

Well see? All these views here and we haven't yet killed each other off. Keeping a suspicious eye on Luis' butter knife, though.

[lightangel]

I'm sure 97% is an exaggeration...
And I would not be in a position to decide who can vote and who can't, nor do I know who would be. But I do know that democracy can not really exist when you don't have a population that is 100% educated and interested in the process. How do people decide how to vote? Who really understands what they are voting for? How is it possible that a majority of people vote for issues that are against their own interest? And sometimes the role of religion, sadly, is to cloud a person's judgement.

[candid]

Well, Lightangel, until you or someone comes up with something that's actually better, it's what we have to work with. And I'd still choose it over any other system that's in the world today.

[sparhawk]

Here, I'm done with it. Bleeding slooowly (tryglicerides thick blood, ya know...). If you are going to use it don't forget to wash it well. Don't want you to get an infection... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

<CENTER>http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/3206.jpg</CENTER>

L

[jerryd]

Dobro; thanks for the plug "Ithink" as I really feel I may have opened a pandoras box when I agreed with Bradford earlier on. My concept of todays culture is not extreamism but ultra conservetism with a gun in my pocket and good old commonsense trying to unload it (just kidding about the gun.) I have played the extreamest and demanding blood for national ignorance in the 60's and all of it was crap for the most part. I found isolating my self in alcohol and mindful intolerance did nothing for my health or my mental outlook. I recovered sufficiently to realize there is not a vote or a prayer which will change what was and is happening. I decided then to persue headonistic ignorance and tolerate those who were in any way extream and just watch them undo all things important. The unhappy will continue to be unhappy and those who find refuge from it like my self will find constant harassment from those who are not happy and looking for others to join them. The religious will always try to save a soul willing to listen and find the devil in those who will not. It will be and has been the halmark of all time. The more things change the more thay stay the same.

[jerryd]

My last post was mis-labeled, sorry this was a response to "Candid" not to "Dobro" but he can read it if he wishes.

[lightangel]

LOL!
Love the knife, but I'm not ready to use it yet... anybody?

Candid,
I see your point. And, for what it's worth, my point is really not much of a point, just a mind game if you will because there is no real solution available. And, in any case, it doesn't make me bitter or anything, I am pretty happy as most of the time my mind is not occupied by the state of affairs in the world... Happiness is oblivion.

[sparhawk]

Brad, do you read the New Yorker? There is an article about Hayao Miyazaki (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/) in the January 17th 2005 edition that I'm sure you'd like to read. If you don't and would like to read it, I scanned the article to PDF format, for another friend and would share the link to my site with you. It isn't public for obvious reasons...

L

[bradford_h]

Hi Luis-
Found it on the net, thanks.
I'm sure you understand that all this is half tongue in cheek, right?
There are wonderful things about this civilization -
the Hubble telescope, digital audio, digital girlfriends ...

[sparhawk]

You mean this at the New Yorker site? http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/?050117on_onlineonly01

That's not the article, only a New Yorker Q&amp;A with the author of the article...

L

PS: of course I understand. I know you are not one to discard digital girlfriends off hand... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

[candid]

I love the Socratic spirit that has evolved in this thread. Maybe none of our ideals and methods nail the solution to our world?s ills, but laying our thoughts on the table without personal defamation provides some relief , at least for me.

Brad, I didn?t take your comments literally, knowing, at least in part, your sardonic humor. In like spirit, I played off it.

Alas, I am relieved; for with that knife Luis will be around for a long time to come.

[bradford_h]

Luis
Then the pdf, please and thank you.

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

for with that knife Luis will be around for a long time to come.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but know I'm really using it for butter on my bread. It will be a slooow death... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

Brad, I sent you the link.

L

[yly2pg1]

Human rights vs democracy?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_leekuanyew.html#8

[sparhawk]

<CENTER>http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/3210.gif</CENTER>

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

L

[gene]

Yeah, I saw that one in the local newspaper this morning, and I had to laugh. In a so called democracy, theoretically anyone can run for office. Anybody try lately? You usually have a choice between someone you never heard of and someone you only heard of because he/she got elected last year. Complain? well, that's going to happen no matter who got elected because you really didn't have as much choice as you thought you did. Yeah, legally we have the right to complain. Whatever good it does, chuckle.

Gene

[bradford_h]

Hey Luis-
Got the link. Thanks.

Before the subject of digital girlfriends goes too cold:
Got your eye on any new Zhuang Nu this season? Most of my favorites were rotated off the schedule, and now I hear even T?pol is slated to go.
I rather fancy Nadia Santos, Sydney Bristow?s sister.
Veronica Mars is a pretty hot little sleuth.
Hope to see more of that ascended ancient goddess on Atlantis.
Then I have lots of hope for Christina on Point Pleasant, even if she is Satan?s daughter. I married one of Satan?s other daughters once, but she went wholly to the dark side and I had to divorce her. Got a great kid out of it though.
b

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I hear even T?pol is slated to go<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know... Sad, Enterprise is the last program of the ST franchise to be cancelled and there are no plans for a new one. I think is an awsome franchise. Money talks, I suppose.

Ah, Nadia Santos... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif It may no be true at all but in the program, Sydney's sister plays an Argentinian. I'm not from there but almost. Makes me feel nostalgic...

Atlantis (and SG1)are great programs. I hope they live long. Surprised that SciFi channel hasn't picked up any of the ST programs and revived the franchise... Geeze, to revive Gallactica of all programs...

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I married one of Satan?s other daughters once<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose you were "clue" blind... LOL
On the bright side, the offspring was worth the effort.

Luis

[bradford_h]

Luis
I was really surprised to learn how big the Yijing is in Argentina, even in English. Just from hits on my website it came in at number 5, after the US, Netherlands, Brazil and Australia (After that came Italy, Canada, the UK and Singapore). My picture was only of Gauchos and Pampas. Gotta go cross that great stream again.

[sparhawk]

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My picture was only of Gauchos and Pampas. Gotta go cross that great stream again.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, now, Brad... Don't fall for stereotypes. Both Argentina and Uruguay (my neck of the woods) have a literacy rate higher that the U.S. and most "First World" countries for that matter (behind only Cuba, perhaps, crazy as it sounds). If you ever visit Buenos Aires (or Montevideo, in a minor scale) you would think you stepped into Paris or Viena. People have a passion for culture and reading, so much so that one of the hottest black market items in Buenos Aires are stolen books (I was reading an article in Pagina 12 (http://www.pagina12web.com.ar/suplementos/libros/vernota.php?id_nota=1405) about this)

My first Yi books were all published in Buenos Aires in the 1960's and 70's.

You should definitely go. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Luis

[bradford_h]

L-
yessir!
I started nosing around and asking questions as soon as I had a clue. Nobody who had been there was surprised at that level of culture.
There are so many countless wonderful things to be ignorant about in this world! I try to take care of the unnecessary or embarassing ones as soon as they come up so I can push on further into my darkness.