June 2004 happenings

[sparhawk]

Gene, this is more or less what I think you like to research:


http://www.senderberl.com/ (http://www.senderberl.com/)

Go down where it says: "GENERAL ALERT: SOMETHING BAD COMING IN JUNE?"

What do you make of it? I've been searching on information regarding a "countdown" overheard on a military radio frequency back in January by a code named "Snowball Net".

Luis

[candid]

One could drive a convoy through the holes in that website's assertions. Geeze, could they come up with any more speculations to add to their pile of paranoid Bible thumping modern day prophesies?

Of course there's a good chance of another severe terrorist attack, and of course it would likely be located in a major government installation, or crowded subway, or a major event. Duh! What would you do if you were a terrorist, blow up sand in the Mohave Desert?

And if a meteor crashes into earth, surely it was Bush who set it up to be so. And if/when China strikes Taiwan, that too is the evil work of the Bush administration. But its all Israel?s fault for not repenting and obeying G_d after their 1967 war.

Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your hearts it will creep.

This is exactly the reaction terrorists count on.

Consider the sources.

[hilary]

Candid, you have me intrigued. Does the website actually explain Bush's plans for the meteorite, or are you just extrapolating creatively? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

[sparhawk]

Candid,

I think you misunderstood my question to Gene. I posted that site and only referred to that specific item because that is what I was searching on, and, that specific portion of the site, nothing else, summed up what I have seen in very many other sources on the Net (not all of them Bush wackers, mind you). Personally, I don't care much about Bible mongers or frothing-in-the-mouth Bush bashers (the same way I don't care about Bible bashers or frothing-in-the-mouth Bush supporters). I do care about developing patterns though and that was the question I posed to Gene.

If you actually took the time to read the whole tirade in that site, well, I apologize for the indigestion; it caused me some heartburn too... My interest was only about that specific portion of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your hearts it will creep.

This is exactly the reaction terrorists count on.

Consider the sources.
<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I read something like this I have to wonder if your sources are only Fox or CNN. There is actually a whole world outside these borders with opinions as valid as those inside of it. Don't you think?

As far as patterns is concerned, IMHO, may as well put your ear to the rail because there is a totalitarian train coming that is below the horizon for most people. Only because they haven't experienced. Well, I have, and what happened in the microcosm of the small, Third World country where I was born, is eerily similar to what is happening here. That's not paranoia, in my case it is called "experience". Only difference is that this country is a hundred times bigger and the machinery takes longer to oil and crank-up. Still, every day I pray YOU, and like minded people, are the ones that are correct and I am dead wrong.

Does all this warrant the title of "paranoia"? Well, I'd be darned! I thought that observing around and matching up patterns was part of Yi's study... We must certainly differ on our concept of paranoia (other that the actual pathological definition of the word). For me, an example of paranoia is every single "love me, love me not" question that is posed to the Yi in this forum (with all due respect to those who sincerely pose those questions here)


Luis

[candid]

Hilary, my entire post was based on poetic license, but not without reference to the site?s clear insinuations and incredible sources. Ok, so Bush isn?t planning the meteor to hit at precisely 6/20/40, he?s just covering it up to use it to his own advantage.

Luis, I watch neither CNN nor Fox. I did read the entire page. My comments were directed in no way to you, to Gene or anyone else in particular here. Since this forum has become a dumping ground for political satire, I figure what the hell, throw in my two cents of rebuttal.

No regrets.

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Since this forum has become a dumping ground for political satire, I figure what the hell, throw in my two cents of rebuttal.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, it is still a democracy and we can still speak our minds! Fair enough for me... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

Luis

[candid]

Works for me too. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

[lenardthefast]

Hear, hear, Luis! Excellent points all, and all well-stated. Your comment on the general lack of awareness in this country is certainly spot-on. There are so many VALID and documented sites out there that there is no longer the stigma attached to 'conspiracy theory'; respected and stable academics and scientists have started to chime in.

What to do? Well, I won't be buying AK-47's or stocking up with canned food and MRE's; but, I will be out there VOTING this year, and it won't be 'for you know who'!

Namaste,
Leonard

[dij]

2040? Hm I'll be 69. Good time to be hit by a flaming rock.

As for my measly contribution, it isn't lack of awareness that's the problem, it's being aware and then doing the wrong thing.

[candid]

Leonard,

Have no clue who I'll vote for until the moment arrives. But unless the Democrats come up with someone better than mealy-mouth-Carey or hug-a-tree-Nader to lead this country at this time of crisis, it will be for 'you know who.'

I realize how unpopular this position is among the ?enlightened? and liberal Ching set, but oh well, like Luis said, its still democracy, albeit more socialist all the time.

Namaste, Leonard.

Candid

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

there is no longer the stigma attached to 'conspiracy theory'; respected and stable academics and scientists have started to chime in.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, and for me that falls more in the category of a "pattern" than a simple conspiracy theory. There are a lot of bells tolling, but, like everything else, there is also a lot of selective hearing. Naturally, people try to hear what makes them comfortable or find familiar, however, there are a lot of other sounds one should pay attention to. It reminds me of the joke about the guy who stood in the middle of the road at night and saw two lights coming towards him fast. He was convinced it was two motorcicles and stood right in there to kid the bikers. Well, guess what, the joke was on him...

As far as voting, coming November, I'll be right there first thing in the morning.

Luis

[candid]

Dij, I've been trying all day to fire the typist, but he just won't go away!

Your contributions are not measly at all, btw. I appreciate them and you.

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

it isn't lack of awareness that's the problem, it's being aware and then doing the wrong thing<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ambiguity is great! I love it! (jealous I didn't come up with it myself...) http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif (Hey! I found the old big grin!)

[candid]

Luis, if you only knew how unfamiliar moderate conservatism is to me. I was a liberal?s liberal for most of my life. I also went through a period of extreme conservatism. Now, I find my self in the middle of these extremes, and choose the middle path, common sense approach to life, including politically. I can be convinced through intelligent reasoning, but not through seething hatred, regardless which camp it comes from. Of course it is generally assumed by the extreme left that there is no such thing as a loving, reasonable, thinking, moderate conservative. Well guess what... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/mischief.gif

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Now, I find my self in the middle of these extremes, and choose the middle path, common sense approach to life, including politically.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for clarifying. I trust you Candid! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif

L

PS: Extreme left?? LMAO! I guess then that everything that is not within two inches of the right is extreme left... I may be wrong, but I thought 'extreme left' was what was overtly fought in Corea, Vietman, Bay of Pigs and Granada and covertly and by proxy in Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Afganistan (we are still paying for that one in the hands of bin Laden and the Taliban whom we helped arm and supported...) many African countries, etc., etc., by the 'extreme right'.

Nope, much like you, I prefer and stay in the middle. Thank you!

[dij]

heh, fellow chocolate friend, thank you for that and thank you indeed for findng the old big grin! ;)

Candid, how are you a conservative?
(Dij is thinking that today's conservatives must be awful liberal)

[candid]

Luis,

"I guess then that everything that is not within two inches of the right is extreme left... I may be wrong, but I thought 'extreme left' was what was overtly fought in Corea, Vietman, Bay of Pigs and Granada and covertly and by proxy in Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Afganistan (we are still paying for that one in the hands of bin Laden and the Taliban whom we helped arm and supported...) many African countries, etc., etc., by the 'extreme right'."

Yes. That is the extreme right's view of the extreme left. Funny isn't it? From the middle ground I mean.

Thanks for your trust. Sincerely.

C

[lindsay]

Candid, there is pretty general agreement among the lefties I know that the Yi is a bourgeois tool of oppression. I think a very good case can be made for the essential conservatism of the Zhouyi. It was developed after all to advise, buttress, and justify feudal warlords in their political decisions, and only fell into the hands of the hoi polloi hundreds of years after it's inception. Maybe that's why you find it so appealing?

Lindsay

[sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

there is pretty general agreement among the lefties I know that the Yi is a bourgeois tool of oppression.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg your pardon, but King Wen was a way-to-the-left terrorist in today's books! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

L

[candid]

Lindsay, I don't find any of it appealing. I find anything extreme to be ultimately harmful. I find common sense to be the best moderator between extremes. But unfortunately extremes can not hear, for all that it has ears.

[dij]

aww..is I being ignored?

Candid, may I repeat my question in hope you just missed it earlier

What makes you a conservative? (if you don't mind answering that)

[candid]

chuckles..

Dij, I'll answer your question if you tell me what seems so unconservative or liberal to you about me. And I may not respond for awhile, so don't take it personally, ok?

[lenardthefast]

Quote" But unfortunately extremes can not hear, for all that it has ears." Weeeellll, from where I am sittin', it seems the unhearing ears are clustered somewhere in Arizona. Just another silly observation. Fallin' on deaf ears, no doubt.

Namaste,
Leonardhttp://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/bounce.gif

[dij]

Well, Candid, I don't know much about politics, I guess I just assumed that someone who is a conservative would call stuff like I Ching a devils work or some such. (now that I think about it, I know people who claim they are conservative but are into much weirder things.)

I don't know you that well to have opinions about you so that's why I asked. I usually stay out of any discussions about politics because I never agree with anyone about it so just can't be bothered with all the arguing.

Plus, you seem so laid back and forgiving.

[dij]

I have found a few tools wot may help you decide if you are a conservative
You maybe be a conservative (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/6174/u_conser.htm)

you know you are conservative if (http://www.meyerweb.com/other/humor/conservative.html)

take quiz (http://www.msu.edu/~jdowell/PolitQuiz.html)


You will notice I took care to provide a States biased information. This is because her, in Europe, we know that the rest of the world may not have same values as us.
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/biggrin.gif

*why is there no tongue in cheek icon?

[candid]

Dij, fair ?nuff.

I believe that the government which governs least governs best. This means small government and as few restrictions on the people as practicality will allow.

I believe that people who are fit to work and live independently should do so, even through difficult times, and not lean upon the government to compensate for the bad choices someone has made. I also believe in legitimate exceptions to the rule.

I believe reverse discrimination is no better than discrimination. Equality means equality. I never owned a slave, my father or my father?s father never owned a slave, and entitlement programs are a rip-off. How about an American Caucasian College fund? Yeah, right.

I believe that all citizens, regardless of their income should pay the same flat tax percentage rate. The well-off still would pay the lion?s share of the tax burden, but no more. I see no reason to punish success.

I believe the right to self defense extends to the common man, not just to the elite, including the right to own and use firearms.

I believe in free enterprise without having the life choked out it through over taxation and insurance scams.

I believe that a family should be the foundation of security and not the government.

I believe in a strong military, and use of force when national security is threatened with force.

Likewise:

I could give a rip if two gays want to marry.

Women should receive equal pay for equal work, if its actually equal. More if its actually more.

A strong local government can do more for those who legitimately need assistance than a federal government.

Litigation abuses should be stopped, and the courts should uphold the constitution, not interpret it.

There you have it, Dij. I?m sure there?s more, but this should give you an idea of why I am not a liberal. And I am laid back and forgiving, Dij. But I?m not passive.

Leonard, I see you?ve resorted to personal attacks. Not surprising in the least.

[dij]

Oh ok, that does paint a clearer picture. I do hope you didn't feel pressured into stating your beliefs , I was just curious (on account of you saying you are middle of the road conservative)

I actually agree with you (in priciple) on everything you said up there. What I don't agree with is (presumption alert) that those things can be made ot work fairly. I don't believe in politicians.
And I have no faith in human kind.
But other than that,
what are your views on abortion?
heh, just kidding

What you said about reverse discrimination is so true. Sadly though, there is still a lot of your ordinary, garden variety discrimination going on. And I don't believe in taking from the poor to give to the rich.

I don't believe that rich people should be allowed to bail their kids out of jail after they've committed the same types of crime that the poor kids spend a lifetime in jail for.

I don't believe you should take away the possibility of education from some poor second generation immigrant just coz your averagely intelligent cousin from Iowa didn't get into college.

I don't believe in arms. Period.

I don't believe in military or defence. US has been attacked but once (Sept 11) and yet curiously, there was no defence. Guess all the marines were too busy murdering Afgany children at the time?
If an argument cannot be solved by words then we have no business calling ourselves civilised. Threat begets more threat.

And sometimes, being passive is the best thing you can 'do'.

;)

[bradford_h]

The definition I heard was

"A conservative is someone who believes that nothing should ever be done for the first time."

But I remain most puzzled by this:
What are consevatives conserving these days?
All I see is an unlimited fiscal irresponsibility, an unrepayable debt, and an unconscionable waste of resources.

Left wing, right wing, same chicken