Times change, and with them their demands: 49

[candid]

I?d like to thank those that I?ve had the pleasure of exchanging knowledge and information with during my years on this board. I no longer fit into what is deemed proper, fitting and politically correct. I have only one regret of something I?ve said here. It was quite a long time ago, and was said to Steve Marshall. Something to the effect that ?you are better than that?. What a foolish thing to tell someone, especially when they are being completely honest. Anyway, it?s mostly been fun and enjoyable.

My parting comment to you is in regard to 23: Be true.

Peace.

[soshin]

The following hexagram is 50, so there is hope for us for the future. If you find something on the way, please come back and share it with us.

Hate to see you leave,

Soshin

[dij]

all the best candid

[martin]

Now really Candid, start a new thread ('A little impromptu survey') and then leave??
How improper ... ;)

Anyway, thank you for being here, I loved your voice. I wish you all the best.

[val]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I no longer fit into what is deemed proper, fitting and politically correct.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
Proper, fitting and pc by whose standards anyway? If we're talking yours, then cool.

Peace, love and understanding, Candid,

Val

[gene]

Candid

It strikes me a little odd that there is this sudden turn of events. Makes me feel like something is going on behind the scenes. Just today you were asking me questions about hexagram 30. Do you suddenly see things a little differently? I hate to see anyone leave the board, no matter what conflicts they have had. Not that I am not involved in similar conflicts in areas outside this board...Just odd the timing. Hopefully, if it is possible for you to do so, you will reconsider.

I miss Demitra too, as well as others, although we are still in touch, but all people, I honor them, even if it doesn't seem so. Whether I disagree with anything you said, or anyone else said, is immaterial. You all have your own viewpoint, and in my opinion, the right to say it. And others have the right to respond to it too. Whatever. Hopefully, you, and others, will be back.

Gene

[heylise]

Well, what can I say? Hope you will reconsider and stay? I am by and by leaving myself, so I cannot expect anyone else to stay.

I thought it was my shortcoming that I cannot read mails when I do not know who wrote them. Other people seem to have no trouble with it. I cannot read newspapers either, so it is clear that it is my own failing.
But then, last week, I was watching the DVD with interviews of Campbell. And he said it! You can look at the world, and all in it, as ?thou? or you can look at it as ?it?. It is important which way of looking you choose, it changes your way of being thoroughly.

Nowadays ?thou? is not common anymore. Newspapers write about everything as ?it?, and when I read the posts in Clarity now, many are for me ?it?, and I cannot make any ?thou? of them. They stay words, often very good words, but I cannot find the living person behind them. Mainly because I cannot connect one post of someone with another one of the same person. They all stand alone.

Several of the ?individuals? have left already, and I don?t know for what reasons. It would not surprise me though if one of them was this ?newspaper-quality? of Clarity.

So I guess the only thing I can say is: namaste

LiSe

[martin]

Are you familiar with Buber's book 'I and Thou', LiSe?

A few quotes taken from a website:

The relation to the Thou is immediate.

Between I and Thou there is no terminology, no preconception and no imagination, and memory itself changes, since it plunges from singularity into the whole.

Between I and Thou there is no purpose, no greed and no anticipation; and longing itself changes, since it plunges from dream into appearance.

All means are impediment. Only where all means fall to pieces, encounter happens.

[martin]

I have a Dutch translation of the book somewhere but I can't find it now.
I think it's high on my list of best books ever written.
But I also can't find that list now ... http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/spin.gif

[jte]

Candid, two words for you, and you already know what they are.

And I also hope you'll decide to come back. You definitely helped a lot of people here in many different ways and you can be sure they appreciate it.

- Jeff

[heylise]

Martin,

Yes this is the same ?Thou? Campbell speaks about. I searched for his exact words, took quite some time, but I found it. He talks about myths (of course, the whole DVD is about myth, the whole man is about myth), how hunter peoples see their prey as Thou, not as just food.

About ?it? and ?Thou? he literally says:
?when the buffalo?s were killed by thousands and left to rot, it was a sacrilege.?
Bill Moyers: ?it turned the buffalo?s from a Thou..?
JC: ?To an ?it?..?
BM: ?the Indians addressed life as a Thou, an object of reverence..?
JC: ?the Indians addressed life as a Thou, I mean trees, stones, everything else. You can address anything as a Thou and you can feel the change in your psychology, as you do it. The ego that sees a Thou is not the same ego that sees an it, your whole psychology changes when you address things as an it. And when you go to war with a people the problem with the newspapers is they turn those people into its, so that they are not Thous.?

To me it explained why there are so many things I stay away from. Often I had no idea why, because interesting things are being said, but when I follow them, I feel gray and tired afterwards. I found out it happens when words are words, only information, and there is no life in them.
When I cannot see the person behind the words, the words stay its. And by getting involved, I turn into an it myself.

When words are really rich by themselves, when they are creative, then they can be seen and experienced as Thou. Then you don?t need to see the person behind them, because his/her creativity shines through, and that is the fabric of that person?s Thou. But most words of most people get their value only when you can see the person, when you can see how he/she reacts, expresses him/her self. No need to know who that person is, you only need to know enough words, in different situations, and then you have an impression. He/she comes alive, becomes Thou. It is the reason why I cannot read posts from anonymous: nobody comes alive because I cannot find out which post belongs to which other post.

Namaste
LiSe

[martin]

It works the same for me, LiSe. When I read a book and it interests me I usually try to find out more about the author and his or her personal life.
If there is a biography or an autobiography available I will probably read it. I think is has something to do with the fact that I'm basically a feeling type.
I love intellectual pursuits but feeling is my compass in life. First feel then think.
If I can't feel a person I can't understand her or him. I need a certain intimacy and biographical information is often helpful.

I've noticed that some of my more intellectually oriented friends (those who first think) don't understand my 'biographical' interests. "Why do you need to know the messenger, is the message not enough?"
They also don't understand why I sometimes indulge in chit chat and small talk about the weather or god-knows-what that to them seems to be talk about nothing.
They are right, it's about nothing, but that's not the point. The point is the intimate emotional contact, soul to soul, I to thou. And a smile, a simple gesture or an emoticon on the internet can mean more to me than an abstract discourse of 10000 words.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/clown.gif

[yidiot]

Hey Candid, what's yo' problem man? You turnin' old? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/wink.gif

[yidiot]

PS: there was a winkin' clipart on the end of that remark (damn le internette conxionne)

[yidiot]

mais non! il est la!

wait
what am I doing?

Candid!

Tu est la?

oh sorry
bad connection

bad
bad
conexionne!

[pedro]

Candid, about this whole leaving the forum and stuff thing, its really memorable of you, but hey, sorry, it has been done already...
Actually I believe Dharma has the exclusive http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/happy.gif
I must second her, and at least be given the "ok you really tried, now get outta here" award

in any case Im sure you wont settle for thirds...

[yidiot]

oh and may I add: blah blah blahahaha
(does this pedro bloke ever get it?)

Candid, ma man, it aint over till it aint over, hu.. whatever

So...
What's happening?

I mean really...

wanna share?

[soshin]

I fear we are speaking to a wall now, considering that Candid left no traces whatsoever (like an e-mail address).

But as I said, the second of the 49/50 pair, The Well gives me some hope for the future, as well as the 23 hint at the end of his final post. 24 would be a promising hex for a new start.

But alas, I am very bad at such things, so I could be completely wrong and he is on the leave forever.

I would feel sad. He was a very important voice of the Yi here.

But I am sure he considered his step very well.

So, again, farewell

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/zen2.gif, Candid.

[hilary]

I've never been quite so lost for words. Wall or no. Candid's been the lifeblood of this place since it first took off: a unique concentration of generosity, humour, irascibility, compassion and - well - candour. (And politically incorrect from the year dot, thank heavens.) Accept no imitations...

He'd better come back into the 'melting pot'
(http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/clipart/hex50.gif)
With LiSe talking about leaving as well, I'm starting to feel as if someone is playing Jenga with my foundations.

I'll drop the man an email and include a link to this page.

[pakua]

"JC: ?the Indians addressed life as a Thou, I mean trees, stones, everything else..."

That's very true, and I have huge respect for their way. On the other hand, they were still human. I read a while ago that we (Hollywood?)have romanticized their culture somewhat.

Apparently they were not above wasting either. When they wanted buffalo, they would force a herd over a cliff, and then they would pick and choose. Sometimes there were thousands killed this way, which would rot before they could be used.

I suspect we have a tendency to romanticize every culture which is not our own.

[pakua]

"Candid's been the lifeblood of this place since it first took off: a unique concentration of generosity, humour, irascibility, compassion and - well - candour. (And politically incorrect from the year dot, thank heavens.) Accept no imitations... "

I too will miss his posts... a lot. I can honestly say I loved reading his posts (most of them, anyway) - he has a lot of insight and expresses it beautifully, sometimes poetically.

I think he's mistaken though if he thinks the issue has anything to do with pc or not pc, candour or not candour.

I think it has to do with taking responsibility for one's words and attitude. If you mistakenly show "attitude", and you're called on it, I think the correct thing to do is either make amends or make an apology, or something.

Isn't one of the prime uses of IC to cultivate self-awareness?

[val]

Pakua...

"Isn't one of the prime uses of IC to cultivate
self-awareness?"

That's certainly been my experience, but it's also been my experience that I've tried to avoid looking at some of the things about myself the Yi has tried to show me. And, from what I see on this forum, other people are as guilty of denial/avoidance as I am. I think it's only natural. And I believe the will to be free of the burdensome baggage the Yi is trying to help us lift from our spirit has to be very strong to be able to get past the natural inclination of denial.

Love,

Val