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Thread: 15.1 Speak up or not?

  1. #1

    Default 15.1 Speak up or not?

    Sorry guys and girls, a bit of a lengthy one but this is really bugging me. Im sharing the full story to help any potential interpreters with thanks in advance.

    My ex still contacts me from time to time without any encouragement from me, hes also visited a few times in the last couple of days just to say hello.

    His sister who lives with her fianc contacts him nearly everyday and always has, to come and do various tasks for her ranging from building a shed, to taking her kids to school, picking her up from friends houses or just going for a drink with her to keep her company. He has moved back in with his mum early last year and also helps her out by doing jobs around/on the house. He bends over backwards to help his friends and will drop anything if somebody asks him to do something.

    Our relationship was always very gentle, affectionate and caring. Although there are things I need doing around the house (he is a builder) it was always him who pointed them out and offered to do them. My response was always that he could do them only if he felt like it and had the time. There was no urgency and he mustnt feel he has to. He would show thoughtful signs of affection towards me. Weekly bunches of flowers for no reason, calling around before work if I was ill just to check on me. I would go out of my way to do things to make him happy. We both told each other we loved each other and made plans for the future.

    The reason we split about 4 weeks ago was that he had so many demands being put on him from other people/situations that he was feeling stressed about not having time to himself and felt he didnt have the time to give to a relationship and he was making himself ill. He said he needed to spend time on his own doing things for himself. We were both upset by the way he felt and he said it wasnt a decision hed made lightly. He needs time to find what he wants from life rather than running around for other people. I agreed to respect his decision and I also said that Id wait for him. He was shocked that I said Id wait and said hed like that but neither expected it or deserved it. So, I wait. We have remained friends as I say and do stay in contact. His reasons for ending what we had are genuine; I have no doubt about that.

    After his last visit (today) I am left feeling angry, bitter and resentful of so many things/people. We were having a normal conversation and he said he was going fishing for a rest. I joked about Christmas being a time of peace and rest where he should have had his feet up. He laughed and listed all of the running around hed done for other people, mainly his sister.

    I feel that I am one of the few people who didnt place demands upon him yet I am the one he has cut off. He desperately wants to settle down with a family of his own yet spends all of his time running around after his sisters family. I dont think he should choose favourites amongst his friends and family but Im irritated that hes cut off the one person who can give him what he truly wants. I feel he has made the initial decision to calm his life down correctly but gone about it in the wrong way. Ive never sulked when he was busy, never placed demands or expectations on him and now Im the one out in the cold.

    I asked IC what do I need to know about sharing my feelings with him I got 15.1>36 I have taken this as an indication to share my feelings but in a careful way.

    LiSe speaks of give and take. Stating It is an art, expressing oneself and at the same time not offending the other in any way. Giving him his honor, respecting his views, giving him the room to express himself as well.
    Unity means also to stay free of black-white thinking. When something is true, it should mean it is life sustaining, but anything true which excludes something else being true, is a sign you are talking of very temporal, short living truths. This is not scientific? Just take a good look at science.


    This talks to me of expression whilst being mindful of other peoples views and opinions. I would be able to carefully word my feelings so they didnt seem like an attack. However, Im not sure what line 1 tells me. Am I the noble one or is he?

    Line 1 - A noble one with very compatible give-and-take. Benefit of crossing the great river. Auspicious
    Words are stronger than weapons if one seeks freedom and peace. Granting everyone his own life and honor means one's own life and honor will not be attacked. And the best remedy against war? trading and exchanging goods and sports.


    There is also a part of the translation (Sabian symbols for hexagram lines) from LiSe and I dont know where it fits, where it comes from or what it aspires to. What are the Sabian symbols and how are they used in a reading?

    Initial 6 corresponds to  13: An unsuccessful bomb explosion
    Are there any successful ones?


    This does not bode well for sharing my feelings and if Sabian symbols are relevant then Ill keep my feelings to myself! Until I read that, I thought Id share my feelings with him but now Im confused.

    Hexagram 36 also seems to say be quiet so Im getting conflicting ideas

    To be what you really are, to live the life that belongs to you. That is what everybody wants, but most spoil it because they think it is enough to do just that. Open and impulsive they jump into life, only to find out that everything and everybody counteracts.
    Hide your light, so nobody can blow it out. Be careful and modest in everything you do and show, not to evoke obstructions. Do not deny obstructive forces, explore them and recognize them, so you know what measures to take or how to circumvent them.
    When the trees in an industrial region turned black from the smoke, the butterflies turned black too .. and survived.


    Dont be impulsive? Stay hidden in the background like the butterflies? Help!

    Laura

  2. #2

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    Like you, I am new to the IC, but I'll take a stab at it... 15.1 changing to 36- I think it is saying that if you could talk to him without losing your cool it would be fine (15.1), but don't expect any answers(36). You will still be in the dark in the end though. Maybe he doesn't really understand it himself... Perhaps would be better to wait until your anger has waned a bit? Also, the Sabian Symbol and the IC both seem to be hinting that you would lose your cool to me... I think it is suggesting not to have this conversation with him right now.

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    loulisnowdrop (January 3rd, 2012)

  4. #3

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    'He veils his light, yet still shines."

    I think the key to your answer is in that phrase. this thread has moved me a lot. will be back with more later.

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    loulisnowdrop (January 3rd, 2012)

  6. #4
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    yes, go ahead and tell him. you might end up hurt but is the only way for you to move on or you two to get back together. is either one or another.
    Be not sad.
    Be like the sun at midday.
    tarot

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    loulisnowdrop (January 3rd, 2012)

  8. #5

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    My personal experience with this has been that the guy either doesn't come back or comes back of his own accord when he realizes how much he missed you, yada, yada, yada... Not always, but its usually best to leave them be and let them come back on their own. Now that I'm a little older, I am no longer moved by these returns... Just discouraged by the questioning in the first place... This person does sound great though the way you describe him, and after building such a history I can certainly see why you would be very angry and bitter and resentful as you said. I can also see why you would like to have the relationship back the way it was. But putting things on hold is not healthy. Puts one in a state of anticipation where someone else will decide your fate, and you are just waiting, unable to move forward. Even if you two decided that you might work things out later, in one's heart it is a breakup always. Trying to break up and hold on at the same time. I've been there! But, I've never had much luck talking to anyone while these kinds of emotions are lurking about. Just seems to stir the pot and make them worse, and I wouldn't count on the way you are feeling now being "it"... breaks can be tough and who knows what is deep down inside right now or if you will be able to control these emotions when you are talking to him, and it would certainly be better if he was not around when and if that beast raises its ugly head . Is there anything he can say to you that would make this ok to you? For me, the anger, resentment, and bitterness usually turn to tears once I realize that underneath all that anger I am really deeply hurt. Then I cry for a few weeks or months... Now, you are not me, but perhaps you can identify with this. I'm not saying never talk to him about this... But I think the IC is suggesting you work through some of these emotions first. If this person already feels put upon by other people's demands and dependencies, perhaps talking to him about this right now is not the best approach. He may see that as a sign of emotional dependence or you placing emotional demands on him when he really wants space. The questions I have found to be most helpful here is, "What can I do to bring about the best possible outcome for me and X?" or "What is the best way to handle the situation with X?" or "What is the outcome of waiting for X?" or "What is the outcome of letting go of X?" or just "what is best for me right now?" Just suggestions for some questions that may give you some other ideas about what you can do to work this out. I'm currently living with a man who shattered my heart into a million pieces, so I know where you are coming from. I've moved past the pain now, and you know what. I wouldn't take this guy back for a million bucks. Wish it ended sooner. The point is I had to work through a lot of emotion to get there. You may end up somewhere totally different, but you have to work out these emotions without him. I think the IC is saying just that. I hope me sharing this with you helps, and please, feel free to ask for any support you need...

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    loulisnowdrop (January 3rd, 2012)

  10. #6

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    Thank you so much all of you. I've allowed myself to cool down before coming back to look at this thread and before deciding my action/inaction. Based on the reading and your opinions I will hold my tongue for now.
    Christmas can be a busy time of year for people so that may be part of the reason for him running so many errands. I will leave it for a few weeks and if the situation remains then I will consider saying something. I would dearly love for us to get back together but now I have calmed my thoughts, I'm not feeling so bitter or resentful. Still a bit angry but not at anybody in particular.

    His knowledge of my feelings will not improve the situation any and would only cause him grief but a concern that came to me today is that he's carrying on as before and not achieving what he set out to do. If I do say anything, it will be in the form of a friendly gentle reminder to put himself first rather than me venting my emotions to him. Now the initial anger has gone, I've realised I was just wanting him to know of my hurt in the hope it would give him a good shake.

    Dancing white ferret, thank you so much for sharing your experience, it has helped me to put my situation into context and look at it more objectively. I like your suggestions of other questions and I'm going to cast while asking what I can do to obtain the best outcome for both me and X.

    I'll keep you posted when I'm done.

  11. #7

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    So, to further this, I've asked 'What can I do to obtain the best outcome for both me and X?' 19.6>41

    This looks very contradictory at first glance.
    LiSe says
    On old pictures one can find the All-seeing Eye. It is the eye of God (or Allah, Manitou, whoever), looking down to the earth. In hexagram 20 it is the goddess, the female aspect of looking down, hearing prayers and sorrow and joy. Here it is Law itself, seeing, caring, and providing what is needed. It is the father of the family, making sure everyone can follow his Tao and find his destiny. His ego is not involved, he is objective and severe and fair, and without limits.
    He is like nature, like universal law, caring for all creatures but not being nice to them, creating life but not making it easy. Natural forces, storm and rain, wind and sunshine, they seem all merciless, but they sustain all life on earth.


    To just look on objectively and go with the flow maybe?

    and at line 6 we have

    Generous nearing. Auspicious. Without fault.
    A small heart occupies a big place in one's head. A big heart forgets itself and thinks only of the other and his well-being. But life is a fair merchant: for every thing one takes, one pays a piece of one's soul. For everything one gives, one acquires soul.


    Is this talking about give and take or everything comes at a price? Maybe talking of karma? Also, generous nearing, I'm not sure what that is but it sounds like something is coming.

    Although the hexagrams seem quite contradictory, there is a line in 41 which stands out to me as a direct instruction

    THIS IS ALL
    Get rid of all conditioning and forms. You think you need them for being present in the world, for being visible, being you. But what they do is hiding you. They hide your soul, your essence, your creativity, and they can even destroy all this.
    If you dare to be your naked self, you will be amazed how great and rich it is. Diminishing is augmenting. Only an empty cauldron can receive others and blessings.
    Let go in order to find.


    Let go in order to find This could be what IC is telling me to do but as it is found in the resulting hexagram, I'm wondering if IC is describing what X has already done. 41 also seems to speak of NOT hiding my true self... I'm wondering if IC has thrown the issue of sharing feelings back to me again.

    Whilst this reading does strike a chord as relevant, apart from in the relating hexagram, I can't see a course of action. If IC intended me to focus on 41 then surely I would have been given just that?

  12. #8

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    I think its what you already do as you describe it in your previous post.

  13. #9

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    I believe the IC is telling you to put your ego aside, basically what you think you need, what you think he needs, and shut up that little voice in your head. Hence, where it says, "a small heart occupies a big place in one's head." It is saying that your ego is controlling you and your heart or essence has diminished. That you need to let your essence, your true self, come through. IC says, "A big heart forgets itself and thinks only of the other and his well-being." The IC says just hope for the best for your BF in this situation and do not let your ego trick you thinking of your own wants. That when one has a big heart, they're soul grows. They are strengthened in spirit. 41 sums this up perfectly...

    THIS IS ALL
    Get rid of all conditioning and forms. You think you need them for being present in the world, for being visible, being you. But what they do is hiding you. They hide your soul, your essence, your creativity, and they can even destroy all this.
    If you dare to be your naked self, you will be amazed how great and rich it is. Diminishing is augmenting. Only an empty cauldron can receive others and blessings.
    Let go in order to find.

    I believe the IC is saying to let go of "conditioning and forms." Perhaps images and internal dialogue/thought patterns that mask who you really are, but have developed as a way to deal with the world and being in it. The IC then goes on to refer to an empty cauldron ready to "receive others and blessings." So the IC is being very real with you here, I think, and came back at you with something really profound and very valuable. This reminds me of that old saying that goes something like, do not just pray for love, pray that you are ready when it presents itself. So dump out your "cauldron." Get it all ready for "others and blessings." And don't worry about where they come from. Let all this with this BF go. Just focus on being YOU. Your higher self. Let all this ego and negativity go. And the blessings will follow. I actually have a few threads I ran recently, and Elias wrote some stuff on one about ego that I think you might appreciate, along with some other advice from various members on how to handle the ego and allow abundance into ones life. It is under the thread, "How can I allow abundance into my life?" I posted that question about 2 weeks ago. I'll try to post a link here for you. This seems like brilliant direction from the IC to me, and although I am new to the IC, I am fairly confident that this is generally what the oracle is saying. Best wishes.

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    loulisnowdrop (January 6th, 2012)

  15. #10

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    I thought you might find these links helpful. Seems to be some overlap here, and some of the members had some great insights and advice on this thread.

    http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frien...ad.php?t=14010
    Newbie Question - 6.5,6 > 40 How can I allow abundance into my life

    This one also mentions a cauldron being cleaned or dumped, also an ex BF question! Coincidence, or not!? Steve had some good insight on this, so check it if you have time...

    http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frien...ad.php?t=14000
    New to I Ching - 50.1 > 14 and 51.5 > 17 Ex-Boyfriend - Its Not So Nice to Meet Ya

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    loulisnowdrop (January 6th, 2012)

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