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40.1 and error

mythili

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Do I understand 40.1 correctly - that an error has been made. Say, one is making an assumption that seems logical, so perhaps there's no blame in making that assumption, but still, its an error? And it can be corrected easily, or should be corrected, otherwise it will interfere with developments? At least this is what I get from Brad's translation, but I'm not very sure. Other translations say no mistake, or not a mistake, which tends to imply the opposite of error.
Thanks for any insights.
 
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pocossin

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I understand 40.1 differently. Lines 2 and 6 are about shooting. On this basis and line position, I understand line 1 as 'Hold fire'. If assumption is thought of as shooting, then 40.1 would suggest not making the assumption until you have a clear shot. Wait for more evidence.
 

Trojina

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Do I understand 40.1 correctly - that an error has been made. Say, one is making an assumption that seems logical, so perhaps there's no blame in making that assumption, but still, its an error? And it can be corrected easily, or should be corrected, otherwise it will interfere with developments? At least this is what I get from Brad's translation, but I'm not very sure. Other translations say no mistake, or not a mistake, which tends to imply the opposite of error.
Thanks for any insights.

I take it simply that there is infact no error. You can think there is an error or go looking for one...but there isn't actually one. That interpretation has always held for me anyway. Its not a directive piece of advice IMO...it doesn't tell you to do or not do anything does it ?
 

meng

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The thunder has passed. One may resume fishing.

Let me add: it would be a grave error to fish during a thunderstorm, especially given today's high modulus graphite fishing rods, which make an idle lightening rod. One would have only oneself to blame. Note what was left of the rod, as well as father and son almost lost their lives.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/19730665/detail.html
 
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mythili

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I understand 40.1 differently. Lines 2 and 6 are about shooting. On this basis and line position, I understand line 1 as 'Hold fire'. If assumption is thought of as shooting, then 40.1 would suggest not making the assumption until you have a clear shot. Wait for more evidence.

I think this makes sense to me about this line. Because its turned up whichever assumption I make, and they could be polar opposite ones.
Thank you.
 

Trojina

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:confused: I don't think its saying to wait at all. Theres a heck of alot of ways for the I Ching to say 'wait' including hexagram 5....and actually hex 40 is the very antithesis of waiting

It says ...

"If there is no longer anything where one has to go,
Return brings good fortune.
If there is still something where one has to go,
Hastening brings good fortune."

Wilhelm


(the use of the word 'anything' is quite odd there isn't it ?)


But anyway paraphrased this is saying "if you have something to do do it, if it doesn't need doing let it go. Release, do it or let it go"


Personally I'd say its about as far from advice to wait as its possible to get. I tend most often to find 40 to be about letting go of something that never quite felt right in the first place...or just getting on with what does need to happen. Often it isn't advise as such more descriptive

Since its line 1 it seems not a very big step towards that release...or often not a very big matter ?


Of course if waiting makes sense to you in the context of your question I understand that it could well apply...butin general 40 is not at all about waiting for more evidence
 
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chingching

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I think a lot of line 1 's have a sense of just at the beginning, slowly into it, but I think 40 is like a watershed and the release is immediate.

Even just really taking in the words 'no fault' or 'no error' brings a release , a deliverance from worry or guilt...paranoia or anger and so on.
 

charly

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I think a lot of line 1 's have a sense of just at the beginning, slowly into it, but I think 40 is like a watershed and the release is immediate.

Even just really taking in the words 'no fault' or 'no error' brings a release , a deliverance from worry or guilt...paranoia or anger and so on.
Hi, Chingching:

Te advice of the 1st. line is often BE CAUTIOUS. 40.1 doesn´t say if there was a mistake or not, it only says that you cannot be blamed for the position where you are. Only two words that can be translated diversely:

NO ERROR
NOT A MISTAKE
NO WRONG
NO BLAME​

Maybe the advice is AVOID ERRORS, BUT IF YOU COMMIT SOME, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, CANNOT BE BLAMED. A warning, but don´t worry.

40.1 is exceptionally short but, as you said, has a sense of RELEASE, indeed.

  • Maybe line 1 is only setting matters : «no blame», nothing wrong nor right, nothing about moral principles, only matter of facts.
  • Line 2 could be the main promess: if your are shrewd you can get the jackpot.
  • Line 3 could be a warning: don't be excessive or you'l be lost and you will not arrive to the 6th. line, the summit.

Yours,


Charly
 

chingching

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the advice of the 1st. line is often BE CAUTIOUS

But where, the only translation I have have access to which does sort of advise cautiousness is carol Anthony's companion book to Wilhelmina interpretation, and in reading Wilhelmina I don't get this at all. I get that this is the first moment of release, just be still and let it unwind.

All I have to look at is Hilary's, lise's, bradford's, wilhelm's and those included in Brian's app which is f keagans c anthony a direct translation and his I think. No mento of being cautious.

Bradford talk of an error, wilhelm's a hindrance, Hilary hints at a background event maybe from another person but basically says what I said above, that
The simplest most fundamental beginning to release: this is not wrong

Just no mention of caution or waiting and in my experience too. With 40 I always think about how when it rains I get throbbing pain in my joints and when it stops raining the pain subsides and a wave of relaxation comes over me and at the first moment of this I always lie down and enjoy it, let the unwinding work through my muscles and joints and let it release un monitored by my brain, or thoughts.

I think bradford's interpretation is great if the question is about something someone else has done , and likewise Hilary's and I find wilhelm's useful too, c Anthony's is more specific to if you yourself have done something wrong no it and feel and know you need to rectify it, I find she is very self critical and her interpretation is best consulted if you are in that frame of mind, I don't find her an all rounder.

I think LiSe's is such a joyful view and it's also points to how when receiving to line perhaps someone is being cautious when cautiousness is unnecessary.

...I tired to paste the text from her website here but it won't let me :(
 

bradford

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Think about this for a second. One of the most common mistakes people make in interpreting the lines in forgetting which overall Hexagram they are in.
Here you have the briefest of statements "no blame" in a Hexagram that's all about letting go or forgiveness. Our preoccupation with the wrongness of things and laying blame keeps us tied up in resentments. We can only liberate ourselves by untying ourselves and moving on. It doesn't matter if mistakes were made. They probably were. But it's not the time to dwell on them.
 

charly

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...
All I have to look at is Hilary's, lise's, bradford's, wilhelm's and those included in Brian's app which is f keagans c anthony a direct translation and his I think. No mento of being cautious.
...(
Hi, Chingching:

I said that 1rst. line in general often brings advice of being cautious. In 40.1 the general sense has little to do with it. But there is a possibility if we translate the second word as a verb: instead of NO MISTAKE, DO NOT MISTAKE, of course one can avoid mistakes even without being cautious.

In my understanding the more general sense is not about being cautious or waiting but GO FORWARD AND DONT WORRY.

Yours,


Charly
 

tuckchang

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Do I understand 40.1 correctly - that an error has been made. Say, one is making an assumption that seems logical, so perhaps there's no blame in making that assumption, but still, its an error? And it can be corrected easily, or should be corrected, otherwise it will interfere with developments? At least this is what I get from Brad's translation, but I'm not very sure. Other translations say no mistake, or not a mistake, which tends to imply the opposite of error.
Thanks for any insights.

For your reference:

Hex 41 is named 損sun3: the loss as those below (the lines of the bottom trigram) decrease themselves with a view to increasing those above (the lines of the upper trigram).
41.1 should do what it is designated to but not overdo, and then no fault.

Regards
Tuck
www.iching123.com
 

chingching

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NO MISTAKE, DO NOT MISTAKE, of course one can avoid mistakes even without being cautious.

I see what you are trying to say, but like Bradford said keeping the whole hex in mind I just could never get a sense of being cautious from this line. But you know I don't do readings for others I'd be interested to know how many querents get this line who have a sense that they want to remain cautious at this time, if any... I can recall a few SR threads where people are wanting to mull over things when they have received a 40.
 

meng

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Think about this for a second. One of the most common mistakes people make in interpreting the lines in forgetting which overall Hexagram they are in.
Here you have the briefest of statements "no blame" in a Hexagram that's all about letting go or forgiveness. Our preoccupation with the wrongness of things and laying blame keeps us tied up in resentments. We can only liberate ourselves by untying ourselves and moving on. It doesn't matter if mistakes were made. They probably were. But it's not the time to dwell on them.

There's a lot of assumption that everything in the oracle is tied up in human drama rather than first identifying with its natural phenomenon. Thunder over water, prior to potentially being a human metaphor, can be taken literally as a natural occurrence. Hence my use of a storm which is over and it being safe, error free, etc, to resume fishing or going back out onto the water. Perhaps this sounds overly simplified, but I know first hand that during fishing tournaments, thunder storms sent nearly everyone back to the launch until it passed over. Then once it had passed over for awhile, it was without blame to resume activities on the water. This is a primitive reality, preceding any metaphorical inter-human dramatic affair, though the lesson is applicable to the latter. And as far as human affairs, there are other more literal applications. I've been chased off stage more than a few times by a passing thunderstorm, shutting down and covering or removing all electrical equipment before exiting. Once the storm had passed (assuming it did), there was no blame in resuming the gig.

I don't deny the IC's human dramatic applications, but sometimes it seems to be made into a cheap paperback novel.
 

mythili

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It doesn't matter if mistakes were made. They probably were. But it's not the time to dwell on them.
.
Its not the time to dwell on having made the mistake - yes. I was asking though, if the assumption I had made was a mistaken one. So 40.1 is probably saying yes, its a mistake, or, it could be a mistake, or it doesnt matter whether it was a mistake or not, whatever it is, but dont dwell on it, let it go and move on. Yes?
 
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chingching

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human dramas are nature too, we are not separate from it, our drama are a product of being apart of it that is why I look out for full moons, human dramas seem to multiply on a full moon. But talking directly to and about human dramas is the same as talking about nature, we are apart of it, regardless of our technology our brains our consumption and pollution or never ending search for a partner, in the grand scheme of things talking about all those things is the same as talking about how plants turn their leaves to the sun. Ever look at a dehydrated plant and imagine a voice 'I just cant find what I need right now, I just need to go somewhere new to re-vitalise myself, some time for me'

Maybe mountains have a yijing where all the images are talkative little sister above meditative old man. lol.

A dying enclosed tree reads about nelson mandela's time in jail and finds hope.
 

meng

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human dramas are nature too, we are not separate from it, our drama are a product of being apart of it that is why I look out for full moons, human dramas seem to multiply on a full moon. But talking directly to and about human dramas is the same as talking about nature, we are apart of it, regardless of our technology our brains our consumption and pollution or never ending search for a partner, in the grand scheme of things talking about all those things is the same as talking about how plants turn their leaves to the sun. Ever look at a dehydrated plant and imagine a voice 'I just cant find what I need right now, I just need to go somewhere new to re-vitalise myself, some time for me'

Maybe mountains have a yijing where all the images are talkative little sister above meditative old man. lol.

A dying enclosed tree reads about nelson mandela's time in jail and finds hope.

Oh, I agree. It's just that earthly natural phenomenon predates human behavior by an estimated 4.5 billion years. I don't know how far lightening/thunder above water predates the human specifies, but it's safe to say hexagram 40 existed in nature long before it was observed and named by humans. Note I said observed and named, not created nor invented by. I think this fact deserves acknowledgment before applying it or limiting it to the human sphere of interrelationships, which becomes increasingly subjective and complicated the more it's debated.
 

charly

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Highlighting Wilhelm/Baynes:

[40.6 commentary]Confucius says about this line :

The hawk is the object of the hunt; bow and arrow are the tools and means. The marksman is man (who must make proper use of the means to his end). The superior man contains the means in his own person. He bides his time and then acts. Why then should not everything go well? He acts and is free. Therefore all he has to do is to go forth, and he takes his quarry. This is how a man fares who acts after he has made ready the means.

Wilhelm / Baynes

HUNTING: fetching wives
HAWK: the target → a woman [?]
MARKSMAN → SHOOTER: a man
BOW & ARROW: Tools & means → contained in the own person [body?] of the man
WHAT MEN HAVE TO DO: to go foth and take the quarry → of course, the arrow [means] must be ready.

she4 [身 shen1 body, 寸 cun4 hand]: to shoot / to send out / archery
shen1: a body / a trunk /a child in the womb / one's own person / oneself / in person / personally

Source: Sears´ Chineseetymology

Back to the begining:

[from 40.1 commentary]
... few words are needed... deliverance has come. One recuperates in peace and keeps still.
This is the right thing to do ...
Wilhelm / Baynes

Say, enjoy it and don´t worry.

Charly
 
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chingching

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It's just that earthly natural phenomenon predates human behavior by an estimated 4.5 billion years.
lol

Its interesting talking about error, I don't like making mistakes much myself but am seeing in action how those who simply move on from an error get more things done and are less emotionally burdened than I, frankly I don't even think they consider themselves even having made a mistake to begin with.
 

heylise

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"Blame", jiu, was in ancient China something a ghost or spirit caused. Making its victim sick, or even causing him to die. See Constance Cook "Death in ancient China", where she mentions it many times.
..unhappy ghosts and spirits that he somehow offended, thus incurring “blame” jiu.. (p.71)
See Omen Terms , the second one.

So "no blame" means there is nothing which is causing trouble. You didn't offend any ghosts or ancestors, you can go ahead with what you want to do, your plans, the time is favorable. The line changes to 54, the maiden who does not have many possibilities, but can do things within her powers. "Lame yet able to walk".
 

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