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Major difference between 25.1 and 25.6?

S

sooo

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I've asked this question here years ago but the difference is still not perfectly clear to me. I can pick up the idea of thoughtless or impulsive action from line 6, rather than the 'original and innocent impulse of the heart' in line 1. Can someone definitively explain the essential difference between these two lines?

I'm told by my PCP I can expect the cardiologist to implant a Pacemaker asap, due to a very low standing pulse rate. I asked the Yi, since my heart is otherwise already weak and compromised with CHF, how would the implant procedure go? 25>1,6 - 45. Can someone distinguish here between lines 1 and 6 in this case?

Thanks
 

Trojina

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In my line 1 and 6 theory...I'm looking at the pattern rather than the wording of each line. (yang pattern here is 27, yin pattern 28)...hex 45 'busts' through the chance iness of 25. For me with this answer 45 is like the dog jumping through a hoop covered in paper...45 comes through the mouth of 25.1.6...hence in a possibly dicey procedure....where things may have a chance of going wrong, as in any procedure, 45 holds it together.

I'm thinking with lines 1 and 6 both in the answer then all of 25 is there, as a framework, at once. But it is 45 I feel that gives the auspice.

Hence IMO it is a favourable auspice for holding together. In some translations 45 is about gathering in illness, weapons ready.

I'm not saying there is no meaning for 25.1 and 25.6 here, it will be somewhere within the situation, but I feel the 45 over rides it in general.

Not answered your exact question as 25.6 needs more thought...but I think the answer is a fair auspice for the procedure. Couldn't be better could it ? 45 holds it's eggs (heart) in it's basket and jumps through the hoop of 25.1.6 without breaking any. That's how I see it.
 
S

sooo

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Some interesting thoughts there, Trojan. Thanks for sharing them. Will need to think more on them.
 

anemos

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Hi,

Maybe not a direct answer to your questions, but I can share how I read a recent 25.1.6>45 reading.

Was about a paper had expire which I had "forgot" about it. After thinking more about how I forgot to take care was an inner impulse not to renew it because it binds me with something didn't like. Hex 45 , to me spoke about the necessity to take care of it because otherwise it would cause some difficulties , so I took the overall reading as I should protect myself from extra problems by taking care of it. My disengagement from this process wouldn't secure my position so I should stop acting from my impulses - being "ignorant"- and go for it. I thought that line 6 was talking about my inner resistance which was against the reality of the situation. Without going into boring details, although i had to bind myself, it gives me also a kind of freedom .
 

rodaki

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hey Bruce,

25.1 to me is the 'natural is good' line . . whereas it doesn't always promise success, even the 12 that lurks behind it, it's still a non-threatening state, cause it all happens in the process of natural, non-entangled, non-problematic progress. So there you let things take their shape and find their own path of expression which is genuine, if not always perfect.

Line 6 on the other hand, is where things get really entangled . . that might come as natural consequence of previous states, but here it has reached the point of exhausting its fruitful momentum - it's like it is with plants: all-natural farming is good, but there comes a time to de-bug and what-have-you and make sure the plants don't fall prey to the hazards of nature

45, you take the good along with the bad and it all works together and helps each other to the best of their capacity . . like germs in our bodies which are not to be totally fought against, as they too serve their purpose within the structure of our organisms.

I think 45 is actually a lovely omen for a health reading; no fighting going on, just safety in numbers and protective measures



:sending solid health vibes over:
take care!
:hug:
 
S

sooo

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Maria, thanks! That could fit this situation so well, knowing my feelings on the whole western medical system especially. Very helpful. :bows:

I've been gnawing quite a bit on Bradford's rendering of 25.6. The line of thought there being going into it presuming we know what we're going into. A friend said that it took the third (I think) doctor to find that this type of problem was caused by some thing else entirely in someone they knew. So going into it with the presumption of what will or won't happen is just wrong thinking. It's innocent, but stupid lol.. we're (I mean me) going in to be looked at. He may decide to try different meds. But everyone I talk to who has been through or around it, says get it done.

Listening to other people gets me in lots of trouble, usually. Hate the idea of batteries required. Now is that line 1 thinking, or line 6 thinking?
 
S

sooo

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hey Dora, thanks for weighing in.

You answered what I'd written before I read it. When is natural unfortunate?
 

anemos

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Listening to other people gets me in lots of trouble, usually. Hate the idea of batteries required. Now is that line 1 thinking, or line 6 thinking?

It's natural ;) .What time is it, might be the question lines 1 & 6 ask.
 

Trojina

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A few experiences of 25.6 I read of in wiki...

I think 2 concern Hilary's cooking. She intended to cook something good for her husband, but got distracted and it all burned in the pan.

Answering the question you posed to Dora...'when is the natural unfortunate ?'...see above example. It's natural enough for one's attention to go where it will, perfectly natural, but it can mean a badly burned inedible dinner. Conscious attention was needed.

For myself I have seen it manifest as someone who is simply not as engaged as they need to be....they act as if it were not their problem. So in 25.1 it's not your problem, you are disentangled in a good way but in 25.6 you have gotten a point where you really aren't as bothered as you need to be.

How this may apply to you I can't say...other than it looks as if it is your responsibility to engage with something maybe previously you disengaged from.....it was okay then but now you need to engage again.

Maybe previously you kind of let your heart issue do it's thing, no intervention. The time has passed for that and it is time for intervention. I'm tending to see it as 'get it done'. I mean if there is a doubt I'd see 25.6 as advise not to let it go on doing it's own thing as you have before.
 
S

sooo

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Hi Trojan,

Yes, I agree with what you wrote, and I was also agreeing and making an example in the statement, posed as a question: 'when is the natural unfortunate?' Quite often, actually, and in this case, doing nothing, most likely. Yes, it's clearer to me now.

But there's no guarantees with these things, either way. I think that's a pretty line 1 way of seeing it.

What you said near the end about not dealing with intervention before, then minimally only, now more fully, makes a lot of sense.

Well, Wilhelm did subtitle 25 The Unexpected, so it's probably safe to expect that.
 

bradford

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"Perfect sincerity offers no guarantee." Zhuangzi
You cannot build an edifice on the successes of 25.1 and remain without pretensions.
Sometimes **** happens and it's in explaining that that we grow a lot of our own mental troubles.
 
S

sooo

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"Perfect sincerity offers no guarantee." Zhuangzi
You cannot build an edifice on the successes of 25.1 and remain without pretensions.
Sometimes **** happens and it's in explaining that that we grow a lot of our own mental troubles.

Truer words were never spoken. And have found their truth in the hottest and coldest of places, particularly. Yes, the asking, "why?", the need for a reason, as though living owes us one, life is not enough.
 
S

sooo

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Still have the vision of a cat or dog leaping through the paper covered hoop. Good image.
 

rodaki

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hey Dora, thanks for weighing in.

You answered what I'd written before I read it. When is natural unfortunate?


maybe it'd become clearer if you see it time-wise: line 1 is like flicking a switch; it's either on or off, it cares not for before and after as it reinforces or denies either of them. It's the power of Now: does it hurt or not? does it work, help, hinder Now? I don't think either Heaven or Thunder care much about the aftermath, veered as they are towards fulfilling their moment and momentum.

Line 6 cares for the process and for the way the Now's interact, the way the dots connect in the big picture, their before's and after's, ie, 17, What Follows. Seems that Lake, geared towards exchange, rather seeks to find how they work along the rest of the locale (45)

hope it helps
 
S

sooo

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Hi Dora,

Again, I wasn't questioning what you wrote, I rhetorically summed up what I read as the essential point pertaining to line 6: When is natural unfortunate? It dovetails also with what Brad said.

It could be considered unnatural to have such an 'artificial' implement as batteries to metronome ones heart. Leaving it be would be natural, and very soon likely to result in an unfortunate loss of life. I got that mostly from what you had said. I wasn't asking a question, I was supporting your point, or what I thought was your point.
 

rodaki

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yup, yup, I didn't suppose anything more, just elaborating some & sharing some (new-to-me-thoughts)
;)
 

Trojina

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I'm told by my PCP I can expect the cardiologist to implant a Pacemaker asap, due to a very low standing pulse rate.

Do you know when this is going to happen Bruce or will they just call you in at short notice....or do they await your decision ?

You have a tin man as a little totem don't you ? You won't be a tin man if you have the pacemaker....but you will know how he feels a bit more won't you ?

Oh and how long does the op take ? Will you be in hospital a while or just a day or two ?
 

Trojina

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In anycase I think it's a good time to rearrange your totems. That would be a 45 activity....regroup them for max support.

You had a photo of them all here once ?
 
S

sooo

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Do you know when this is going to happen Bruce or will they just call you in at short notice....or do they await your decision ?

You have a tin man as a little totem don't you ? You won't be a tin man if you have the pacemaker....but you will know how he feels a bit more won't you ?

Oh and how long does the op take ? Will you be in hospital a while or just a day or two ?

Haha, you mean my mighty Myth Man. Yes, he's still around somewhere, as is the tiny Buddha that stands next to him, all symbolic of course. Some of my things aren't unpacked as I don't plan on making this a permanent resident, but want to get these two doc appointments out of the way first; a cardiologist and urologist, locally.

You see, the nearest Veterans Admin hospital is over three hours away, each way. This is a short, experimental program, using local civilian doctors to examine serious cases. Since my pulse is steadily extremely low, driving long distances presents a potential hazard (falling asleep or passing out at the wheel). Tomorrow I see the cardiologist, but it's only one VA approved appointment. He may order me sent to ICU and prepare for nearly immediate surgery (am told it takes about three hours), or he may request additional appointments to experiment with meds and such. It's ultimately up to the VA to decide, with his opinion carrying heavy weight. So I think it's all up to this local doc to decide. I can't function normally like this, and the pulse continues to slowly drop, last down to 30 bpm (one beat every two seconds); not good. It should be over 60. Doctors commonly send patients to ER with a standing pulse of 30, and he may do just that. Or the VA may have me sent out to one of their city hospitals and do the procedure there. I'm in the dark as much as anyone on this. No idea what's going to happen.

After that, the same deal for a local urologist, due to enlarged prostate and a high PSA, indicative often of existing cancer or just enlarged prostate, causing inconvenient problems. (no, women aren't the only ones who have to deal with these kinds of things when growing old) Again, no idea what they'll find or what action they'll want to take, or how soon. I really am going into this whole thing like a deer in the headlights.

PS: Myth Man is a symbol of my ego and everything associated with it; Buddha, well, we know what that little dude stands for. Those are about my only totems these days; well coyotes, hummingbirds and crows too, but they're alive and a little hard to arrange. :)
 

Trojina

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It sounds very frightening to know your heart is only 30bpm....gives a whole new meaning to the expression 'laid back'. I actually hope that they just get on with it tomorrow straight away. I hope they don't mess about experimenting with drugs...I shouldn't think they will because it sounds to me like they don't have the leeway time for experimentation. I mean you can't go on walking about the place with your heart at 30bpm.

Re the prostrate heard it's very common and often, even if it is cancer, that kind of cancer often develops so slowly most men even have it in some form by the time they die. Well so my supervisor at the cancer centre I used to work at told me...I'm no expert obviously.

Not worth thinking/worrying about that anyway till the heart issue is dealt with.

Good Luck ! Keep us posted.
 

Trojina

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[video=youtube;VDC09aBTcJw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDC09aBTcJw&feature=player_detailpage#t=53[/video]
 

hilary

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I don't have anything to add about 25 1 and 6, but about pacemakers - Mum-in-law had one fitted last year. Her pulse was down to 30-40 (heart enlarged, signals not getting through). She didn't feel too bad, except that she did pass out a few times and had a strange feeling of apprehension, not wanting to be alone. After a very nasty moment, she had the pacemaker fitted in a hurry - and left hospital the same day, and has been physically active and normal ever since. The pacemaker batteries are good for many years yet, so all they do is a 6-monthly checkup where it's tested remotely, without even touching her. You know how I normally am about doctors in general and hospitals in particular, but pacemakers? Brilliant. Recommended by all the best mothers-in-law.

Good luck with it. I'm sure the coyotes will arrange themselves.
 
S

sooo

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Trojan, Few die from prostate cancer, but the discomfort and possible complications with other organs are more of a threat and often still warrant the same kind of surgery, so I've been told by the VA staff.

I too would rather they whisk me into the local hospital, where his office is located, and just get it done, then and there. But having seen the VA deal with our local vets, I'm pretty sure they'd have me flown via medi-vac to Vegas or Phoenix VA hospital, and do it themselves, then charge me for the helicopter ride enough to give a healthy man a heart attack. I've been told it's happened.
 
S

sooo

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I don't have anything to add about 25 1 and 6, but about pacemakers - Mum-in-law had one fitted last year. Her pulse was down to 30-40 (heart enlarged, signals not getting through). She didn't feel too bad, except that she did pass out a few times and had a strange feeling of apprehension, not wanting to be alone. After a very nasty moment, she had the pacemaker fitted in a hurry - and left hospital the same day, and has been physically active and normal ever since. The pacemaker batteries are good for many years yet, so all they do is a 6-monthly checkup where it's tested remotely, without even touching her. You know how I normally am about doctors in general and hospitals in particular, but pacemakers? Brilliant. Recommended by all the best mothers-in-law.

Good luck with it. I'm sure the coyotes will arrange themselves.

I spoke with an 85 yo gent yesterday who has worn one for over two decades. He said it has worked very well and is pretty hassle free. He was having fainting spells with his bpm reaching 22!

Thanks for sharing your mum-in-law's example. Sounds pretty typical of the successes these little ticker timers enjoy. Interesting that she too had an enlarged heart, and 'signals not getting through.' Curious if she was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, as well, and if that was a result of this signal obstruction. Oh well, I hope to get some of those same answers tomorrow.

The coyotes, oh yeah, they've been organizing, banding actually, since the cold nights have come. There will be a major reduction of the rabbit population during this moon. That's some 25.1 and 25.6 right there, depending on whether you're a rabbit or the coyote.
 

anemos

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As long as a man's inner nature remains stronger and richer than anything offered by external fortune, as long as he remains inwardly superior to fate, fortune will not desert him.

i carried that with me , in my mojo bag and mind; you may recognize it . It gave me strength and hope.

May gods be with you and your helpers.



 

hilary

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I spoke with an 85 yo gent yesterday who has worn one for over two decades. He said it has worked very well and is pretty hassle free. He was having fainting spells with his bpm reaching 22!

Thanks for sharing your mum-in-law's example. Sounds pretty typical of the successes these little ticker timers enjoy. Interesting that she too had an enlarged heart, and 'signals not getting through.' Curious if she was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, as well, and if that was a result of this signal obstruction. Oh well, I hope to get some of those same answers tomorrow.

The coyotes, oh yeah, they've been organizing, banding actually, since the cold nights have come. There will be a major reduction of the rabbit population during this moon. That's some 25.1 and 25.6 right there, depending on whether you're a rabbit or the coyote.

Quite!

I'll pm you.
 

rosada

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I think 25.1 says BEFORE you have an experience one is innocent, clueless, but that's okay.
I think 25.6 says AFTER you have had the experience if you are STILL innocent, clueless, then that's really bad - like you must be dumb as a box of rocks.

Combined in your case I say the I Ching is simply telling you that you will be knocked out during the operation, you wont feel a thing.

The resultant hexagram sounds very positive, Gathering Together - as if to say, ""Don't worry you'll have a team of supportive friends and doctors taking good care of you through it all." Also 45 refers to gathering together weapons to be prepared for the unforeseen - perhaps indicating this pacemaker is to protect you from the unforeseen.

Best wishes Bruce!
Rosada
 
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S

sooo

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Passing storms knocked us offline, so am writing this while offline.

Several of my readings on this were answered today. I think that alone is something pretty significant. Change unfurls gradually as it happens.

In my non-medical language and as I understand it, there’s one valve or contact that’s not working at all, and it won’t allow the pulse frequency the heart needs. Class 3 block, or something-or-other, and a prime candidate for a pacemaker. It’s set for this coming Wed morning. Will stay overnight and be released the following day.

In addition he’s ordered other tests, where he found anything suspicious, even a head examination. Damn, people been telling me to get one of those for 60 years! Since he does not have the files/x-rays from my original chf work ups, he’s treating this more or less as from scratch, which is good. Maybe really get to the core of this thing. Same meds meanwhile. They may fix something I didn’t know was broken, and mend something that wasn’t as broken as I thought.

Thanks for your input on this one, and your care, expressed here and elsewhere.

If I’m around, guess you’ll know it went well, and maybe picked up a grain more on 25, lines 1 and 6. I can’t say yet it’s perfectly clear to me. That is, I think there’s more yet to learn.

Sorry for the delayed post. I’ll have to go kick my isp’s a$$, once I become Supermeng.
 
S

sooo

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I asked the Yi for a reading to go to sleep on after gathering all this info today. 17.1 - 45

Wilhelm's line 1 distinctly reminded me of jumping through that video's hoop.
 

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