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goddessliss

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I was born in Luton county of bedford in 1960 but have no time on my birth certificate - does anyone in the UK know if they have archives of the time of birth over there? thanks Liss
 

Trojina

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Liss...meant to answer but forgot. I was born same year as you in the UK and have no birth time on my birth certificate. I don't think birth time was usually on birth certificates back then, not sure about now.
 
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goddessliss

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Yes I know it's a bummer but I just wondered whether they actually kept a record book and may have it in their archives somewhere. Could you- ring them or are you not in the UK anymore? It was a the Luton hospital in Bedford Shire which I believe has been taken over by an airport.
 

Trojina

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Yes I'm still in UK but not sure that hospitals themselves keep records from that long ago. Recently I had to order my full birth certificate from the registry....no birth time on it.


I'll google to see if people can get birth times....somehow I doubt it
 
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goddessliss

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I googled it and apparently they only record time for twin births. Trying to find a free downloadable birth rectification program, not havin' much luck! :brickwall:
 

Liselle

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Maybe you could try asking Yi what sign your ascendant is in, or some other sort of question to try to narrow things down?
 
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goddessliss

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Thanks Lisa

What is my ascendant sign in - Hex 23 Stripping Away - well I gotta say it reminds me of an Aquarian!
 

Liselle

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23's trigrams are Mountain over Earth. Do you have any planets in Earth signs (Taurus, Virgo, or Capricorn)? If so, it could be saying that one of those planets is near your ascendant.

Bradford includes astrological associations in his commentary, and his association for 23 is Saturn in Earth. That makes sense since Saturn rules Capricorn, and Capricorn is associated with mountains.

Look at your chart for the following: (1) planets that are in Earth signs, (2) the signs that your Saturn, Mercury, and Venus are in. (Because Saturn, Mercury, and Venus rule the Earth signs of Capricorn, Virgo, and Taurus, respectively).
 

Trojina

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I'm not one for trying to cross divination systems or correspondences, not at all, but this is just an idea.

I happened to take an old astrology book off the shelf today and was reading about Pluto, which is currently transiting my Saturn...

.................anyway these words caught my eye particularly in relation to 23

'Pluto falling in a particular part of my natal chart can indicate that my attitude to that area of life must be totally destroyed then rebuilt in a new way. My orientation toward this entire field of experience may undergo total change and regeneration'

From Stephen Arroyo 'Relationships and Life Cycles'

It therefore came to me, it might signify that where your Pluto is, Liss, is precisely where your ascendant is ?

Since Pluto moves so slowly you'll know the degree more or less for your month and year.


My ascendant is close conjunct Pluto, I was born same year as you. I'm wondering if you have Pluto on the ascendant which would make your rising sign Virgo.

I'm only saying this since it was a synchronicity that I was thinking of your rising sign and noticed those words in the book which seemed 23ish
 

Liselle

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Trojina, yes, I agree Pluto near the ascendant is a good option for 23 unchanging. Pluto can be a "stripper away-er." Depending on other things, it can also lend power to the personality, or mean that the person will continually transform themselves, or various other things, depending on circumstances.

Madonna allegedly has Pluto near her ascendant, although that is disputed according to this source. Tiger Woods has Pluto in his first house.

Your point about correspondences is well taken - I don't know what I think about them in general, not that I've spent any time on it. I mostly got the idea of planets in Earth signs from 23's trigrams (Mountain over Earth). I was happy to see that Bradford's correspondence agreed, but if it hadn't, the trigrams are still there.

Figuring out Liss's chart with clues from the I Ching, if we can manage to do it at all, and if Liss still wants to try, will probably be a process of trial and error and making refinements. The hope is that at some point we'll ask something like, "How accurate is this?" and Yi will break out in a big smile.

I think two good first steps are to see if Liss has planets in Earth signs, and also to straighten out the exact location. Liss, you mentioned that the hospital where you were born was turned into an airport. What is the name of the airport, so we can locate it on a map and get latitude and longitude? Purpose being that there are three variables in determining an ascendant - date, time, and location. We may as well batten down the two of those that are knowable before going any farther.

Also, Liss, did your mother ever say anything about your birth time? Even something vague, like you were born in the middle of the night, or at lunchtime, or anything?

(It's probably also a possibility that what Yi means by 23 unchanging is this isn't something you need to know...stripping away the non-essential or something like that. I suppose another couple questions will let us know if Yi is cooperating...)
 

Liselle

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Another possiblity for 23 might be a combination of clues - a planet in an earth sign, separating from the ascendant. That could mean that the planet is on the 1st house side of the ascendant, rather than the 12th house side. This is too much speculation for now, without even knowing if Liss has a planet in an earth sign - but I could see 23 referring to the astrological concept of separating, just like 19 could mean applying or approaching, 8 could mean a conjunction, etc.
 

Trojina

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I just tried to send you a PM Lisa but your box is full and I can't. I wanted to know how to stop pictures I post turning into links. I thought I had just succeeded in posting some photos but they had turned to links again. This was explained somewhere but I cannot find the thread. I know you had a similar problem and you figured how to do it. For me to figure how to do it, it has to be very very simple instructions....with no long words. I'm not so clever with computers you see. :flirt: that's my 'sweet but dim' face

Sorry to hi jack thread Liss...but I am trying to get Lisa's attention. BTW if you join CC you get 200 messages space rather than 10. 10 is pretty useless isn't it...at least I think it's 10 that you are allowed before your box is full ?
 
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goddessliss

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Thanks so very much for your interest you two - gosh my mother and I had not the best relationship and for 13 years I celebrated my birthday on the 13th December then when we got out the birth certificates for naturalisation it clearly states on my birth certificate the 14th December.

On the certificate it says Luton Hospital, County of Bedford.

- Liss
 

Liselle

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I just tried to send you a PM Lisa but your box is full and I can't. I wanted to know how to stop pictures I post turning into links. I thought I had just succeeded in posting some photos but they had turned to links again. This was explained somewhere but I cannot find the thread. I know you had a similar problem and you figured how to do it.

Hi Trojina - if you're still awake in your time zone, I just now got home and saw this - I do remember the pictures thing - I'll try to find the thread with the instructions in a bit.

I didn't even know my box is full. I haven't used it recently. Thought I'd emptied it but apparently not. Will fix.

Thanks so very much for your interest you two - gosh my mother and I had not the best relationship and for 13 years I celebrated my birthday on the 13th December then when we got out the birth certificates for naturalisation it clearly states on my birth certificate the 14th December.

On the certificate it says Luton Hospital, County of Bedford.

- Liss

You were celebrating the wrong birthday for 13 years??? Good grief :(.

So is it this hospital? http://www.ldh.nhs.uk/contact-us/

But you said the hospital where you were born had been replaced by an airport, so I'm wondering if this Luton & Dunstable Hospital is a new location (?), which may or may not be close by the original hospital (?)

Let me google for something like "airports in Luton" and see if we can figure out where the hospital used to be :confused:.
 
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goddessliss

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Yes this is the now hospital which is in a new location. Many people have told me the original hospital has been replaced by the airport.

The address on the certificate says The Chase Hitchin Road Luton - no street number.
 

Liselle

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Yes this is the now hospital which is in a new location. Many people have told me the original hospital has been replaced by the airport.

The address on the certificate says The Chase Hitchin Road Luton - no street number.

Hm. This is confusing. Obviously I don't know anything about these places, but I made a Google map with Hitchin Road (I couldn't find a Chase Hitchin Road), and added London Luton Airport to it, and as you can see, that airport is not on Hitchin Road. (I also added the new hospital's location, just for perspective.)

Map

Maybe there's a different airport? A little tiny one, maybe, that's not on maps? I don't see how it could be this London Luton Airport - how could an airport have replaced a hospital which had an address on Hitchin Road, but the airport is not near Hitchin Road?

When I search for just "Luton, UK" on Google Maps, and then use the "search nearby" feature to look for "airport," London Luton Airport is the only one which shows up.

:confused:

I'm also not sure how close is close enough for a chart. Precision always seems to be best, but I've heard that more for birth times than for geography. People always want the exact minute of birth, but until recent years no one knew the exact latitude and longitude of a building. If someone said they were born in Luton, that seemed to be as far as it went.

What do you think?
 

Liselle

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Maybe we could use the latitude and longitude for the piece of Hitchin Road which is closest to the Luton London Airport? Google Maps will apparently calculate coordinates for any spot at all.

(Of course this does not solve the little mystery of the Chase Hitchin Road. For all we know, that's a different street altogether.)
 
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goddessliss

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I think the location must be called The Chase and the road is called Hitchen.

What on earth does this mean?
The location of the current roundabout at the junction with Vauxhall Way was known as Arsley Bottom. In July 1933 a few months after Stopsley was brought under Luton Council it was decided that east of The Chase the road would be known as Hitchin Road East. This was presumably so that the good people of Luton would not be confused by a reference to Hitchin Road without realising that it was in far-off Stopsley.
taken from http://www.lutonstreetnames.co.uk/cgi-bin/story_display.cgi?weekno=11

I've done google maps too and not making any sense of it. We definitely need a North Londoner to help us.
 

Liselle

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Trojina,

I just tried PM'ing you about the pictures, and now it's telling me that your inbox is full. Meanwhile, it says I have only two messages stored of the ten allowed, so I can't figure out why it would have told you my box was full. :freak:

(I did originally post about it in this thread - you may have gotten an email to that effect - but then I remembered about using private messages :duh: and deleted it.)
 

Liselle

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Liss, I'm glad (I think) that I'm not the only one confused.

I'm just not sure how is best to proceed, in order to not waste a lot of effort. In other words, if we do readings to try to pin down your ascendant, and manage to do that successfully with vague coordinates like "Luton" - and then we're able to get a more exact location - will we have to start all over again because now it's moved things?

I'll try to play around with my astrology program to see what difference a few miles makes. I suspect it will make a difference, but I've never fiddled with that before and I really don't know.

(But not until tomorrow. It's past my bedtime now :zzz:)

Oh, one other thing is that we must make sure of the time zone and any strange changes to it. In December 1960 was it just plain GMT? I'll google "time changes in the UK" to try to make sure. (Tomorrow.)
 
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svenrus

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If You don't know the Year, month or day You'r probably lost....

If it's just the hour You'r lookin for You can be helped finding the "Cosmic cut"...

http://www.exploratoryastrology.dk/412065571

http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/de/Heinrich_Kündig

& google for Heinrich Kündig. But I'm afraid You'll have to be deep into being able to master the art of configuring horoscopes and having the tooles for it available: ephemerids, table of houses and so on....

I have used the socalled "Kündig-corrections" when figuring out horoscopes.
 
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goddessliss

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Thanks Svenrus - I'm happy to do a rectification using events but I thought I needed software to complete it.
 
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svenrus

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If You do have Year, month and day, at least Year and month, You could borrow an Ephemerid - take the Sun and count one day = one year - follow the Suns movement through the days (= years) up to specific events in Your life/significantly/spectacular, and see if there is any fittings between the position of the Sun in relation to planets (specially conjunctions) and trying vice versa the day (= year) before, after and so on, until there are significantly fittings to be found - And then working backwards finding the date of birth this way....

But, I know, it's extremely complicated (!) And it need's a skilled understanding in the significances of the constellationary meanings of the planets/signs.
 
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svenrus

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Onlineephemerids: http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm

Ephemerid 1985 januaryII.jpg

The red frame is the movement of the Sun and the blue frame is the places of the planets in the Birth horoscope. In the 10'th year between 1.1.95 unto 1.1.96 the conjunction Sun-Jupiter will take place...

This is just an example for a person born 1'th of january 1985

2.1.85 = 1.1.86
3.1.85 = 1.1.87
4.1.85 = 1.1.88 and so on....
 
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svenrus

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- But the reason why this method is extremely complicated is that one probably will find a lot of hits planetary aspects and events in life between - and having to distinguish between all of those. That's where one have to be skilled in the astrological terms, so to speak.

Heinrich Kündigs method needs even more skill in astrological practice....
 
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Trojina

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Trojina,

I just tried PM'ing you about the pictures, and now it's telling me that your inbox is full. Meanwhile, it says I have only two messages stored of the ten allowed, so I can't figure out why it would have told you my box was full. :freak:

(I did originally post about it in this thread - you may have gotten an email to that effect - but then I remembered about using private messages :duh: and deleted it.)


:blush:

:rofl:

......yes it was my inbox that was full.......I have cleared some now. Geez I'm allowed 300 which includes 'sent items' for some unknown reason...and I got so slack about having so many I never bothered deleting any......
 
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svenrus

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Sorry goddessliss, haven't looked at Your commentary: "I'm happy to do a rectification using events....", so this shouldn't be a problem for You basically.
 
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Liselle

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svenrus

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Maybe I should just BackOff...


Sorry trying to be helpfull

Anothertime maybe

ANYWHERE: Hope Youl'll figure it out. Sincere

- hmmm. The stars ? Aint thee above ?

hmmm. We, aint we below ?


.... ?


:D:D:D
 

Liselle

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Maybe I should just BackOff...


Sorry trying to be helpfull

Anothertime maybe

ANYWHERE: Hope Youl'll figure it out. Sincere

- hmmm. The stars ? Aint thee above ?

hmmm. We, aint we below ?


.... ?


:D:D:D

:confused:

What?? You are being helpful, I think? I mean, I haven't looked into the suggestions you made, nor have I ever formally rectified a chart, but I have asked Yi some rectification-type questions, as well as other astrological questions, and have gotten helpful responses. What I'm suggesting to Liss is that whatever else she does to figure out her chart, it may help to do readings about it.

There is groundwork to lay, though, I think, before doing much of anything else. One is pinning down the time zone and any applicable offsets. I think that's been answered, thanks to the internet, and it seems to be very simply GMT. Another matter is the location - pinning it down if possible, and/or figuring out how much difference a number of miles makes.

Anyway, I don't know why you think you should back off. I mean, if Liss doesn't want to pursue this, she can say so, and then we'll all stop fiddling with it...
 

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