What's My Line?

rosada · Apr 25, 2015

See if you can connect a Judgement, image or line with the following proverbs:

A)
Birds of a feather flock together.

B)
Stop, look and listen.

C)
it takes one to know one.

Post some proverbs of your own for us to play with.

canislulu · Apr 25, 2015

I'll risk some "first thing that comes to mind" responses:

A) 8,30, 37
61.2

B) 52, 20, 57

C) 37

sooo · Apr 25, 2015

What's my line, a 50's b&w US TV show. Rosada, you weren't born yet, were you?

A)
Birds of a feather flock together.

53 Many feathers make for light flight.
Taken from "Many hands make light work.": This proverb was first recorded in English in the early 1300s in a knightly romance known as Sir Bevis of Hampton . It appeared in practically all proverb collections from 1546 on.

8 On the earth is water:
The image of HOLDING TOGETHER.
Thus the kings of antiquity
Bestowed the different states as fiefs
And cultivated friendly relations
With the feudal lords.

Keep it together.

B)
Stop, look and listen.

Everybody, stop! Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look what's goin' down. - Steven Stills

20 The wind blows over the earth:
The image of CONTEMPLATION.
Thus the kings of old visited the regions of the world,
Contemplated the people,
And gave them instruction.

C)
it takes one to know one.

61 INNER TRUTH. Pigs and fishes.
Good fortune.

Emptiness permits fullness.

Creative is as creative does.

"Fill the belly; empty the mind."

rosada · Apr 26, 2015

Oh my goodness - these bring a lot of thoughts to work with!

Rather than thinking about things too much I decided to pick a phrase and ask the I Ching what would be a suitable IC equivalent.

I chose Bruce's "Fill the belly, empty the mind" expression and got 10.4.6 - 60.
"Treading on the tail of the tiger. He does not BITE the man." changing to "Limitation." Seems to be saying the same thing in reverse, that is, if one would like to keep their wits (10.4 Auuugh, please don't eat me!) one ought to limit their indulgences.

Okay, more on those other phrases later.

Meanwhile I wonder if this whole game is better played in reverse, that is, if we state the I Ching version first can we come up with a wise saying or proverb from another source?

What's a common expression used for saying:

1.1 Hidden dragon, do not act.

I was thinking "Stop. look and listen". Any other suggestions?

Oh and about What's My Line? Although I was a but a wee babe when that program was popular I remember it well. My sister's nickname was Polly and mine was Kitty and even if we were too young to understand it, we loved the show because we assumed our Mother had named us after the frequent panelists Polly Bergen and Kitty Carlyle. Actually my sister, an Aries, assumed they had been named after us...

sooo · Apr 26, 2015

Wow. Maybe it was the masks that made an impression on the young Polly or Kitty. Great memory nonetheless.

Since "Fill the belly; empty the mind" is in quotes, its origin, or for those literal professors, the paraphrase can be Googled, but won't be found in the I Ching but in the Tao te Ching.

I don't think this is a very playful group though. I think that's what your reading implies. Maybe you're right and I should have kept it simple.

canislulu · Apr 27, 2015

interesting. I never would have guessed that "Fill the belly; empty the mind" originated in the Tao te Ching.

One can learn something everyday.

How about a judgement, image, line, or hexagram for:
"Put your money where your mouth is."

sooo · Apr 28, 2015

It depends on the translation. Legge's doesn't seem to have it interpreted in those words. Indiana University, Early Chinese Thought [B/E/P374] translates it in chapter one. The DdJ speaks a great deal on emptiness. Fill the belly doesn't refer to gluttony only to care for the body's essentials and not indulge in mental gymnastics or even to imagine you can rationalize the Dao.

Hence the
governance
of the sage:
Empty their minds
and fill their bellies,
Weaken their wills and strengthen their bones.
Always render the people free of knowledge and desire.
Ensure that the
clever do not dare to act.

Engage in non action (wuwei)
and nothing will go unruled.

hmm, money (gain-42) and mouth (nourishment-27); how about 42.5-27?

butterfly spider · Apr 28, 2015

Just what I needed - light relief...
First thing springs to mind:

Never put off to tomorrow what you can do today :
Hex 63

But then again I might just decide to have another cup of coffee
X

sooo · Apr 28, 2015

jumpingmouse said:
How about a judgement, image, line, or hexagram for:
"Put your money where your mouth is."

I missed the most obvious one: 37

THE IMAGE
Wind comes forth from fire:
The image of THE FAMILY.Thus the superior man has substance in his words
And duration in his way of life.

General discourses and admonitions have no effect whatsoever. Furthermore, the words must be supported by one's entire conduct, just as the wind is made effective by an impression on others that they can adapt and conform to it. If words and conduct are not in accord and consistent, they will have no effect.

moss elk · Apr 29, 2015

jumpingmouse said:
How about a judgement, image, line, or hexagram for:
"Put your money where your mouth is."

47

canislulu · Apr 29, 2015

Yes, "47" is the hexagram which I call "putting your money where your mouth is..."

Now I am also seeing that phrase in 42.5 < 27 and 37 !

And I am thinking "Actions speak louder than words" also works for 47, though I have seen a reading where 47.5 < 40 was indicating to a person that he needed to speak to someone... that the fifth line was the place of communication. And I note that 37 is the nuclear hexagram of 47 --- so as sooo says:

If words and conduct are not in accord and consistent, they will have no effect.

sooo · Apr 29, 2015

Moss Elk said:
47

Would you please elaborate on this? I'm not catching the connection.

Jumpingmouse, your input too is welcomed.

Could you sight something from the text or even commentary to demonstrate?

canislulu · Apr 30, 2015

From Wikiwing on 47:

ORACLE
'Confined, creating success.
Constancy of a great person, good fortune.
Not a mistake.
There are words, no trust.

And then there was a commentary that said something about actions being needed because words could not be trusted. It was sometime ago when I cast 47 and I do not remember which commentary gave me this sense and I cannot seem to find it now.

I was surprised when Moss Elk said "47" and look forward to hearing her perspective. 37 seems more clear.

sooo · Apr 30, 2015

Ah, thank you, Jumpingmouse!

sooo · Apr 30, 2015

My perspective is that about 97% of h47 comes from within ourselves, as demonstrated by its change lines, and from my own experience. I usually receive it when I'm feeling sorry for myself or feeling unfairly victimized. There are those rare times when it's just plain physical exhaustion, and once in awhile I am not believed in a way that feels oppressive. But the great majority of time it's plain ole self pity. My own inner wisdom is not believed, or it could be said my great man is not believed. In those cases, it's up to me to put my belief where I claim it is, similarly to 37, in that respect.

...as soon as he grasps the situation, changes this mental attitude, and makes a firm decision, he masters the oppression. 47.6

The need for the firm decision comes from the relating 6, which is at the root of oppression; a rather dried up root at that.

rosada · Apr 30, 2015

Hello -

Yeah, I think we need to write the actual words of the I Ching along with the number to make it clear what we're referring to.

The image for 47 reads, "Thus the superior man stakes his life on following his will." That echoes Put your money where your mouth is, I think.

I've been mulling over how 10.4.6 - 60 could be seen as meaning "Full belly, empty mind."
10 The superior man discriminates between high and low and thereby fortifies the THINKING of the people.
So 10 has something to say about how thinking is to be nourished, fortified.

10.4
He treads on the tail of the tiger.
Caution and introspection
Lead ultimately to good fortune.

So when one needs something they become courageous, look within for guidance - meaning they think about it? - and ultimately this daring leading to thinking leads to good fortune.

So perhaps it could be deduced from this line that hardship - hunger - causes one to become alert that they may get the sustenance they need.

10.6 Seems to describe the "full belly":

Look to your conduct and weigh the favorable signs.
When everything is fulfilled, supreme good fortune comes.

Taken together these lines say to me that one is courageous when they are hungry but then when they are fulfilled it can lead to 60.Limitation, that is, not trying to achieve anything more. Dreams limited to just a full belly and thus limits desires, and goals and thinking how to achieve them.

Whew, well just wanted to twist some meaning out of that reading!
Onward!

sooo · Apr 30, 2015

I associate with 47 more term "whoa is me," or as Linda Ronstadt sang, "Poor, poor pitiful me." (no one believes me

).

And the old song "The lion sleeps tonight" reminds me of 10. It does not bite the man. Caution and circumspection is wise.

moss elk · Apr 30, 2015

*

sooo said:
Would you please elaborate on this? I'm not catching the connection. Jumpingmouse, your input too is welcomed. Could you sight something from the text or even commentary to demonstrate?

Heya sooo,

47 sprang to mind for me because:

Whilhelm,* "Thus the superior man stakes his life on following his will."

Action is a real investment (because of inherent risk) ... 'I'm all in, my life, limb, wallet"

And
...Words wont be believed.
Or paraphrasing Bradford, "words are not the same as conviction."

Talk and thoughts are cheap,
Action has real value here.

Oops, looks like jumpingmouse already elaborated.

rosada · Apr 30, 2015

How about "Time flies when you are having fun"?

===
aside to Bruce: Yes, the masks! Wow, if product marketing were as advance then as now they would have sold more than Mickey Mouse ears!

sooo · Apr 30, 2015

rosada said:
aside to Bruce: Yes, the masks! Wow, if product marketing were as advance then as now they would have sold more than Mickey Mouse ears!

Yes, not very imaginative is it.

sooo · Apr 30, 2015

h36, I reckon?

rosada · May 2, 2015

Couldn't figure out what you were referring to, then oh, of course 36. Darkening of the Light was meant for the masks of course!

I was trying to see how 36 went with my phrase "Time flies when you're having fun." I just couldn't see any connection - and then of course, duh, you hadn't intended one. But that's interesting cause I tend to believe that any hexagram will eventually make sense as an answer if we let it mellow for a bit yet I just couldn't see how 36 could mean "Time flies" - so that's kind of neat proof for me that the Universe really does send us answers, that it's not just a random game.

So what about Time flies when you're having fun? I don't have any particular hexagram in mind for it. I just now checked 58. The Joyous. Hmm..the image might work "The superior man joins with his friends for discussion and practice" but the individual lines tend to reflect a negative opinion of losing oneself in the moment!

58.1 "Contented joyousness. Good fortune" seems like a good candidate for "Don't worry - Be happy."

Forgive me for posting an old joke:
"Times fun when you're having flies." - Kermit the frog.

rosada · May 2, 2015

How about we try coming up with a modern phrase for the titles of the hexagrams?

1. Be all that you can be!
2. Silence gives consent.
25. Beginner's Luck
and so forth..

sooo · May 2, 2015

rosada said:
How about we try coming up with a modern phrase for the titles of the hexagrams?

1. Be all that you can be!

For me that has to be 7, since it was the US Army's slogan for decades. I'm aware of the standing army vs militia argument, more like an army reserve, going back to beating their swords into plows when not defending their land.

Looks like they've dropped the word "that".

rosada · May 4, 2015

Yeah, even though I think the phrase is more suitable for hex 1 it's impossible to separate it from the army slogan.

I'm gonna be away from the game for a while. Just got the call Dad (97) has been put in hospice care so we're off to be with him. My I Ching for the week - just before getting the call - was 37.6 Family leading to 63. Completion.

63. "When it's over, it's over."

sigh.

sooo · May 4, 2015

I'm sorry, Rosada. May peace go with you.

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