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Blog post: You vs Yi? What if the reading feels wrong?

hilary

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It’s not uncommon to have the experience of a*reading confirming what you already know – even if you hadn’t*quite acknowledged that you knew it.
But what when the reading simply goes against what you feel is right? You’re drawn to do something, you’re excited about doing it, your intention’s taking shape… and you ask Yi, and get some unspeakably negative answer. Or – this*happened to me a few days ago and got me thinking about this – you particularly don’t want to have to do something, it feels all wrong, but Yi is unmistakably telling you it’s the right thing to do.

So I have a couple of questions about this. First, what’s happening? It’s quite normal for readings to confirm our deep knowing, and thoroughly disconcerting when they go against it.*(Or maybe only appear to go against it?)
And second, how to respond? Of course, what we quite often do is to ignore the reading and do what we wanted anyway. We might come up with reasons why this reading doesn’t quite count, or doesn’t quite mean what it says, or quietly ‘forget’ it.
This may surprise you, but I actually feel*that this is*a good thing. We don’t, after all, consult with Yi so it can tell us what to do. It’s more… so*we can be changed – become more aligned with deep reality, live more fluently, something like that. And going against a reading and getting into a nasty situation as a result (can we have a show of hands for people who’ve done that?) has to be part of the experience. It means you’re living your own life.
On the other hand, of course, this does seem perverse – not to mention disrespectful. We also don’t consult Yi so it can encourage us in our own convictions and make us feel better about doing what we planned on doing anyway – at least, I hope I don’t…
But wait.
What actually draws us to consult – why do readings happen at all? I think if you scratch the surface of the*intention of a reading, you find a desire.*Not necessarily a desire for a particular answer or outcome – though there’s always that, too – but a need*to be answered. We want to feel*held inside the container of conversation with the oracle – and we want to be encouraged and blessed in our ventures, to*experience alignment and harmony, and to know we belong where we are. Somewhere under the surface of ‘Tell me what I want to hear!’ is a deep hunger for spiritual nourishment. It’s that hunger that pulls the whole reading experience into being: it*impels you to ask, and draws the Yi to answer.
Now, that might sound*as though the oracle were*basically inert, until human desire starts things moving.*But I think we know from experience that this isn’t really what happens.*I quite often find a*desire or*call*to consult simply ‘arising’ in me, apparently out of nowhere.*I respond to the call, and cast a reading*– and who can say what started this moving? Not I.
A reading is an upwelling of awareness and presence. You can experience that as the potent, benevolent*presence of the oracle speaking to you – something that*never gets less breathtaking*– and as the growth*of your own*insight and understanding, carried on the same rising tide of presence.
A conversation I quite often have with beginners*goes something like this,
Beginner: ‘When I read what it says, I get this really strong, clear feeling it’s saying this*– but I’m not very good at readings, so perhaps I’m getting it wrong, so I’ve asked on the forum and read sixteen different commentaries, and the I Ching is really confusing…’
Me: ‘That really strong, clear feeling? That’s your*reading happening.’
In that situation, when your understanding*rises to meet and meld with the answer,*it’s*relatively easy to see that the*whole ‘you vs Yi’ thing is an illusion: there’s just one emergent awareness. But what when Yi says one thing and your inner self says something completely different?
First, I think you need to recognise that a reading is still happening. Your hunger for connection is still active, still drawing out a*single rising awareness and presence. It’s just that this awareness has layers*– and they’re*a long way apart, not quite ‘talking to one another’ yet.
So instead of the kneejerk response (well, my kneejerk response) of finding ways to distance yourself from the reading, you need to get*more present to the whole process – to think about what you’re asking, and why, and what*you really sought from the answer.
Bottom line: the answer may feel completely wrong, but it isn’t. The answer*may feel alienating, but in fact you have connected with the oracle and you have an answer from Yi*–*of course this is a blessing; what else could it possibly be? You don’t have to understand or agree with what it says for that to be true. Maybe ask – *what if this answer were kind and benevolent – how could that be?
All of which, you know, doesn’t mean you have to ‘obey’ the reading. I actually asked Yi what it would mean to go against such a reading, and received 28.2.3 to 45. We’d*be stepping outside the embrace of the ‘reading container’, acting absolutely independently, investing everything in living out our own story. And this means both living to the full*– because we’re connecting with our own rejuvenated will and desire, which might just be revitalised*by having a reading go*against it so clearly – and also complete isolation and bringing the roof crashing down on our own heads. Which shouldn’t, on the whole, be a surprise.


(As you may have guessed, there’s another reading behind this post –*that’s how it can go*from initial bafflement to such emphatic confidence.*Here’s the question I asked:
When an answer goes against instinct, or desire, or what we ‘know’, what then? What would be a good guideline for responding to such readings?
I think I’ll update this post later with the answer I received. Perhaps you can*guess it?)

Update: the reading is in post 32 of this thread.
 
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B

butterfly spider

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In my limited experience whenever the reading had been so different from my own sense - when the casting is so spurious that I either think - its got it wrong - or, come on? What are you talking about - you can't be meaning this? there is something I am missing - some part of the jigsaw that I have mislaid almost. Something almost always has been hidden. Sometimes it has been me who has hoped the lurking parrot would fly away ...

An example: from about 1979

I had been going out with someone for a few years - we got on quite well and when you are 20 you think that this person is the most important in your life - except I didn't .. I was making plans... He was so lovely ...
Someone at college gave me an I Ching book. . I remember doing the casting now - in the smelly student kitchen ...

Will we be together forever? knew that we wouldn't be actually ...even though I loved him to bits.

I got 40.1 - freeing himself in marriage is usually successful and easily done ...freeing himself in marriage is a natural path that he will be taking eventually.

Marriage? So the I Ching is saying that I will indeed marry this man. That 'marriage' would be a good idea? This sounded serious yet I knew in my heart that this was not going to happen. What was I missing here?

My life was quite suffocating at home and this person had freed me from having to stay with my Mother and Brother -...it enabled me to move on and start my own life away from home. I did meet someone who I married (albeit unsuccessfully) a couple of years later. But this first real boyfriend had broken the strong chains to my childhood home.

This is what I had really wanted aged 20 - to move on and leave my Mum ...
Getting free was not marrying this man at all. That would have been altogether something unnecessary.

X
 
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Pearlescent

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I had an experience once along these lines, (I also find the 28.2.3 reading to be quite helpful, BTW). Interestingly, the most notable experience with getting a reading I didn't want and couldn't believe, as about a new friend I'd made who I was refreshingly able to discuss at length many things we were both interested in. I felt nothing but positive and hopeful about this person, and when I asked the Yi it strongly suggested I retreat and go no further. Unable to accept the advice, I did continue to talk to this guy until one day he treated me, very awkwardly, you could say, because he didn't want to talk to me anymore now that he had a new girlfriend, which he said himself in so many words. Ive been in a faithful relationship with my boyfriend for many years now so that was never on my mind and his new attitude came as unpleasant surprise. From then on I've been much more opened minded about the answers I recieve, whether I like them or not...
 

hilary

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(As you may have guessed, there’s another reading behind this post –*that’s how it can go*from initial bafflement to such emphatic confidence.*Here’s the question I asked:
When an answer goes against instinct, or desire, or what we ‘know’, what then? What would be a good guideline for responding to such readings?
I think I’ll update this post later with the answer I received. Perhaps you can guess it?)

No takers?
 

Liselle

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OOPS - with all the other fun stuff going on around here (shiny new Resonance Journal to play with...Jack and his beans...) I completely forgot about this little challenge!

Um...I don't have anything that feels like a "good" guess. 5, maybe - wait to see what develops? 57, Penetrating? 4, Not Knowing/Learning - be content for now with not knowing? If a reading seems "wrong," maybe it's just because there are things we don't know yet, something like that.

(I think it's almost certainly an unchanging hexagram, or a casting with only one moving line. Otherwise I doubt you'd ask us to guess.)


Okay. Am depositing "hexagram 4" as my official guess. :D
 

Tim K

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I agree with Lisa, something along the lines of accept and trust it, try to understand.
I'll give H2 or H30.
 

hilary

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Most of the post is just interpretation of the reading, managing - more or less - not to mention the actual hexagrams. Er... some subtle excerpting...

Starting with the relating hexagram, as I often do...
... you find a desire. ...held inside the container of conversation with the oracle… to experience alignment and harmony... ...a deep hunger for spiritual nourishment. It’s that hunger that pulls the whole reading experience into being: it impels you to ask, and draws the Yi to answer.

Primary hexagram with hints of moving lines
...a desire or call to consult simply ‘arising’ in me, apparently out of nowhere.

...the potent, benevolent presence of the oracle speaking to you – ...the growth of your own insight and understanding, carried on the same rising tide of presence.
Relating hexagram and primary hexagram:
...Your hunger for connection is still active, still drawing out a single rising awareness and presence.
...and a general hint about the moving lines...
It’s just that this awareness has layers*– and they’re a long way apart, not quite ‘talking to one another’ yet.
- primary
...get more present to the whole process
Almost quoting the relating...
to think about what you’re asking, and why, and what you really sought from the answer.
The omens in the moving lines...
Bottom line: the answer may feel completely wrong, but it isn’t. The answer may feel alienating, but in fact you have connected with the oracle and you have an answer from Yi*–*of course this is a blessing; what else could it possibly be?


Does this help? ;)
 

Liselle

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Am still thinking; bear with us...

This is fun! Hard, but fun :D
 

hilary

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I have an email from someone guessing 33.1.3.5 to 21. 21 is not far off at all - I think perhaps people underestimate how crashingly literal I am. 33, though??

(P.S. After this, someone must do the same to me, see how I get on. I'm starting to think it might be like that experiment that reveals the 'curse of knowledge'. Half the subjects are asked to think of a tune and tap out its rhythm to communicate the tune to the other half, who are supposed to guess what it is. This is a ridiculously hard task - try distinguishing 'Happy Birthday' from 'The Star-Spangled Banner', for instance - and they can't do it. The revealing part of the test is that the people doing the rhythm-tapping are perfectly convinced that it's easy and the answer is obvious. They have the tune in their head, and can't imagine what the tapping sounds like to someone who doesn't already have the tune in their head. )
 
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Liselle

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Not quite sure if that's a "hint" or a "spoiler"... :lalala:

Believe it or not, I'd never heard of that "tapping" experiment. Good point.
 

Liselle

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Just emailed you a guess...

Phew. Right or wrong, need a nap now, lol. This was fun!
 

canislulu

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Hmmm. Don't have a guess yet but my initial thoughts started with thinking that the relating hexagram might be 27. And then I thought of 27.1, 43.4, and 21.6. I'll put these thoughts in the soup and let them cook a while. And now I am wondering ---- 21.1.6 > 16 ? Still cooking....
 

canislulu

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Yi gave me a different answer than Hilary. Yi told me 46.2.3 > 2
 
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Tim K

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My guess is 8 - 27, and if not then 45-27. Connection and hunger (relating hex is definitely 27, thanks for the hints, Hilary :) )
 

Liselle

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Yi gave me a different answer than Hilary. Yi told me 46.2.3 > 2

I'm not sure what you mean, Jumpingmouse... we don't know what Hilary's answer (reading) was; she hasn't told us yet. That's what we're supposed to try figuring out.
 
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Liselle

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Mine is 61.2.4.5 > 21.

I realize Hilary said 21 "is not far off" vs. "is correct"...decided not to heed that, I suppose :eek:uch:. 27 relating would be my alternate guess (61.2.5 > 27).

We've all been doing a lot of thinking, which is good regardless!
 

canislulu

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Lisa, what I mean is that when I put the question
When an answer goes against instinct, or desire, or what we ‘know’, what then? What would be a good guideline for responding to such readings?
into the online casting tool I received 46.2.3 > 2 (there is an error in my previous post) and Hilary's hint about the answer Yi gave her don't sound like "Ascending's Openness" to me.

Someone here told me that sometimes he and his daughter will ask the same question independently and receive the same answer. So I did an experiment to see if Yi would give me the same answer as Yi gave Hilary.

"Sometimes answer same. Sometimes answer different."
 

Liselle

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Our guesses have things in common, Jumpingmouse! :D
 

hilary

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It's really tricky to know how to respond to this!

OK - yes, the relating hexagram is 27. No-one has got the primary hexagram yet. I can completely see why several people have said 61 - my description does sound a bit like 61, but it wasn't meant to...
 

Liselle

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Hmmmmmmmmm...back to drawing board :D...it's 9 a.m. here; bear with...
 

Tim K

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My first thought was 4 - 50, because of 'container' and 'spiritual' reference, but then the 'hunger' part swayed me to 27.

So I think the reading was 4.1.2 - 27, with 4.2 saying 'you are not there yet'. And I chose H4 because of 'hunger' to 'learn', because the wish to make a cast just appears within you. 'The fool seeks me'.
 

Liselle

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16.1.4.6 > 27?

16.1
‘Enthusiasm calling out,
Pitfall.’

16.4
‘Source of enthusiasm.
Great possessions gained.
Do not doubt.
Partners are gathered together as a hair clasp gathers hair.’

16.6
‘Enthusiasm in the dark.
Results bring a change of heart,
No mistake.’


This sort of sounds like 16 to me:

"...the growth of your own insight and understanding, carried on the same rising tide of presence."

Enthusiasm does sort of come from "nowhere" (who knows what sparks our enthusiasms, or why) --

"...a desire or call to consult simply ‘arising’ in me, apparently out of nowhere."


The lines in this casting are separated from each other, and

""Bottom line: the answer may feel completely wrong, but it isn’t."

"The answer may feel alienating..."

-- could be the omens from lines 1 and 6 ("pitfall" and "no mistake" respectively). Plus line 6's "in the dark" could feel "alienating."

This could be line 4:

"...in fact you have connected with the oracle and you have an answer from Yi – of course this is a blessing; what else could it possibly be?"

The "do not doubt" in 16.4 seems very appropriate - when you have an answer that feels all wrong, remember it's from Yi, and do not doubt it.

And from 16.6 - "results bring a change of heart" - when it's proven to you in tangible ways, you'll know Yi was right all along.
 

canislulu

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H 51.4.6 > 27 ?

Something about "awareness that arises out of no where" brought up 51 for me. And it speaks a bit to a recent experience I had in asking a question and being surprised by an answer. I had plans for Tuesday evening. For some reason I decided to ask about those plans. A part of me thought, "Don't ask. You know it is the right thing to do." And then I received H 56.6. After trying to talk myself into a way of interpreting the line to keep my plans I decided it was best to change them. It was something I really wanted to do but I had more important "fish to fry" that evening. And here it is Friday and I've been spending so much time on the recipe I haven't even fired up the stove yet.

51.4.6 > 27 ---- Digest the Shock
 

canislulu

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Runner up guesses ----- 41.2 > 27 and 42.5 > 27
 

hilary

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This is all thoroughly edifying for me, as it goes to show that I didn't describe primary hexagram [x] half as clearly as I thought I did. To mentions of 'rising presence' and 'tide of awareness' and 'benevolent spirit presence' I should perhaps have added that it would be better not to want or need immediate results from it, that the point is that it grows, not that you get something. (I suppose it's a lifelong process, or possibly several lives-long…)

Or I could just stop waffling and tell you what the reading was?
 

Liselle

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53.1.3.5 > 27? (Image: ‘On the mountain is a tree.') Listing this first because 53 seems more like "takes a very very very long time" than 46 does. Also the lines are spaced farther apart.

46.1.2.3.6 > 27? (Image: ‘Centre of the earth gives birth to wood.') But, 6 is far removed from the other three...

But both seem to have something to do with "growing." (Maybe.)

(I don't think guesses really "count" anymore...am just throwing things against the wall in case something sticks, ha ha.)

Regardless - this was fun! And I feel like I learned something just by thinking about it so much.

Yes, I at least am in favor of you just telling us now...:D
 

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