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The two last hexagrams

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svenrus

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Chi Chi: Sunrise. Inner trigram: Li. The sun

Wei Chi: Sunset. Inner trigram: K'an. The Moon

The Sun crossing the ocean of the Sky

The Moon crossing the ocean of the Sky


Thoughts about The early heaven Order or Fuxi diagram....
 
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svenrus

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Impressive, dear mr/mss Sixth Relative, is actually what the impression was led out of, namely the Fuxi diagram (Early heavens Order) where Li stands in the East and K'an in the West. Taking Ch'ien in the South for standing in Zenit and K'un in the North for standing in Nadir You got the picture (Impression).
 
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thisismybody

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Hi svenrus,

Great thoughts. You led me to create a diagram based on the directions. Thank you!

The zenith is actually the heavenly point, as in Ch'ien. The nadir is for K'un.
 
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In the Southkorean flag they only got four of the eight trigrams. Whether they see it as Heaven - Earth - Sunrise and Sunset too, I don't know.....
 

thisismybody

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In alchemy, the hieros gamos, the sacred marriage of the Sun and moon, is where king and queen, male and female, heaven and earth mate, as in hexagram 11. This "marriage" is symbolized by the sunrise and leads to the final stage, which is rubedo. 63 represents this as well. According to w/b, the 63 is "transition from T'ai to P'i." Peace (11) to Standstill (12). 63 and 64 are connected to 1 and 2.

K'an is a dimension of K'un, and Li is a dimension of Ch'ien. And the four trigrams work perfectly, because in my mind they are primary--from which all is created. (I had to look the Korean flag up just now. But, I created my diagram from those same four before I looked it up because they are primary.) It makes perfect sense. Fire comes from heaven, as in let there be light, among many other ideas. Water comes from earth. It's another dichotomy of masculine/feminine, Yin/yang, Sun/moon. Water exists in the earth. Fire in the heavens. If you were to draw a circle and place them according to direction, you could birth all the other hexagrams from these. Anyway, your idea was awesome. It was really inspiring. I drew an entire diagram because of it. Sunrise and sunset fit. But, the earth belongs below in the south, just as the earth makes up lower two lines, man is the middle, and heaven is above. Heaven is always above. Celestial objects belong above. That's the zenith. The rest fits. Thanks for sharing. :)
 
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svenrus

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When You write that Earth belongs below in the south You are right - I took it strictly from the Fuxi diagram where Ch'ien is in the south. It's a bit tricky here: for those living north of the equator the Zenith (were the sun culminates) is due South and for those living south of the equator the zenith occures due North...
As for the compass-direction and the ancient chinese here is an interesting article:

"Quite a host of writers in early times as well as of late claim that the Chinese were the first who had knowledge of magnetism. The claim goes even to the extent that the Chinese applied, over 4,500 years ago, a magnetized needle as a compass to guide their land chariots across the vast steppes leading south. "To them the south was more important than the north, by reason that where the sun stood highest there was the life-giving centre" 1)

1) https://archive.org/details/TheYellowEmperorsSouth-pointingChariot
 
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canislulu

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[video=youtube;03rzUoyq9K0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03rzUoyq9K0[/video]
 

thisismybody

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Characteristics of K'un and Ch'ien

Awesome.
"a magnetized needle as a compass to guide their land chariots across the vast steppes leading south. 'To them the south was more important than the north, by reason that where the sun stood highest there was the life-giving centre'"

The zenith. That's beautiful. Ch'ien as their life-giving center.

I've written in another thread about 2 unchanging that K'un is that inner compass. She is also a physical compass as we use the actual earth and her land markers to direct and guide us. She's also her own magnetic compass. The reason we can use a magnetic compass is because of her magnetism, her north and south poles. There also exist electromagnetic grids around the earth that carries the resononance of everything on the earth. Rupert Sheldrake calls this the morphogenetic field or morphic field, if I remember correctly. Earth, or K'un, carries life. Out of the darkness of her womb comes life. Light filled the void as if inseminating her. You know, it's like we are living compasses grounding down and into her field. Hilary blogged about this "resonance." I wonder how much our ability to ground our energy into the earth allows us to receive Ch'ien, the sounds of the spheres, the will of heaven, or hear it's language, like a radio receiver. Which now we're into radios and again electromagnetic frequencies!
Radio waves are generated by radio transmitters and received by radio receivers. Different frequencies of radio waves have different propagation characteristics in the Earth's atmosphere... (Wikipedia)

The (radio) transmitter, the earth, as capable of harnessing aspects of divine energy, "radio waves," and "sending" it to be "received" or grounded by a (radio) receiver, again the earth, our bodies. (With that thought, hexagrams truly are a perfect symbolic representation of man as intermediary between heaven and earth in the lines. Just beautiful!)

It makes sense to me they regarded the south as more important so as to be in correct relation to the sun. We grow upward, just as trees do, fighting gravity, which grounds us to the earth. We both have roots and branches. All life seems to orient towards Ch'ien, physically and spiritually. Such a word as "aspiration" comes to mind, which is of the spirit. It strives upward like Ch'ien. But the soul does not. It strives downward, burying itself in the details of life, in its memories and compulsions. Like K'un. The only reason I figure hexagram 2 is over 1 in T'ai is because the strong carries the weak in order to give birth. They must come together as we do in the human and animal sphere. But there could be more to this. The word "inversion" comes to mind. The generating principle of creation must somehow need to return to itself, since the monad that goes outside itself to create the polygoniv universe in sacred geometry must somehow need to return after the creation to maybe be complete. Maybe it simultaneously travels in the different directions?

Based on hexagram 11, it seems K'un would be in the north and Ch'ien in the south. But, in hexagram 8 and 45, K'un is below grounding down her energy and allowing the energies "rest" in her, which provide the correct sphere for human relations. It's no coincidence that K'an (water) and Tui (lake) rest on her.

Other trigrams or elements that are in correct relation to the human sphere is 63 and 64. Respectively, the sunrise in the west and the sunset in the east. Hmm. Much to ponder.

I'm going to think on this. I'll look at my diagrams. The only thing I'm sensing might make for this inconsistency of hexagram 11 is that of symbolism and reality. That of the human realm and the realm that form came from and gave rise to the human world. And that perhaps he king and queen, sun and moon, must give up their strong positions, their niches, and become intimate in order to unite. And of course, K'un's energy moves downward and Ch'ien's moves upward. Sacred geometry may help here. I'm going to try to reconcile this...

The hexes to focus on are, 1, 2, (29), (30), 63, 64, 11 & 12. (The next, not sure of order just yet, would be 61, 62, 27 & 28. Then 16, 24, 26 & 33. Then 38, 48, 49 & 59.)

Svenrus, I know nothing about you, but you are my muse! Just like any other heavenly creature that whispers in our ears! Thank you again. And thank you all for allowing me to share my passion and develop my ideas and to get your feedback. Being able to verbalize my thoughts on this forum is helping me understand the Yi in a way I hadn't before. It's helped me beyond mere interpretations of readings to life problems and questions. :hug:
 
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svenrus

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"..................Other trigrams or elements that are in correct relation to the human sphere is 63 and 64. Respectively, the sunrise in the west and the sunset in the east. Hmm. Much to ponder. --- "

??? I guess this is typingerror ???

Well thank You for this inspiring point of wiev ! I assume You allready had met this:

http://www.yjcn.nl/wp/the-picture-that-covers-heaven-and-earth/#comment-2184 ??

I find it being a led toward a greater pattern.

And I agree with You that, in case hex. 11 & 12 were taken into consideration hex. 11 should be South-orientated ie Ch'ien underneath/K'un above.

I must confess that I stopped at Li (east) and K'an (west) doupling those giving Chi chi and Wei Chi... I have been lookin at Ch'ien and K'un merely being "out of this system" ie. my focus was on the two last hexagrams.
 

thisismybody

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Yes, I'm sorry! The sun rises in the EAST and sets in the WEST! Damn! Typing way too fast. In fact, I almost put "Easy," instead of West.
 
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svenrus

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Just to be sure. In this (1) bamboostrips Li and K'an is actually reversed, so one could take it as the other way round.... (Well, it's in the later-heaven-order or king Wen-arrangement but tricky anyway)

1) Page 23, 24 Here: http://www.dpedtech.com/GameChangerA.pdf It's a link Charly recently gave in this thread


AND the same bamboostrips has been mentioned in THIS thread recently....
 
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thisismybody

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I've actually seen that Li and Kan are reversed. Still doesn't make sense to me...
 
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I've actually seen that Li and Kan are reversed. Still doesn't make sense to me...
It doesn't make sense to me neither. All in all I find "the original" order ie. Fu Hsi/Earlier Heavensystem the most logic. I guess that king Wen must have had this system in mind when he made his king Wen-system....
I find the symmetry in Fu Hsi's system more likely to my Western kind of sense.
 

thisismybody

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Hey Svenrus,

Thanks for the image. I'd flip it around and reverse the hours. I saw this last week and created a base diagram with adobe. I have a more detailed drawing. I'm having trouble uploading it. I keep getting an exclamation point. Do you have any ideas why that could be?
 
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svenrus

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Updating: PDF

Hopefully regulary, a forthgoing project if all turns out well..... (?)


I'll appreciate notes about possible faillure in my project, wrong numberings etc.
 
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svenrus

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It has been necessary for me to change the name of the html to PDF

Sorry for that, Charly and Tohpol !

(The reason is that as I update it regulary and got it uploaded two places it is quicker and easier to upload it one time in the same name: /navtrigram24hourarrangement.pdf)
 
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svenrus

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The PDF file has been updated, and hopefully continued untill either the goal or a satisfying conclusion has been reached.
 
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svenrus

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he.jpg

The puzzle can begin. Nearly getting headache of imaginating the orders out from the schemes been made on the computerscreen, I made a layout of the 64 hexagrams, bought a laminator, made a print, grasped a pair of scissors - and now I'm hopefully better helped....
 
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svenrus

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I somehow feel a bit stupid I must confess, being that close and yet so far away from a conclusion... (Update)
 
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svenrus

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..... and more badly: I've started diving into some books I recently lended reading those getting seriously in doubt as to which schemes and diagrams is formed by whom ie Shao Yung, Fu Hsi etc.
Moreover, the cross-mingling between the arrangement of the hexagrams in their monthly order will never follow "my logic" as RitualNumber 6 for "coldest" and RN 9 for "hottest" because RN 6 then should have been followed by RN 8; and it's actually followed by RN 7. I just recently got aware of that and shaking my head HOW I could have overseen that for such a long time. Anyway, the theme is that interesting I will continue for a while....
 
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svenrus

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Waiting for material necessary to continue I'd a break for quite a long time now.

Apologize for that !

The task ie. my project "In search for a Chronology in the evolution of the sixty four hexagrams" I'd involved myself into showed up to be much more comprehensive than I've imagined.
The material I'm waiting for should arrive in the end of this month, but if it's sended from US despite I ordered it from the UK it'll probaply take longer. So, if anyone follow my project please give time....


:)
 
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svenrus

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Another Biography.....

The material I mentioned waiting for I received yesterday just to find that it was just another biography; a biography of Shao Yong. I'd expected this book* being a deeper insight unto Shao Yong's work on what could be called "the timely numerology" of the book of changes or a more comprehensive representation of what I know that he worked on, namely the structure of the 64 hexagrams in relation to Time. Anyway, I found in the bibliography at the end of the book a link to a book** which I've decided to order from the library. Hopefully this time being able to find the information needed to go on with my search mentioned above (posting #29)

* The recluse of Loyang, Don J. Wyatt, University of Hawaii's Press, USA 1996.
** Sung Dynasty uses of the I Ching, Kidder Smith, Princeton University Press, 1990
 
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