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dobro p

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How do you read 'foxes' in the Yi? When 40.2 talks about catching foxes in the field, for instance, do you read that as:

* getting what you were trying to get

* apprehending a miscreant

* something else

I read it as 'getting what you were trying to get'. I read 'in the field' as a hunting situation, where you're out to bag something. If it were 'in the farmyard' or 'in the chickencoop', I would read it as 'apprehending a miscreant'. But it doesn't say that. It says 'field'.

What's your take on it?
 

ewald

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In 40.2 the foxes symbolize trickery and deception, taking them out thus makes things clear and clears the way.

There's also a fox in 64.0.
 

willowfox

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The 3 foxes of line 40.2 hinder and obstruct one's progress to overcoming personal problems by filling one's mind with negative emotions and giving the wrong assessment of one's surrounding world.
On an external level, they represent crafty people who bring trouble into one's life by using deception and trickery to mislead one. Look to the government for examples of this type of person.
 

dobro p

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Thanks for the input, you two.

Karcher's Total I Ching seems to bear out your reading::

"There are forces that seem to be threatening you, but you catch them in the act and acquire their power."

Wilhelm seems to move along similar lines. I'm pretty convinced. Thanks.
 

bradford

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I can't imagine how hard it would be to hunt One fox with a bow,
and I'm pretty good archer. I see them around here on occasion,
usually late at night. Then they're shy, intelligent and sneaky too.
This hunter is "in the zone", hence the golden arrow award
(yes, award, cuz bronze arrows are absolutely useless for hunting).
So what help did he have to put him in the zone?
I would assume that the foxes were causing trouble, mebbe
with the poultry. So the exigencies of the situation helped with
its resolution, as is the meaning of the overall Gua 40.
There wer pressures for resolution, even necessities, and timing
too. Maybe the foxes were emboldened by a run of successes.
In all I'd say the foxes symbolize tricky problems in need of
something extra by way of solution.
The fox as a symbol had other meanings in the culture as well,
as we see in Gua 63 & 64. It also was a euphemism for a young
woman of "easy virtue". But I don't see these at all in 40.2
 

Trojina

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Yeah in 63 and 64 I've always thought we were to identify with fox - at least I always have. So when the fox is wetting his tail etc the querant thinks that is his position also ?
 

hilary

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I blogged 40.2's foxes in March. As far as I could make out by reading up on fox beliefs, they mainly caused problems by disguising themselves as humans, especially as women.

Like I say in that entry, I met the fox online once - a thief using fake or stolen card details and a series of false names - and Yi confirmed his identity with 40.2. Now his IP address is blocked: one fox bagged.

I think the fox of 63-64 is a different animal altogether - and yes, you identify with the fox and try to keep your tail dry.

Wouldn't a bronze arrowhead be quite useful?
 

bradford

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hilary said:
Wouldn't a bronze arrowhead be quite useful?

Depends. There's one causing a problem at 21.5
Might cost the guy a tooth if he's chewing too fiercely

The word Shi3 refers to the whole arrow, but I spoze you could
break the head off your trophy and use that in a pinch, like to
replace the arrow you lost at 56.5, or fix the one you broke
when you missed the chicken and hit the cave wall at 62.5.
 

dobro p

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"So the exigencies of the situation helped with its resolution, as is the meaning of the overall Gua 40."

You know, a lot of people experience situational exigencies without that exigency helping with a resolution. What makes the difference in 40.2, do you think? Situational exigencies don't help most people get into the zone, so why the person in 40.2?

I can see being in the zone as helping the resolution of the situation. But seeing the need of the situation as helping someone get into the zone - that's a new idea.
 

bradford

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dobro said:
There's no chicken in that cave. I looked.

Did you see anything more frightening than that?
They look a lot more menacing in the shadows
 

bradford

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dobro said:
You know, a lot of people experience situational exigencies without that exigency helping with a resolution. What makes the difference in 40.2, do you think?
\

It's in the hexagram itself. Timing is especially important with Gua 40.
Things must come to a head (or get unbrearable) before they resolve.
Then all of the tensions and pressures are pushing towards the change.
This is mentioned in the Tuan Zhuan of Gua 40. It's one of several
Tuan Zhuan texts that specifically call out the importance of timing.
Note that tension before release describes Archery, the subject of
a couple of Gua 40's lines. You need that draw or pull or tension first,
or your arrow just falls to the ground. You also wait until your aim is true.
 

hilary

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I just had a similar experience with 45.2 - 'drawing out, good fortune'. The tension didn't feel particularly fortunate, but it exerted enough pull to move things in a good direction.
 

dobro p

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"Did you see anything more frightening than that?
They look a lot more menacing in the shadows"

A menacing shadow chicken...or maybe something else...hmm...

I always thought the guy was shooting into the cave in order to get something he positively wanted rather than to deal with a threat. Seems to fit in with the overall theme of 62 better ("attending to detail and small issues in order to succeed"). Plus, I always thought he hit what he was shooting at. Maybe I'm wrong; after all, he doesn't get a golden arrow, right? Maybe he's just trigger happy and unrestrained.
 
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dobro p

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Thanks for the blog link, Hilary. Interesting stuff there.
 

dobro p

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But to return to 40 and 40.2:

"It's in the hexagram itself. Timing is especially important with Gua 40.
Things must come to a head (or get unbrearable) before they resolve.
Then all of the tensions and pressures are pushing towards the change.
This is mentioned in the Tuan Zhuan of Gua 40. It's one of several
Tuan Zhuan texts that specifically call out the importance of timing.
Note that tension before release describes Archery, the subject of
a couple of Gua 40's lines. You need that draw or pull or tension first,
or your arrow just falls to the ground. You also wait until your aim is true."

Yeah, this makes sense. The help's part of the time imaged in the hexagram.
 

Sparhawk

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dobro said:
Thanks for the blog link, Hilary. Interesting stuff there.

Yes, thanks for that. I missed it before and that exchange between Bob and Steve in the comments is amusing. Now, who's this Bob? I seem to remember his writing style but not sure...

L
 

dobro p

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You know, that blog exchange was interesting to me for two reasons. First, people who know the Yi trying to tease meaning out of examining the image carefully is interesting to me. Second, people who know the Yi trying to tease out what for me is a far too specific meaning from the image. I'm thinking about the 'hawk on the wall' discussion for instance, and people wondering whether the duke shot the hawk on his own wall or somebody else's, and whether he shot from inside the wall or from outside, and stuff like that. Surely that's immaterial. Surely 40.6 is about ending something that's seriously threatening or predatory, and nothing more specific than that. (It could apply to something in your environment or something in your mind.) The specificity is supplied by your situation; the Yi just supplies the multi-purpose image.
 

hilary

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Yes, I see your point. How many hawks can you shoot on the head of a pin? Still, you need to be able to move into a line, imaginatively - and for that, the clearer and more your picture of the scene, the better.
 

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