...life can be translucent

Menu

54.1 to 40, 17.5 to 51

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Dear friends, I'm afraid I need some help with the reading.
A little history first - about a month ago my very old girlfriend, whom I haven't seen since the graduation called me and suggested that we meet. We met and just chatted and agreed to meet again. I didn't think seriously about it at first, but pretty soon I realised that I still love her more than anyone I knew. What makes things even more complicated is the fact that I've been married for almost a decade now and I never even had a thought of cheating on my wife but what's happening now is just beyond me.
We're calling each other now, not actually dating but all our conversations lack essence. I don't fully understand what her intentions are, is it just nostalgia or she feels smth similar to what I feel. At the same time I don't want to pressurize her in any way and I really think it's better to just let it flow.
Nevertheless, there's noone I can share it with, so I just asked Yi a very blunt and straightforward question - Does she love me? 51 changing to 40 is what I got.
Frankly, it's the first time I'm struggling with the interpretation. Overall meaning seems to be positive, but I also think what Yi is trying to tell me is that I need to wait for some step-change rather than try to create one myself.
I also asked if there's anything I can do to develop and improve my relationship with her and got 17 changing at 5 going to 51. Again this is the way I feel now, but it just seems there's more to it.

Anyways, any thoughts will be much-much-much appreciated. I checked many threads on this board but didn't find a combination like this one anywhere, so I apologize again for bringing my questions in, but I'm just coming through one of the darkest periods in my life now.
Thanks you all again!
 
Last edited:

mudpie

visitor
Joined
Feb 22, 1971
Messages
687
Reaction score
22
Dear noisy carpet,

My feeling about 54 > 40 is that she knows you are married and feels at a disadvantage. Perhaps feels she should exit the situation before it progresses.
And 17.5 is about loyal following, constancy. Maybe your friend would want the whole enchilada. It is just interesting that you got 17.5 about this situation since your situation necessarily entails a bit of disloyalty (for your wife). I am wondering if you have considered whether you are willing to "go the distance" for this person? This would mean, would you be willing to leave your wife, divorce, and take up with this new love? 17. 5 is a lot about being willing to "go for it," go the distance, do what ever it takes to follow your heart. And based on the question, it seems that might be what is required of this, if you do indeed want to take it further.

Sorry to hear about your dark period. Hope things improve.
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
Dear nosey,
Wilhelm comments that 17.5 is about having an ideal to follow. By having such a lodestar we more easily stay on our path. What is your lodestar? What is the highest good you can imagine, and how does your connection with this woman align with this ideal? For example, if your highest ideal, the ideal you want to be the walking embodiment of, is Romantic Love, then you will improve your relationship with this woman by acting in accordance with this ideal - perhaps by having an affair or even leaving your wife. On the other hand if you believe that keeping your word - your vow to be faithful - is your highest ideal, then acting in accordance with this value will improve your relationship with your friend too, even if it means you must renounce the romance.
51 says the superior man sets his life in order. Walk your talk.
17 says the superior man sleeps well at night. Don't do anything that makes you lose sleep.
 

willowfox

Inactive
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
5,530
Reaction score
261
"Does she love me? 51 changing to 40 is what I got.?"

Hex 51.2 she is going through some kind of crisis here and is experiencing or feeling some kind of loss in the matter, but in due course everything will sort itself out regards to her feelings toward you, love is regained.

Hex 40 she has experienced a block/obstacle in her feelings toward you but now that has been removed, so I would imagine that in a while her love for you will blossom and grow.
Hex 40 indicates the time around the middle of March.

"I also asked if there's anything I can do to develop and improve my relationship with her and got 17 changing at 5 going to 51."

Hex 17.5 says to follow your heart/feelings and go for her.

Hex 51 Some time in the next few months you will experince some kind of shock/upheaval in your affair, at first you will be frightened because of not being prepared for it but later you will be happy. The outcome of the shake up is positive and new possibilities open up for you, all good stuff.
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
Noisemaker noisemaker
You have no complaint
You are what you are
And you ain't what you aint
So listen up buster
And listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck
And knocking on wood
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
HEY some clarification needed about what hexagram you got. The title of the thread says 54.1, in your first post you say you got 51,1. Listener is answering as if you got 54,1, others are answering as if you got 51,1 ?? What did you actually throw, it makes alot of difference ;)
 
Last edited:

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
thank you all, friends, it's really helpful. Trojan, sorry I wrote it in a hurry and made a mistake in the body of the message - it's 54 with the first line changng just like in the subject. Sorry for it.
Now, getting to the points regarding following, I really don't know. I never thought about anything like divorce in my life, I was through a divorce of my parents as a kid and it really leaves a mark on you for te rest of your life. Nevertheless, and I know it sounds awful, I think I'm ready for divorce now. What I now feel is by far the most serious feeling ever, it's like I'm plugged to a nuclear station, much stronger than back then in the university. I'm trying to figure out another queston to ask Yi but Ithink it may wait as Yi told me enough. Thanks again for your help!
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
It's a lyric from a John Prine song called Dear Abbey. He loves to write wrily about misery.
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Read the 54 reading again, still don't fully understand how it's applicable to the question. Listener, your comments may be right, though, sad.
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
dobro, don't know if you speak any russian, but "dobro" means "good" in russian as opposed to "evil", which is "zlo" Just in case you didn't know
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Noisy 54 is often about being of use in a relationship, being used and seen for your function rather than who you really are. Not the most fun place to be, though not all bad I guess. Line 1 clearly reflects the situation of being secondary to a main partner - whether that refers to her or you I don't know ? Do you know for sure she isn't with someone ? . Its hard to interpret when you ask 'does she love me' because the answer you get may be more about what you can expect or advice to you, not about her. I think its easier to understand the answer if you ask about how you should act, what you should do etc..

Either way if i had received this to this question i think it might be time to come down to earth and look at the facts. What made her contact you at this time, what does she want ? You say your conversations 'lack essence' and you don't know what her intentions are - yet you are head over heels in love. I just don't see 54 as particulary positive in relationship questions, as its about coming second, and not being valued for who you really are, only what you can bring. To save yourself hurt I'd take a step back and look at this as a stranger would - what does she want ? Before you go ahead thinking about ending existing relationships you need to know what her reality is, the only way to know that is by asking her. Of course 40 indicates a release from this pressure on you, whether that be through finishing things with her or your current partner I don't know.

Re17,5 I agree pretty much with what Rosada said. As a stranger looking at your situation I think what has this woman bought you except romantic feelings ? You aren't even having satisfactory conversations. Then think of what your wife has bought you.
What do you value, what has substance ? Then its up to you, but don't rely on the Yi to tell you how she feels, its her that needs to do that

Many here, when they get no real feedback from their loved one keep on asking the Yi and every answer looks positive to them and they just head deeper and deeper into delusion.
 
Last edited:

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
I think it's interesting in a situation like this you ask the question, "what can I do to improve my relationship with Her". What relationship?

Oh- you mean the feeling of infatuation and nostalgia you had when you met her. 17.5 (51). Sometimes when you ask nonsensical questions that totally avoid the questions you should be asking the answer you've gotten just mirrors your emotions back to you.
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
autumn, your comment makes a lot of sense. It's not the right word here, really. Maybe I need to toss the coins again, but I need to think about the right question here. I'm not using Yi that often, but I know for sure that when you're asking too many questions it really becomes just a mirror of your expectations, just like you said. Thanks a lot!
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
trojan, thanks a ton, it's not really like I'm ready to feed on dellusions, I understand pretty well that what's going on is going on just inside me and any resolution possible is going to happen just inside me. I also don't think that the readings are that positive. The only clear thing about them is this whole situation is going to last for a while before resolving, and the outcome won't be anything I expect.
You're also saying that I need to pay more attention to the facts. This is absolutely right, but the facts are not plentiful and this is the very reason I ended up asking Yi. Nothing is easier than act promtly and straightforward, but I'm conscious not to hurt her and I just don't know enough. On the other hand it's been 9 years after we last talked and the fact that we separated back then was totally not my fault, so she must have had a reason to call. So I guess the right question to ask would really be Why?
Sorry again, I'm using your help, but strong emotions make you a little stupid and somewhat blind, so I appreciate your advice a lot.
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
How about, "show me Her purpose in my life?"

And then, "how should I proceed with Her?" and "how should I proceed with my wife?"
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
hi again! Actually I tossed the coins again, asking whether I should talk to her and explain what I feel. It's not because I'm trying to find the "right" answer, but I feel it may be something the hex 17 hints at. Here's what I got - 59 to 42. Looks like the right thing to do. Any ideas?
Again I do apologize for using your time and I do appreciate your help.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
noisy_carpet said:
. The only clear thing about them is this whole situation is going to last for a while before resolving, and the outcome won't be anything I expect.
.

Not sure why you get that from the reading ? Anyway I can sympathise. I don't understand how these feelings work much either, sudden infatuation etc. I mean theres plenty of theories, projection/transference etc but when you're in it even if you know there is no basis for your feelings, your feelings remain anyway.

FWIW my solutions to date have been ;)

a) total avoidance of infatuation object so I don't lead myself further into misery - this is harsh but it works. I tend to get over them quite fast but come to think of it i may have lost some good friends that way or blocked whatever was potentially positive in the liason.

b) keeping quiet about my feelings, continue in whatever mode relationship is in and see what happens. I don't know how this turns out, still experimenting. ;)

c) blurting out my true feelings. This is disastrous in one sided infatuation scenarios but it is very funny to look back on years later :rofl:

Hmm anyway line 1 of 54 would seem to indicate, if taken quite literally, that though you cannot be first in someones affections there still is nonetheless some good to be gained by continuing on in the relationship, but on a lower key level than you hope for. Of course I keep overlooking the fact that you already knew her, you have history, this isn't someone you just fell for while waiting for a bus.

I don't think i can help much but I do think you would be wise as you say to focus on 'Why'. Why now after 9 years did she call you ? She can't expect you not to wonder what shes up to.
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
Hmm, seems I crossed posts with you. Who knows, maybe that was a good thing.

Anyway, I still recommend "show me her purpose" from a higher perspective, and "how to proceed with my wife". I'd interpret 59.1.2 (42) as how to proceed.

My interpretation of that answer is that you need to delve deeply within yourself to unlock what she is touching in your psyche and surrender to it. Having surrended to it, you can communicate with her about the soulmate feeling (61.2) you are feeling, which has the potential to enrich your life. That does not necessarily mean you should run off with her. Look closely at her purpose in your life and how to proceed with your wife. Soulmates come into our lives to teach a spiritual lesson, not necessarily to be our life partners.
 

noisy_carpet

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
trojan, thanks as usual! hope I can help you out sometime as well!
Autumn, I did as you suggested. Her purpose in my life - 48 to 46.
Also asked what am I for her - 11 to 3.
Hands down. Yi never lied to me, it might take awhile to get the message, but it always tells the truth.
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
Why didn't you ask how to proceed with your wife?

Don't involve in vain speculations like, "what is my purpose in her life". That doesn't concern you. First deal with your own life and finish the questions.
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
Dear noisy,
How about you go back and reinterpret your answers from the perspective that the I Ching is telling you that she only got in touch with you in the first place because she was feeling guilty about how your relationship ended 9 years ago. As you say, you weren't the one to break it off so I'm assuming it was she who called it quits. Now all this time has gone by and she's wanting to make amends. She knows you are married but she is not looking to displace your wife or even become a friend. Her intention is to stay in the background (54.1), and merely to touch base with you to see if you're okay, maybe apologize and hopefully receive your forgiveness (40. The superior man pardons mistakes, and forgives misdeeds.) However, it was not you who ended the relationship, and as the book title says, "Feelings buried alive never die," so of course your hopes and passions spring back to life. Now you are in a real pickle. You'd like to think she called out of missing you, but if you realistically look at what the I Ching is saying, it's more likely she called because she just knows it ended badly and she wants Peace (11). Possibly you could get something started again, (Difficulty in the Beginning), but there is nothing in these readings to suggest that is what she is wanting. Indeed, these readings point to her wanting closure. If you tear your life apart to take up with her again it will probably only progress to the point where you left off and then she'll want out again, only this time she'll feel less guilty about it and be able to leave without a backward glance.
Bottomline, give her closure. Tell her you really did love her, you are eternally grateful that she cared enough to look you up after all these years, she must not think she ruined your life, you went on to marry a wonderful woman who loves you more than you deserve to be loved and you wish her the best. Good bye.

Meanwhile I agree with autumn. Start asking the I Ching, "What can I focus on to improve my marrage?" As adults we tend to set up situations in our own life that replicate the unsolved puzzels of our childhood. Most likely your parents came to some impasse in their relationship that they "solved" by divorcing. You as their child, however, know this solution was unsatisfactory as it left you hurting and obviously unable to form a lasting relationship on your own. You think if only you had married The Right One you would not have these problems. Wrong. You will always have "these problems", these feelings that your love is not worth it. Your love was not enough to keep your parents together, your love was not enough to keep your girlfriend, and now instead of being happy with your wife, you start to wonder if maybe she isn't "worth it." After all, what sort of a fool must she be to settle for a sorry soul like you? But now your ex has come around again and suddenly you think you are a Worthwhile Person after all! It's like the dream of your parents reuniting coming true, only with the next generation. Heady stuff, but doomed.

Well, I've kinda gone out on a limb here so I'm not going to carry on any further. But using the I Ching to guide you with thie romantic fantasy instead of asking it to shore up your marrage seems realllly foolish, IMHO.

P.S. Are you into feng shui? Supposedly having a round mirror in your bedroom hanging where you can not see it from your bed - ie. hanging on the wall behind the bed - will help harmonize your marrage. Having a mirror - or a television - in the bedroom placed where you can see the images from your bed is said to draw a third party into your relationship. So! Hang a round mirror behind your bed and if you do have a t.v., keep it drapped when you aren't watching.
 
Last edited:

martin

(deceased)
Joined
Oct 2, 1971
Messages
2,705
Reaction score
60
noisy_carpet said:
Her purpose in my life - 48 to 46

Nice answer, I think it means that she is in your life now to unblock your feelings, make them flow (more).
To open your heart more, perhaps.

And whatever happens, that's usually a gain. :)
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
I agree the experience of re-connecting with his old girlfriend appears to be very positive for his inner, emotional life. The problem is that he's so dishonest he refuses to even address how to deal with the person he supposedly loves and is committed to and lives with on a daily basis: his wife. He seems unwilling to even think about her, and most likely the reason is because he's looking for excuses to have sex with this other woman.

The old girlfriend may be many things; a portal into recognizing and cleansing deeper feelings, (like Rosada points out), a catalyst for spiritual renewal, but he most certainly does not LOVE his old girlfriend, or LOVE his wife, for that matter.

Love does not view another person as a narcissitic device. When you love someone, you recognize that they exist separately from you and have emotional experiences and needs that are equal in importance to your own. They don't "disappear" so you can go have sex with someone and then conveniently "reappear" when you start needing a wife again. A person who "loves" you cares intimately about what you think, feel, and experience. The thought of causing pain to someone you acutally love is an overwhelming deterent. You simply don't do things that would cause pain for them.

If you can't feel that way about someone else, or if you don't feel that way, then that person is not even real in your life. They are two-dimensional and caricatured. Your wife exists for YOU to serve YOUR NEEDS, but you have no such responsibility to her. It is impossible for it not to be this way if you cannot address your relationship, and wish for her to disappear so you can fantasize about having sex with your ex-girlfriend. Loving another person doesn't allow you to pretend they don't exist while you go have sex with someone else because you feel like it.

Love also does not stay on the lookout for someone better or more fulfilling to come along, but if your relationship is nothing more than a two-dimensional narcissitic device that serves your needs then you will ALWAYS be open to someone else who is "better". For example, it is not possible for me to have "better" children than I have. I love my children with all of my heart and soul, and they as individuals are irreplaceable. I could not possibly wish for them to be different, more personally fulfilling children.

Yes, it is a fair comparison. Absolutely it is a fair comparison. A marriage has many components, and some aspects of the relationship are not about real, true, love, BUT real, true unconditional love must be one part of it. It must be the bedrock for everything else. If you can make your wife disappear in your mind so you can fantasize about how this other person would fulfill you, even though you know the destruction and pain this would cause your wife, YOU DO NOT LOVE your wife, noise carpet.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Feelings don't tend to fall neatly into what they're supposed to 'rightfully' be though do they Autumn.? I think its always possible even in a good loving relationship a sudden infatuation with another might develop. If one develops such an infatuation I wouldn't say it is wrong as such - it happens and it doesn't mean he doesn't love his wife. He may, he may not, we don't know. Surely its better he can talk about it openly to work it out than feel confusion alone ?
 

martin

(deceased)
Joined
Oct 2, 1971
Messages
2,705
Reaction score
60
Hmm, perhaps I have missed something, but as far as I see Noisy asks the Yi questions because he feels overwhelmed by the feelings that the renewed contact with his ex-gf triggered.
I don't find anything in his posts that indicates that he is seriously thinking about starting a relationship with his ex-gf, leaving his wife, etcetera.
In fact he has written:
I understand pretty well that what's going on is going on just inside me and any resolution possible is going to happen just inside me.

So, what are you two, Rosada and Autumn, talking about? Not about Noisy, I think .. :)
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
Gee, Martin, I usually always say, "Does He Love Me?" and "We're not actually dating but" and "I've never thought of cheating on my husband before but" when my REAL intentions are completely platonic.

But I expected that kind of denial from this board, and expect a whole lot more of it, too. Good luck.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
FWIW my immediate suspicion about why she contacted you after 9 years Noise is that shes just had some negative relationship experience and started to look back and think maybe you can provide her with the positive reassurance she needs she is still attractive/desirable etc. She will recall she was the one who finished with you so likley expects (if subconsciously)you will still have feelings for her. If thats the case then she could be using you in a sense, but thats just speculation on my part.
 
Last edited:

martin

(deceased)
Joined
Oct 2, 1971
Messages
2,705
Reaction score
60
Autumn, whatever you are reacting to (maybe what is supposed to be 'typically male' behavior?) I think we have to be very careful with judging people that we hardly know, based on the little information that we have about them and their situation and a few hexagrams.
Things might be very different from what they seem to be.
 

autumn

visitor
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
430
Reaction score
4
My "reactions" are to 17.5 (51), 59.1.2. (42), and 48.5 (46) which all have a common theme of growth in understanding a higher form of love.

It is my judgment that many, many people, including parents in relationship to their children, are hindered in their ability to love truly and unconditionally because of their tendency to not appreciate the full "reality" of the inner world of their partner or loved one. This inability to appreciate the "reality" of the inner world of the other person is what allows people to psychologically deceive themselves into believing that there is some higher purpose to an attraction and affair.

The first time most people (and women are just as likely to cheat as men) have an affair they are usually highly convinced that there situation is unique, that the other man or woman is their soulmate, and that there are valid reasons to begin another relationship before dealing with and ending another. These are almost always delusions.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top