hexagram 12

[lightofreason]

...I'm afraid our time is up, Chris...that'll be $200...see you this time next week for our next provocative therapy session?

I found your comments/analysis amusing but also primitive and so obviously the product of a con artist - full of flim-flam.

No $200. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go.

[pakua]

(1) I dont teach. Dobro has been on this list and working with the IC long enough to know the limitations of the traditional sequence and as such when someone asks 'tell me about hexagram 12' giving the response presented was guilty of 'thought crime' (as were most others who presented the same, traditional sequence biased, interpretations)


(2) I believe in provocative therapy - it gets people off their reactive arses and so in proactive, competitive (but fun) mode that is creative and can lead to insights etc... or it can lead to some going off in a huff - but thats fine since their anger can serve to bring out competitive arguement that can be beneficial in the long run (even if anti me it can still get them to focus more clearly on their IC interpretations and THAT is the focus overall, not on me, on the IC ;-))


Chris.

1. This doesn't really fit mine or others' observations - unless you prefer a different word than "teaching"?

2. Do you generally find that to be a successful strategy? And "fun" for whom?

[lightofreason]

..2. Do you generally find that to be a successful strategy? And "fun" for whom?

sure - for those interested in the interactions. one cannot please all of the people all of the time thus one needs to be selective, to focus on quality ;-) - pushing buttons can bring that out.

[pakua]

sure - for those interested in the interactions. one cannot please all of the people all of the time thus one needs to be selective, to focus on quality ;-) - pushing buttons can bring that out.

How about "pleasing nobody most of the time". That's what pushing buttons usually results in. Although I suppose it depends on how you push the buttons.

Is there a hex and/or line which specifically supports this position? ie pushing buttons to force insights.

[lightofreason]

How about "pleasing nobody most of the time". That's what pushing buttons usually results in. Although I suppose it depends on how you push the buttons.

Is there a hex and/or line which specifically supports this position? ie pushing buttons to force insights.

sure : hexagram 01 - perseverance doubled gives us singlmindedness - competitive and "The Creative"

the focus for heaven associated hexagrams is on competitive exchange. The 'balanced form' of this mediation is in hex 11, the exaggerated, intense, form is hex 01. They makeup the poles of:

11,26,05,09,34,14,43,01

(34 has a focus on beginnings through being actively 'invigorated' as compard to 20 that is passive (you see someone 'standing out' and admire/copy. In 34 you get personally 'prodded' into action)

We can tone it down to cooperative exchange (and so a sexual element) through associations with lake:

19,41,60,61,54,38,58,10

The heaven focus covers a interaction to refine/test skills and so covers training from a 'hands on' position (martial arts but in both a physical and mental form ;-))

By being competitive, even in fun, in play, is creative in that it is discrete, encourages precision in thinking/action. By refining skills one becomes more efficient and conserves energy over the long run (the training leads to development of instincts/habits that go to enabling a filtration focus - represented in the trigrams of earth and mountain) - the issue is that to maintain skills requires perpetual training when in a dynamic context but as one matures so all of the 'dots' can link up to derive an associative memory that allows for good intuitive use of the skills.

'newbies' or those who let their skills diminish need 'exercise' to improve/refine those skills. ;-)

BTW - note that the realm of the discrete is the realm of clear distinction-making. The making of distinctions elicits borders and so lets loose what lives on borders - complexity/chaos dynamics and so the possibility of 'emergence'.

With the development of skills comes a focus on 'best practice'. With THAT comes 'singlemindedness' presented in a GROUP and THAT introduces the possibility of phase transition and so transcendence of the group as well as the individual.


BTW - we must not forget the singlemindedness hexagram octet:

12,33,06,44,25,13,10,01

The shared hexagram being 01 (as in sharing with the perseverence based hexagrams given above - 11 to 01)

Chris.

[rosada]

I asked the I Ching for a hex or line to support pushing bottons to force insights and received..

12.4.5 > 23

12.4 One feels called upon to enlighten the masses..

12.5 But fearful they may not get the message, one uses every method conceivable to get the point across.

Unfortunately this approach..

23. Doesn't win any converts.

[sophia pema]

Yes. Without the interplay of high and low the situation is barren.

I just received this hexagram, with line 1 moving.

The image that appeared to me was dense, dry ground, with clear water bubbling out of a pencil hole size break in the dry ground. The water was flowing gently, persistently softening the ground without damage. A powerful rush of water from without would split the ground.

Regarding the discussion on standstill (stagnation)/obstruction/results of standing firm in one's view or faith/ - the context is how to respond to a reversal of active give and take of heaven/earth energies. The tiny persistent trickle of water will be stronger than the dry hard ground, in time.

Any thoughts?

[itsyourlife]

I just received this hexagram, with line 1 moving.

The image that appeared to me was dense, dry ground, with clear water bubbling out of a pencil hole size break in the dry ground. The water was flowing gently, persistently softening the ground without damage. A powerful rush of water from without would split the ground.

Regarding the discussion on standstill (stagnation)/obstruction/results of standing firm in one's view or faith/ - the context is how to respond to a reversal of active give and take of heaven/earth energies. The tiny persistent trickle of water will be stronger than the dry hard ground, in time.

Any thoughts?

thats an interesting image you saw in 12.1

i just got 12.5, and im seeing my situation in 12.5 > 35 as two separate situations happening at the same time in my life.

one relates like the dense dry hard ground, the other like steady spurting like water...maybe like a persisting gentle wind, but more bubbly

the steady stream, all forms of (positive/progress oriented) communication vs. the hard, dry ground (blockage, no communication/affirmation/inspiration)

being stuck on this hard, almost too hard reality/situation/orientation, but also allowing/noticing/learning from 12(.1), letting this other situation i was looking for anyway turn up unexpected, and it happening im seeing as 12.5..
but these two lines i think would lead to 21, implying there is something there thats meant to come together
but only if the ground is not so hard it is waterproof,
and that the water isnt so strong or too weak that it doesnt mix with the ground/soil
so that when it does over take the ground
(from the inside: maybe due to discernment and choosing what output from the situation/s you should intake that suggest and promote progress)
it isnt all muddy or that there are remnant particles or whatever, but rather soaks it thoroughly and the dry hard ground becomes moist soil.

like for some reason im on the hard ground, and im into it so much for some reason- the illusion of secure reality (solid ground), but because as im walking on it, living it, its so hard its like, barren, so actually, im not feeling it, so i dont plug this leak that i sprung and now im noticing that this leak is kind of feeling, good, refreshing, feels way different from the packed dirt, as it starts it seems to be weakening the crust, if i learn from what i got/am getting into this packed dirt situation maybe this sweet leak, will start a kind of new life.

21.5 > 35 is that ok you know what is up, you know what hasnt worked and what causes these blocks, these episodes of {t.v. snow} something so nice turn into nothing.
do you want to keep watching this t.v. ? they switched to digital now, your rabbit ears wont help jack... ok meanwhile you get an email, you get a text, you get a phone call. you are invited over, you are being reassured you are adored, there is free flowing communication, how to respond to it? keep sitting and watching the damn t.v. snow, sometimes some lines show up for a second, or hey, turn it off or just get up, walk away and check out this other situation, its not like watching tv, its not like walking on solid ground but its more real somehow, its coming from everywhere, it nourishes, and is multi level in regards to information sharing... nice to nicer or noting the nice turn to boring/dry mouth-so being active yet cautious notice, meet and give the right amount of space and care the new situation and progress into that actual flexible dynamic indefinable state of being that you really need instead of that barren secure illusion of something you so thought you wanted while you were watching tv.

[chingching]

itsyourlife, do you know this is an old thread? I'm not sure sophia pema is here to respond to you. Glad you resurrected it though, very rich thread and as always c.loftings outrageous statements makes for a good read.

oh hex 12, if you were my sister I would find myself saying to people ' I love her but I just don't know what to do with her.'

[trojan]

Therapy? You as a therapist? YOU?!

OMG! Heeeelp, mayday! mayday! SOS!!

ah what the hell...I quoted this cos I thought it was funny....then I thought maybe I shouldn't since both parties in the exchange are dead..so I deleted it..but then what the hell....I still find it funny