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How to improve relationship with my stepson? Hex 23.6 to 2

magdalena

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Well, it is not a proper stepson yet as my partner and I are not married but you know what I mean. I have never been in a relationship before where the kids are involved and I'm finding it rather hard. My partner has two 12 yr old twins (girl and boy) from his previous marriage who come and stay with us most weekends and 1 day during the week and also spend the summer holidays with us. Im finding my relationship with the boy very difficult to handle (the girl is much more easy going). Im trying to do the right thing, be a friend to them and leave the educational side/telling off to the parents. In a way Im lucky as I get on well with the ex-wife who often helps. Im trying to never loose my temper, buy them birthday and Xmas gifts, talk to them but still the boy treats me with disrespect sometimes. It is often when no one is around and he will try to criticise me all the time (eg. the food I cooked is not right (mummy does it so much better) and mummy is more elegant and has more clothes etc.) It sounds funny but when you experience it constantly for a long time it does get to you. It does not upset me so much what he says (I don't really care who has more clothes) but that he actually tries to upset me. I know that kids from broken marriages feel insecure with the new partners but I'm really not that bad and if he showed me respect I would give him so much more. I tried talking to my partner and even the ex-wife, they had a talk with him and it was a little better for a while but it went back to "normal". It is also difficult to put a finger to it, the comments are not that bad or obvious sometimes but I know he tries to get to me (mummy and daddy have so much in common..., Daddy I hope you are not going to have kids with HER...)

Ok, cutting long story short I asked the Yi What I can do to improve my relationship with M? To which I got Hexagram 23.6 changing to 2.

As always your comments and support would be greatly appreciated.
 

void

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Hi Magdalena my feeling on this is that you won't have to do very much at all as the boys behaviour will die out of its own accord. The way he is acting is not in his interests, I feel he is going to come to realise that. Might be a bit of hormonal pubertal rebellion that will just burn itself out. Seems to me you have done all you can do, exersized much patience (2) and been careful to respect his boundaries etc. I think there will be a positive outcome if you continue as you are. This bad time nearly over 23,6 and the boys unpleasant behaviour consumes itself, falling like a ripe fruit.....

Thats just my take, hopefully you will get feedback from others also.
 
R

rosada

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I like your interpretation much better than my own, Void! When I saw the hexagrams my immediate take was, "Well, she could (23) Split and (2) Never be Seen Again, that might improve things!" Seriously, is this kid having to spend more time with you two that is appropriate for a 12 year old? That sometimes happens with these weekend visits. He wants to be out playing frisbee and instead he has to be entertaining Dad...
 

magdalena

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Void thank goodness for your comment, it's like honey to my tormented soul (they are coming tonight and im already all tense, cooking lasagna that will definitely not turn out as good as mummy's :) I really hope you are right...

Rosada stop scaring me :) My question was more of a what/how to improve things so running away and never be seen again might not be the best solution ;-)
 
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jesed

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Hi Magdalena:

Just in case the comment could be useful

1.- Asking first how is the relationship, you can get more clarity when later ask how to improve that relationship. Some times, make a Diagnosis of the relationship shows us that we have some "blind points" about it.

2.- Anyway, about your question.
When question is how to act, the image is a great reference.
In 23: "The high ones make their house peaceful by generosity to the low ones" (Lise's translation).
Is not only about "gifts", but emotional/spiritual generosity.
I understand that is not easy the situation... and requieres a lot of genenosity from you (adult=high one) to understand the circunstances of M (kid=low one). But... you are the adult and he is the kid
happy.gif

There is a posibility for improve relationship with M ("The big fruit is not eaten"). If you act with a "small mind" (lise's comment of 23.6) this posibility will be end... if you act with a great spirit, you would achieve it.


Best wishes
 
R

rosada

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Hi Magdalena,

Sorry, didn't mean to scare you!

Well, another way of looking at 23.6 : evil will run it's course and if you continue to act in a manner that is friendly - blameless - ultimately you will emerge unscathed.

Hexagram 2 is about the power of the responsive partner. As you choose what to respond to you -ie. ignoring the bad, engaging with the good - you shape your world.

Meanwhile, though, I do think the I Ching is saying if this drama gets to be too much from time to time, you would not be at fault if you were to decide "Family Night" for your partner is 'Girl's Night Out" for you!

I also agree with the suggestion that you consult the I Ching for an assessment of your relationship with the boy right now. That may give you more specific clues than just being reassured by 23.6 that this too shall pass.

Best wishes,
Rosada
 

magdalena

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I love your last comment Rosada, I hope I'm tough enough. I also agree about consulting the Yi about the current status of the relationship which should give me a better picture of what's going on. Thank you guys once again!
 
R

rosada

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One more thought, Magdalena..

I had an occasion yesterday to consult the I Ching yesterday and the answer I received was..23.6 - 2!

The situation was that there was a snowfall here while my husband and I were away on a trip. When we came home we didn't have chains on the tires and our camper became stuck. While my husband got the bad news from Triple A ("We don't do dirt roads..." grrr) I tossed the coins and received,

23. There is a large fruit still uneaten.
The superior man receives a carriage.
The house of the inferior man is split apart.

"There is a large fruit still uneaten."
Although I hadn't paid attention to this line before, now it seemed to be saying there was something more we could do, but it came with a warning...
"The superior man receives a carriage" Okay, that sounded like if we did things right we'd get our rv unstuck. But..
"The house of the inferior man is split apart" Yikes, the car was on a narrow road and seemed to be saying if a person weren't careful it could slip off and tumble into the ditch!

Anyway, long story longer, my first instinct was to hide in the house and let The Superior Man - my husband - figure out what to do, but then I thought maybe hiding would be the stradigy of the Inferior Man and that would lead to the house splitting apart - either because the rv falls off the road or because by not participating my sence of home is undermined because I didn't participate through thick and thin. That's when I suddenly realized I was dealing with the same hexagram we've been dicussing here. So I thought, well what would Magdalena do?

Stay involved!

I then studied Hexagram 2. That seemed rather hopeful with the "mare" able to roam all over the earth (like a car that runs?).
It clearly emphasized the importance of not taking the lead and QUITE perseverance. Then somehow the idea occured to me that while it was too much of a job for my husband with his back, if I offered to help (not "leading", just offering!) we could shovel the car out of the snow. We set to work and ta-ta before long the road was clear and we got the car up and out!!

The funny thing that I thought might be useful to share with you here is that while we were shoveling the snow my sweetie was constantly critisizing my technique, as in "You don't need to worry about that snow, just dig out this snow, toss it over here, hold the shovel this way, etc ., etc." I thought of you having to endure the comments about the meals! Seeing the similarities had me smiling inside, but I persevered - QUIETLY and, lo!, the camper became free and not only that but afterwards we felt we had achieved something together and that made us feel like we are a great team! Perhaps as you and your step-son work through this challange you too will emerge with a sence of a champion teamwork.

Anyway, thanks for bringing your situation and this hexagram to our attention. I certainly benefitted from your sharing!
 

magdalena

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Wow! I loved your story! "Well, not the fact that your rv got stuck in snow (you surely don't live in England, as far as I know all you can get stuck in in London is a big pile of mud) but how two seemingly unrelated incidents can be summarised by the same two hexagrams so accurately. Well, there is hope for me here then, as long as I keep being involved but don't try to take on a leading stand but just go with the flow whilst being supportive then it should turn out ok... Hopefully... Thank you Rosada!
 
B

bruce

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My leaning is toward Jesed's interpretation on this one.

It's hard to provide for someone who is acting disrespectful and antagonistic, but the reward (fruit) in doing so, though unseen (uneaten), still provides the nourishment for him you intend in the long run. The earth carries all things, and with the exception of occasional outbursts, she rarely complains about those who show her no respect or gratitude.

Not an easy task, nonetheless.
 

pakua

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"as long as I keep being involved but don't try to take on a leading stand but just go with the flow whilst being supportive"

I wouldn't necessarily not lead. I think a little guidance could be in order.

I'm reminded of what happened to me once with this line. There was something I wanted to do, but my friend was not amenable. I could see her objections were due to a lack of understanding of the whole thing. I didn't push, I continued to provide support, but every once in a while I took a small step in the direction of my project.

It took a year or more, but now we're both happy.
 

magdalena

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Overall there is hope then. The boy probably acts the way he does partly because he is scared of loosing his dad maybe, partly as he is finding it hard to accept someone new in his dad's life and partly because generally kids from broken marriages are actually quite spoilt as both parents try to overcompensate for the break up and end up letting their children get away with a murder.

I agree with you Pakua then that he does need some gentle guidance which I try to provide from time to time but it's so hard to do as his behaviour takes away all my self confidence. I will keep trying nonetheless....

Thank you guys for all your imput, I think I get a picture now and I actually feel much better for it as it gives me some hope that at least I'm heading in the right direction and that not all is lost...
 
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bruce

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From reading your last..

I can, believe it or not
lame.gif
, remember being a young boy. More than anything, I was determined to hold onto my own. I think this is all he may be doing, holding onto his own.

The task as I see it is for you to hold onto your own. Earth may not complain a lot but neither can she be moved.
 

luz

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Magdalena,

Another thing to keep in mind, this is not a problem experienced exclusively by disliked step mothers, real mothers can also feel hopeless and unappreciated very often. Kids can be like that. But deep inside, they are soft creatures and they do appreciate what you do. So, don't be discouraged by the coments. I liked Jesed's interpretation very much also, because of that, you are after all the "high one". You have more influence over him than you think.

Good luck.
 

lovi

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This is my first time posting. Rosada told me about the site. She and I take turns every Sunday throwing the I Ching "for the week". This week's throw came up with 23.6 to 2 as she has mentioned.

I've read the entries on this thread and had a question. While it certainly makes sense in Magdalena's situation that she should be supportive, I'm not sure how that applies in the matter than has unfolded for me. I'd be interested in knowing what resources everyone is using that advises to support rather than to do nothing, which is what is indicated in the books I have.

Here's my situation. My husband and I have been in a...well I'll call it a legal disagreement... with a group of people. We read some legal documents one way, but it is not what they want to hear since it does not suit their purposes. We are willing to compromise and have submitted our view of the matter and what we are willing to do. While the group disagrees with us, they have yet to submit a counter offer. This issue has been in limbo like this for over 2 yrs. Recently we advised them that if some effort to resolve the issue was not made by them by year's end, we would have to have a judge decide the matter. Shortly after that, they suggested we meet with them. We agreed. When I did not hear back about the exact time and place and the date was coming up, I wrote and got a response that said "it is pointless to meet since the board's views are so far from yours". That email arrived last night and was obviously the manifestation of hexagram 23.

My husband and I have not responded, taking the advice of the books I have to "take no action". But now after reading this thread, I wonder if there is something we could do to encourage the situation along in a positive way.

Thank you for any input.
Lovi
 

void

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Lovi I'm lost ? Do you mean you and Magdalena do one throw for both your situations ? I don't understand how you are sharing a reading ? You mean neither of you ask a question you just throw ? Why would 23,2 apply to both of you in differing situations ?
 
J

jesed

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Hi Lovi

Just in case the comment could be useful

When asking about lawsuits (Master Joseph Yu's comment):

Present (23): Face reality and accept defeat
Future (2): Give way and seek peace

Best wishes
 
R

rosada

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Hi Void,
It's Lovi and I that consult the I Ching together. Each week for the past four years we have taken turns tossing and asking, "What would be a meaningful hexagram for us to study this week?" and then we share how the week's toss has manefested in our lives.
This last week I tossed 23.6 - 2, the same hexagram that we have been studying here for Magdalena.

Welcome Lovi, glad you could make it!!! I think 23.6 - 2 only points to the collapse of that original meeting happening this week, but I think to get a clear insight into how to navigate the situation you should create a whole new thread and give it a fresh toss.
As you've no doubt realized there are many really top notch readers here!

:)
 
R

rosada

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Hi Jesed

I wonder if you could tell me what book you are looking at when you quote Master Yu? I have his "Idiot's Guide to the I Ching", but in my book he gives a different twist to 23.6:

23.6 Referring to the core of the Zhou government, the "great fruit" has not been damaged. The people supported those who maintained honor and integrity. Stay firm and correct and you will be recognized and rewarded.

2. Like a mare, be loyal and diligent. Be humble and modest. Stick to your principles and learn from your experiences. if the process of events confuses you don't despair. You will find the right path.

Just curious! Thanks!
 

void

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Wow the plot thickens,I can't keep up ! Strange isn't it that thats the hex you and your friend tossed and it coincides with Magdalenes !!

Your method of doing it between you though, doesn't it presuppose you are so interlinked the YiJing is going to regard you as one person - if you get my drift ? That your fates and experiences that week are going to coincide ?

Also I'm confused because you said the question you and Lovi pose each week is "What would be a meaningful hexagram to study this week" so the answer of 23,6 is not a response about Lovis legal wrangle ? Surely in order for Yi to answer that question she actually has to ask it a specific question about the dispute. The joint question you ask is so open I would not see it as giving an answer to her question.
 

lovi

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It does sound impossible, Void, that Rosada and I can throw and the same results apply for both. What's more, we are 3000 miles apart! When it's my turn to throw, I ask "What kind of week will we (Rosada, my husband and myself) have?" For each of the six throws, I mix up our names in different order to ensure that all are considered equally. HOW it can be appropriate for all three of us is still a mystery to me. As for Madgalena, it was just a coincidence that she also came up with the same results when she asked her specific question.

As for the manifestation of this week's throw for my husband and myself, it occurred to me after I posted that there was indeed "fruit yet to be eaten" and that we had an opportunity to respond to the group who were cancelling the meeting. We plan to do that this evening...to try and mend fences and get back on track. To not respond to them would, I think, split us apart forever and do great damage....would even force us into a court situation, and perhaps the second hexagram (2) would never come into reality. But by answering, prehaps we can resolve the issue outside of the court system.

Lovi
 

cal val

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Lovi...

I very much relate to your statement "I'd be interested in knowing what resources everyone is using that advises to support rather than to do nothing." Frankly I believe the message in 23.6 is difficult for anyone to accept and especially difficult for people with control issues. That's why they cling to the idea they can do something about it... control it. I think the stronger the need for control, the more desperately one clings to idea that action is possible. And I love Jesed's answer for anything when I get 23.6.

Present (23): Face reality and accept defeat [or loss]
Future (2): Give way and seek peace

23.6 is just that. Acceptance, not action. Acceptance of loss... and I would like to add to Jesed's very wise remarks that both 23 and 2 apply to both the present and the future, and that the fruit represents the lessons to be learned and/or the memories to be cherished from the experience. So 23.6 is saying let go, count your losses, count your blessings and move on... in peace.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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The last time I got 23.6 was around March 7 or 8, 2004... when I had to put down my almost-23-year-old cat (that I found when he was only 4 weeks old). I actually received the answer 23.5.6 to make the secondary hexagram 8 because I was being told to initiate the splitting apart... his death... my loss... as well as accept it.

My control issues were raging. It was probably the most difficulty answer I'd ever had to accept. I didn't want to let go, and I was screaming at the Yi "NO NO NO... PLEASE tell me how to save him again." (They had helped me keep him alive for several months up to then). But they wouldn't tell me what I wanted... because it was over... he was past the point of saving, and he was in pain. I had to accept that and move on and help him move on... to peace.

Love,

Val
 
J

jesed

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Hi

Just in case the comment could be useful

Master Huan-Ching Ni comment about 23.6: the tree has only one fruit left; all the others fruits had been eaten by the people. If you eat this last fruit uneaten, you lose your last chance to revitalization. The higher one doesn't eat the last fuit; doesn't spoil the last chance for a new begining.

Best wishes
 
R

rosada

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Jesed - thank you for this insight into the fruit. I just love it when these obscure referances are explained and then of course they make total sence!
Also thank you for Master Yu's website. Unfortunately I see one needs to take the whole course rather than just buy a book - and I wouldn't dare to presume to ask you to pass on his private teachings. Did you see his comment about those who do not respect his request that the lessons not be shared? Violators will not be prosecuted but they create a karmic debt that lasts through out eternity! Yikes, and I know he means it!

Thanks
 
J

jesed

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Hi Rosada

Actually, I hadn't take the course with Master Yu; so, I have not private teaching to share
happy.gif


If you want a book about the basic of "mathematical method", you could search for Master Raymond Lo's "I Ching Divination for Feng Shui and Destiny".

www.raymond-lo.com

Harmen Mesker had done a review of that book (well, Harmen didn't like it so much; but I think is a good "starting point").

Best wishes
 

lovi

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Jesed, does "Master Huan-Ching Ni comment about 23.6: the tree has only one fruit left; all the others fruits had been eaten by the people. If you eat this last fruit uneaten, you lose your last chance to revitalization. The higher one doesn't eat the last fuit; doesn't spoil the last chance for a new begining." mean that in my particular case, we should NOT respond to the board and should NOT try once again to resolve our issues? Gee, I was looking at it differently ...that it was a last chance to re-seed what had been Split Apart and thus move to the second hexagram. If, as in our case, we did NOT try to make amends or in Magdalena's case she did NOT make an effort to remain open to her stepson, would the second hexagram manifest? In the translation for the change line from a book I have (Understanding the I Ching by Tom Riseman...not sure how valid it is though), the last part states "the message is: understand and be sensitive to all experiences. The seeds of your future lie within the flow of recent events. Take them, but do not cling to the useless husks of previous ideals and ambitions." I'm thinking that means that one might try to make amends but to be successful must do so in a different way (or in our case, make a different offer that gives more consideration to the group rather than insisting things be our way all the way. Comments?
Thanks, Lovi
 

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