June 23rd, 2009, 07:40 AM
Did I just lose my best friend?
My best friend and I have been having some difficulty for a while now. Tonight it kind of exploded and I dont know what to do. I posted the questions I asked and my working through them; there is also background at the end if needed.
So what do I do about my friend? 59.3
Oy! Ok, vital energy thats damned up, his or mine or the friendship as a whole? dissolving devisive egotism, thats gotta be me. Interesting it talks of religious forces as thats what we're arguing about. He is one of the people whose destiny I see, and this is so not it. Setting a high goal for the will of the people, thats what Im trying to do, is that saying that that is what needs dispersing or what will bring us together? Ok, the image has all kinds of relations to us, but Im not sure who its speaking of. Im not comfortable discussing too much of what I see, but part of it, especially with him, is about a spiritual awakening, so that last line in Wilhelm could be talking about him or could be telling me I need to be more open to his current path.
then the line 3: Whose work are we talking about here? Im focusing on Wilhelm for now, will look at other later and hope you guys can add some as well. Disperse what the self gathers as a barrier against others, again him or me? Do i disperse my reaction to all this or does he disperse this path because it sets up barriers for him with others, which it definately does. Some of his "friends" will no longer talk to him (put friends in quotes because I dont that is being a good friend), and others shy away because he comes off like a whackjob. A great renunciation, him or me??? This is why I have such difficult, I understand the meaning, just not always who or what it refers to.
Ok, then asked, where do we go from here? 22.4
I got 22 for something else not long ago and read through the memorizing thread of Rosadas. I know her purpose was to help people memorize, but I also find it helpful when I need some insight. They put forth the idea that this line might be about someone who was shady or slick, but I dont think so in this case. I dont get the hex at all, nothing about this is shallow or surface stuff that I can see, but Im hoping the true friend who courts him is me. Oh wait, I commented recently that I felt like this belief was a mask he was wearing, one he was afraid I would remove to see the truth beneath. I have felt all along that something happened to cause this, that he is somehow hiding or escaping from something. Could it mean the belief itself is superficial or surface beauty, or something like that? Or am I just seeing what I want? Transcending the limits of space and time, again, relates to things we have discussed on our joint path.
What does the future hold for our friendship? 21
Yick! Couldnt just be 11 could it? Ok, my feeling is will be difficult, working through things like biting through leather, but not necessarily at an end. Im sure there is more advice here, but Im at a loss. I did look at the image as I was reminded to do recently on a single hex but I got nothing.
Background if you need it:
He and I were have always been on the same path, shared the same beliefs and views of the universe. Then, without warning, he suddenly did a complete 180. He joined some local nondenominational church and stopped talking to me other than occasional short emails. He didnt even tell me about the church thing, another friend did. Understand, though it is not my thing, I do not normally have a problem with people going to church. But this was so out of the blue, and that he didnt even talk to me about it. Add to that that I did a little investigating and its one of those, Ill say fringe to be nice, churches, and the people who run it are somewhat shady. I am not the only one of his friends who has been worried, especially since he refuses to discuss what caused the change, but as the closest to him, I was the one who has been trying to work on him. He has always been extremely logical and is highly intelligent, wellread, and wellspoken. It is rare that he loses an argument because he is so good at making his point, and he has always enjoyed a good debate. I decided to approach it from that standpoint, so I posted a thread on his facebook that started a discourse on one of his new beliefs. I researched for support for the point I was making, both biblical and other sources, and he just kept coming back with the same rhetoric. I continued to point out the fallacy in his arguments and give concrete support for mine. All of a sudden he posted he saw no merit in the discussion and removed it entirely. I then received a text from a mutual friend that they had talked and he had said he no longer wished to be part of our group and had no desire to see me in person, even if it was to tell me to go away. Our group was supposed to be getting together tomorrow, and I have not seen him since last summer. I was stunned. This is the same person who last summer told me that he wanted me to be happy but he liked being the most important man in my life and did not want to be replaced (conversation about my dating). We dont have that kind of relationship, he is much younger, and I dont know, its a spiritual connection, its just purer than that. I cant explain it, but its like we're two halves of the same whole. I formed by view of love from the movie What Dreams May Come, and I have always said about him, that there are a handful of people I would follow into hell to save, but he is the only one for whom I would stay. I think he is being illogical and pigheaded, but its my fault too. I get carried away when Im defending a position on an issue. Im reminded of the scene in the movie Nuts where Lavinsky is crossexamining the father and he keeps pushing until everything comes out, but then Claudia goes almost hysterical. Later in the hospital he tells her, "Im sorry, I got so caught up in being a gd lawyer." I know Im prone to that, but he has always been like that too. We have always taken it to the bitter end, but its always been in fun, with little jabs at each other like lets see what you got little girl, or c'mon pretty boy let's dance. I never expected this reaction from him, and Im at a loss. Oh, well I just got a text from our mutual friend that though he doesn want to talk to me now, when asked if he was ending the friendship he said he wasnt ready to do that, that he needed time to think. I did post an apology, but Im still worried. It isnt romantic or sexual, but in a very real way he is the love of my life. Its everything I was looking for all those obsessive years, just didnt know it until I found it. Anyway, would appreciate any further insight you may have to offer. Btw, most other posts seem so short, do I give too much info???
June 23rd, 2009, 01:02 PM
I believe line 59.3 is advising you to break your link with him, just let him go and do his own thing, time to go your own way.
June 24th, 2009, 04:37 AM
Never, never, never argue the counterpoint to someone's religion to try to "work on him" and dissuade him to your way of thinking.....you must know that
at first glance I thought what Wf said, as in you need to let him go........but on second thought, it seems Yi is talking about your stance in regard to him and that it suggests you dissolve the rigidity in your thinking about his beliefs and what church he is following. You may think you know his destiny and what is good for him, but in reality only he can know that. Like Byron Katie says "my favorite response is 'i don't know' " You dont know. and religion is a subject people get rigid about, pro and con. 59.3 changes to 57...a much better way to be with him. You can show your beliefs by example and influence others gently, gently. vehemently challenging his interests
on facebook no less is not a 57 type of action
i think 22.4 is a good sign for reconciliation.
June 24th, 2009, 06:08 AM
When a person goes down that religion path, there is no saving them, they are committed(some of them should be committed), so that is why I suggested you let him go with his new friend, Mr.god.
Otherwise the alternative is to see his point of view about everything, including his new friend, Mr.god and never disagree again, in this way you have your friend back and you also have a new friend, his friend, Mr.god, because these christians want everyone to join their heaven club.
So, on to line 22.4 which suggests that you let me think about your friendship and see if he can find room in his life for you and his new friend, Mr.god. He is obviously not a bad guy, just confused, but unfortunately for you the attraction of the dark side is more appealing at the moment.
June 24th, 2009, 09:35 AM
I was thinking about your 21 . . for me it doesn't look like you are to give up your friendship, but try to solve your problems . .
I see the lines of 21 as describing the way (i'll take them from top to bottom):
6: he won't listen to reason right now, this way is totally blocked (I find line 6 is often about talking like 31.6 or 61.6)
5: do not get tangled up in opinions with him, keep the middle ground, he sounds like a smart guy, obviously he feels he found sth, try to see all sides in this
4: whatever you/he need to work on is a heart thing, you have to be persistent but not excessive in order to dissolve whatever is keeping you apart
3: don't go at it impulsively, better bite your tongue rather than getting foul-mouthed
2: keep in mind that whenever you get too energetic in solving whatever lies there, you are inescapably missing some part of the issue
1: be extra mindful of the pitfalls that might lie ahead (I see the wooden shoes as an extremely careful way of proceeding -like the white mats of 28.1- they are heavy and hard to walk with but they do give you stronger feet and protect you from what you might encounter)
hope this is helpful and you'll find your way back into your friendship!!
and don't worry about disclosing details -it's just a matter of personal preference
June 28th, 2009, 09:34 AM
Thanks for your responses, have not been on for a few days, been thinking and dealing with other issues, posted different thread. But I could not walk away from. #1 Im too connected to him and #2 I made him a promise that Id always be there. He has been abandoned by every woman who ever entered his life, from his mother to several of his fathers girlfriends growing up (would get close to them and they would leave), stepmother who eventually left and had no more to do with him, to several relationships not working out. I promised I would always be there, no matter what. Even if he walked away, he could walk back at any time. I did msg him to say that if he needed time I understood, but that I would always be his friend. He can choose to stop being mine, I will never stop being his. I just have to figure out how to work with the religion thing. It wouldnt be so hard if he hadnt changed so much, and it wasnt so fanatical. I seriously worry that he has been brain washed. He has always pursued the spiritual, the more mystical if you will. He is also denying parts of who he is, seeing them as evil now. And there are times when I think he sees me as evil.
Willowfox, you said I am attracted to the darker side at the moment. Im curious as to what made you say that, or do you mean that is how he sees it?
Rodaki, I like your analysis of 21 and how it fits, but Im curous as to your process. If I get an unchanging hex, I dont even look at the lines. Am I making a mistake in that?
June 28th, 2009, 12:23 PM
a mistake? no, not at all. I myself don't always use the same approach to understand readings. Sometimes answers are crystal clear even without going to the texts, just by calling forth private associations of meanings.
So I guess it's a matter of how clear the answer sounds or not -if it is, then I go no further, if it isn't, I start digging any way possible -I'll even use Chris Lofting's XORing method and it does make sense times . .
It's also what Willowfox said to another querent here about specifically 21 unchanging: the Yi will not command things, just show them . . 21 is a tough one, it is always up to us to decide if the situation is worth all the hard work . . . for me, if I know I am prepared to give it a shot, I have to find more details about how, so I try to see all sides of the hex. including what the lines describe, read and research about it and if I still don't get it, maybe ask Yi specific questions about possible ways to proceed.
. . oh but I'm pretty sure you know all these already, you've been at it longer than I have
wish you all the luck!
June 28th, 2009, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by twilightshadow
a misunderstanding. I meant that your friend was attracted to the dark side with his fanatical religious ideas, certainly not you.
And as for Hex 21, just read judgement and image as the lines do not belong in your answer. Hex 21is also about judging another and giving the appropriate punishment.
June 28th, 2009, 12:44 PM
June 28th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yes, of course.
Originally Posted by rodaki