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Thread: Are hexagrams 41 and 58,2 negative?

  1. #1

    Default Are hexagrams 41 and 58,2 negative?

    Hello,

    I asked:
    Why didn't he answer me? 14,3,4 > 41
    Is he going to answer me next week? 58,2 > 17

    Here are my questions:
    1. Is hexagram 41 necessarily negative? How should I interpret it?
    2. Is line 2 in hexagram 58 negative as well? I found various interpretations which left me confused.

    58, line 2(Richard Wilhelm): "We often find ourselves associating with inferior people in whose company we are tempted by pleasures that are inappropriate for the superior man. To participate in such pleasures would certainly bring remorse, for a superior man can find no real satisfaction in low pleasures. When, recognizing this, a man does not permit his will to swerve, so that he does not find such ways agreeable, not even dubious companions will venture to proffer any base pleasures, because he would not enjoy them. Thus every cause for regret is removed."

    58, line 2 (Robert G. Benson): "He is sought out by his leader to share himself, and he loyally agrees. After doing this, his doubts and regrets will pass, and he will benefits. Although he could refuse to share, he has ties of loyalty that bind him to his leader. His leader now asks for his commitment and cooperation, so he places his trust in his leader and agrees to share. Later, he finds that following his leader's request does bring to him, and his doubts and regrets fade. He may be asked to do something he wouldn't otherwise do, but he agrees anyway, hoping for the best."


    Thanks,
    Lyrandra

  2. #2
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    Your first answer suggests that he was busy and Hex 41 suggests that he was in no mood to reply, he was restraining himself from making a regrettable blunder.

    Look at Hex 41 and read the commentary, it is not negative for him. To decrease communications by not replying due to anger perhaps.


    Your 2nd answer suggests that he feels that it is wrong to continue to associate with you, therefore it seems that he will not contact you next week.

    And as for Benson's translation it sounds like fourth-hand nonsense that he made up while under the influence of alcohol.

  3. #3

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    Hello,

    Thank you for your answer. Could he have not replied because of something else than anger? I told him my feelings for him. I don't see why he would be angry about it. But I'm wondering if maybe he doesn't know what to say or he doesn't know what he feels or he needs to think about it before replying. But my second answer suggests that he will not reply and I can see why with the situation we are in.

    I asked:
    Will he tell me what he thinks of me at some point? 55 > 55
    Why doesn't he just tell me that he doesn't want to know anything about me? 33,2,4 > 57

    Now, how do I interpret 33,3,4?

    33, line 3: "While the superior men retreat and the inferior press after them, the inferior man represented here holds on so firmly and tightly to the superior men that the latter cannot shake him off. And because he is in quest of what is right and so strong in purpose, he reaches his goal. Thus the line confirms what is said in the Judgment: In what is small – here equivalent to in the inferior man – perseverance furthers."

    Who's holding tight to who? Him or me?

    33, line 4: "In retreating the superior man is intent on taking his departure willingly and in all friendliness. He easily adjusts his mind to retreat, because in retreating he does not have to do violence to his convictions. The only one who suffers is the inferior man from whom he retreats, who will degenerate when deprived of the guidance of the superior man."

    In retreating he does not have to do violence to his convictions? What kind of convictions?
    Last edited by lyrandra; August 29th, 2009 at 01:48 PM.

  4. #4
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    Will he tell me what he thinks of me at some point? 55 > 55

    Yes, he will indeed say what he thinks about you sooner or later.

    Why doesn't he just tell me that he doesn't want to know anything about me? 33,2,4 > 57

    Line 33.2 suggests that you are the one clinging to him while he is trying to back away as he only wishes to do the right thing.

    Line 33.4 again suggests that he is trying to retreat away from you without causing any arguments simply by saying nothing. "Lest said quickest mended".

    Hex 57 perhaps it is what is called as a "gentle" let down. But it gives him time slowly formulate a reply.

  5. #5

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    Hello,

    Thanks again. Your answers make more sense than what I had in mind as an interpretation. It's clear that "the superior man" is him and "the inferior man" is me and that it is somehow wrong to be associated with me for some reasons.

    I'll let things the way they are for now and "retreat" in the meantime.

    Thanks,
    Lyrandra

  6. #6
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    Maybe the two of you really live in two different worlds and don't have much in common to base a long-term relationship on -- and he has realized this sooner than you have, lyrandra.

    Answers would be clearer to you if you could ask them from your own point of view instead of asking them from the point of view of the other person.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrandra View Post
    Is hexagram 41 necessarily negative? How should I interpret it?
    Lyrandra
    41 means a decrease of involvement. It is not negative. Often it is very necessary to decrease involvement for one reason or another.

    Regarding 58.2, yes, that one can be a real puzzler. I got this line once, and, tell you the truth, I was wondering about it for a long time. In other words, I don't know. If in doubt, do not act.

    Some of the confusion about who is the Superior Man and who is the Inferior Man comes about because you are asking your questions the wrong way around. Better to ask what attitude you might take to him. That would give you a clearer direction. We are all responsible for our own state of mind, but often do not know it. Why ask about another person's mind when we don't even know our own minds?

  8. #8

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    Hello Ginnie,

    Thank you for your reading. You are write when you say that maybe I do not ask the right questions. It might give me more insight to ask a question from my point of view. I absolutely agree. I'm surprised he didn't answer me. I wasn't expected anything, but I was at least expecting an answer from him. I don't mind if it is negative, if he doesn't feel anything for me or if he needs to think about it. I just wanted a little answer, either "I'm sorry, I need to think about it" or "I'm flattered, but I don't feel anything for you and it needs to stop now."

    That is why I asked all these questions from his point of view. I don't understand and I want to understand. Why?... Why can't he just answer me something, even if it is negative? I would know where to stand. But his silence speaks for itself... I am disapointed. I thought he would at least answer a little something. I just feel stupid now, like I made a fool of myself.

    I'll try to ask what attitude to have towards him from now on.

    Thank you,
    Lyrandra

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrandra View Post
    I don't understand and I want to understand. Why?... Why can't he just answer me something, even if it is negative?

    I'll try to ask what attitude to have towards him from now on. Lyrandra
    Of course you feel disappointed.

    Bless him and let the situation go . . . Maybe you really need a man who is more chatty and able to verbalize what's in his heart and in his mind. Don't let your thoughts linger too much on this one, the disappointing, noncommunicative type.

  10. #10

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    That's what I'll do. I think I need to ask myself if that's what I really want. I tried to have some insight from the IC and got the following:

    What attitude should I have towards him from now on? 61.1.4.5 > 64
    How should I act with him from now on? 4.2 > 23

    Lyrandra

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