Good evening everyone!

First off I must compliment the regulars of this forum. The discussions you start and the contributions you make - which I've recently become an eager reader of - are absolutely fascinating in their different tones and angles. I'm really impressed with the quality of the interventions, and the willingness to share knowledge and provide support.

I'm hoping some of you will want to shed some light on three readings I made today, after being inspired by other discussions and by Hilary's suggestions on how to pose questions (thanks!). The purpose is to get a better understanding of a situation I started the following thread about a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=9944

In brief, some time ago I started a relationship with an online friend who had shown what appeared to be serious interest in me. Immediately after this start, I had to leave for a long business trip. He turned cold instantly, which led me to end the relationship. I heard from him only once since. I still haven't been able to understand what caused his sudden change of mind.

I asked:

1) How did things get the way they are?
59.6 > 29

2) What is the real issue here? The core of the matter?
6.1,3 > 1

3) What does this person want from me (if anything)?
12.1,5 > 21

I had a look at the hexagrams / lines meanings on various sources, and also searched for similar combinations in other discussions, but I must admit I'm totally lost! Any clarification will be highly appreciated. :bows:

Thanks,
Cris

1) How did things get the way they are?
59.6 > 29

***This line suggests anger, like heavy anger and hence the need to withdraw before something of a nasty nature happens. Obviously your friend was annoyed by you in some way and perhaps it had to do with you travelling.

2) What is the real issue here? The core of the matter?
6.1,3 > 1

Again, it suggests some type of conflict going on within him, anger. I wonder if he suspect that you had another "friend" elsewhere, as there seems to be a hint of possessiveness and jealousy.

3) What does this person want from me (if anything)?
12.1,5 > 21

Perhaps he wanted your undivided attention, to possessively hold on to you.

What is going on here 59.6 > 29
What a literal description of what happened! ”Dispersing one's blood. Departing, being far, going away, no fault". You cut the tie by going far away. But then Yi says 'no fault'. So it seems nothing wrong happened. Could it be that Yi does not think he is the right guy for you? If he turns away from you like this, he might not be very reliable in the long run either.

The core of the matter
6.1 Do not perpetuate an affair. Well… seems rather clear, especially together with 59.6
6.3 is it possible that you have an ideal of how a relationship should be, without really looking how it actually is? Seeing it more positive or strong than it is.

What does this person want from me (if anything)? 12.1,5 > 21
Not easy, this one. I think Willowfox is right, possessively hold on to you.

heylise said:

What does this person want from me (if anything)? 12.1,5 > 21
Not easy, this one. I think Willowfox is right, possessively hold on to you.

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I can't see why Biting through/Stagnation means he wants to 'possessively hold on' to her why would it mean that ?

trojan said:

I can't see why Biting through/Stagnation means he wants to 'possessively hold on' to her why would it mean that ?

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I don't get that either. What I see in

3) What does this person want from me (if anything)?
12.1,5 > 21

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He doesn't want anything from you. There's nothing he can do. You go your way, he bites through the obstacle and chooses to go his way.

Thats how i saw it. It seemed consistent with all the answers received so far Cris, including the ones you linked to in the first post...its a good idea to let this drop i think, i mean drop thinking about it. Thats how i saw the 6.1.3

meng said:

He doesn't want anything from you. There's nothing he can do. You go your way, he bites through the obstacle and chooses to go his way.

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Ah - better interpretation!

WillowFox, Heylise, Trojan, Meng:

A sincere thank you to each of you for taking time to help me understand my readings! It’s great to see you in this thread, and I truly appreciate the different insights you have provided. WillowFox’s input got me thinking all day: I had to go back to the different translations and commentaries to try to clarify the IC message in the light of her interpretation. I had just finished drafting a detailed response, when I saw the other replies so here I am starting over...

WillowFox,
thanks so much for your promptness! Your answer was both surprising and inspiring. The reference to anger in general, and specifically due to my departure, is really an excellent point. I was puzzled by the hint of jealousy, as he never showed it. It could anyway well be the case – he has a very closed up, defensive personality. Can I ask you to help me understand what hexagram / line indicated this? Similarly I did not manage to put the interpretation of my third reading into perspective: the question was aiming at describing the present (what he wants now), and I wonder whether to possess me would still be his desire under the current circumstances?

Heylise,
great insight! Yes, it looks like I could take the Yi’s response quite literally here… and as you can imagine, your observation about his unreliability has been on my mind for the past couple of months. As for line 6.3, your intuition is correct: from the way it started, I really was under the impression this relationship would be an important one…

Meng,
I was really stuck with 12 > 21. Your interpretation makes a lot of sense and sounds very realistic, seeing how things have developed.

Trojan,
I totally agree: the Yi appears to be sending consistent messages. It was and is my intention to drop this matter as you suggest, like WillowFox did after my initial reading. However, the way he behaved was really inexplicable (at least to me), and I still struggle to understand what happened. The main purpose of these readings was just to try and gather a better comprehension of events. At the moment I’m not sure I managed to… I’ll probably have to let the responses settle inside of me to see them through.

Once again I really appreciate your feedback. :bows: I hope I’ll be able to give back my contribution one day!

Nighty,
Cris

Someone who can receive four different outlooks constructively. Cris, that's inspiring. :bows:

Thanks Meng!

Hey WillowFox,
mind answering my couple of questions on your interpretation? It would be really helpful! :bows:

cris said:

WillowFox,
thanks so much for your promptness! Your answer was both surprising and inspiring. The reference to anger in general, and specifically due to my departure, is really an excellent point. I was puzzled by the hint of jealousy, as he never showed it. It could anyway well be the case – he has a very closed up, defensive personality. Can I ask you to help me understand what hexagram / line indicated this? Similarly I did not manage to put the interpretation of my third reading into perspective: the question was aiming at describing the present (what he wants now), and I wonder whether to possess me would still be his desire under the current circumstances?

Click to expand...

2) What is the real issue here? The core of the matter?
6.1,3 > 1

Here we have conflict and passion mixed together, the man has "issues', and line 6.3 suggests that he feels bent out of shape by your "travels" as it seems as he doesn't like the thought of you being fancy free, hence the idea of jealousy and possessiveness. He found you and wanted to keep you but your lifestyle is not stationary for a collector to stand and stare, you are a free spirit and some men certainly don't like the idea of that.

Hex 1 is fire, passion and anger, all these things use energy, so a passionate man can soon become an angry man when projects don't go his way.

Thanks so much for your explanation, WillowFox. :bows: It helps me put Hex. 1 (which I wondered about...) into the right perspective.

I'm still unclear about your insight on my third reading:

3) What does this person want from me (if anything)?
12.1,5 > 21

Perhaps he wanted your undivided attention, to possessively hold on to you.

How do the hexagrams / lines indicate this? Could your interpretation reflect his current desire?

cris said:

I'm still unclear about your insight on my third reading:

3) What does this person want from me (if anything)?
12.1,5 > 21

Perhaps he wanted your undivided attention, to possessively hold on to you.

How do the hexagrams / lines indicate this? Could your interpretation reflect his current desire?

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Line 12.1 suggests that this man has selected you to be his partner, he is trying to entice you to follow him.

Line 12.5 Suggests he feels that he is finally getting somewhere with you, things are growing but so to is insecurity, he was starting to doubt his ability to hold on to you, fear of failure was creeping into his mind.

So, both these lines suggest a need for you to listen to him, to follow him as you are his "selected" one but then doubt and fear enter the equation, and that made him angry when you left as you were taking away his prize possession and his failure was confirmed, at least in his head. He wanted you then.

Hex 21 He wanted to stop you going but obviously couldn't and then felt that you had broken some unspoken rule and needed to be punished, little knowing at the time that he himself would end up the loser and you would be free.

I think a jealous person who has 'selected you to be his partner' would be in touch rather than disappear and not contact you. Not contacting or even responding to someone to 'punish' them because you had selected them as your partner seem a mighty maladaptive and unusual way of going about things

Maybe you should ask yourself what you want to think about why he disappeared..then when you have explored what you would most like to think about his reasons you would have more chance of seeing the readings objectively...

cris said:

WillowFox, Heylise, Trojan, Meng:


Trojan,
I totally agree: the Yi appears to be sending consistent messages. It was and is my intention to drop this matter as you suggest, like WillowFox did after my initial reading. However, the way he behaved was really inexplicable (at least to me), and I still struggle to understand what happened. The main purpose of these readings was just to try and gather a better comprehension of events. At the moment I’m not sure I managed to… I’ll probably have to let the responses settle inside of me to see them through.



Nighty,
Cris

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How will you ever know for sure by asking the Yi why he did what he did...you won't without talking to him (sorry broken record). I think you answer was wholly given in the thread you first linked to.

Of course its natural you would dwell on why what happened happened but i don't think you'll get anywhere by trying to get inside his head via the I Ching (another broken record).....

cris said:

2) What is the real issue here? The core of the matter?
6.1,3 > 1

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Cris, if you're open to another input on this one, I think the "real issue" in this case is that it is you who are undecided what to make of the whole situation, i.e. your work/travel vs your fondness of this guy.

I read line 1 as showing that it still can be ok; maybe together with you two, or with each choosing to go your own way. "If you don't perpetuate the affair" (it could mean love affair or the affair of this conflict), there is still good in store for you, if you drop the matter.

I read line 3 to mean: keep it real, and don't be goal oriented about making this thing work, or making sure it doesn't work; that's where the conflict likely originates in the first place. Give heaven (1) a chance to do its thing.

Hello everyone! I’m "on the road again" – in spite of the volcano, on which by the way I should start another, “lighter” thread soon! – and this gave me quite some time to think about the new inputs you guys have given. I would hate to sound rhetorical, but I sincerely appreciate your attention and willingness to help.

WillowFox,
thanks for the further details on your interpretation! I have to say the viewpoint you have provided is striking. Not even once in the past few months have I seen things in this light – nonetheless, all the different aspects you mention bring back specific memories, and do indeed resonate. I am under the impression the IC is only a means to you to activate your intuition. Am I right?

Trojan,
I understand your point. It is my inclination to rely on open, direct communication, especially in the presence of a conflict (so if you’re a broken record, it makes two of us!). I wish I could ask the guy in question to explain what happened; unfortunately I doubt he would be willing to open up. Even the Yi confirmed this, indicating not to make any move in the first reading. That reading however did not offer any insight as to why things had gone wrong. That’s what I was trying to achieve with the following three, making sure I’d ask appropriate questions (I used the ones suggested on this website).
Very synchronistically, shortly before reading your last post I had gone through an e-book available in the extras section (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/members/bestofanswers.pdf). One of the question posed to Hilary is “Can the I Ching tell me how he feels?”. Here’s her answer in a nutshell: “The oracle can offer rare and precious insights into how another person feels. (…) The I Ching (…) will show you the truth about the inner dynamics of a relationship”. Not as good as the involved person speaking his mind, but the only viable resource at the mo...

Meng,
it's great that you've come up with a new "variation" after the first input. There really are numerous layers of truth in the same reading. Your take stands – there definitely is a conflict inside of me about this whole matter. However, assuming the message in the reading you refer to is in terms of possibility (6.1,3 “it can still be ok”), how to “reconcile” it to the last one (12.1,5)? And, just to add a further factor of complexity, how to combine this last reading with the second I shared in my first thread (Hex. 24.0 to “Can I expect him to contact me”)?

Once again big :bows: to each of you. All the perspectives you have brought, as different and even contradictory as they appear, are equally valuable - and, at some level, "true".

Night
Cris

cris said:

Meng,
it's great that you've come up with a new "variation" after the first input. There really are numerous layers of truth in the same reading. Your take stands – there definitely is a conflict inside of me about this whole matter. However, assuming the message in the reading you refer to is in terms of possibility (6.1,3 “it can still be ok”), how to “reconcile” it to the last one (12.1,5)? And, just to add a further factor of complexity, how to combine this last reading with the second I shared in my first thread (Hex. 24.0 to “Can I expect him to contact me”)?

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I haven't read your 24 thread, but 24 is like 6, in that you can apply it inwardly or outwardly. You can physically return to each other, or you can return to yourself. I tend to think the latter is more important, because if you do return to each other, you then do so for the right reasons.

6.1 "it can still be ok" means ok either way... that's a way to settle a minor conflict, before it grows to be very much more.

12.1 has a similar type of early detachment from [the effects of] the separation.There is a mutual withdrawal. Whether you interpret this as referring to you and he, or to your own conflict over the matter, I leave to your discretion. I again lean toward applying it inwardly first; then whatever happens, your fate is securely tied to line 5's strong mulberry shoots. That means making provisions for yourself, either way.

Oh, for 6.3, I'm going to quote Wilhelm's commentary, as I think it pretty well sums up my interpretation of the rest.

"This is a warning of the danger that goes with an expansive disposition. Only that which has been honestly acquired through merit remains a permanent possession. It can happen that such a possession may be contested, but since it's really one's own, one can't be robbed of it. Whatever a man possesses through the strength of his own nature can't be lost."

cris said:

I am under the impression the IC is only a means to you to activate your intuition. Am I right?

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Basically the answer is yes, the IC, tarot cards and sometimes astrology provide that "doorway", they are "tools".

WF, I thought as much. Indeed you are a "fortune teller".

Meng, just for the sake of IC interpretation, I was reading your last posts on this thread and was suddenly struck by another applicable way of interpreting line 6.3, which could be summarised as "unmet expectations". One of the sources of the conflict between me and this guy was his personality being (or maybe appearing...) very different in real life than how it comes across online and on the phone. This had caused me a lot of doubt and confusion. It looks like my affection could have not been a "permanent possession" since it was not grounded on "the strength of his own nature".
Needless to say, the reverse could be true as well (my being different than what he was expecting).

All this is being so very useful to me. It's making me consider this matter from many angles I had not thought of before, and it's making me learn a bit about the IC and its "multi-layered" oracles. I'm so grateful this community exists and is so open to share!

Have a great Sunday!
Cris

Hi Cris,

Interesting way to look at it. The object of receiving conflict is to resolve it, and your way of examining from different angles is "alert and central", intelligently and openly considering all factors. Good call.

I have a young (to me) female friend, whose emails I would never guess to be from the same person that I know in person. I can't say one is real and one isn't because they both come from the same person. Relating it to 6.3, I don't feel as though I really know her or can rely on her because her personality is inconsistent. This sounds quite a bit like what you're saying.