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17.4.6 > 42 Following Increase?

mariah kaze

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My question was : "what excess am I guilty of regarding X?''

My daily quest has led me here, never mind all the background except to say that all my questions have been focused today on my own course of self-improvement which has pointed to some sort of false beliefs being at the core of my thinking that I am uncovering and dispelling one by one. The idea of excess has come up several times hence the question regarding a person with whom I have recently had conflict so I am scratching my head a bit over this answer. I at first thought this was a positive answer to a negative question but .... HELP!

I'm using Thomas Cleary today:
Following is greatly developmental and beneficial if correct - following means going along - self and others in accord - acting to the delight of others ... seeking feeling through essence. Changing to 42. Increase: Augmentation and enhancement. Wind & Thunder Increase. Thus do superior people take to good when they see it, and correct whatever faults they have.

4. Following has gain. Even if right, it is inauspicious. Truthfully remaining on the path, using understanding, what blame is there?

Excessive strength is inauspicious - (being too adamant?) - not knowing when to advance and when to retreat, not bringing on blame and being blameless oneself - this is the following of strength trusting the Tao.

6. Binding and tying up; the King sacrifices on west mountain.

When one is foolish and ignorant and is compulsive and whimsical, unable to first go and follow others while wanting others to follow oneself, this is like binding and tying - forced seeking and forced joining - an excess of false ideas.

line 4 means using one's spiritual energy improperly?

line 6 - an excess of false ideas

I think line 4 refers to me and line six to X but I started out asking how my beliefs are hindering my growth and where I should concentrate my self-development and I wound up right back at square one.

Master: Please whack me! :brickwall:
 

mariah kaze

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But am I right?

Well, not exactly but close. The question was about a friend that I have known since we were children. It is not I who have been obsessed. She was recently diagnosed as OCD and is under medical care at the moment and it's interesting that you picked up on *that*. She has attempted to contact me several times but her therapist as well as mine agree that she and I do not have a healthy relationship and that it is best for the time being that she remain hospitalized without visitors. The answer to the question is still confusing to me but I think that one thing that caused conflict is that I insisted she get professional help and she insisted she did not need it. It turns out that in fact she did, but I seem to be the focus of her resentment over where she is now because I did actively intervene and force the issue. A condition of excess existed on both sides.

I was looking at my part in it, trying to prepare to go visit her and I now think that even though it caused a large rift between us, I acted with her best interests in mind when I called the paramedics and they carted her away. I've been ignoring her email rants since then but I've missed her company and am prepared to visit her when she''s able. I think that Hex 17 was simply telling me that the path meanders on but I don't get line 6 at all here. So, I was asking what you saw that I am missing about my part in it?
 

charly

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My question was : "what excess am I guilty of regarding X?''
...
I'm using Thomas Cleary today:
6. Binding and tying up; the King sacrifices on west mountain.

When one is foolish and ignorant and is compulsive and whimsical, unable to first go and follow others while wanting others to follow oneself, this is like binding and tying - forced seeking and forced joining - an excess of false ideas.
...
line 6 - an excess of false ideas

...
Maria:
Might be of your interest to see the version of 17.6 posted here
, in general I believe that the Changes almost always speak to ourselves and about ourselves, there I read the line as HOW TO DO A FOLLOW UP.
--
I don´t know if this idea fits to your case. I need more information, say, for better understanding your consult... are you always excessive? are you often guilty? is it possible to be excessive without being guilty?

I cannot imagine nothing about somebody named X, except Malcom X or, maybe, Mr. X, but I don´t believe the Changes speak of him.

Yours,

Charly

P.D.:
Why don´t try with LiSe insted of Cleary?
Ch.
 

mariah kaze

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Maria:
Might be of your interest to see the version of 17.6 posted here , in general I believe that the Changes almost always speak to ourselves and about ourselves, there I read the line as HOW TO DO A FOLLOW UP.
--
I don´t know if this idea fits to your case. I need more information, say, for better understanding your consult... are you always excessive? are you often guilty? is it possible to be excessive without being guilty?

I cannot imagine nothing about somebody named X, except Malcom X or, maybe, Mr. X, but I don´t believe the Changes speak of him.

Yours,

Charly

P.D.:
Why don´t try with LiSe insted of Cleary?
Ch.

Thank you Charly! I can see now that this is exactly correct. Follow-up indeed. The excess of false ideas had me stumped. I was wondering if all the books I have around about shamanism and witchcraft *were* somehow influencing me :rofl:

No, this is about a female friend who has had some severe psychiatric problems for which she is now being treated and I do think the I Ching is talking about some of those ideas permeating our relationship negatively. About a year ago, right after her mother died, she suddenly became "weird". We all thought it would pass but instead, it recently escalated to a suicide attempt and me calling the paramedics, her being admitted to the local psych unit and her being involuntarily committed for 90 days. I have felt guilty at times over having to have been so harsh with her and insisting that she go against her will.

Am I given to excess .... not usually. Not as a habit. I don't drink, don't use drugs, don't hang out with people who do. Don't clean my house with a tooth brush (which X is known to do). I go to work, come home and read most days. I'll occasionally binge on chocolate but other than that, I'm a pretty moderate and conservative type - pretty dull, really :)

I think if I have an excess it would be that I'll discover something I want to know more about I'll collect information from a variety of sources and compare them - I might go through intensive (single-minded) studies until I've exhausted my curiosity and then my interests will turn elsewhere. There are times when I worry and that could be an excess. I study religions of the world, history, I read anthropology journals and psychology journals. I try out a new theory or idea and talk about some of it with this fiend. She is of the opinion that I don't know what to believe because I don't settle on a religious practice from anything I read. Because this friend is so touchy about religion (and that I must be doing it WRONG) she and I are unable to discuss what I believe at all.

Haven't heard of Lise but will look at the library. My budget doesn't allow me to purchase new right now but I will consider other translations certainly. Like you, I thought the Yi was talking to me about me and my concern over my friends' recovery. I know I did the right thing for her and she's going to have to do her own work to recover. As for aberrant ideas, I think you guys will point them out to me as we go :bows:

Thanks again.
 

arabella

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I find that, for emotionally tangled situations, LiSe is the best because she is so able to express the nuance of what makes people and relationships tick and at the same time be practical about life's basics, the strengths you must cultivate, the fundamentals you must address to stay balanced. That's probably a basis for Wilhelm, and others, but LiSe is a woman, a woman of today who speaks in direct language which brings an immediate mental image to mind, and to me it makes ALL the difference.
 

mariah kaze

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I find that, for emotionally tangled situations, LiSe is the best because she is so able to express the nuance of what makes people and relationships tick and at the same time be practical about life's basics, the strengths you must cultivate, the fundamentals you must address to stay balanced. That's probably a basis for Wilhelm, and others, but LiSe is a woman, a woman of today who speaks in direct language which brings an immediate mental image to mind, and to me it makes ALL the difference.

Have poked around on that site and found some useful things to go on. Thanks!
 

elllybellly

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I find that, for emotionally tangled situations, LiSe is the best because she is so able to express the nuance of what makes people and relationships tick and at the same time be practical about life's basics, the strengths you must cultivate, the fundamentals you must address to stay balanced. That's probably a basis for Wilhelm, and others, but LiSe is a woman, a woman of today who speaks in direct language which brings an immediate mental image to mind, and to me it makes ALL the difference.
Kween
 

Trojina

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This is a 2010 thread, a 12 year old thread and you have added the word 'kween' ? I am baffled.

Doing this, bringing a very old thread to the top means others can think it's current and then they may waste their time answering as if it were.

It helps if you really want to add to an old thread to alert people by saying 'This is an old thread but I just wanted to say.. xyz.... '. The strange thing here though is you haven't said anything. A nonsense word? A deliberate mispelling of 'queen' ?
 
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