Hi all. I asked yi about a person I am currently having issues with...the exact question was whether or not this person is a malignant narcissist. I know that the i ching does not really respond well to yes/no questions....but I found the response surprising.

48.1>5 which describes a person that no one bothers with due to their own lack of effort to be a member of society.

Would you consider this an affirmation of my suspicions?

Thank you in advance.

Namaste!

Maybe the person is not much malignant, but is certainly stuck in his or her own muck, and bogged down in terms of being useful in any way. Maybe more depressed. Also, I think 48.1 refers to a need to establish boundaries (the walls of the well), to create a useful well with clear healthy water.
What is not present in this line is any meanness, or ill intent.

There's always a question about what issue, or who, the IC is addressing in responses. "Drinking the mud at the bottom of the well" should give a bit of pause... Who is doing this?

Wing: You rely too much on your own opnion and perceptions and therefore have little to offer others in the way of insight or nourishment...

Huang: "An unproductive, unnourishing situation"

Chih-hsu: "Mud in the well is not drunk. There are no animals at an abandoned well.... this is buddhahood as a mere ideal."

Wilhelm-Baynes: "If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in mud. Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He who throws himself away is no longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him any more."

Anthony: "... we should not dwell on the unpleasant situation we have had to endure; it is past; we should let go and go on our own way. To concentrate on negatives is to drink from the well."

LiSe: "Birds don't drink stale water, people don't listen to stale knowledge. Not the knowledge revealed decides about the value of wisdom, but the life it contains and passes on."

Resultant 5 is about Waiting in the correct attitude, which will empower creative change. So... Not enough details of the situation for me to assess who this cast is describing, but a suggestion that the only way to improve the situation is in the work that you do -- don't dwell on externals and trivialities, don't get locked into rigid expectations of what someone else should or will do, don't try to force change but rather let change find you....

niso'kawaiksi

Thank you.
This person could very well be depressed. they have pretty much turned their back on society and instead, only socialize through indirect mediums, such as the internet. Another friend of mine had called the person I asked yi about a "malignant narcissist" because this person only takes and never gives, he seems to lack empathy for others and rarely goes out of his way to help anyone.

I wasn't sure and out of curiosity asked the i ching because it does offer valuable insight.

Perhaps the 48.1 is also saying that this friendship with this person is not too beneficial for me?

By definition, malignant narcissists rarely get depressed.

the symbol of the well suggests interaction, a place to go for refreshing mourishment. and sometimes the well is within us. the line 1 might well be an apt description for a m. narcissist, since his well is muddy, it is toxic to others, no re-freshing interchange can be found there. and his water is stale because his style is not to give and receive, and thus he remains alone ultimately, a one man show

that's actually the way i interpreted it, bamboo. i asked if this person is capable of love and got 6.2>12 in response. it is seeming like this person could very well be incapable of basic human emotions. sad.

These interpretations are possible, of course, but so is the likeliness that Yi is addressing the "issues" you are having with this person, rather than with the person himself, or for that matter, with yourself. Yi will often speak to the one asking such kinds of questions about classifying another's mental or personality disorders. 6.2 confirms this likeliness to me, that your original answer speaks to the conflict. It's as if the conflict itself lacks redeeming value, and the waters there are stagnant (12).

5 would say to me, do not rush to conclusions, take time to smell the roses, which smells better than waiting and wading in mud.

sooo said:

These interpretations are possible, of course, but so is the likeliness that Yi is addressing the "issues" you are having with this person, rather than with the person himself, or for that matter, with yourself. Yi will often speak to the one asking such kinds of questions about classifying another's mental or personality disorders. 6.2 confirms this likeliness to me, that your original answer speaks to the conflict. It's as if the conflict itself lacks redeeming value, and the waters there are stagnant (12).

5 would say to me, do not rush to conclusions, take time to smell the roses, which smells better than waiting and wading in mud.

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Yes, that was pretty much my first thought. I've often had 48.1 when the Yi has been showing me that I have been missing the point somewhat. It can sometimes be quite a shock! lol.

48 seems to be about the source of knowledge as well as our points of reference in terms of gaining a wider or higher perspective.

Maybe this issue is not something that needs to be picked over and perhaps not all the information regarding this unhappy individual is objective....Therefore, your own questions regarding it are likely to be off centre. In which case, the Yi is far more likely to throw the question back at you for self-reflection.

Anyhow, that's just another possibility....

Ah, okay, I can see how that would be a possibility. Perhaps the muddy well is my skewed perception of the situation...or yi's way of saying my question lacks depth?

It's also interesting to note that I have asked yi about this person before and gotten 48.1 about his at least 3 times. Maybe there is something more to the situation that I don't know about.

Okay. I was really hoping that this person wasn't that bad off. I know these reading seem mean spirited but really, I was concerned and wanted to see if there was more to it than what I perceive and what my other friend was telling me.

Maybe this is just a bad time for this individual and he will eventually get better. Hate to think of anyone being that miserable for an extended period of time.

Thank you, everyone for your input.

Not to beat a topic into the ground, but, I asked if this person is capable of forming loving healthy bonds with others and got 39.1.4>49

Seems to validate Sooo's and Topal's opinions...I think. My interpretations have been either hit or miss lately...having trouble weaving the lines and hexes together to see the full tapestry of the response and how it gibes with the question.

Hi Chuckles,

Usually I've found the Yi's council or course adjustment deals with the course itself. My opinion was that the first answer applied to the conflict, not to you personally, nor to your question, though those too are worth consideration, just as applying the answer to this other person is worth consideration. Ultimately, it's your course, your dao, and your interpretation that matters. :bows:

Thank you. Lately, I have been pretty good at putting myself into the hexes and moving lines to see how they apply to the situation. Kind of lost my mojo this past week due to a severe head cold. Seems to made meditating a bit more difficult

chucklesthegirl said:

that's actually the way i interpreted it, bamboo wall. i asked if this person is capable of love and got 6.2>12 in response. Bamboo wall is seeming like this person could very well be incapable of basic human emotions. sad.

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Thank you for this information...

Theres a 'thanks' button you can simply click on. It isn't helpful jusr tacking a message on to an 11 year old thread. Unless you are a robot spam which is possible in which case there is no point me addressing you.

Trojina said:

Theres a 'thanks' button you can simply click on. It isn't helpful jusr tacking a message on to an 11 year old thread. Unless you are a robot spam which is possible in which case there is no point me addressing you.

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Soryy for this... I am not a bot...