Steve Marshall introduced me to Nigel Richmond’s Language of the Lines: The I Ching Oracle. His interpretation of line development as movement from potential to activity was quite revealing. I do not know whether this is something he has drawn from the text or his own interpretation.

I understand there is controversy over which came first Trigrams or Hexagrams. I am not wanting to stir that pot.

My question regards Trigrams as a part of Hexagrams.

I notice writers divide the Hexagram differently:
1. upper and lower
2. above, upper, lower, below

1. is there historical validity to Richmond's comments?

2. Please clarify the differences in counting the trigrams inside the hexagram?

3. How are they used in interpreting the Gua.

Thank you.

wlloydw said:

My question regards Trigrams as a part of Hexagrams.

I notice writers divide the Hexagram differently:
1. upper and lower
2. above, upper, lower, below

1. is there historical validity to Richmond's comments?

2. Please clarify the differences in counting the trigrams inside the hexagram?

3. How are they used in interpreting the Gua.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

I gave an account of how I use constituent trigrams here:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=9741&highlight=Secret+System
My Secret System

You might find help in my Vol 2, Dimensions, under Hu Gua (Nuclear Trigrams)
and Ban Xiang (Main trigrams). The authors might have seen or used the former on occasion, but nothing systematic, if at all. Nuclear Trigrams were in regular use long before the Han, but Nuclear Hexagrams, made from combining the Nuclear Trigrams, were invented much later.

If you can find it, Charles Ponce's long out of print little book, The Nature of the I Ching, is a good guide to using the four in interpretation.

Poccossin thank you for sharing your "secret."

Bradford thank you I read those passages earlier.

Let me clarify my question. Nigel Richmond in his book Language of the Lines available for download on Steve Marshall site states starting on page 11 that solid line (potential or store) and the broken line (activity or change) are the first two primary words which "allow all the possible arrangement that these lines themselves possess to represent what is possible."

From there through page 27 he shows how one-line, two-line, three-line, then four-line, five-line, and finally six-line words are formed creating the language of the lines.

Joel Biroco states in the article linked earlier, "Nigel Richmond's 'Language of the Lines' has sat next to my copy of Wilhelm-Baynes on my bookshelf for 20 years. When I consult the I Ching I take both books off the shelf as one. There used to be a whole shelf of I Ching books there. Two shelves. Now there are only half a dozen books on the subject, the rest having been discarded. Outgrown. But Richmond's work has a quality hard to outgrow."

1. Is there historical validity to Richmond's comments?

2. Is there an example on the site or will someone give an example of how the above, upper, lower, below trigrams are used in interpreting a hexagram. Poccossin thank you for the example in your post mentioned suing the Above and Below. Is there an example using all for trigrams?

Thank you.

wlloydw said:

Is there an example using all four trigrams?

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Visual features of a hexagram are the reason for its text. For example, 23.5: "Favor comes through the court ladies" (Wilhelm). Where is the 'court' and where are the 'ladies'?

The constituent trigrams of 23 are ☷ ☷ ☷ ☶.

☷ ☷ ☷ = ladies.
☶ = court

A more literal translation of 23.5:

"Through the favour of the palace people" (Hilary).
"By way of the inhabitants' sponsorship" (Bradford).

Based on the trigrams, I think Wilhelm's interpretation of the people/inhabitants as 'ladies' is correct. They are the people who share the royal bed.

Steve Marshall (Joel Biroco) doesn't have readings posted anywhere that I know about, so I don't know how he uses Richmond's work.

Very interesting.

My interest is how Richmond goes from each individual line to interpret each trigram and hexagram. The process is described on pages 11-27 in the Language of the Lines (linked earlier) and his translation of the Yijing is in his other book also available for download The I Ching Oracle. The later may give you a better idea how he uses the lines though the former book in the page above actually shows an interpretation.

I found the process enlightening, I just wonder if it has an historical precedence or is it just his unique understanding or methodology. Thank you.

wlloydw said:

Very interesting.

My interest is how Richmond goes from each individual line to interpret each trigram and hexagram. The process is described on pages 11-27 in the Language of the Lines (linked earlier) and his translation of the Yijing is in his other book also available for download The I Ching Oracle. The later may give you a better idea how he uses the lines though the former book in the page above actually shows an interpretation.

I found the process enlightening, I just wonder if it has an historical precedence or is it just his unique understanding or methodology. Thank you.

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If you understand Richmond's adaptation of the Yi, please explain what he is doing. I am unaware of any careful examination of Richmond's work. His "language of the lines" is about the 'line, bigram, trigram, tetragram, pentagram, hexagram' sequence, not the lines and trigrams of the received text. For 23.5, Richmond has:

Fifth line

He does not accept the feeling of solitude
Finding a group like himself he no longer
feels alone.

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Six in the fifth place means:
A shoal of fishes. Favor comes through the court ladies.
Everything acts to further.

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Sorry that is my question. I wish I understood his adaptation. I was impressed with Joel's endorsement and found Richmond's explanation intriguing.

Am I to assume from your statement, " not the lines and trigrams of the received text" that this is his own extrapolation and has no precedence in writers of Yi?

Bradford thank you for the recommendation to Ponce.

If I combine what you and Bradford are both saying, the ancients would have focused more on the bottom and top trigrams and all of the nuclear and individual line interpretations were a later addition by others and may be of value for adding additional symbols and metaphors but I should look to the bottom and top trigrams first.

Is that correct?

Thank you.

pocossin said:

Based on the trigrams, I think Wilhelm's interpretation of the people/inhabitants as 'ladies' is correct. They are the people who share the royal bed..

Click to expand...

Although the word ren here is gender neutral, one of the euphemisms for younger women throughout the Yi is "fishes". I suspect even "piglets and fishes" alludes to "sons and daughters".

I suspect that the authors on occasion noticed a nuclear ba gua and used it as a source of imagery. In any case, it wasn't long (Middel Zhou, the Zuozhuan) before they were being used in interpretation. I would be quicker to dismiss the nuclear hexagram idea as being just an afterthought.

Thank you for the clarification. I ordered the Ponce book and look forward to seeing how he uses them to aid in interpretation. Thank you.

wlloydw said:

Am I to assume from your statement, " not the lines and trigrams of the received text" that this is his own extrapolation

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Yes. His version is not a translation.

and has no precedence in writers of Yi?

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Most everything has a precedence. Others have reinterpreted the Yi but not with Richmond's style. Richmond gives expression to his attitude and values. If you share his attitude and values, then you'll like his Yi.

Fifth line

He does not accept the feeling of solitude
Finding a group like himself he no longer
feels alone.

Click to expand...

Six in the fifth place means:
A shoal of fishes. Favor comes through the court ladies.
Everything acts to further.

Click to expand...

Note how Richmond is psychological and subjective, and Wilhelm is specific and objective. My opinion is that for divination, Wilhelm is more applicable.

the ancients would have focused more on the bottom and top trigrams and all of the nuclear and individual line interpretations were a later addition by others and may be of value for adding additional symbols and metaphors but I should look to the bottom and top trigrams first.

Click to expand...

Depends on context. If you want to know why a one-eyed man is in 10.3 you need to look at the lower nuclear trigram.

Pocossin thank you for the very specific explanation, this was helpful.