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How many lines to change?!

ilemacedonia

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Hi to All,

Today I had a realization about the Deriving of the 2nd Hexagram from the changing lines of the first.
The realization is this, whenever I have more than one line changing (2-3 for example) in many cases only one (often the upper) is really (or the most) appropriate for my present situation. So, instead of changing all lines for deriving the 2nd hexagram I change only that line which is more appropriate for my situation and in that case the 2nd hexagram is more accurate for the reading than to change all lines.
Do you practice this or have similar experiences?

Best,
Ile
 

chingching

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so if you draw for example, hex 7.3.4.5.6 > 44 you actually change it to for example 7.6 > 4

That would seem to me like you were arranging yi's answer to suit what you want it to be. Then why use the I Ching system at all. Why not just meditate yourself and answer your own questions without the oracle. To me your method seems questionable.
 

hilary

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I'm with Chingching on this: if you needed just line 6, you'd receive just line 6. If you get 5 lines moving, it's complicated - and that's because your answer is exactly that complicated. (And if you get no lines moving, it's exactly that simple.) If I already knew which line was 'most appropriate' for my situation, I wouldn't be asking Yi.

Having said that, though, if you do want to experiment with simplifying things, there are some established ways of doing that. Here's an old article of mine that lists three:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/consult/mml.php#limit

Also... it's wholly natural that if there's one particular line you can relate to straight away, you'd also find it easiest to understand the hexagram that line changes to - the line and its zhi gua are part of a single unit of meaning.
 

ilemacedonia

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I think I'm not understood.
I'm no discounting the rest of the lines, and I surely count on the 2nd Hexagram derived from all changing lines. Just, there are times when there's one line from all changing lines that suits your present situation and in many cases here's the clue of what to do or not to do. In that case I go to the hexagram which is derived only from that changing line, only to complement the previous derived hexagram. Do you understand me now?
Not that the other lines are not 'important' or they don't suit the reading, but I found in many cases that some of the lines shows the past of the whole situation, and not that the past is not important, but ok I've got the lessons, now is time to look what to do. There are times when I derive many hexagrams, one for a changing line. However, that is my practice, there's no right or wrong in IC. Everyone should do the reading with his own inclinations.
 

hilary

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Ah, I see what you mean. In that case you can ignore everything I wrote except the last paragraph :) .
 

miakoda

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Hilary,

Could you please explain what the difference is between zhi gua and fan yao? And...what is the translation for the two terms?

Thanks!
 

chingching

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zhi gua = relating hexagram fan yao = the same line in the relating hexagram
example:

64.1 > 38 .... 38 is the zhi gua

.... 38.1 is the fan yao
 

chingching

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I think I'm not understood.
I'm no discounting the rest of the lines, and I surely count on the 2nd Hexagram derived from all changing lines. Just, there are times when there's one line from all changing lines that suits your present situation and in many cases here's the clue of what to do or not to do. In that case I go to the hexagram which is derived only from that changing line, only to complement the previous derived hexagram. Do you understand me now?
Not that the other lines are not 'important' or they don't suit the reading, but I found in many cases that some of the lines shows the past of the whole situation, and not that the past is not important, but ok I've got the lessons, now is time to look what to do. There are times when I derive many hexagrams, one for a changing line. However, that is my practice, there's no right or wrong in IC. Everyone should do the reading with his own inclinations.

that makes more sense. The entries in the wiki wing are a great resource for looking at lines which resonate with you and their individual zhi gua. you should take a look.
 

hilary

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Translation-wise... the zhi gua is the 'figure [you're] going towards' or the 'belonging figure'. The fan yao... well, this is a term Brad coined since there didn't seem to be a pre-existing Chinese term for them, and I think it means the line that goes back.
 

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