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Dichotomy?
- Thread starter candida
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Hi Candida,
The consequences of any action (or inaction) can be far reaching and sometimes surprising. Every hexagram is somehow linked to every other one in some combination of changing lines. They in their entirety make a whole.
There is nothing wrong with not understanding something. Not understanding is a large part of all our lives. If your reading puzzles you, that is a good thing. As you ponder it, become receptive to it, perhaps ask for clarification, then you may also be surprised in a different way.
I have been reading the Receptive today and have realized a small thing. The success of the Receptive is in finding its nature. If the Receptive tries to lead, misfortune. If the Receptive is willing to be guided, supreme success.
By asking, we must receive to be successful. It is not always what we want to hear, but it is "easy".
wanderer
The consequences of any action (or inaction) can be far reaching and sometimes surprising. Every hexagram is somehow linked to every other one in some combination of changing lines. They in their entirety make a whole.
There is nothing wrong with not understanding something. Not understanding is a large part of all our lives. If your reading puzzles you, that is a good thing. As you ponder it, become receptive to it, perhaps ask for clarification, then you may also be surprised in a different way.
I have been reading the Receptive today and have realized a small thing. The success of the Receptive is in finding its nature. If the Receptive tries to lead, misfortune. If the Receptive is willing to be guided, supreme success.
By asking, we must receive to be successful. It is not always what we want to hear, but it is "easy".
wanderer
C
cheiron
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Hi Candida
I don?t know you views on the relationship between the cast hexagram and the resulting one.
Some people view the second hexagram as the direction in which the movement of change is going or where it is likely to end up.
Another view is that it can also be the ?sea? in which your cast hexagram is situated. So in that case in a general time of Hx. 23 around you, you will have a period of 53.3.5.
What I do with difficult castings like this is concentrate (meditate) the resulting hexagram and try to find where it feels like it fits I the world around me ? then I can situate the cast hexagram in relation to it.
Hope this helps
--Kevin
I don?t know you views on the relationship between the cast hexagram and the resulting one.
Some people view the second hexagram as the direction in which the movement of change is going or where it is likely to end up.
Another view is that it can also be the ?sea? in which your cast hexagram is situated. So in that case in a general time of Hx. 23 around you, you will have a period of 53.3.5.
What I do with difficult castings like this is concentrate (meditate) the resulting hexagram and try to find where it feels like it fits I the world around me ? then I can situate the cast hexagram in relation to it.
Hope this helps
--Kevin
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I see the relating hex in yet another way. If you follow the advice of those two lines, you will get the positive possibilities of hex. 23. Every hexagram has good and bad qualities, not one hex is 'good', or 'bad'. In some cases hex 12 can be 'better' than 11!
If you don't do the right thing, then you get the negative qualities of 23.
If the first and second hex are in a sequence in time, or maybe simultaneously, or showing different sides of the same situation, depends on your question and on your situation. I don't think there is any fixed rule for it.
LiSe
If you don't do the right thing, then you get the negative qualities of 23.
If the first and second hex are in a sequence in time, or maybe simultaneously, or showing different sides of the same situation, depends on your question and on your situation. I don't think there is any fixed rule for it.
LiSe
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53: 3,5 = 23
Dear Candida: In ancient times, a noble lady would have the benefit of three diviners and should follow the advice to two out of three so it is said. I follow a different direction. I think Hexagram 23 portends difficulties ahead. Keep in mind that I very much hope Lise is correct.
Line 3 speaks of defending oneself in a conflict. There is envy and opposition from without. Line 5 usually means one's wish is fulfilled. (historically the 5h line dealt with a very strong marriage in which the people join together despite obstacles).
Hexagram 23 speaks of things falling apart. Actually there is an excellent book by the Zen Nun Pedma Chodrum called "When Things Fall Apart"
So one achieves one's wishes and then things fall apart - is the dichotomy? Actually the word dichotomy seems to mean a division or a cutting in two. Perhaps you mean anomaly? Such as the fact no sooner does one achieve one's wish (Hexagram 53) when things go haywire (hexagram 23)? As life goes so goes the Changes. Its not unusual.
Sun
Dear Candida: In ancient times, a noble lady would have the benefit of three diviners and should follow the advice to two out of three so it is said. I follow a different direction. I think Hexagram 23 portends difficulties ahead. Keep in mind that I very much hope Lise is correct.
Line 3 speaks of defending oneself in a conflict. There is envy and opposition from without. Line 5 usually means one's wish is fulfilled. (historically the 5h line dealt with a very strong marriage in which the people join together despite obstacles).
Hexagram 23 speaks of things falling apart. Actually there is an excellent book by the Zen Nun Pedma Chodrum called "When Things Fall Apart"
So one achieves one's wishes and then things fall apart - is the dichotomy? Actually the word dichotomy seems to mean a division or a cutting in two. Perhaps you mean anomaly? Such as the fact no sooner does one achieve one's wish (Hexagram 53) when things go haywire (hexagram 23)? As life goes so goes the Changes. Its not unusual.
Sun
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Leapfrogging
Sorry, I apparently left off the last sentence. I am glad you have mentioned this subtlety. What you are seeing is an answer where the outcome or judgement hexagram probably relates to a totally different area of your life - thats why the anomaly is apparent. I call it leapfrogging.
Sun
Sorry, I apparently left off the last sentence. I am glad you have mentioned this subtlety. What you are seeing is an answer where the outcome or judgement hexagram probably relates to a totally different area of your life - thats why the anomaly is apparent. I call it leapfrogging.
Sun
midaughter
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Well, one more time - I seem to be having difficulties with the language. When the judgement or outcome hexagram, particularly a hexagram that has a rather pronounced or strong influence seemingly unrelated to the first hexagram, that outcome hexagram probably relates to a totally different area of your life. Its a leapfrog.
Sun
Sun
cal val
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Hi Candida...
I see no dichotomy at all. Gradual progress is not necessarily upward. It can be downward as well. I see the Yi telling you that whatever it is you're asking about is gradually collapsing or is because of gradual breaking down.
It depends on your question, of course. If you asked about a specific course of action or whether a certain medication would be good or something like that, the Yi is telling you it will gradually lead to collapse. If you're asking about the reason for a person's behavior or why the pyramids are in such a bad state of repair or something of that nature, the Yi is telling you it's because of a gradual breaking down.
Love,
Val
I see no dichotomy at all. Gradual progress is not necessarily upward. It can be downward as well. I see the Yi telling you that whatever it is you're asking about is gradually collapsing or is because of gradual breaking down.
It depends on your question, of course. If you asked about a specific course of action or whether a certain medication would be good or something like that, the Yi is telling you it will gradually lead to collapse. If you're asking about the reason for a person's behavior or why the pyramids are in such a bad state of repair or something of that nature, the Yi is telling you it's because of a gradual breaking down.
Love,
Val
Hi Val, Sunpuerh ,Lise, Cheiron, etc.
As usual I like all of your postings for the truth and the way ya'll say it!
Sun, that is a fun way of remembering the dichotomy or an anomaly by calling the process leapfrogging. It does seem to be an accurate idea.
I guess leapfrogging in a reading might be where time and the Yi intertwine kind of? I mean, its' like a future installment of our lives when something happens or comes to pass?
Btw Val, have you moved yet? I haven't had the time to read many posts lately, as my sons' girlfriend has moved in with us(with 2 kids) for a short period of time and I don't get to use the computer very often. We all know what thats like, don't we! love to ya all, Tatiana
As usual I like all of your postings for the truth and the way ya'll say it!
Sun, that is a fun way of remembering the dichotomy or an anomaly by calling the process leapfrogging. It does seem to be an accurate idea.
I guess leapfrogging in a reading might be where time and the Yi intertwine kind of? I mean, its' like a future installment of our lives when something happens or comes to pass?
Btw Val, have you moved yet? I haven't had the time to read many posts lately, as my sons' girlfriend has moved in with us(with 2 kids) for a short period of time and I don't get to use the computer very often. We all know what thats like, don't we! love to ya all, Tatiana
Hello Candida,
In my view, Hex 53 third and fifth moving lines are related to unresolved issues -things that were not brought to completion yet. The unsatisfactory conditions might be described in the lines as "the woman carries a child but does not bring it forth" and "for three years the woman has no child".
The situation appears to be unfavourable, but yet there is development.
However, one might be discouraged by the delay and feel as though things were falling apart.
It seems to me that this is the scenario of Hex 23, while "the wild goose gradually draws near the summit". I am not quite sure though if the disintegration is the emotional state or circumstances in the course of events.
Hope this helps
all the best,
Mirian
In my view, Hex 53 third and fifth moving lines are related to unresolved issues -things that were not brought to completion yet. The unsatisfactory conditions might be described in the lines as "the woman carries a child but does not bring it forth" and "for three years the woman has no child".
The situation appears to be unfavourable, but yet there is development.
However, one might be discouraged by the delay and feel as though things were falling apart.
It seems to me that this is the scenario of Hex 23, while "the wild goose gradually draws near the summit". I am not quite sure though if the disintegration is the emotional state or circumstances in the course of events.
Hope this helps
all the best,
Mirian
Mirian,
Your posting here makes complete sense to me and it would absolutely to you if I told you the question behind it, of course. You said, "The situation appears to be unfavorable but yet there is development" and then the part of the "woman
carries a child but does not bring it forth and for three years the woman has no child" probably is referring to a relationship I had. Your answers give me the most hope I've had in a long time. Many thank yous's, Tatiana
Your posting here makes complete sense to me and it would absolutely to you if I told you the question behind it, of course. You said, "The situation appears to be unfavorable but yet there is development" and then the part of the "woman
carries a child but does not bring it forth and for three years the woman has no child" probably is referring to a relationship I had. Your answers give me the most hope I've had in a long time. Many thank yous's, Tatiana
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Dear Tatiana: I could not rest with my reading unless I covered the significance and ramifacations of Hexagram 23 and how to deal with it. When you were a child and If your parent ever said this punishment is for your own good, you grasp the idea of this hexagram. Its positive aspects are minimal. Sometimes it may be good to let things fall apart-such a bad marriage that isn't going anywhere and the destruction seems inevitable. Visually this would be the collapse that occurs until the top line sinks to the ground and begins a cycle of positive growth. On the other hand, no one would want their health to fall apart, for example.
The only favorable line in the 5th-that line means you have the ability to halt the destruction (at least patially, maybe completely-that's rare). I would recommend you figure out where in your life this cycle of destruction will occur and see if any of your proposed solutions get the wondrous 5th line. I cannot in conscience sugar-coat this hexagram; it demands your attention.
Sun
The only favorable line in the 5th-that line means you have the ability to halt the destruction (at least patially, maybe completely-that's rare). I would recommend you figure out where in your life this cycle of destruction will occur and see if any of your proposed solutions get the wondrous 5th line. I cannot in conscience sugar-coat this hexagram; it demands your attention.
Sun
cal val
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Candida...
I was bothered by the recent sugar coating as well. I don't like the thought of you blindly walking into a painful state/situation because of a false sense of hope. And I know from my own experience and your response to the sugar coating just how difficult it is to give up that hope.
I also know from my own experience and your response to the sugar coating that nothing anyone says...even the Yi...can change how you feel. Your feelings will change when they're ready.
Candida, I just want you to know I admire you and have the utmost respect for you. You possess a great deal of integrity...a quality I value highly.
Love,
Val
I was bothered by the recent sugar coating as well. I don't like the thought of you blindly walking into a painful state/situation because of a false sense of hope. And I know from my own experience and your response to the sugar coating just how difficult it is to give up that hope.
I also know from my own experience and your response to the sugar coating that nothing anyone says...even the Yi...can change how you feel. Your feelings will change when they're ready.
Candida, I just want you to know I admire you and have the utmost respect for you. You possess a great deal of integrity...a quality I value highly.
Love,
Val
Sun and Val, thank you for your your honest kind concern. I wasn't aware of my sugarcoating hex 23
simply because I am rather naive, at least thats what most people tell me. I read over your postings here and reflected on 23. Sure enough I must have been sugarcoating but it was done out of pride(an obstinacy to win)and out of love for this other person. I guess love like this(on my part) could move mountains, the kind that someone would climb the highest mountain for, etc. but I don't like being a fool either. Often I can't see the forest for the trees(hope I said that right).
Are you two saying that 23 is a bad omen or am I far out of the ballpark as understanding goes?
A person is fortunate to have good friends such as you two. tatiana
simply because I am rather naive, at least thats what most people tell me. I read over your postings here and reflected on 23. Sure enough I must have been sugarcoating but it was done out of pride(an obstinacy to win)and out of love for this other person. I guess love like this(on my part) could move mountains, the kind that someone would climb the highest mountain for, etc. but I don't like being a fool either. Often I can't see the forest for the trees(hope I said that right).
Are you two saying that 23 is a bad omen or am I far out of the ballpark as understanding goes?
A person is fortunate to have good friends such as you two. tatiana
cal val
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Candida...
It wasn't you doing the sugar coating. You approached this forum for understanding...an honest attempt to know the truth, yet full of hope that hexagram 23 wasn't all that onerous.
I think Sun's interpretion is worth re-reading and re-reading again and again until you get resolution. There's good instruction for you there.
Love,
Val
It wasn't you doing the sugar coating. You approached this forum for understanding...an honest attempt to know the truth, yet full of hope that hexagram 23 wasn't all that onerous.
I think Sun's interpretion is worth re-reading and re-reading again and again until you get resolution. There's good instruction for you there.
Love,
Val
Dear Candida,
I think it is worth considering here the concept of development as described in Hex 53. The main idea is definitely Gradual, emphasised on the metaphor of the wild goose, trying to find a safe place to rest and to make its way in life.
Two other hexagrams deals with the idea of development. In Hex 35 -Progress- the development is rapid and easy, represented as the sun rising over the earth. In contrast, in Hex 46 -Pushing Upward- the progress is associated with effort.
By analysing the differences, it is possible to gain a clearer understanding of Hex 53. It is a step by step process in order to cope with difficult circumstances, to avoid danger, to overcome insecurity, to achieve happiness in relationships -and yet there is development. That is the message throughout the lines.
The way I see it, when the third line describes "the woman who carries a child but does not bring it forth", it means that one failed to solve a problem, to bring an issue to completion and, therefore, achieved nothing.
However, in the fifth moving line the development is already in its right course but, again, one will succeed gradually. The expression "for three years the woman has no child" is not literal, of course, but it gives an idea of delay which is considered unbearable, on a more mundane level.
As I said before, I am not quite sure if Hex 23 is just the emotional state, as a background in the interpretation. But even in the case of disintegration as a result of the unfavourable situation, I truly believe that these are the necessary steps to achieve the development as described in Hex 53, although the learning process seems quite severe.
Hope this helps,
all the best,
Mirian
I think it is worth considering here the concept of development as described in Hex 53. The main idea is definitely Gradual, emphasised on the metaphor of the wild goose, trying to find a safe place to rest and to make its way in life.
Two other hexagrams deals with the idea of development. In Hex 35 -Progress- the development is rapid and easy, represented as the sun rising over the earth. In contrast, in Hex 46 -Pushing Upward- the progress is associated with effort.
By analysing the differences, it is possible to gain a clearer understanding of Hex 53. It is a step by step process in order to cope with difficult circumstances, to avoid danger, to overcome insecurity, to achieve happiness in relationships -and yet there is development. That is the message throughout the lines.
The way I see it, when the third line describes "the woman who carries a child but does not bring it forth", it means that one failed to solve a problem, to bring an issue to completion and, therefore, achieved nothing.
However, in the fifth moving line the development is already in its right course but, again, one will succeed gradually. The expression "for three years the woman has no child" is not literal, of course, but it gives an idea of delay which is considered unbearable, on a more mundane level.
As I said before, I am not quite sure if Hex 23 is just the emotional state, as a background in the interpretation. But even in the case of disintegration as a result of the unfavourable situation, I truly believe that these are the necessary steps to achieve the development as described in Hex 53, although the learning process seems quite severe.
Hope this helps,
all the best,
Mirian
Mirian, You truly have a way of stating the truth in an easy manner and I for one appreciate that since my learning disability makes it hard sometimes to ascertain concepts. I do learn but it takes me a lot longer to grasp certain things. I couldn't tell time till I was 12! flunked home-ec cause I couldn't dechiper measurements i cooking and sewing, but I did tare apart a dress and made a pattern and made a new dress out of it.
Now, who flunks home-ec? lol. The stories could go on and on.....anyway, I think it is a form of dyslexia but not the typical form cause I could read on a college level in high school and I write songs, tunes and lyrics. Even though Einstein was a genius and I wasn't diagnosed as one, Einstein couldn't tie his shoelaces(so to speak)and he found other things that should have been easy quite hard. Thats the same as me. Just explaining to all why I have so much trouble with the Yi and need to ask for advice. Also, asking for advice means that I get to know many of you better and that is only a boon to friendship.
You mentioned about 23 and disintegration as the result of an unfavorable situation and yet there is development. Well, it is true, my situation ahad really disintegrated recently, but there was some small progress made but lately there has been none. So the situation is stagnant but it is my belief as I think it was yours that the progress intimated will come but in its own time and it may be slow but it will come. At least this is how I've interpreted it. You have helped me and thanks very much. Peace tatiana
Now, who flunks home-ec? lol. The stories could go on and on.....anyway, I think it is a form of dyslexia but not the typical form cause I could read on a college level in high school and I write songs, tunes and lyrics. Even though Einstein was a genius and I wasn't diagnosed as one, Einstein couldn't tie his shoelaces(so to speak)and he found other things that should have been easy quite hard. Thats the same as me. Just explaining to all why I have so much trouble with the Yi and need to ask for advice. Also, asking for advice means that I get to know many of you better and that is only a boon to friendship.
You mentioned about 23 and disintegration as the result of an unfavorable situation and yet there is development. Well, it is true, my situation ahad really disintegrated recently, but there was some small progress made but lately there has been none. So the situation is stagnant but it is my belief as I think it was yours that the progress intimated will come but in its own time and it may be slow but it will come. At least this is how I've interpreted it. You have helped me and thanks very much. Peace tatiana
cal val
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Candida...
You might also enjoy a tale I've heard that Einstein often couldn't find his way home after teaching at night...that he had to ask students for help. I don't know how true the story is, but I enjoy it nonetheless.
Love,
Val
You might also enjoy a tale I've heard that Einstein often couldn't find his way home after teaching at night...that he had to ask students for help. I don't know how true the story is, but I enjoy it nonetheless.
Love,
Val
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Dear Tata (isn't that nickname for tatiana? I know a sweet very old lady whose mother was a lady in waiting to the Czarina and she was born the day of the Russian Revolution. She asks to be called "Tata)
I am sorry for you disability so I would point that I did not say YOU were sugar-coating Hexagram 23, I only said that I (me, SunPuerh), could not sugar coat the meaning of this hexagram.
sun
I am sorry for you disability so I would point that I did not say YOU were sugar-coating Hexagram 23, I only said that I (me, SunPuerh), could not sugar coat the meaning of this hexagram.
sun
Dear Val and Sun,
I loved the two stories you just told and grateful for the sunshine you bring. I must tell you though that I may not be posting much any more, as my husband is trying to convince me that the I Ching being a living entity, is definitely an evil spirit; and if I talk about going to church as I do, then I ought not to be involved with the I Ching. I remember talking with Hilary about this subject when I first came onboard here.
According to the Bible, satan, the deciever comes as an angel of light, making that which is wrong seem right.
If anything, having received answers from Ching; has made me more willing to embrace christianity because the answers I got were always speaking of good vs evil and love and perseverance were attributes to work for. Plus, when receiving negative hexes, they helped me to see my weaknesses and sins more easily. So, how could anything or anyone who gives this kind of help be so bad?
I really don't understand how a 2000 yr. or is that 3000 old computer, be evil. As far as I can ascertain, Ching speaks of God the one true God in heaven. The Bible does say "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, as I the Lord God am a jealous God" If therefore Ching becomes a God to me(by continually seeking its' council, providing that Ching is a real living entity) then it would be a violation (to me) of my christianity.
Also, I don't wish to harm my husband any more than I already have in the form of adultery(as many of you know about from my posts).
I will look for any of your posts from this message, but will think deeply before I proceed any farther. peace, tatiana
I loved the two stories you just told and grateful for the sunshine you bring. I must tell you though that I may not be posting much any more, as my husband is trying to convince me that the I Ching being a living entity, is definitely an evil spirit; and if I talk about going to church as I do, then I ought not to be involved with the I Ching. I remember talking with Hilary about this subject when I first came onboard here.
According to the Bible, satan, the deciever comes as an angel of light, making that which is wrong seem right.
If anything, having received answers from Ching; has made me more willing to embrace christianity because the answers I got were always speaking of good vs evil and love and perseverance were attributes to work for. Plus, when receiving negative hexes, they helped me to see my weaknesses and sins more easily. So, how could anything or anyone who gives this kind of help be so bad?
I really don't understand how a 2000 yr. or is that 3000 old computer, be evil. As far as I can ascertain, Ching speaks of God the one true God in heaven. The Bible does say "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, as I the Lord God am a jealous God" If therefore Ching becomes a God to me(by continually seeking its' council, providing that Ching is a real living entity) then it would be a violation (to me) of my christianity.
Also, I don't wish to harm my husband any more than I already have in the form of adultery(as many of you know about from my posts).
I will look for any of your posts from this message, but will think deeply before I proceed any farther. peace, tatiana
Tatiana,
I think it might be better, easier for you to look to the spirit within you for guidence. Your spirit does not have a learning disability. It knows you, and is in a better position to speak to you in a way you can understand, without having to decipher ancient texts and conflicting interpretatons. I hope it works out that way for you, and I wish you well.
Namaste,
Joan
I think it might be better, easier for you to look to the spirit within you for guidence. Your spirit does not have a learning disability. It knows you, and is in a better position to speak to you in a way you can understand, without having to decipher ancient texts and conflicting interpretatons. I hope it works out that way for you, and I wish you well.
Namaste,
Joan
Dear Candida,
It appears that there is no pattern to describe the learning process since every human being is unique. So, take your time. Moreover, any decision made according to your consciousness tends to be the right one.
All the best,
Mirian
It appears that there is no pattern to describe the learning process since every human being is unique. So, take your time. Moreover, any decision made according to your consciousness tends to be the right one.
All the best,
Mirian