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Inner changes, outer changes and hexagram 36

cal val

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I've met myself through the guidance of the Yi, and I'm trusting in the wisdom of the Yi now to get to know myself better.

I've been experiencing a new change. My feelings connected with (not toward) a person who has played a really important role in my life are changing. What is happening is a fading <FONT COLOR="333333">fading</FONT> <FONT COLOR="666666">fading</FONT> <FONT COLOR="999999">fading</FONT> of certain feelings or wants. I don't really know how to define it as it's all fading. I described it in the 35 & 36 thread as a fading of color or images so that the canvas is becoming white again. So I consulted with the Yi for some understanding. The questions seem irrelevant because of the Yi answers. They were all about the change within and the Yi answered:

30/4.6 to 36
11.2 to 36
36.1 to 15

I have to look at the possibility that what is happening will cause injury or relates to injury. It's difficult to perceive of injury to myself because this change is painless, and other really positive changes are happening...quite spontaneously... at the same time. And I certainly can't see it as causing injury to another since it's all happening within myself.

There's also the possibility that the Yi wasn't even addressing this question, but was telling me something I NEED to know...as is so often the case.

I will greatly appreciate any input you care to offer. Your input thus far has been an integral part of this journey, a good part of the fuel, and I will always be grateful to you all.

Love,

Val
 
Y

yellowblue

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Val,

You know I'm a babe at this, but this is all I can offer having just been through this myself and receiving the same readings interspersed throughout...

30.4 & 6 to 36

The cause of what rouses one to cling to a situation is done away with to allow survival... getting rid of what brings suffering (as opposed to letting what causes suffering do the ultimate damage).

11.2 to 36

Gently bearing with what still joins rather than abruptly breaking away... in this way we use gentleness to protect We make us of this gentleness to stave the death blow. Not ready to let go quite yet.

36.1 to 15

This I'm not as comfortable about this.. my thoughts aren't clear on it. But I would venture to say that we hide ourselves away while still in the main path of being hurt and unobtrusiveness allows us to be successful in this.

As I said Val, just a babe at this. But this is my perspective based on what I've recently gone through.

Love,
Deb
 
C

candid

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Hi Val,

Here's what I'm getting from your readings with reoccurring 36.

This fading you mention isn't a permanent condition, although it probably strongly feels like it is. Your light is darkened, or more correctly, its hidden, mainly from yourself. You are existing within yourself at this time. You are the host in line 36.1, and there's a lot of gossiping going on inside, self criticizing. You suffer self deprivation as a result. But since you have a goal to strive for, and are determined, the original strength and light of your nature will return to you when this time fulfills itself.

The only injury I see is that which you may do to yourself during this process.

11 offers quiet balance as an antidote, and line 2 councils to remain in the middle. Less turbulent there, more centered and balanced. Its speaks of being generous to yourself and others, bearing with faults within and without. Finally, it promotes your individuality, which is quite an endorsement, I'd say.

15 carries things through to completion.

This doesn't sound negative at all, though I know at present it seems a bit dark in there.

Candid
 

midaughter

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Dear Val: I went through these hexagrams and lines. I have no idea at this point except that
30:4 = 36 would show flaring up suddenly and being firey, probably poor impulse control. (this doesn't sound like the 'fading away' phonomena ;it sounds like losing one's temper)
11:2 = 36 trying to make peace in a group of disparate energies, you will be hurt or this exercise is futile and darkens your own spiritual progess. Get out of this situation while you can.
36:1 =15 means you may escape the wounding and injury-you still have time. So do it.

You know what this sounds like? It sounds like that recent thread with everyone talking AT Marshall, who as usual has come to the List to say 'leave me alone...' Haven't you been involved with that futile exercise?

Hope this helps a little

Sun
 

cal val

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Hi Deb and Candid...

Thanks so much you two "babes" (said with a wry grin).

This is all very interesting. Your great interpretations explain 36 for me well. I always saw it as being quiet...hiding my light...in times of adversity. If you've been following my odyssey at all, you will see why it's difficult for me to connect 36 with what I'm experiencing.

I'm not injured. I'm not self-critizing. Quite the opposite is true. As you've read many times in this forum, I'm quite happy with my imperfections. They make me human. That's why I was able to get to the source of my fear of marriage...because me and myself love and trust each other now and communicate quite openly these days.

The love, respect and admiration I feel for this man will never fade, and I will always feel appreciation for the big part he played in my growth. But, as the Yi explained, he's been taken from me...so I grieved. I released the pain of separation, and, as a result, I find the hopes and dreams of togetherness have gone with it...slipped out the door quietly and painlessly. I told the Yi it all felt very liberating, and it left me with this great big empty canvas to repaint...and 36 was the Yi's answer.

In the past, when the effort seemed for naught and while I was still motivated by my fear of marriage, I would close the channels of communication with him, and the longer they stayed closed, the more the Yi would scream 36 and 28 and 39...mostly 36. When I would get tired of hearing their broken record, I would tell them I would open the door again, and they would say something pretty and reassuring. It's possible the Yi was trying to tell me that this change of heart...that is quite spontaneous and natural...will cause me injury in the long run. But I just can't see how that could be true.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Hi Sun...

Well I'm sure you can tell I'm even more mystified by 36 if you've read my post to Deb and Candid. As you've noted, none of it seems to fit the "fading" experience. I'm not prone to lose my temper, as I have no problem feeling what I feel when I feel it. But your comment on 11 to 36 is very interesting. I'm going to sleep on that. Try to digest it, enquire for more information if necessary. Maybe it will come to me in a dream. Thank you.

Regarding the current "Steve Marshall" threads, I'm not involved in them at all. I care about the man as I do everyone on this forum, but I don't see how my opinion of his behavior would benefit him at all. I have posted in the past in support of his right to his feelings regarding his pain on reading much of the results of his hard work and research in another man's book. If I were in his shoes, I would feel a great deal of pain as well.

Also, in that same thread, he said something that impacted me profoundly. I'd known it intellectually for years, but when he said it in that thread, in the heat of a debate, for the first time in my life, I knew it experientially, and that is to allow me to be myself and others to be themselves. I think absorbing that into my core has been a good part of the fuel for my recent growth.

I don't believe I've commented on Steve's behavior yet except when he and Mary Halpin were trading insults in their websites. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that two people who stooped to that level even entertained notions of themselves as teachers. Teachers are role models...they're not. And I said so. I've also had occasion to disown an emotion he was trying to make me responsible for ("you're trying my patience")...only because he addressed me directly.

And yes, I've noticed he pops in and out...and STILL tries to avoid responsibility for that particular behavior by saying things like, "So this is my reason for preferring "not to be dragged back into discussions here." and "I hope I will not be dragged into any more exchanges after this one."...as if he has no power to make his own decisions, his own choices...to respond or not to respond...no control over his hands at the keyboard...that everyone who questions him or discusses him is in control of his behavior. Yeah right. I just look at that and remind myself never to go there again.

And I've noticed that a number of people keep getting sucked into this "popping in and out" behavior of his, and I wonder if he isn't getting some satisfaction at being able to control them with this behavior. Oh well. He's not my focus. They're not my focus. I'm my focus when I see behavior I don't like. Besides...I took Parent Effective Training...so I recognize it for what it is...*grin*

He's a brilliant scholar. If you've read his book, "The Mandate of Heaven," you know what I mean. If you haven't yet, I strongly recommend it. Like he said in his blog, he's forgotten more than I'll ever learn about sinology and the original meanings of the Yi Jing. And I'm just fine with that. I use his work, the work of Chris Lofting, some other authors and the interpretations in this forum (yours are great!) to understand just what the hexagrams and lines are saying to me...and that's enough for me. I've seem to have benefitted a great deal so far...I've seen growth and improvement in my life since joining this forum, and that's what I want to achieve with my use of the Yi...so I'm pleased.

I look forward to reading more of your interpretations. You've clearly devoted a good deal of energy and focus into understanding the Yi, and I really appreciate that you are willing to share your experience with the rest of us. Thank you.

Love,

Val
 
C

candid

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Val,

Sorry for the bad interpretation. I generally apply the changes to myself since I'm the only one I can really change. However that doesn't make it always correct.

One Babe
mischief.gif
 

midaughter

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Our Most Benevolent Teachers:


This is what Mary Halpin said finally:
Mastering negative feelings is often a process we work through, it doesn't happen all at once.

Second thoughts: Giving Anger Thought but Not Power: Working it through to attain peace withine and without.

My first observation is this issue about ME and not him. Bear with me here for one moment so I can set my issues down so you can see what I am working with: Ques. Why does someone set himself above others as a self-apponted critic? A critic is a person who of necessity sets himself above others. gives him the role of passing judgement on others. This does bring the I Ching comminity together it creates dissension with himself in the center of things. Is this what we as a group want? Dissension? egoism? Why, the I Ching community would fall under a darkness.

Mary writes: Ok, you said it, now you must let of it go!.

The Tao Te Ching writes:
When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep to the simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.


Mary writes on:
I don't even see the reason for the conflict at all and SM made no substantive, objective criticism of the ideas presented, he didn't even read them. The 'review' was contempuous dismissal. I think he wants to take it further with me because his style is conflict. I must on guard not to be drawn in.


The Tao Te Ching writes:
When you are content to be simply yourself
and don't compare or compete,
everybody will respect you.

Whether you go up the ladder or down it,
you position is shaky.
When you stand with your two feet on the ground,
you will always keep your balance.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.

Mary writes:
Yes, restraint.

The Tao Te Ching writes:
Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?


The Tao Te Ching writes further:
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.

Mary writes:
Actually, in my own narrow view, I see a troubled individual.

The Tao Te Ching writes:
He doesn't wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?


Mary writes:
I am getting pas tthe blame game. Mary, cut it out once and for all. Either you ride the wild horse of the mind or it rides you.

The Tao Te Ching replies:
Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.

Mary writes
Well, the little fox is nearly across.

The Tao Te Ching replies:
The Master doesn't try to be powerful;
thus he is truly powerful.
The ordinary man keeps reaching for power;
thus he never has enough.
The Master views the parts with compassion,
because he understands the whole.
His constant practice is humility.

If you close your mind in judgements
and traffic with desires,
your heart will be troubled.
If you keep your mind from judging
and aren't led by the senses,
your heart will find peace

Mary writes:
Now that is what we seek, purification of the ordinary mind, the path to true power. A mature mind is aware that in making judgements we project onto others and see things in them that we ourselves have. A mature mind has the ability to 'geld' disturbing energy from any source.

In the past, I have also been concerned about the influence all the conflict has on the entire community. I need to let go my desire to protect the newbies. I also have to let go the desire to go toe-to-toe with because I excel at argument, having been a lawyer for 30+ years, almost the same of time I have been studying the Yi. Why bring unnecessary conflict into our own lives and disrupt our spiritual attainment? What would the use of this be? What benefit would it bring to others?

Compassion is the antidote to the mind's pollution of anger and ego. - The constant practice of humility is also fundamental to the path.

The Tao Te Ching observes:
When he makes a mistake, he realizes it.
Having realized it, he admits it.
Having admitted it, he corrects it.
He considers those who point out his faults
as his most benevolent teachers.

Taken from Midaughter's List
 

cal val

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Hi Candid...

Oh I thought your interpretation was great...very illuminating. And since it doesn't apply to what I'm feeling, I have to consider that it might be long term consequences of what I'm feeling, about something else entirely that needs my attention or maybe even about the person in question.

I'm considering everything you said very seriously. You just taught me a lot about hex 36. I've always honed on the "hiding one's light" aspect of the hexagram...never taken the injury symbolism as applying to actual injury...physically, psychologically, to myself or to another...and I know now, because of your interpretation, that I had better!

Thank you!

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Sun...

That was incredibly great reading. Thank you for posting that. So it appears Mary used that whole fracass as a learning experience. How fortunate for her that she can do that. How fortunate for her that she can look at herself like that. From my personal experience and from watching others in their struggle, I can say it's not always easy. That took real courage.

This one, of them all, really popped my eyes open --

The Tao Te Ching replies:

Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.


But you know what I've found. It isn't even a question of "mastering" oneself. Once all the parts are in accord and communicating in that the innermost part of us trusts the outermost part of us to talk about the fears and the why, where and when of them...the conflict is ended, and so is the outward behavior that belies the inner conflict. It's just a sort of spontaneous, unconscious "happening"...not a "mastering."

And the way it all started happening for me was that I started to embrace myself...allowing me to be myself and loving me unconditionally. Once I did that, the innermost me started spitting out stuff and feelings about that stuff that completely surprised me. It was like hexagram 51. I was shocked, but I never let go my embrace. I held myself close through all the sobbing...until the pain was spent...I never let go the sacred chalice.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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You know, after reading that post about Mary Halpin's experience, I am compelled to amend something I said...with apologies. I don't like it when I re-read it because it has a sense of permanency, and nothing is permanent.

When talking about the fracas between Steve Marshall in my post last night, I said, "Teachers are role models...they're not."

They weren't at that moment. But...in that Mary used that experience to learn more about herself, and then share her learning experience with others, she is setting an excellent example for others. She turned that whole experience into a learning experience for others, and, in that regard, she IS a teacher.

I retract my remark as ignorant and sincerely apologize to Mary for making it. And I promise to use this mistake to learn from.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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So...

I'm very concerned about the 'injury' aspect of hexagram 36, and so I asked the Yi how I can avoid causing injury to anyone. They answered 42.2 to 61.

Nigel Richmond says of hexagram 42 (Strength to accomplish challenges), line 2:

His strength is in the natural pattern of his feelings, he does not need to co-ordinate them. It is said he has a gift.

WB says of the line, "Increase comes because its prerequisites are provided in the line's own correctness, central position, and yielding nature, and because the strong nine in the the fifth place is in the relationship of correspondence to it. The admonition to constant perseverance is necessary because the yielding quality of the line, in combination with the yielding place, might lead to a certain weakness, which must be balanced by firmness of will.

Love,

Val
 

midaughter

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"While observing how thunder and wind increase and strengthen one another, [one] can note the way to self-Increase and self-improvement. When he discovers good in others, he imitates it and thus make everything on earth his own. If he perceives something bad in himself, loet him rid himself ot it. ...the ethical change represents the most important increase of personality." Wilhelm Baynes, The Image, Hexagram 42

42:2 A person brings about real increase by producing in himself the condition for it, that is, through receptiviety to love of the good.

Thus the thing which is strived for comes of itself... He must make these lessons his own through inner strength and steadfastness.....he will [eventually] accomplish something for the good of the world. {nothing in heaven or earth can oppose it]. Wilhelm-Baynes Book I, the Text.
 

sugarlobster

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dear val,

i'm just a newbie, as i've only been consulting the yi for about a year or so, and only beginning to get a sense of it... but here's my thoughts on 36, for what they're worth.

what inspired me to respond to you here is that i've often associated 36 with fading. a fading of intensity, either as something experienced on the receiving end or as an internal 'fading' of the intensity of my own feelings. in the case of 36, this fading is not necesarily painful in its present state, but it does seem to always be associated with a sense of loss, or resulting from a process that was felt as undergoing loss, and might have been painful at the time. other hexagrams that i also associate with what could be loosely called 'fading' -33 or 41, say- don't necesarily link back to loss or pain or injury (even if only past injury), but 36 always seems to.

so in certain cases, i see 36, 'darkening of the light', as 'loss of intensity', which in itself, is neither good nor bad.

30 to 36 seems to me a perfect example of this kind of process: 30 is the 'brightest' hexagram in the yi, fire above and fire below, a real blazing up of light - of intensity. when things are so brightly lit every little detail is outlined in excruciaing clarity - normally in a very positive joyful way as it is a wonderfully creative hex, but to me it often seems like the yi gives itself a degree of latitude in its use of hexagrams - in this case it could be using 30 to describe a period of very intense feelings, of going through every little detail and trying to shine a light into the deepest recesses of a particular experience - which might have been a painful process in itself. now, that intensity has faded, you have turned off the light on that, and you feel like one does when a searchlight has been shining in your eyes and it is finally turned off: relief, relaxation, and funnily you might be starting to see things better in this new emerging twilight than you did under the glare of 30.

30.4 would expand on that: 'its coming is sudden. it flames up, dies down, is thrown away.' you are moving on and leaving that painful glare behind.

30.6 talks about taking appropriate measures to eradicate evil. again, it would seem you have been working on that and as a result the intenseness of your feelings is fading away, letting you finally relax into a 'blank canvas', a new, calmer, inner space.

best,
sugarlobster xx
 

midaughter

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Dear Sugarlobster: I think you have a good feeling that helps you 'get' the influences presented. I like the fading idea that you associate with a darkening of the light.

One tiny problem here, and nothing refute what your are saying..but the line says 'flares up suddenly and is quickly gone'

Just a thought
 

sugarlobster

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dear sunpuerh,

thanks for your encouragement.

i see what you mean about line 4 - there is a sense of suddenness there that clearly needs to be taken into account.

what i wonder, though, is whether that might make sense to val in some way. i say this because my first reaction on reading her post was that she had been asking the yi about an explanation for how she was feeling, or even how she came to feel that way, in other words, how she had got to the place she's in right now, an understanding of the process. if that is the case, then the answer is not necessarily about the future in any way, or about where things might lead from that, but rather what changes led to it. is that a correct way to see it? or is the answer always meant to be an oracle, regardless of the question and how it was asked?

there might have been a cathartic event that brought on the 'fading', however small, that accounts for the 'suddenness' in the answer?

also, sometimes i feel that the hexagrams themselves construct a very clear narrative of process and change, and in that sense i feel the lines are only there in order to make the second hex happen and therefore provide a clear 'total' image of a process or situation. is that a wrong way of seeing it?

just wondering.

love,
sugarlobster xx
 

midaughter

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Dear Val, Sugarlobster, Candid, and all: I have a feeling the Hexagram 36 reading just doesn't relate to the question. IME (experience) the Sage tries to warn us when something is about to happen and to be on guard against it.

This means that you ask a question and you receive an answer about something else important.

I had what I would call a lost year in which everything went wrong. I kept receiving 36. Finally, I decided to ask, ask, and ask until I figured when and where the injury was to happen. I felt superstious and silly but I kept asking finally the day came and I asked should I drive the car and it said 36:6. I took a cab. One the way, at the entrance to where I live was a 5-car pile up.

You see, unlike Marshall I like the Yi really cares about us and that misfortune is never the will of heaven.

Sugarlobster, you continue with your thoughts and instincts as they are good. Sometimes the line statements have been written to give a sense of the process, sometimes the lines are historical commentary, often the line will reflect the trigram in which it appears.

There is no set rule- above all, there should no dogma. Its your personal journey, just keep a diary so you know when you were wrong and when you were right, hopefully more right than wrong.

As I help you, you in turn will help those coming after.

As ever,

Sun
 

cal val

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Sun...

And this is for SugarLobster too...

Sun, thank you so much. You certainly know your stuff. SugarLobster, there's a lesson here for you too. We're all learning aren't we?

SL...yes there's been a catharsis. It happened right here in this forum. I came here wanting to understand why the hell the Yi insists I wait in this hellhole of a town...3,000 miles from my home and my family...and 3,000 miles (in the other direction) from the man I love from whom I'm estranged...because...well...I f***ed up. I hurt him. I also came to this forum with a profound fear of marriage...but I wasn't thinking about it when I came here. That's, incidentally, why I hurt him...not consciously, of course...subconsciously. He was the best thing that's ever happened to me. He wanted to marry me, and I wanted to marry him, but, when he asked, I changed the subject by starting a fight over something trivial. We tried to reconcile many times after that. We both were too afraid.

I came to the forum and asked for help understanding the Yi...and the odyssey began. I had a series of dreams...many of them I posted here...and many readings from the Yi that walked me through a series of journeys to my inner self. They made me look at the fact I have fear and am controlled by it. They turned me from a devout atheist (who would have supported Chris Lofting's arguments with pom poms, straddle jumps and "RAH RAH RAH"s) to a believer in fate, destiny and a creator. They told me I'd better get to the source of my fear of marriage before it's too late. And then they took me by the hand to the source of that fear (see my post in the 50 to 8 thread (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/753.html?1061368954 dated Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 07:34 pm).

My most interesting dream.....fascinating really...was about a previous life with a gentle man I called Arthur and loved very much. I didn't have any preconceived notions about reincarnation until that dream. Then I dreamt I was robbed...and with the help of our resident dream expert, Mick, and a message from the Yi (6/1.3 to 1), I was able to tap into my feelings about losing the man who belongs with me...through eternity. I grieved. This entire journey has been one catharsis after another. And I have been through the gamut of emotions including the most intense, powerful, pure and very humbling love (the morning after I got hex 15 in answer to a statement about expressing love). I now know why some say 15 is the highest hexagram one can get.

36 is not about "it's okay to let go"...but since this is an issue so many of us have, so many of us tend to project that onto others. It's just as Sun said. It's the Yi warning me...telling me it's NOT okay to let go...yet again. I've said this before in the forum. People tend to not want to believe it and try to negate it, but it's like I said in the post above...


"In the past, when the effort seemed for naught and while I was still motivated by my fear of marriage, I would close the channels of communication with him, and the longer they stayed closed, the more the Yi would scream 36 and 28 and 39...mostly 36. When I would get tired of hearing their broken record, I would tell them I would open the door again, and they would say something pretty and reassuring."...the something pretty and reassuring often being 13 to 30 or 13 to 55.

The Yi has pushed and pushed me toward this man. Many times...when I just couldn't go on trying, when I just wanted it all to stop and to just move on...I have seen that they were right and tried yet again to gain his trust. And yet again...no response. To that, the Yi responds with 60.3 to 5. And this has been going on and on and on...closing the door or fading away...36 (or Shen Shu verse 80), trusting them and holding on to my feelings for him...13.5 to 30 or 13/5.6 to 55. And then no response from him...60.3 to 5. I'm so so tired. This has been going on for so long. I can't try anymore...and I can't wait any more.

I've asked the Yi if the same force that is pushing me is pushing him as well. They answered yes, but his head is in the wooden cangue. He is deaf to counsel. They've told me much about him actually, and the only obstacles now are all his.

I've known 36 is a warning, but this seems like some kind of incredibly cruel, tortuous prison sentence because there's nothing I can do, and I just can't take it any more. I posted hoping there was something I was missing. Some way out.

So Sun, you were right...it's a warning...and it is a warning about the fading within...about letting go...as always. And there's absolutely nothing I can do about it...except 42.2...because it's all up to him...or to God or I don't know. All I know is nobody is doing anything, and I'm about to face one more Christmas alone...probably in this town (yet more delays trying to get out), and I really don't know if I'm going to make it through the day. The only way I think I can is if I put down the Yi...I can't listen to this anymore...since there's nothing I can do.

With love,

Val
 

anita

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Hi Val,

I hate it too that this is the second birthday (Dec. 1st) that I must spend without my great love beside me or my beloved father. But I have my Temple friends who always give me gifts on my birthday and some others who will be around. I'm sure you too have some friends? And if you don't, why don't you make some?

And hang on there Val. I understand 36 too with my own separation from the one I love. Feelings are bound to fade when you're away so long, but I see that they are always resurrected as long as you are faithful to that love. And faithful you will be if you really love.

Best for your Quest

Anita
 

midaughter

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30/4.6 to 36
11.2 to 36
36.1 to 15

Hello Everyone: I probably can't begin to put down everything that is in my mind. I see, I think it Sugarlobster, who pointed out that in a couple of the these questions, Val has asked essentially about a static state of her inner emotions and she was right to point that out.

To begin: reading online is inherently a problem because the diviner is not actively engaged with the querent. There is a dimension of intuition, a level of understanding that comes to the diviner by being in Val's presence. There are lot fancy methods for reading the hexagrams. Historicallly many of these methods were attempt to take the diviner out of the divination - it can't be done. Not only can the diviner be engaged with the person, she can also check from time to time to see how her reading is outpicturing in the person's life and perhaps make some adjustments in the reading. I find that if I am a little bit wrong in the beginning I am a whole lot wrong in the end.

Then we have the problem that Hexagram 36 itself sometimes comes out of now where because the Sage is forewarning and hoping you can escape the darkness; sometimes its a responsive answer to the question; other times, no. This is difficult to tell.

When the upper three lines change, the wounding is already there. So, I seize on what could possibly avoided rather than focus on the pain that is there. (In this case the only reading that the lower line changing was 36:1 = 15

I see a lot of pain. I think Val would do well to use the Yi to get out this life situation of pain and lonliness-take positive efforts to do this. When you just see the top lines change, really you can advise people that soon darkness changes to light or the inner light can never be completely consumed by the darkness. When I see the upper trigram has the changing lines, one can only work through the pain. Its the bottom trigram, if it has moving lines, that hold the promise of redemption.

further, I don't think it helps to use the Yi to analyze the pain so much since you, Val, have an idea of its causes. We want to get out and away from the situation. The hope is HExagram 15-moderation, egolessness, humility. In life situations in tends to mean help comes, personal good fortune, and the wish is possible to fulfill.

Hopefully yours,

Sun
 

cal val

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Hi Sun...

I thank you so much for your caring. I'm very happy you've come to the forum. I hope to learn a lot from you. I see you're still operating in the dark here. I tried to be succinct, but I see I was a little too succinct. I'm so sorry.

I smoke outside. I don't like the smell of cigarette smoke in the upholstery, drapes, walls, etc. And I sit on my porch and smoke...and think. The day I consulted with the Yi, I was sitting on the porch smoking and thinking about my art, and I started thinking back to my 3D art...with a bit of satisfaction. Well I met him when I was just learning 3D modeling, and he was my "first" fan...so naturally I thought about him. Then it hit me. I hadn't thought about him for awhile. And I tried to imagine seeing him again and how I'd feel if we ever got together again, and I couldn't really imagine it. He was faded. And the feeling connected with that realization was peaceful. The word "liberating" came to mind. It was absolutely painfree. And I came in and told the Yi how good it felt, and they answered 36, 36, 36. I didn't "use the Yi to analyze pain." A blank white canvas isn't about pain at all...it's about the joy of creating. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

The Yi has pushed him and pushed him. Trust me. I've never gotten readings about any other man like I've gotten about him. Actually, he was first "pushed" on me 25 years ago...in two back-to-back dreams...the first one... http://home.earthlink.net/~303/dreams1.html has come true for the most part. I've cracked my little whip. It was fun to watch how that manifested in real life. There's a post about it somewhere in this forum. The second dream was all about how I reacted when he tried to ask me to marry him, our break up and my recovery from my fear of marriage. Of course, I had no idea what it was about when I had it...I had to watch it play out in real life to learn that. All of that dream has come to pass.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he loves me...we have a connection, and I feel his feelings...but he's not able, for whatever reason, to act on his feelings. This is a fact I accepted some time ago. This is the state of things. It doesn't change how I feel about him. I've said it here before. I love him...always will...whether he's here, there or everywhere. And because he's unable to act on his feelings, I just want to move on into a new relationship...paint a new picture on my almost pure white canvas. But the Yi has continued to push.

When I had the robbery dream and the reading after...and I grieved, I thought that was the end of it. I pondered why the Yi and my dreams had pushed him so hard and decided it was probably because it was through my association with him and the mistakes I made with him, that I was able to grow out of my fear of marriage...and that I probably needed to stay focused on him to relate to everything that was happening to me during my series of catharses. Then when I sat on the porch and realized I was looking at an almost pure white canvas, I thought, "This is it! YAHA! There's no more obstacles in my way." But the Yi said 36 36 36. It's getting 36 when I'm ready to press forward that hurts.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Sun...

About this town and getting out. You probably wouldn't have seen the movie in the UK, but Oprah Winfrey made a TV movie about a mother and daughter living a depressing life in a depressing town. Well this is the town where she shot the film. It's a textile town, and that means death in the US...textiles have moved overseas. And things have got much worse since Oprah made the movie. I stopped here for three months to help family with some property they bought on my way to England. I was going to live with a girlfriend there and be near this man so we could work through our stuff and back toward each other. My girlfriend met a man she wanted to pursue and changed her mind.

Obviously it was a bad plan...I was still very much controlled by my fear of marriage...the fates knew this...I didn't...until recently...because everything that could go wrong has gone wrong and has kept me here for a little over two years now.

I'm ready to fly. I'm like a runner at the starting block of a race...waiting for the pistol to go off, but the hammer on the pistol is stuck. Things have to happen before I can leave, things I thought surely would have happened by now...and they haven't. They will though.

Love,

Val
 

shelley

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Dear Val,

I so much admire your openness, honesty and strength. I don't have much confidence in my understanding of the I Ching but I wish I could help.

For what it's worth, Hx36 suggests to me that time in the evening when colours fade and things that were clear become difficult to see. It's a good time for avoiding attention. The oracle speaks of hiding your light for your own protection and line 1 speaks of flight. Could it be telling you to get out now from this dreadful town, quietly and without drawing attention to yourself? (A 'dusk flit' would actually be more effective than a 'moonlight flit', if you think about it!)

Karcher says of line 1:
"Hiding your brightness through taking flight. A weary time, three days without rest. Keep hold of your plan. Master your words to persuade others. The situation is already changing."

Are you sure about Things having to happen before you can leave?

Another idea occurs to me: you have been so open and honest and courageous in this forum - is this how you are generally? Normally, I would say, "Good on ya, girl! If more people were like this, the world would be a better place!" but maybe this is dangerous for you right now and you need to cover up for protection. Do you have a Cloak of Invisibility handy?

Don't know if this is any help. Here at home, I have a reputation for giving great hug. I'm sending you a specially warm one.

Love,

Shelley
hug.gif
 

louise

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I agree with Shelleys thoughts. Hope you don't take this as any kind of criticism Val, but I feel you're waiting on the Yi's go ahead too much.
If you want to leave this town badly then leave it. I feel you have gotten so involved in the idea that you must wait for destiny to unfold, that as you say certain things must happen before you go, that you've almost sublimated you own sense of agency. You do have free will, can't wholly live your life by what you believe the Yi tells you. One reason we can't do this is because so very often we misunderstand what its saying anyway. I say this not as criticism but because I feel there is some danger for you if you rely too heavily on the Yi's counsel and ignore what your desires and common sense tell you
No one can tell you you can't leave this town. I was suprised when you consulted Yi about when you should pay your rent. If we consult over everything - we go mad believing every little act has some huge impact on our destiny. For your sanity I reckon you might need a Yi break - it can be beneficial.
 

cal val

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Yo...Louise

and Shelley.

Something DOES have to happen before I can leave this town. It has nothing to do with the Yi. I have to lose my job first or have my hours cut back to less than 40 a week so that I can file an unemployment claim. I have no reserve. I have no cushion. I'm living from week to week. I used what little I had to survive in this town before I finally got a job.

How's THAT for honesty Shelley?

And Louise? *shakes head* Didn't think you were all that big on making assumptions. I guess I just learned something else new. Why aren't I happy about it?

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Shelley...

Thank you thank you thank you. You are so very aware...especially for a beginner...are you sure you're a beginner?...*grin*

First of all, you were right about it all. Changes are already in progress. The 'way' is opening. But I've hesitated to talk about it in this forum because of the "injury" issue. I've hidden my light. There's one person reading this forum who's nodding her head right now because I've shared with her.

Remember my question to the Yi about how can I avoid anyone getting hurt, and they answered 42.2? It's not about injury to me. It's about injury to someone who else. I love him so much, I don't want him to ever feel the least bit of pain in his whole life. Imagine how it must feel for me right now to know I'm the one who's going to do it.

I asked the Yi if he would ever realize his mistake, and they answered 24.6 to 27. Yes, but too late. I then asked how he would feel when he learns it's too late, and they answered 62.6. Chris Lofting says, "One claims there are no more excesses to meet. That claim leads to total disaster. He tries to act like everything is fine but it isn't...total ruin."

It's too late. I've already moved on. I had to. You'll understand more later.

Thank you for the hug. You're very kind. I really need it right now.

Love,

Val
 

louise

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Ah right, I must have lost the plot somewhere...I thought you had said Yi had repeatedly counselled you not to leave town and this was playing a big part in your decision making. Not keeping up with the storyline, sorry I'll shut up then... and hope you lose your job or get your hours cut so you can move.

However on 20th Nov you said in a post above ..I really don't know if I'm going to make it through the day. The only way I think I can is if I put down the Yi...I can't listen to this anymore...since there's nothing I can do Right, so all I was saying was put it down then, you're driving yourself crazy !

You seem to be in a position where you believe Yi is pushing you to do something impossible and its making you tired and despairing ?(this was about the relationship I think) I have been in that position myself and with hindsight I see that my relationship with the Yi had become a bit twisted and I just needed to think on my own, without help from any oracle to get my head straight. It seems you feel you are the puppet of some grand master plan - well my point was only I didn't think that model was serving you too well at the moment.

I'm sorry if I have missed some vital elements of the situation, I was only offering my perceptions and they were not intended as a put down
 

hilary

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Hi Val,

Half a belated thought for you. You say 'it's faded... liberating...' and Yi says 'Brightness Hidden'. Thought fragment one: that the light in 36 is not faded: it's not actually diminished in any way. The sun doesn't have a dimmer switch. It's just obstructed, blocked out. In your case, it would be love that went unrecognised. That experience you describe in your 5.09 post is the 'hard toil' of #36's judgement in a nutshell: holding on (and on) without recognition or reward. Ouch...

Another fragment: the seed hidden in 36 is 40 - Release. Perhaps release from the expectation of being able to do something, make an impression? Permission just to look after yourself and protect that light from injury?

If you think these readings could have anything to do with the leaving town issue (which doesn't seem likely from your account of how you cast them), then 36,1 describes a very thin time, but one it's right to undergo in order to get out and go your own way. This is likely to be very naive of me, but is there any way you could unofficially request that your hours be reduced?
 

hilary

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(Sorry - didn't see the previous two posts. Can't keep up!)
 

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