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Comment on Osama bin Laden

rosada

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I asked the I Ching for a comment on the death of Osama bin Laden.

I received 42.6 > 3.

42.6
He brings increase to no one.
Indeed, someone even strikes him.
He does not keep his heart constantly steady.
Misfortune.

rosada
 

Trojina

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what did your answer tell you ?
 

rosada

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To paraphrase Wilhelm,
The meaning for me here is that through renunciation, bin Laden claimed he was helping those below. By neglecting this duty and helping no one, he lost the furthering influence of others and soon found himself alone. In this way he invited attacks. An attitude not permanently in harmony with the demands of the time will necessarily bring misfortune with it.
Confuscius says about this line.."If a man is brusque in his movements, others will not co-operate. If he is agitated in his words, they awaken no echo in others. If he asks for something without having first established relations, it will not be given to him. If no one is with him, those who would harm him draw near."
 
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rosada

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The news reports make it sound as if Osama's where abouts were discovered because of info forced out of captives but this hexagram reads as if one of his own people turned on him. Hmm..I wonder if we're being given a cover story to protect someone. We'll probably never know..

rosada
 

nykkic

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one of his wives ID'ed him by name ..and that was that then for him
 

bamboo

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anticlimatic. the event or maybe the announcement is anticlimatic. maybe he was already dead. what does it really mean anyway...

maybe just a way to rally the american people around a cause that is already questionable. cannot see the cause to celebrate.
 
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i think it means that making this fetish example of bin laden is bringing increase to no one. this guy is obviously not the sort of leader hexagram 42 talks about. this sort of behavior of society is really abominable.
 

Tohpol

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I've long been convinced that Osma Bin Laden - as a former CIA asset and a lynchpin in the phoney "war on Terror"- died several years ago. Many politcal, intelligence and military analysts have been saying so for a number of years. It was only a matter of time before this particular patomime would be wheeled out for varied and needy cause.

42.6 is a perfect answer in light of this probability.

'Absolutely no blessing for this one,
Maybe someone strikes her.
To order your heart without perseverance -
Pitfall'

To ‘order your heart’: to ground it in settled principles. 42 is fluidly responsive, but now this has gone too far. Some perseverance is needed – that’s the name of Hexagram 32, 42’s complement – what completes it. Here, there’s plenty of desire and intention, but no steadiness, no fixing the new patterns over time to create lasting growth. Responsiveness to blessing has tipped over into opportunism. This does not bring good things.

This can mean inconsistency in behaviour – failure to keep resolutions, letting yourself down – or unreliability in relationships.

Indeed. It can also means insincerity, deceit and an increase at the expenses of others.
It has gone so "far" that certain persons are fibbing to the populace and telling such whopping lies that there can be "no blessing at all for this one" - meaning the situation as a whole. The "blessing" is missing and it is not what it appears to be.

You can bet your life they are going to squeeze the dregs out of this one all the way up to the next election...Please don't put your faith in the media!
 

cristal

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I asked the I Ching for a comment on the death of Osama bin Laden.

I received 42.6 > 3.

42.6
He brings increase to no one.
Indeed, someone even strikes him.
He does not keep his heart constantly steady.
Misfortune.

rosada

For me this mean:

His death does not solve anything but instead complicate the situation because rises more anger for those who mourn so many deaths including his.
Eye for an eye make a whole world bling.MG
Misfortune for who celebrates death.

Who can think that killing somebody would bring peace/stop of terrorist actions?
(If he was really Killed) It is so absurd the way it was buried, it has not sense.:duh:
 

Trojina

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see anyone can see this answer in any way that fits with their beliefs about the situation, naturally...thats always the case with 'world events' questions. Topal doesn't even believe Bin Laden has just died so the question about his death cannot apply to his actual physical death but the politics around it ...and Cristal sees it another way entirely


its a good exersize in seeing how many ways people can see one answer

and a good illustration of how much opinion plays in interpretation.
 
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rosada

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I think so too. Many different perspectives. Always interesting to see how often when you first read it, the answer seems clear - but then when you start to study the answer, the hexagram can be referring to both sides, or 64 different sides! Here I can see 42.6 as saying bin Laden brought Increase to no one, at the same time it can also be argued that the assassination brought increase to no one. The victim and the killer are two halves of the same whole, or we are all one or something.
I think this is one of the benefits of the I Ching - the way it encourages you to see things from a different perspective without invalidating your own.

-rosada
 

bamboo

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I guess it depends on the wording of the question, whether opinions and perspective weigh in. The truth is the truth, whether or not we know what that truth is in this case.....i.e. if the anouncement was a ruse, the I ching would be speaking to that truth, it would have nothing to do with personal perspectives on this supposed assassination. And the question was rather open, more vague, it was asking for a comment about the events. Even so, the event either happened the way it has been portrayed, or it didn't.....opinions about that really can't mean much without knowing the truth about what happened. In this case, anyway.
 

RindaR

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I think so too. Many different perspectives. Always interesting to see how often when you first read it, the answer seems clear - but then when you start to study the answer, the hexagram can be referring to both sides, or 64 different sides! Here I can see 42.6 as saying bin Laden brought Increase to no one, at the same time it can also be argued that the assassination brought increase to no one. The victim and the killer are two halves of the same whole, or we are all one or something.
I think this is one of the benefits of the I Ching - the way it encourages you to see things from a different perspective without invalidating your own.

-rosada

Another way to say that the world is a perfect mirror...?
 

Tohpol

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see anyone can see this answer in any way that fits with their beliefs about the situation, naturally...thats always the case with 'world events' questions. Topal doesn't even believe Bin Laden has just died so the question about his death cannot apply to his actual physical death but the politics around it ...and Cristal sees it another way entirely


its a good exersize in seeing how many ways people can see one answer

and a good illustration of how much opinion plays in interpretation.


Yes, I agree entirely. Especially when it comes to world events questions, as you say. Which is why I always prefer the questions that are about one's own self work. Generally for me, it's much more reliable. I think the Yi prefers it too ;)
 

Tohpol

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I guess it depends on the wording of the question, whether opinions and perspective weigh in. The truth is the truth, whether or not we know what that truth is in this case.....i.e. if the anouncement was a ruse, the I ching would be speaking to that truth, it would have nothing to do with personal perspectives on this supposed assassination. And the question was rather open, more vague, it was asking for a comment about the events. Even so, the event either happened the way it has been portrayed, or it didn't.....opinions about that really can't mean much without knowing the truth about what happened. In this case, anyway.


Hmm, that's also true. :bows:

For some extra grist to the mill on "opinion" and truth:

Bin Laden is Dead! Long live Bin Laden!
 
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arabella

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I've long been convinced that Osma Bin Laden - as a former CIA asset and a lynchpin in the phoney "war on Terror"- died several years ago. Many politcal, intelligence and military analysts have been saying so for a number of years. It was only a matter of time before this particular patomime would be wheeled out for varied and needy cause.

42.6 is a perfect answer in light of this probability.

'Absolutely no blessing for this one,
Maybe someone strikes her.
To order your heart without perseverance -
Pitfall'

To ‘order your heart’: to ground it in settled principles. 42 is fluidly responsive, but now this has gone too far. Some perseverance is needed – that’s the name of Hexagram 32, 42’s complement – what completes it. Here, there’s plenty of desire and intention, but no steadiness, no fixing the new patterns over time to create lasting growth. Responsiveness to blessing has tipped over into opportunism. This does not bring good things.

This can mean inconsistency in behaviour – failure to keep resolutions, letting yourself down – or unreliability in relationships.

Indeed. It can also means insincerity, deceit and an increase at the expenses of others.
It has gone so "far" that certain persons are fibbing to the populace and telling such whopping lies that there can be "no blessing at all for this one" - meaning the situation as a whole. The "blessing" is missing and it is not what it appears to be.

You can bet your life they are going to squeeze the dregs out of this one all the way up to the next election...Please don't put your faith in the media!

I agree Topal. It's a bunch of nonsense. Also, Benazir Bhutto said that she had firsthand knowledge that Bin Laden died in December of 2001 -- and in no time she was shot as well. She must have known too much.

Bin Laden was on kidney dialysis in 2001. Hard to imagine him fleeing and hiding in caves and the rest while undergoing such a difficult procedure reliant above all on sterile and stable conditions.

Obama's polls have gone up in the US as a result of this "non-story" and just as the Republican candidates are announcing themselves. Fortuitous planning -- just as intended. The rest is rubbish and he must feel rather silly as the protagonist in this charade.
 
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cristal

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Just about minds:
The Gullible Mind. It is a psychological processing malfunction that filters out information based on its source rather than its integrity. People who operate from The Gullible Mind tend to have misplaced trust in governments, institutions, mainstream news networks, doctors, scientists or anyone who wears the garb of apparent authority.
Why is the TSA still reaching down our pants at the airports if Bin Laden is now dead? Wasn’t he the whole reason we created the TSA and hired on those 60,000 security agents in the first place? (http://www.naturalnews.com/032267_B…)

An intelligent, skeptical thinker would ask these questions (and many more) as a natural course of basic human curiosity. But a Gullible Mind, attacks the questioner for even daring to ask such questions.



Whereas a normal, intelligent person would raise commonsense questions about information they receive from all sources, the Gullible Mind wholly accepts virtually any information from sources that occupy the role of apparent authority in society.

Governments never lie

But how does this work inside their heads? It’s an interesting process. Gullible Mind people do believe it is possible for a government (or institution) to lie; but they believe that governments, institutions and doctors choose NOT to lie even when it would serve their own self interests to do so.

Follow this carefully, because this is the fascinating part. These Gullible Mind people effectively believe that even though a government official could lie about something, they would never actually do so. And why wouldn’t they? Because, ultimately, the Gullible Mind crowd believes that governments, institutions and mainstream media outlets operate from a sort of honor code. So even if it were in the interests of our own government to lie to us, it would never happen because that would violate this imaginary honor code.

Where does this honor code exist? Where is it written down? Nowhere, of course. It is imaginary. But to The Gullible Mind, it seems real. Interestingly, even though this “honor code” only exists in the imagination of The Gullible Mind person, they project this honor code onto sources of authority, imagining that they abide by it.

Extreme gullibility

This is how The Gullible Mind person believes that network news always reports the truth. The news networks have a sense of “honor,” they believe, and this sense of honor requires them to always report the truth and never manipulate the news for any nefarious purposes. So news networks never “shape” the news and they only report what is factually true without any consideration whatsoever of politics or advertiser profits.

This view of the world is, of course, laughably naive. And yet it is the core belief system of at least half the population — the Gullible Mind half that believes everything it is told by its own government, media or authority figures.

Interestingly, the Gullible Mind is also inwardly gullible because it does not recognize its own gullibility. Instead, it believes it is operating as a Rational Mind. This false Rational Mind believes it functions as a critical filter of incoming information, but even this is self deception. In truth, this false Rational Mind is on “auto filter” so that it filters out any information that conflicts with the information it is receiving from official sources.

This is the key to understanding the Gullible Mind — it isn’t the quality of the information itself that matters; it is the confirmation of the story from official sources that “makes it real” in the Gullible Mind.

The Easter Bunny killed Bin Laden!

For example, let’s say a Gullible Mind person comes across an announcement that says the Easter Bunny has killed Osama Bin Laden. The report claims that colored eggs were found near Bin Laden’s body, and there was evidence of feathers being left at the scene, which proves the Easter Bunny was there.

Now, an intelligent, rational mind would have a lot of questions about this. For starters, rabbits don’t have feathers. And the Easter Bunny is a piece of fiction, too. On top of that, how could the Easter Bunny kill Osama Bin Laden? An intelligent person would, upon reviewing the holes in the story, be forced to conclude the story is fiction. The only logical conclusion from that is that the government is lying to them.

A Gullible Mind person, however, would not ask whether rabbits have feathers, or whether the Easter Bunny is capable of conducting a military raid. Instead, the Gullible Mind person would first look to other confirming news sources in order to determine the reliability of the story. They would turn on the TV or surf the internet, looking for the news to be repeated through “official” sources.

Once they found CNN, or Fox News, or some other “official” source reporting that the Easter Bunny killed Osama Bin Laden, then that news report would instantly become “real” in their minds. Suddenly it has shifted from their mental processing queue to the “absolutely truth” part of their brain, and from that point forward, no one can question that reality in their heads.

Don’t bother arguing with a Gullible Mind – they are immune to facts

At this point, their rational mind is completely shut off on the topic. No accumulation of facts can, at that point, rattle their “reality.”
It is that “awakening” that is so utterly despised by the web of corporations, governments and media lackeys that they will do everything in their power to prevent any sort of awakening from taking place at all. The functioning of the Matrix, after all, depends on people believing in the illusion.

And it is so much easier to govern, of course, if people just believe whatever you tell them. Gullible Minds make great voters and willing slaves. ...
 

Trojina

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:confused: why label someone gullible because they don't choose to believe whatever theory is the 'alternative' one

what an over generalisation ! to call people 'the gullible mind crowd' just switches me off...its so adolescent

I mean theremay be some truth in what is written but the way its written just rings alarm bells for me, written from a stand point of assumed superiority of the 18 year old revolutionary...who lives at home with mum and dad ;)


BTW I assume whats written is a quote Cristal so I am not insulting your writing....but that attitude that everyone in authority of any kind is lieing is more blind deaf and dumb that the 'gullible' people it critisizes

Seems to me some people believe any old crack pot theory they read on theinternet and if its the opposite to the main news they automatically believe it..


BTW I have no opinion whether Bin Laden just died or died some time ago...I'm sure people on this thread know more than me about it....but I don't think someone is 'gullible' just because they do believe Bin Laden just died. Lets face it no one actually knows the truth so how can one set of people look down on the views of the other as 'gullible'

...but I am already over sensitized by the endless harangueing in Open Space where we are called 'gullible' if we don't think 9/11 was a set up or 'dreamers' because we aren't freaking out about the end of the world.


:rant:


this rant applies here as well http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=12721


the whole 'you are a gullible dreamer' speeches have just hit my overload button


nothing personal ....but i needed to express it

the 'gullible' label is a cheap lazy gimmick IMHO
 
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Trojina

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Thats a very enigmatic smile

Inscrutable Hare
 

Trojina

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:rofl: look stop playing hard to 'get'
 

patro

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to me it seams that the answer is something like:
that his death is not a good point! it would be better to kill.. or to kidnap him by mantaining that secret.

certainly the US needed to kill him.... it was just much shameful that this happened after 10 years.
42 describe all the efforts made day by day that bring the US to finally got him alive or death.

but the changing in 3 promise a new bad begin.... someone new to kill!!!....
with great effort, someone that will act with a different strategy from bin laden.
the US forces will contrast these new "persons" with a old strategy. this will be cause new problems and troubles!
 

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