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arabella

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Hello all. This is complicated. I'll try not to bore you. I have an association of a couple years with somebody I've often spoken about here. A neighbour I've gone out with from time to time who is a widower. Our relationship has remained stuck at a certain point since he continues to grieve and I've debated a lot on here what that bodesfor our relationship and decided we can be friends and maybe something blossoms later on -- we'll see.

We're both volunteer radio presenters -- I got him involved in it sort of on a dare and then he convinced me to try as well. His two programmes got to be too much when he was elected to local government this Winter, and he found another person -- a woman -- to take over the longer of his two programmes.

Anyway, I booked my usual programme editing slot for today and was told he and she would be at the station at the same time, but working in another area. I didn't realise they are working so closely on this and I think the station manager was giving me a "heads up" -- not sure himself who's with who -- if you get my drift -- but I had no choice but to overlap with them, as this was the only time I could fit this into the schedule, so I went along.

They were there ahead of me. I was introduced on the basis of "you both lived a long time in X country" isn't that interesting? And I was polite I suppose, but had limited time to chat, knowing the tech support guy could offer me only a half an hour -- which is tight.

So I wasn't very chatty, nor did I really know what to say. I hope I didn't seem short or unfriendly and I could hear him as I left to work on my editing continuing to talk on about our association from the past two years with her. And amongst the two of them, and the station manager who was with them, there was a lot of repartee and laughter, not that I believe that had anything to do with me, but I wonder if it was a deliberate attempt to carry off a slightly sticky situation?

I asked the Yi what the man of the hour took from this coincidental encounter and having to introduce the two of us? Even though he's quite socially suave and adept, I'd imagine it wasn't entirely comfortable for him, but I don't know.

The Yi replied with Hexagram 2.6 becoming Hexagram 23.

I take this to mean that there were too many women in the room to suit him and this was not a happy situation for him either.

My feeling about the encounter was that she seemed to be getting an elaborate explanation of who I was, for whatever reason, and all I heard about her was that she is from here, but lived in the States quite some years. So I still have no information what their thing is about, and I don't want to read too much into it -- she could be a friendly helpful neighbour or a whole range of other things -- and I just don't know.

I'm not planning to lose sleep over it -- although honestly I did last night as I wasn't looking forward to the collision with these two. It wasn't so difficult as it could have been had I had no warning, but I still don't know what exactly transpired. Does this reading for him say anything enlightening do you think about where things stand now?
 
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arabella

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Just realised my parting comment was a question: Where do things stand between us now? And maybe that's the question I should have asked in the first place.

Yi's reply: Hexagram 55.1.3 becoming Hexagram 16.

That would indicate to me that I should proceed as before -- regardless of whatever is going on with them. Nothing particularly changes. The third line would seem to say that the outcome is promising -- not that a particular outcome is promised -- but that our relationship is still headed in a good direction and is worthwhile anyway.

I'm not sure what the "big elephant" as LiSe says of Hexagram 16, as a context, is likely to entail. But I've always found that hex auspicious for me anyway. Big enthusiasm is my speed -- just so long, I suppose, as it's not out of control.
 
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arabella

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Sorry, as I think this over, i keep deriving new and what would seem to be better questions, getting more to the heart of what I'm really thinking.

The next question I asked: "How is he going to treat me now?" Because what I really want to know I suppose is if our relationship has altered and he just didn't tell me.

Yi said: Hexagram 41.3.4.6 becoming Hexagram 34.

41.3 reads: ‘Three people walking, hence decreased by one person.
One person walking, hence gains a friend.’

From that I guess this isn't a "three's a crowd" situation -- or at least he doesn't want it to be perceived that way.

41.4 reads; Decreasing your affliction,
Sending the message swiftly brings rejoicing – not a mistake.’

Which would seem to indicate I will hear something soon to clarify this?

41.6 reads: Not decreasing, increasing it – not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Fruitful to have a direction to go.
Gaining servants, not a home.’

And that's NOT so clear to me as the other two. Increasing it - not a mistake? That's him increasing something I suppose. Gaining servants, not a home leaves me baffled to be honest.

Overall, the context of Hexagram 34 sounds powerful -- and good. Whatever stance he is taking here, I guess we are still friends and he's not leading some "double life" while keeping me hanging in mid-air?
 
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arabella

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I've just realised that none of this matters because if he doesn't care enough to clarify this, or consider that I may have wondered what is happening, or had any concern for my feelings, then I've overestimated him, the relationship, and our association in general. In which case -- who needs it? I've broken my own first rule which is -- if you have to ask it's a lost cause anyway. Seems like time to move on.
 
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His two programmes got to be too much when he was elected to local government this Winter, and he found another person -- a woman -- to take over the longer of his two programmes.

I asked the Yi what the man of the hour took from this coincidental encounter and having to introduce the two of us? Even though he's quite socially suave and adept, I'd imagine it wasn't entirely comfortable for him, but I don't know.

The Yi replied with Hexagram 2.6 becoming Hexagram 23.


Uh... 2.6 is about the feminine trying to be come the masculine, and fails miserably and instead becomes Kali. So maybe he took from the experience that the ladies or those of lower rank are a bit too big for their britches, and would be better if they backed off a bit.

Just realised my parting comment was a question: Where do things stand between us now? And maybe that's the question I should have asked in the first place.

Yi's reply: Hexagram 55.1.3 becoming Hexagram 16.

55 hm... not a bad one. Short climax, many occasions, be detached.

line 1: things will improve

line 3: $hit happens no blame

16. Yee Haw!

The next question I asked: "How is he going to treat me now?" Because what I really want to know I suppose is if our relationship has altered and he just didn't tell me.

Yi said: Hexagram 41.3.4.6 becoming Hexagram 34.

41.3 reads: ‘Three people walking, hence decreased by one person.
One person walking, hence gains a friend.’

From that I guess this isn't a "three's a crowd" situation -- or at least he doesn't want it to be perceived that way.

41.4 reads; Decreasing your affliction,
Sending the message swiftly brings rejoicing – not a mistake.’

Which would seem to indicate I will hear something soon to clarify this?

41.6 reads: Not decreasing, increasing it – not a mistake.
Constancy, good fortune.
Fruitful to have a direction to go.
Gaining servants, not a home.’

41: instincts will be or need to be restrained.

line 3 : reducing lower aspects for higher purposes

line 4: reducing faults

line 6: this process will improve the situation that is probably icy right now.

34: allot of power in the situation. But what it needs is order, rightness and justice etc.
 
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I've just realised that none of this matters because if he doesn't care enough to clarify this, or consider that I may have wondered what is happening, or had any concern for my feelings, then I've overestimated him, the relationship, and our association in general. In which case -- who needs it? I've broken my own first rule which is -- if you have to ask it's a lost cause anyway. Seems like time to move on.

I that attitude exemplifies 2.6 -> 23
:D
 

arabella

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I that attitude exemplifies 2.6 -> 23
:D

Yes, somebody has to be the man around here. Somebody has to buck up, stop being wishy-washy, and put a name on it. Too bad it has to happen by default, but this many years later, I've had enough.
 

arabella

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Just read something on another thread, a comment by Rosada, pointing to the dangers of doing readings in a row without resolving the first one fully. Would appear to be the case here, as what we are now reading as the "meaning" of hex 2.6 becoming 23 was actually cast about the gentleman of the hour and his probable discomfort in the "squeeze play" he'd set up for himself. I'm seeing Rosada's point. Hex 2.6 most likely has nothing to do with me and my ultimate decision, 24 hours later, to get out of this position I feel I'm in -- but has more to do with him who has caused the situation and the moment we were all standing there.
 
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Hi arabella, thought I'd just check in and say hello...and wonder what has evolved from this. interesting point about not doing readings in a row without resolving the first one first, I felt that very thing when i posted this morning and then reading a thread from Bradbury ,long since gone, but it kind of stuck with me and then I read your post and as you say the issue has become confused with the original question you asked on 2;6 to 23. ... by the way apart from all the stuff going on with complications and the unknown agenda's how do you feel about this guy? do you feel good and happy around him? does he inspire confidence in you? where, given the choice, would you like the relationship to go, if it were a relationship. Do those 3 becoming 2 inspire a feeling of joy at that possibility of it being the 2 of you if that were the case - or does it just wash over you. Perhaps it is in reading your thread that it raises questions about not seeing the wood for the trees... in and out of all the complications, does it actually boil down to something worth your energy? I thank you for your post because it helps me to see my own situation and this is quite possibly the wrong place to post this as it highlights my own misunderstandings over the I Ching, but i will and am sure I'll soon find out if its out of place- but comes with the best intentions, Hebe x
 

Trojina

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I've just realised that none of this matters because if he doesn't care enough to clarify this, or consider that I may have wondered what is happening, or had any concern for my feelings, then I've overestimated him, the relationship, and our association in general. In which case -- who needs it? I've broken my own first rule which is -- if you have to ask it's a lost cause anyway. Seems like time to move on.

Yup....

but you could have a real straight talk with him prior to moving on to at least get some clarity on what has been happening, to know how hes seen this...all the things you need to know...that we cannot answer, and also of course to see if there actually is anything worth continuing with....

BTW I think I read somewhere here from Hilary 2.6 can be a time where in not making choices, in trying to keep all options open chaos results. Last line of 2 and it doesn't look good. So 2 is the receptive, being open, accepting all possibilities but by line 6 all possiblities is just a bit of a chaotic mess...dragons fighting and the colours clash.



BTW if ever there was a line meaning '3s a crowd' its 41.3 so I couldn't see why you'd say it didn't mean that :confused: One has to go....which one I don't know
 
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arabella

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Yup....

but you could have a real straight talk with him prior to moving on to at least get some clarity on what has been happening, to know how hes seen this...all the things you need to know...that we cannot answer, and also of course to see if there actually is anything worth continuing with....

BTW I think I read somewhere here from Hilary 2.6 can be a time where in not making choices, in trying to keep all options open chaos results. Last line of 2 and it doesn't look good. So 2 is the receptive, being open, accepting all possibilities but by line 6 all possiblities is just a bit of a chaotic mess...dragons fighting and the colours clash.



BTW if ever there was a line meaning '3s a crowd' its 41.3 so I couldn't see why you'd say it didn't mean that :confused: One has to go....which one I don't know


I agree with you on the 41.3 I'm just imagining that since the question was: "how is he going to treat me now?" -- that he's already made the choice and I'm just not informed and that, as you say, this could mean anything about our association. Maybe he really DOES take me that much for granted. And the next changing line: 41.4 would seem to say that clarity on dealing with the "three's a crowd" aspect is coming very quickly. Frankly, nothing point blank has been said and if this was a work colleague situation, maybe I'm reacting inappropriately.

I think the overall problem, however, is what Hebe is saying: "Does he inspire confidence in you?" Obviously not. And that is entirely wrong and has been the problem. How can you inspire confidence when your mind/heart are elsewhere in a grieving process? I mean, I've done the Hex 5 for a long while now and been left wondering in any number of situations. And honestly, if he doesn't outright clarify the "three's a crowd" [as Trojan is suggesting that is a legit point still and not implied to have been a decision made already as I was thinking] and if I'm not given a one to one assessment of what that encounter with him and her meant [a la, 41.4], then it's not a tenable situation.

And, come to think of it [continuing my stream of consciousness minute-by-minute Shared Reading here] maybe 41.3 and 41.4 actually happened then and there. They were still at the studio when I left -- and we all know sometimes the Yi is just that blunt. Althoughin my heart of hearts, I'd like some clarity that isn't just by default or because of the studio schedule. After two years of investment in this association, jeez, you'd think it warrants more. But my daughter living home just now assures me in her more vast and current experience: men do what they want every day of the week, with little care for anybody else's feelings and good luck to you unless you find the rare one who is more noble and considerate. I hope that's wrong, but it's looking accurate at the moment.

And your take on 2.6 Trojan, the idea of chaos resulting from faffing about is exactly what I'm feeling now. I mean, he keeps saying he's "grieving" and I'm the last one to put a judgement on that, with all I've learned about grieving lately and just having come to the conclusion that there's so much grieving I've never done and I'd better do something about that. On the other hand, how convenient to grieve your wife in the company of any number of women -- probably all of whom are getting the idea the relationship has some kind of possibility of further development.

I can't remember if it was Soooo or Gato who advocated a series of castings and then letting the overall sense come through. Anyway, I was trying that approach initially and just posting everything I cast and realised, or thought. This really IS a Shared Reading, sort of stream of consciousness and nothing censored. Then I read what Rosada said and thought, maybe not enough contemplation, maybe I was piling one assumption onto another and then slammed into the brick wall, came up mad with a sore head and said "FORGET IT!"

I'm taking on board all of this, welcoming any comments. :hug:Arabella
 
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Trojina

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I'm not sure why you don't do the one and only thing that would bring you complete clarity on this and talk to him about your feelings about him, the relationship everything.

Everything you say here why don't you say to him ?

Stream of consciousness is okay but is it really getting you anywhere in understanding the situation or are you just looking for new ways to reposition yourself in regard to it as in "shall i take this attitude or shall i take that attitude" That has its uses but it it can be overused when actually you need something to go on other than I Ching readings and shuffling your mind set. You need something more solid than that


I've nothing much else to say other than I think hanging around waiting for this guy to give you what you want is a real road to nowhere after all this time. You either need to move on from it or go and see him and say to him all and everything you say here and then see what he says and what his position is.

I think this is something that could go on and on and on and bleed you to death with all these 'perhaps' still open (2.6)


What is it stops you talking to him ...from his mouth is the only place you will get the truth...all else is fumbling around in the dark by this stage
 
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Trojina

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BTW 41.6 is a pretty platonic line IMO since its about gathering sustenance from a wide range of sources. Its not time to' gain a home' but it is time to gather friends. I don't see him being up for any settled domestic scene with a woman....I do see him making friends

Of course i say that but i don't know i can't speak for him I'm just looking at the line

Thats why you have to talk to the guy

...and he does owe you some sort of clarity on the matter becasue that frees you up to move on or not.

Maybe theres a part of you doesn't want to know the truth and wants to keep this all fuzzy a while longer. I don't blame you its a tactic we all use , and probably a good one for a while.....but when you do actually want to know the truth there is for sure only one place to find it and its not on this forum
 

rodaki

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hi arabella,

sad to hear about this . . I'm inclined to read 2.6 in a different way here, also considering everything else you have posted in the past . . for me the struggle of the line is between something created, made up, almost conjured (like a haunting figure) and factual reality. I think it comes up when the inner world (thoughts, wishes, ideas, fears) and the outer world collide.

In this particular case, I'll go out on a limb and say that what the specific person got was a conflict -even an imaginary one, or a conflict in his head- between some ideal figure of womanhood and the women he can actually encounter in his life. Perhaps what he is really looking for/at is a phantasy of a woman (a phantom of a woman?), an idea that just got stripped . . I honestly have no advice or suggestion to give you here, only thing I can say is that this seems like very unsteady ground any way you look at it . .


p.s.: just read your post, I don't have much to say on your other readings cause I think you could read any of them either way, depending on whether you are on a half-full or half-empty frame of mind . .
 

Trojina

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well if it was just a woman he worked with why would there be any conflict anyway thats what i don't get.

Surely he must meet and talk with lots of women...I couldn't understand why it was such a big deal. There was no reason to think it was a romance was there ? Why are you sad Dora...he was only talking to another woman why is that cause for sadness ?


and in the end does it actually matter what he was thinking on that day more than it matters to know whether to really move on or not
 

arabella

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hi arabella,

sad to hear about this . . I'm inclined to read 2.6 in a different way here, also considering everything else you have posted in the past . . for me the struggle of the line is between something created, made up, almost conjured (like a haunting figure) and factual reality. I think it comes up when the inner world (thoughts, wishes, ideas, fears) and the outer world collide.

In this particular case, I'll go out on a limb and say that what the specific person got was a conflict -even an imaginary one, or a conflict in his head- between some ideal figure of womanhood and the women he can actually encounter in his life. Perhaps what he is really looking for/at is a phantasy of a woman (a phantom of a woman?), an idea that just got stripped . . I honestly have no advice or suggestion to give you here, only thing I can say is that this seems like very unsteady ground any way you look at it . .


p.s.: just read your post, I don't have much to say on your other readings cause I think you could read any of them either way, depending on whether you are on a half-full or half-empty frame of mind . .

There is a lot to what you say here. In fact, he's more or less said it himself -- the loss of what he experienced as an extraordinary wife. I didn't know her, those who did found her cute and fun and her death very sad, of course.

Quickly, for Trojan who doesn't see what was so extraordinary about the occasion yesterday -- it was different. Part of it was the way the station manager behaved -- like he was "warning" me this man was there with someone else. And right away I had the feeling there was something about this "colleague" thing I wasn't aware of. I just feel, if he was comfortable all the way around with what he is doing, he would have mentioned it before, and he never has. Obviously, she's never heard of me before either.

When you focus in on a situation like this and assign so much verbiage to it, then it may sound like it's all of life and it isn't. I have so many irons in the fire professionally and in relation to my family, this isn't just "front and centre." But it's a worry in that, because of the "grief" thing, I let it drift, I avoid making decisions about it, thinking he's in some kind of recuperation and can't be rushed.

Back to what Dora is saying -- that analysis is uncanny of where he has been in these past two years, of where he got stuck, even in his own words. In fact, his daughter who apparently looks and sounds like his wife did, has been called upon to spend countless weekends at her Dad's place, cooking favorite meals and discussing his work with him -- whatever [according to him] gives him the sense that his wife is still in the house. She spent the first two years of young married life doing that for him.

It's funny that my own conflict with him is arising now -- I've only recently had the feeling that he's finally, in small ways, emerging from the place where he can't see anything except the past. And maybe yesterday was a wake-up call for him of sorts. Time to push away the fog and get real? This isn't a fantasy but a world of living beings? Because you have the sense with him, on and off during a date or dinner or evening with him, that the past is ever-present in certain ways. And that has been subsiding a bit. I've actually had conversations with him lately where his wife was never mentioned -- we just talked about how we felt ourselves.

I don't know. As said before, I've never really sat down and grieved anything or anybody. It always seemed like a luxury I couldn't afford. So I don't know what people normally do in these situations. I'm trying to be flexible and fair. But as Trojan says, I'm not interested in being bled dry either.
 
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arabella

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BTW 41.6 is a pretty platonic line IMO since its about gathering sustenance from a wide range of sources. Its not time to' gain a home' but it is time to gather friends. I don't see him being up for any settled domestic scene with a woman....I do see him making friends

Of course i say that but i don't know i can't speak for him I'm just looking at the line

Thats why you have to talk to the guy

...and he does owe you some sort of clarity on the matter becasue that frees you up to move on or not.

Maybe theres a part of you doesn't want to know the truth and wants to keep this all fuzzy a while longer. I don't blame you its a tactic we all use , and probably a good one for a while.....but when you do actually want to know the truth there is for sure only one place to find it and its not on this forum

I know this is going to sound ridiculous but he is a master of innuendo I think. When I think of our conversations the one who shows ALL their cards is generally me. And invitations from him are always "friendly" but inspecific. And the thought that he is just Hex 45 gathering friends may be accurate. But then there are the places here and there where he exceeds that definition. In the long run T., if I "cornered" him with my feelings and wanting to know something specific I just have the awful feeling he could pretend ignorance of everything. And I'd be standing there looking a fool. MAYBE I underestimate, maybe he's more sincere than that. But the longer this goes on, the more I think this IS a hex 45, conveniently treated like a Hex 44 on certain days of the week.

My eldest daughter chimed in on the conversation just now and said that her opinion -- minus any Yi consultation -- is that he's so unstable in his emotional position he has nothing to offer on a consistent basis. Erstwhile friendship is all there is unless he gets himself onto his two feet. She knew him before his wife' death and says he has seemed to walk in circles and has lost his personality, that she only sees bits of his "self" -- as she knew him before -- blipping through here and there. She ignores him over the past year, she says, because she finds him endlessly indecisive, even in an average conversation, that she can't follow what he is saying or what he really means, and that he has become monotonous and boring.

I see more to him than that, obviously, and we have spent a lot of time together that makes me appreciate other things about him. But as Dora says -- it's pretty unstable.

It's not worthwhile having a relationship with the Yi Ching instead of the person in question. But I don't know if holding him up to the light just now and demanding an explanation is going to produce anything helpful either.
 
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Trojina

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I know this is going to sound ridiculous but he is a master of innuendo I think. When I think of our conversations the one who shows ALL their cards is generally me. And invitations from him are always "friendly" but inspecific. And the thought that he is just Hex 45 gathering friends may be accurate. But then there are the places here and there where he exceeds that definition. In the long run T., if I "cornered" him with my feelings and wanting to know something specific I just have the awful feeling he could pretend ignorance of everything. And I'd be standing there looking a fool. MAYBE I underestimate, maybe he's more sincere than that. But the longer this goes on, the more I think this IS a hex 45, conveniently treated like a Hex 44 on certain days of the week.

Right...so there you have it. You won't ask him because you think he'll deny that there is any relationship there of the kind you think. Surely you may as well let it go then. If a man won't even admit hes having a relationship with you is there any point in your harbouring hopes of having one ? To ask for a talk with someone who you feel deeply for and who has also given you indication they have feelings for you is not 'cornering'...its being honest and open. Theres no relationship based on innuendo...not of this duration anyway. If something was going to happen it would have by now IMO....so why are you still waitng.

Actually I do get why a woman might hold on, following innuendo and so on...I really do...but not for this long when there is no sign of any development on from innuendo

My eldest daughter chimed in on the conversation just now and said that her opinion -- minus any Yi consultation -- is that he's so unstable in his emotional position he has nothing to offer on a consistent basis. Erstwhile friendship is all there is unless he gets himself onto his two feet. She knew him before his wife' death and says he has seemed to walk in circles and has lost his personality, that she only sees bits of his "self" -- as she knew him before -- blipping through here and there. She ignores him over the past year, she says, because she finds him endlessly indecisive, even in an average conversation, that she can't follow what he is saying or what he really means, and that he has become monotonous and boring.

I see more to him than that, obviously, and we have spent a lot of time together that makes me appreciate other things about him. But as Dora says -- it's pretty unstable.

It's not worthwhile having a relationship with the Yi Ching instead of the person in question. But I don't know if holding him up to the light just now and demanding an explanation is going to produce anything helpful either.

So you are dismissing open frank communication with him, intimate communication with him, it doesn't have to look like an interrogation, because you are afraid of what he'll say., because deep down you know he isn't really that much into this

I don't know what more there can be to ask......I think you do already know the answers...

One thing though, you said here and elsewhere you didn't really 'get' people grieving, had no time for it yourself...and it was suggested by others that perhaps your impatience with others grief was due to having to suppress you own, you felt it a threat to you.

You said you felt grief something of a luxury, wasting time in all those emotions but in a sense you are doing the same with this guy only in a different way. Its not actual grief but its hankering after something which is not available which IMO is virtually tantamount to grief. Maybe this longing that keeps you hanging on is grief in another guise because you need to let it go and can't

I will be quiet now....as my opinion is pretty certain you need to let this go and I can see the answers easily telling you to decrease involvement with this (ie 41) but as Dora said the answers could be interpreted another way if one was of a different opinion...
 
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arabella

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I've mostly had the opinion from others to the effect that -- you can't expect him to be upfront and ready for something particular -- after all -- he's grieving. So I've given him loads of rope with which to hang himself. I don't avoid confronting him because i fear the answer -- in itself. I think he can justify things a million ways -- depending on his mood that day -- which some days is excellent and he may say lots of things that would be comforting. BUT then there's the chance of something like yesterday where he's on a page all alone and I don't see where he's going. And it's not like I think he'd automatically deny anything. It's more like he'd talk in circles as my daughter has said -- and I would have put myself out on a limb and be none the wiser for it but feel like I've exposed everything of myself.

I think I've been dealing with him like he's emotionally disabled or something. Because "grief" is these days such a subject of study and deep sympathy, sort of an Art form in the literature. Whereas, my own experience of being bereft or without has been that there's still always somebody demanding something else, creating the utter lack of opportunity to stop and feel what I feel because there are kids to be raised, bills to be paid, older parents to be taken care of. So I'm admitting -- I've never been in his spot. I never stopped to think about feeling bad. There wasn't time to feel bad -- if I stopped to do that I'd potentially create a lot more to feel bad about.

As said about fifty paragraphs ago -- for my own part, it's about time to throw in the towel because nothing is getting any clearer. Infact, this may be worse than it's ever been. In a way I'm almost sorry for the brilliant moments with this guy because in between those moments are so many question marks.

I think Dora's call on 2.6 becoming 23 is really intriguing. The first casting I did. I think right there the Yi was telling me -- he's still at the same place and maybe only barely emerging from the fog. Which means, as you say Trojan -- women friends are all the same thing to him -- just someone not his wife.

Surely I can have more fun than that. :hug: Arabella
 

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OK, I guess it's part of the pact to say what happened next, especially when posting these crazy relationship readings. Today, just as I'd decided to pack it in and go my own way, my friend here invited me out again. Go figure. He and lady friend drove together to the station and that appears to be about it. What was surmised and transmitted to me by the station manager is apparently HIS fantasy and I took it as truth -- which I guess I shouldn't have done, but he seemed so sure as he wiggled his eyebrows at me, and made it a point to say that my friend had arrived there "with another lady," wink, wink.

I've just made my mind up to this: we are friends and until further notice -- and there may never be further notice -- that is simply good enough. Everybody needs friends. Besides anything else at this stage of life, unless it's quite simple and ultimately clear, is utterly exhausting.

And so it goes. You are all invited to the wedding. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. We are friends.
 

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Perhaps for instructive purposes, worth looking back through the castings and seeing what could have clued me in that this wasn't so drastic and that the presentation of "facts" of the matter by the station manager was way overboard and set me spinning for probably no reason. If I've learned anything it's to keep any opinion of my own in reserve and ignore such people who try to throw the cat in amongst the pigeons.
 

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In view of what has happened now, and for the archives -- I think that my friend was in a bit of a "squeeze play" and not entirely comfortable with the circumstances. And I believe that 2.6 becoming 23 meant that he was feeling there was one too many women in the situation -- or an overabundance of women anyway.

I assume he will try to prevent this situation in the future as I thought he didn't like what happened and now that seems to be corroborated.
 

Trojina

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Does it really make much difference about that situation when overall the situation between the 2 of you is the same. He doesn't admit he has a relationship with you and you have no claim on him really...which means at any point if he hangs around with another woman you will be in the same position


What i see now is you rebuilding a picture of him thats palatable

I'm not being a bitch


I'm just saying theres no use going back in to all that stuff about whats in his head

I'll quote the post where I think you had clarity below


Right now I feel you are edging away from clarity by fixating on the episode with the other woman...but as I say nothings changed


You may not have finished with him but I have..

phew.....


its quite a relief
 

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I've just realised that none of this matters because if he doesn't care enough to clarify this, or consider that I may have wondered what is happening, or had any concern for my feelings, then I've overestimated him, the relationship, and our association in general. In which case -- who needs it? I've broken my own first rule which is -- if you have to ask it's a lost cause anyway. Seems like time to move on.

This is where you had some clarity IMO


I wish you didn't get de clarified

but its your life
 

Trojina

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In view of what has happened now, and for the archives -- I think that my friend was in a bit of a "squeeze play" and not entirely comfortable with the circumstances. And I believe that 2.6 becoming 23 meant that he was feeling there was one too many women in the situation -- or an overabundance of women anyway.

I assume he will try to prevent this situation in the future as I thought he didn't like what happened and now that seems to be corroborated.

Okay...last word...why are you assuming this....this is a story you told yourself via 2.6, he hasn't told you this that why i think you are heading back to hanging on to a relationship that won't go anywhere you really want it to

You can't say "I think this meant he felt this" when you actually don't know what he felt....thats just you supplying your own jigsaw pieces, creating appropriate feelings you'd like him to have......this is a way to future suffering becasue it will surely hit a brick wall again when the feelings you ascribed to him are not bourne out by him.



over and out for good on this :bows:
 

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First, I think his invitation was in an effort to clarify what happened.

Second this is the original statement of what I asked that resulted in 2.6 becoming 23:
Quote: I asked the Yi what the man of the hour took from this coincidental encounter and having to introduce the two of us? Therefore, I see 2.6 in this way because it came in answer to this question.

From our conversation yesterday I feel very sure that if "three's a crowd" I'm not causing the crowded situation. And after casting a number of times about this relationship as my emotions rollercoaster around, I feel that we are both circling the situation and trying to get a grip on it -- because neither one of us is sure what it should be.
 
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I also think my overall attitude has altered with time and I don't see it as so important how it turns out as that I'm learning a lot by going through this. And there is more to learn I am sure. I don't think the outcome is so important as getting something out of the journey. And I am. Both in relation to my life and in relation to the Yi. It's not meant to bother or frustrate anybody else. It's meant as a way to figure out what I'm still missing and find it.
 

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Continuing update, as promised. Tonight is dinner and the opera; the first anybody has ever made that kind of effort on my behalf in well -- forever. I'll let you know!
 

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THAT was a brilliant evening. It could be the first of many or the last ever and it doesn't matter. Just brilliant.
 

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